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To be fair, ReimuB at least has a helpful passive, and her bomb actually becomes decently strong on Hard/Lunatic

As for ReimuC, while the bomb is fantastic, I still think the shot type itself is great, too
It could do with slightly better damage output, but then again, literally every shot type other than ReimuA has that issue

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On 7/16/2017 at 9:58 AM, Scarlet said:

Yeah, I share the sentiment

Marisa A would probably be viable outside of NMNB runs if she simply gained more than the usual lol2 Power after dying
Marisa B would probably be viable if her shots did anything resembling damage outside of hitting completely arbitrary sweet spots on the most impractical angles in existence
Marisa C would definitely be viable if her rockets actually did decent damage

MarisaA is all about those pointblank bombs. If you know what you're doing, she can bombskip patterns with ease. She's the best shot for NM for a reason.

MarisaB's utility comes purely from her option switching. Fire Sign's damage is not very good, yes, but she has good opportunities to make use of her other options in boss fights and can do significantly more damage with them (even moreso in conjunction with her bomb). Earth Sign on Orin, for example, is a beautiful thing.

MarisaC is a very bad shot, but at least she has a good niche in the Extra. Second best shot for standard clears by far.

On 7/16/2017 at 5:52 PM, Glaceon Sage said:

I like using Suika more than Yukari when I play SA.

Am I weird?

I main SA ReimuB because I find her comfy.

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6 hours ago, ( 'ω') ZM ('ω' ) said:

MarisaA is all about those pointblank bombs. If you know what you're doing, she can bombskip patterns with ease. She's the best shot for NM for a reason.

Going pointblank with bombs is not only very dangerous in most circumstances, it also means that you need to have planned that bomb in advance. If you use MarisaA's bomb reactively like people usually do, it deals virtually no damage whatsoever, clears barely any bullets and grants only very few invincibility frames.

There's also the problem that while MarisaA gains a bit more power from small [P] (0.08 instead of 0.05), the same doesn't apply to big [P]s. If you ever dip down to <4 Power, you'll have a hard time recovering, especially during boss fights. Unlike other shot types, not even dying grants you any reasonable amount of power, as MarisaA at 2 or 3 Power is simply pathetic.

I guess she's a bit better in Extra where you can reasonably expect each death to put you on your last life, thus granting you a Full Power item everytime you die, but like I said before, she's simply not viable for a normal player. She only becomes "viable" if you're already good enough at the game to 1cc it in your sleep. Remember that that doesn't apply to everyone here, nor even to the majority of Touhou players in general.

6 hours ago, ( 'ω') ZM ('ω' ) said:

MarisaB's utility comes purely from her option switching. Fire Sign's damage is not very good, yes, but she has good opportunities to make use of her other options in boss fights and can do significantly more damage with them (even moreso in conjunction with her bomb). Earth Sign on Orin, for example, is a beautiful thing.

Yeah. Like I said, her utility lies in hitting arbitrary sweet spots in really awkward angles. That's, uh... great?
And to do anything resembling actual damage with MarisaB's bomb, you have to pop it right on top of your target's face, just like MarisaA's.
Besides, if I want to hit a boss (or any other enemy) from really awkward angles, I could just pick ReimuC instead and be much better off in every way. Reimu even has a smaller hitbox (which admittedly is actually annoying in Stage 3 and 4 if you're trying to graze the lasers, but is a boon if you're just trying to survive).

6 hours ago, ( 'ω') ZM ('ω' ) said:

MarisaC is a very bad shot, but at least she has a good niche in the Extra. Second best shot for standard clears by far.

I agree, MarisaC is pretty nice for Extra. Being able to shield yourself without triggering Koishi's invincibility takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders.

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3 hours ago, Scarlet said:

Going pointblank with bombs is not only very dangerous in most circumstances, it also means that you need to have planned that bomb in advance. If you use MarisaA's bomb reactively like people usually do, it deals virtually no damage whatsoever, clears barely any bullets and grants only very few invincibility frames.

There's also the problem that while MarisaA gains a bit more power from small [P] (0.08 instead of 0.05), the same doesn't apply to big [P]s. If you ever dip down to <4 Power, you'll have a hard time recovering, especially during boss fights. Unlike other shot types, not even dying grants you any reasonable amount of power, as MarisaA at 2 or 3 Power is simply pathetic.

I guess she's a bit better in Extra where you can reasonably expect each death to put you on your last life, thus granting you a Full Power item everytime you die, but like I said before, she's simply not viable for a normal player. She only becomes "viable" if you're already good enough at the game to 1cc it in your sleep. Remember that that doesn't apply to everyone here, nor even to the majority of Touhou players in general.

Yeah. Like I said, her utility lies in hitting arbitrary sweet spots in really awkward angles. That's, uh... great?
And to do anything resembling actual damage with MarisaB's bomb, you have to pop it right on top of your target's face, just like MarisaA's.
Besides, if I want to hit a boss (or any other enemy) from really awkward angles, I could just pick ReimuC instead and be much better off in every way. Reimu even has a smaller hitbox (which admittedly is actually annoying in Stage 3 and 4 if you're trying to graze the lasers, but is a boon if you're just trying to survive).

It's true that MarisaA and MarisaB require preemptive bombing to get the full extent of their power, but what's the problem with that? Plan most of your bombs and you should have a comfier time going for a clear instead of worrying about dodging and capturing everything, which would just put more pressure on a player than needed. Remember: the goal is to 1cc. MarisaA and MarisaB aren't even that difficult to get into. I used the latter for my first SA Normal 1cc a long time ago and she really wasn't that tough to get into well.

2 hours ago, shezzy said:

I honestly cant think of a game where marisa is better than reimu, seriously

maybe if you compare individual shots, but the best shot type has never come close to being marisa, unless you count glitch in MoF

kind of a frustrating thing with the series after you've played it a lot and gotten bored with stomping everything as reimu or sakuya tbh

From a scoring standpoint Marisa is usually superior to Reimu for obvious reasons (EoSD (minus Extra), PCB (though MarisaA has the highest potential, ReimuB is simply more suitable for use), and SA (only in Lunatic and Extra) are the only exceptions). 

But since we're talking survival, Marisa does not really have any boons over Reimu unless you're DDC MarisaB (assuming first clears obviously). MoF MarisaC is a very good option for first clears, as well, and TD Marisa has a stronger trance to make use of. I've actually seen TD Marisa get used more than TD Reimu these days for first clears.

Edited by ( 'ω') ZM ('ω' )
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3 hours ago, shezzy said:

I honestly cant think of a game where marisa is better than reimu, seriously

maybe if you compare individual shots, but the best shot type has never come close to being marisa, unless you count glitch in MoF

kind of a frustrating thing with the series after you've played it a lot and gotten bored with stomping everything as reimu or sakuya tbh

I'd argue she's better than Reimu in PCB (especially MarisaA), although probably still worse than Sakuya. Only having two bombs per life seems like a huge detriment at first, but is compensated for by her insanely fast Cherry gain (which provides a lot of free barriers) and extremely high firepower in general.
While I haven't played those two as much, I also found Marisa a lot more effective than Reimu in both LLS and MS, where Reimu's "I have homing shots!" means very little when literally every shot type, including Marisa's, has insanely massive spread anyway.

59 minutes ago, ( 'ω') ZM ('ω' ) said:

It's true that MarisaA and MarisaB require preemptive bombing to get the full extent of their power, but what's the problem with that? Plan most of your bombs and you should have a comfier time going for a clear instead of worrying about dodging and capturing everything, which would just put more pressure on a player than needed.

There's a lot of problems with that, the most obvious one being that unless you plan all of your bombs and deaths in advance, you can't guarantee you'll actually have enough power available to bomb with at any given moment, especially if you can't guarantee that you consistently manage to pick up all Power items. Getting hit by something unexpected can also force an unplanned deathbomb (or death), throwing off your planning even more.
And then there's the problem that you may very well find you simply don't have enough bombs to work with to bomb everything you might need bombed, especially since any given pattern usually requires at least two bombs to fully skip, sometimes even three (Hell And Heaven Meltdown says hi). And that's assuming you have no trouble with the stages themselves.
There's nothing wrong with planned bombs for a spellcard you're certain you can't capture - I've given that advice myself in the past. But to do that for a full run once again requires that you already be very familiar with the game, and by extension pretty good. You can't really expect that from someone who has trouble 1ccing the game in the first place, especially when the bombs of the shot type you're using are a royal pain in the ass to actually set up. Having to practically be on top of a target that might move at any moment in a game where contact damage instantly kills you is not exactly very encouraging, especially since you can easily just waste your bomb altogether by bombing too early, before the boss armor wears off. Or you bomb too late and simply get shot in the face.

1 hour ago, ( 'ω') ZM ('ω' ) said:

MarisaA and MarisaB aren't even that difficult to get into. I used the latter for my first SA Normal 1cc a long time ago and she really wasn't that tough to get into well.

You really need to stop measuring these things by your own standards. You're on a completely different level at this point, and frankly, it's actually pretty discouraging to constantly hear you go on about how easy everything supposedly is when that's simply not true for the vast majority of players. We don't exactly have a lot of NMNB Lunatic players here.

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I mean, my intentions aren't to discourage anyone, since I want to do anything but that. I'm just trying to explain the benefits and positives of things so people can potentially ease into them.

And I never said that anything was particularly 'easy', I just said that the shots aren't very difficult to get into. Something like ReimuC's shot is more difficult to adjust to than either Marisa A and B, she only has superior clearing tendencies due to smallbox and a more suitable bomb for damage.

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10 hours ago, shezzy said:

god satori's second and third spellcard on reimua are bullshit

Huh, how so? The last one is definitely tough if you don't abuse the safespot, but the one prior to that is just basic horizontal streaming, even on Lunatic. Just stay away from the left and right edges of the screen and the lasers might as well not be there.

11 hours ago, shezzy said:

for stage 5 ill probably just time orin's midboss out, and from then on the only thing in that fight that looks absolutely uncapturable is the second to last spellcard

Honestly, if you have the Power to spare, I'd just bomb Cat's Walk to oblivion, personally. Screw that card.

As for Needle Mountain, that one definitely used to give me trouble, but it becomes much more managable once you realize that the flame circles are aimed (one directly at you, all others relative to it). Simply move a set distance each time Rin summons a new set and you can pretty much just ignore them.

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Touhou sorter is a thing that exists that I haven't done in a while

Spoiler

1. Toyosatomimi no Miko
2. Kanako Yasaka
3. Ran Yakumo
4. Fujiwara no Mokou
5. Mononobe no Futo
6. Sanae Kochiya
7. Kaguya Houraisan
8. Kosuzu Motoori
9. Hata no Kokoro
10. Wakasagihime
11. Lunasa Prismriver
12. Suwako Moriya
13. Raiko Horikawa
14. Shou Toramaru
15. Nue Houjuu
16. Sumireko Usami
17. Shinmyoumaru Sukuna
18. Seiga Kaku
19. Youmu Konpaku
20. Junko
21. Eiki Shiki, Yamaxanadu
22. Yatsuhashi Tsukumo
23. Koishi Komeiji
24. Reimu Hakurei
25. Marisa Kirisame
26. Fortune Teller
27. Rinnosuke Morichika
28. Soga no Tojiko
29. Sagume Kishin
30. Doremy Sweet
31. Kotohime
32. Alice Margatroid
33. Yuyuko Saigyouji
34. Tenshi Hinanawi
35. Chen
36. Kyouko Kasodani
37. Satori Komeiji
38. Kogasa Tatara
39. Minamitsu Murasa
40. Byakuren Hijiri
41. Shizuha Aki
42. Nitori Kawashiro
43. Minoriko Aki
44. Yamame Kurodani
45. Eirin Yagokoro
46. Keine Kamishirasawa
47. Aya Shameimaru
48. Reisen Udongein Inaba
49. Sariel
50. Benben Tsukumo
51. Konngara
52. Yukari Yakumo
53. Utsuho Reiuji (Okuu)
54. Kisume
55. Yuugi Hoshiguma
56. Flandre Scarlet
57. Watatsuki no Toyohime
58. Reisen (Manga)
59. Kasen Ibaraki
60. Iku Nagae
61. Wriggle Nightbug
62. Kana Anaberal
63. Orange
64. Yumeko
65. Hieda no Akyuu
66. Yuki
67. Seiran
68. Gengetsu
69. Momiji Inubashiri
70. Letty Whiterock
71. Merlin Prismriver
72. Ringo
73. Yumemi Okazaki
74. Chiyuri Kitashirakawa
75. Komachi Onozuka
76. Sekibanki
77. Mugetsu
78. Mamizou Futatsuiwa
79. Yoshika Miyako
80. Rin Kaenbyou (Orin)
81. Hina Kagiyama
82. Kurumi
83. Patchouli Knowledge
84. Ichirin Kumoi
85. Hatate Himekaidou
86. Hecatia Lapislazuli
87. Shinki
88. Kagerou Imaizumi
89. Unzan
90. Elis
91. Mai
92. Meira
93. Hong Meiling
94. Elly
95. Tewi Inaba
96. Maribel Hearn
97. Renko Usami
98. Watatsuki no Yorihime
99. Star Sapphire
100. Luna Child
101. Sunny Milk
102. Lyrica Prismriver
103. Mystia Lorelei
104. Suika Ibuki
105. Lily White
106. Medicine Melancholy
107. Yuuka Kazami
108. Rika
109. Tokiko
110. Nazrin
111. Shingyoku (Female)
112. Rikako Asakura
113. Shingyoku (Male)
114. Koakuma
115. Rumia
116. Clownpiece
117. Remilia Scarlet
118. Daiyousei
119. Kikuri
120. Genji
121. Sara
122. Louise
123. Ruukoto
124. Ellen
125. Sakuya Izayoi
126. Evil Eye Sigma
127. Great Catfish
128. YuugenMagan
129. Mimi-chan
130. Hisoutensoku
131. Mima
132. Parsee Mizuhashi
133. Seija Kijin
134. Cirno

 

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Oh, we're doing Touhousorter again? Well, I suppose it's been almost exactly a year since I did my last list, so I might as well join in~

Spoiler

6itq9z.jpg

EDIT: Here's a direct link to the image, as the forums software refuses to properly display it...
Touhousorter Result

7 hours ago, SpearOfLies said:

*rolls* Hi, nice to meet you! I'm ByakurenHater \o/

That's not what your username says. :V

Edited by Scarlet
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1 hour ago, Scarlet said:

That's not what your username says. :V

But this what my korokoro said to me :V

 

I played more fangame than official one.

I played mostly touhou 6 ESD normal(mostly Marisa cause Reimu make my mind extreme lazy so I die more often) and touhou 13 TD normal (mostly Youmu cause is so much fun).

 

Fangame I enjoy play rpg type like Touhou labyrinth.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Today I faced stage 5's midboss in IN for the very first time despite having played this game for more than a year for real.
Maybe I'm doing best without practice.
And I could have been much further if I hadn't lost so many unnecessary lives against Marisa.
She's my #1 foe for more than two years already.


Edit: I finally faced Markyjoe ......... aka Reisen

Edited by Reimu Hakurei
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