Is variety of status and debuffs the future of FE?

[Espinosa]

I really welcomed the additions of tactical elements that were excluded in Awakening, reducing the tactical aspect and value of that game, as they were re-introduced in Fates yet again. The new uses for status staves seem interesting and I'm still not sure what to think about the debuffs from skills and chosen equipment. Not sure if these change the game in a welcome way at all right now.

What I'm thinking, however, is that these features have not been sufficiently represented in Fire Emblem before and it would be a peculiar experience if they had major usage in this title and the ones to come. Since debuffs are useless when you could just kill the target outright, perhaps the ORKO requirements in the games to come will be much tougher to meet, or even impossible, necessitating the player to invest into a multitude of support units with debuff and staff access. This is certainly far from unprecedented in other RPG titles, and while such a direction would be totally new for FE, it could be worth taking.

What does everyone think?

Edited September 27, 2015 by eclipse
eclipse sucks at reading

[AstralWave]

Yeah I think this a welcoming addition to the series it provides alot of strategy plus makes us choose our weapons more carefully.

[NinjaMonkey]

I really, really hope it's a one-time thing.

[Leif]

Call me a traditionalist, but I want my Thracia 776 status staves back. I'm happy they introduced new staves like the Freeze and Draw Staff, as well as bringing a Silence staff back, but I'd love to have the Berserk Staff back. It was so useful sending enemies after each other when I played FE5.

I love how weapons have no durability and I like weapon effects. I just hope they find more creative ways to bring disadvantages to weapons.

[Jedi]

We'll certainly see if the concept sticks, but that will be quite the amount of time to wait.

[Dark Sage]

I think Eclipse should've been a tome, like it's FE7 version, but significantly buff the hit rate to make it worth using. Also it shouldn't halve your max hp imo but eh.

Freeze and Draw were great additions but I think they could've used some of the older statuses too, like Sleep and Berserk. Is the restore staff in this game? Because I don't see it listed on the site. If those statuses are reintroduced, you'd need the staff.

Buffs/debuffs are ok, but I think the implementation could use improvement. Skills like Prescience and Flowing Strike are great implementations but I think the numbers from stuff like the Seals or Diamond Blow are a little too high and the seals shouldn't activate if the user misses their attack imo. I prefer not to have it on most weapons and instead use weight and constitition but that's just me.

[Ownagepuffs]

I love it. Seals and debuffs are good at stuffing one man armies, which makes facerolling more difficult.

[eclipse]

If you're going to talk about stuff exclusive to Fates, please make sure to mark the topic appropriately.

[Leif]

I love it. Seals and debuffs are good at stuffing one man armies, which makes facerolling more difficult.

This. I found that when I played Thracia, having a magic user with max Magic, skill, speed, and luck, like Asvel or Linonan, I could solo pretty much any group of incoming enemies.

Fates promotes cooperation, which is what Fire Emblem is about in the end.

[Jedi]

Its cool that it encourages more cooperation, I feel that FE12 Lunatic was one of the only games/modes that properly did that to this point, there are select other ones I could name, but thats the stand out before now imo.

[eclipse]

Wait, I'm an idiot. FSR I thought this was on General.

Lemme fix that.

[nyainou]

Reading it on SF, Im finding all the 'new' stuff hard to comprehend. So for now, I hope maybe they simplify it a liiiittle bit if they keep going for it.
Then again, I've always had trouble with numbers. Maybe Ill understand it when I actually play the game. I certainly don't think its a bad idea and I agree that its 'forcing' cooperation. That's really neat. Plus the personal skills give each character their own use and in a way is their own little bit of character development. I like that a lot, too.

[Shrouded In Myth]

I like status effects but not really buffs and debuffs because I don't want Fire Emblem to become more of "my numbers are better than your numbers" game.

I think buffs should be like the Tides from FE10 because they require good positioning to properly utilize.

As for debuffs, I don't know, I feel like it's going to be like Pokemon where buffing is much better than debuffing.

Anyways for status effects there has to be more ways to deal with them rather than just the Restore Staff.

[NekoKnight]

I think buffs/debuffs and status effects are in a pretty good place right now. Hidden weapons and debuffing skills enhance strategies by allowing units to support even if they aren't the best combat units themselves. It encourages cooperation, as others have mentioned. Things I'd change would be be to add back sleep/berserk/poison statuses and to turn rallies into passive auras.

[Ryo]

I think debuffs from hidden weapons are usually more dangerous when used by the enemy, because 1) they're specifically designed to screw you; 2) the player's debuffer units themselves can still ORKO their targets on their own given appropriate training and/or support bonus (unless the enemies' particularly tanky, but then the debuffs don't really matter); 3) you don't need these debuffs to win the game because not everyone uses them. Though I admit that it can be useful on some tight situations.

The thing that I find more useful/dangerous for both parties is skill like Snake Venom/Deadly Breath, since you always deal/receive damage and can potentially reduce the target's HP to 1.

[Leif]

I think debuffs from hidden weapons are usually more dangerous when used by the enemy, because 1) they're specifically designed to screw you; 2) the player's debuffer units themselves can still ORKO their targets on their own given appropriate training and/or support bonus (unless the enemies' particularly tanky, but then the debuffs don't really matter); 3) you don't need these debuffs to win the game because not everyone uses them. Though I admit that it can be useful on some tight situations.

The thing that I find more useful/dangerous for both parties is skill like Snake Venom/Deadly Breath, since you always deal/receive damage and can potentially reduce the target's HP to 1.

Yes, these skills will become essential for LTC/Speedruns of the game. I can't wait to see the creativeness of speed runners when the game comes out. To me, Snake Venom/Deadly Breath/Four Fangs will be essential to taking down tanky units quickly.

[arvilino]

I think they're pretty great. Between debuffs, Snake Venom and the passive auras(Battle Command, Demoiselle, Elise, Camilla, Sakura and Hinoka's personal sklls) it makes it so that more units are useful without having to battle gods or only used for small chip damage or healing. As mentioned by others the idea that in situations where a class like Ninja could deal 0 damage with an attack and can still take 20% HP and reduce DEF/RES/[sTAT] of the unit they attacked is something that seriously adds to the depth on both sides of the playing field.

[nocturnal YL]

I like the debuff mechanic. In the hands of enemies, this makes them a worse threat and it really makes players think, strategy-wise.

Shichinan Sokumetsu is just unfair, though. Halving HP for the rest of the chapter makes planning unnecessarily hard.

[CocoaGalaxy]

Rescue staves are rescue really.....

Misfortune and Sin, I think they tried to balance it out by giving it a poor hit rate, but I'm not sure if the staff hit rate formula, so I can't see if it works in practice

(It seems like status staffs hit fairly often, at least)

I still have no idea how Negative Chain works, or some of the other debuff mechanics

Edited September 29, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy

[Ownagepuffs]

Misfortune and Sin being permanent for the map and there being no restore staff is so fucking stupid arghh. Nohr late game just loves to spam it everywhere too.

Negative chain pretty much let's Ninja debuffs stack since they don't normally. So if a ninja hits you with a -4 defense Shuriken then another Ninja with Neg chain hits you with a -4 defense Shuriken, you lose 8 defense. Obviously Nohr is an ass and loves this gimmick to death.

In case you couldn't tell from this post, Nohr late game is very dumb.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[astrophys]

Does Negative Chain only show up in Lunatic?

[Great Geargia Gateway]

I like status and Buff/defuff's but I feel they just made it really bad and complicated when it just shouldn't be.
What I'm trying to say is that Skills and Hidden Weapons just shouldn't be doing, what the items they already have already, should be doing. I feel that the staffs need more use again so staffs need Status effects again, like a stronger poison and a nerfed berserk, and that can be bought so you're never in fear of losing it and never getting it back ever.

I think Tomes need to be in charge of Buffs/Debuffs. A short powered but high range Dark Tome that can debuff a 3 spare radius for a turn. Remaking/Returning Light Tomes could supply Buffs for a turn or two. I think it would be wise to make Light and Dark tomes as tool box items, while Anima just has a Magic Triangle inside itself.

[CocoaGalaxy]

Does Negative Chain only show up in Lunatic?

I haven't checked normal, but it does show up in hard

Of course...it depends on which route you're talking about.......

In the general topic itself, I don't find it very broken...then again the person I watched had "obscene" things like 30 Spd Level 20 Xander, among other things, so maybe I've been desensitized to things.

I will say that having 3 Range Kunais attack you behind walls (when you have no 3 range weapons of your own) is a pretty...unfair move, at times

I can't really comment on Misfortune and Sin without the status staff hit rate formula though

Edited September 30, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy

[Ownagepuffs]

Does Negative Chain only show up in Lunatic?

Haven't checked otherwise. Edited September 30, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[Spilled Beans]

I know I'd probably sound like a fool saying this, but honestly, I hope not. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, and they certainly do add more strategic depth, but to be completely honest, I would've preferred it if FE14 turned down the amount of enemies with those stalves, since beating the RNG is half the game already.

Now, I'm not saying to remove half of the enemies in the game, again I welcome the whole thing with open arms, especially the whole stat debuff thing. I just have an issue with the stalves. And even though Misfortune and Sin has only 3 uses, it's more than frustrating having my units have their max HP halved for the whole duration of the chapter/skirmish/whatever just because the healer was out of reach. (And yes, that has happened.)