Clones in future SSB games

[DSYS]

Should any be given their own moveset, remain clones, be removed, and so on? Imo:

Ganondorf needs to get his own moveset ASAP. I don't care if it's been three games of him being a clone, he's got abilities of his own, so just give him his own moveset already.

Luigi: Thanks to the Luigi's Mansion and Mario & Luigi games, Luigi's got more potential for an individual moveset, so I don't see why he'd still need to play similarly to Mario.

Alternate versions of characters like Dr Mario and Toon Link: Unless they get their own moves, they should be alts. Dr Mario could still throw pills instead of fireballs.

Falco: The little differences from Fox were nice, but there's little reason he couldn't be an alt for Fox with his own taunts, instead.

Wolf: Give him some moves of his own.

Roy and Lucina: Same as the alternate versions such as Dr Mario and Toon Link. Unique movesets, or just make them alts for Marth.

[kingddd]

Wolf's B specials are the only similiar variant from Fox and Falco but even they function a lot more different and many use different animations. Majority of his A attacks and animations are not even similar. He is already not a clone at this point.

It has already been established that Lucina and Dr. Mario was an alt for Marth and Mario but they decided they wanted some small gameplay variants which is why they split her off from the costume. For future releases, it would be nice if they did make her have her signature fighting pose. Same thing with Dr. Mario. It can also be confusing design wise to some players that some costumes have gameplay variants and some do not. Like regular wario having the same moveset but dr. Mario doesn't in the same selection. Sure Project M does this but most of the playerbase there were already hardcore Smash Bros fans so they are aware of the situation.

Luigi's current moveset already differentiates him enough from Mario that we really don't want a complete revamp at this point. You also have to remember he's a brother so it at least makes sense that he wants to follow his older brother's footsteps a bit.

A lot of Roy's movesets have already been revamped significantly. It's only his specials that are similar but even those have been changed significantly so no, I don't see him being an alt anytime soon at this point.

[Florete]

Falco also plays way different from Fox.

I don't get this idea that "they should just be an alt." What difference does it make to us? If there's a necessary difference in how they play, make them separate. Even Doc's pills aren't exactly the same as Mario's fireballs.

[Knight]

I honestly don't think any of them are in need of alterations, except for Dark Pit and Lucina, since those characters have so little to distinguish themselves and give little reason to use them over the originals. The only other one who deserves his own moveset is Ganondorf, but his current one is too hilarious to give up, so if they decide to do it, they should give the old one to Black Shadow from F-Zero. I'd argue that Ganon, Luigi, Wolf aren't even clones though, Toon Link can't be an alt because he's short, and anyone who plays Fox and Falco knows there are distinct differences in playstyle.

[Icemario]

imo the only character who desperately needs a more unique moveset is Lucina (and kinda Dark Pit I guess).

Her main thing is being the middlepoint between Roy and Marth in concept, having no sweetspots and average damage/knockback, yet she's almost identical to Marth moveset-wise, and even has a shorter sword which doesn't help make her favourable to use over him. They really should give her some original moves.

And some of Dark Pit's moves at least change the dynamics of a few match-ups for him, but I'd also like to see further differences between him and Pit.

[Jedi]

Ganondorf, Luigi, Falco, Wolf and Roy aren't clones

[DeadGame]

Listen, there is nothing wrong about clone characters, unless they're outclassed by the original, in which case they need balancing (looking at Dr. Mario).

Aside from that, Falco, Wolf and Roy and Toon Link aren't clone characters. They're "semi-clones" at best.

Although they share a couple of similar looking moves with other characters, they play very different and have their own identity.

Lastly, about Luigi.. I don't even know what to say.

Did you honestly just say his playstyle is similar to Mario's? This is the year 2015, not 2001. : )

[Jedi]

Yeah Luigi hasn't been a clone since you know, he got changed in Melee lol.

There is a reason we used to call decloning. "Luigification"

Edited September 27, 2015 by Jedi

[Alex95]

As long as we have more characters to play as, I don't care how many clones are in the game. I'm just glad that character made the cut.

...That's how I view it anyway.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Power Master

[MCProductions]

^THIS, I can't say enough that if the only reason a character won't make the roster is that they would be a clone, then put them in the roster as a clone.

As for decloneing, I feel Lucina should just be given longer reach with her sword and Dark Pit actually having different damage potential would be enough to sate me.

[Zera]

The only character that should've been an alt is Dark Pit. 90% of his moveset has no differences with Pit's whatsoever. Dr. Mario and Lucina have sweeping differences that affect the entire moveset. Yes, the moves are the same, but the strategy - the utilization of those moves - is different. If you use Mario's play style with Dr. Mario and especially Luigi, you're going to get different results. With Pit and Dark Pit however, you can use the exact same strategy with no differences at all, and succeed equally with both of them.

[Ragnell]

What you're describing are semi-clones, not true clones. Luigi, Falco, Ganondorf, Roy, Lucas, Toon Link, and Wolf are all semi-clones, and some of them barely even qualify as that. They play vastly differently than their originals, to the point that they feel like completely different characters. Most of their standard moves are completely unique, with only similar-ish specials and a few normals tying them to their clonees. The closest we have to true clones currently are Dark Pit, Lucina, and Doc, with Doc really sitting on the border of clone-dom.

I have no problem with even true clones, so it would be fine by me if they stayed clones in future titles. Clones take significantly less time than unique characters to design, allowing for more characters in the game. At the same time, clones provide variations on a common set of moves so you can choose the version that fits you best while keeping a moveset you enjoy. This is way better than simple alt skins that play identical. The only character I really want decloned is Ganondorf, but his moveset is admittedly pretty cool, and I highly doubt it will ever get changed at this point. I wouldn't mind a bit better balancing between clones in future games, though, since all three clones in Smash4 are pretty inferior to their clonees.

[King Aqua Shadow]

The only clone that really warrants a change is Ganondorf. Not only is it just not fitting for him, it's also essentially worse than Falcon's, and those type of clones are just no good.

[euklyd]

as opposed to lucina, who is literally worse than marth in all ways, or dark pit, who is literally worse than dark pit in all three of the ways they changed him

but yea let's rework ganon

[Myke]

"luigification" is exactly what he needs imo. he shouldn't lose those signature moves (the knee, stomp, sideB) but changing up his other specials and normals should be fine

honestly I don't know what's to be done about lucina, I really wanted a lady smash rep and I got one and now I don't want it

actually, you know what? let her use a spear and a bow for her specials and then summon a pegasus for her final smash

Edited October 2, 2015 by Myke

[Luxian]

^This+Galeforce Instantcombo :

Her moveset was supposed to be the exact same as Marth's, but I think in Smash 5 they should change her moveset, or at least, I hope so. Else they should cut her off/make her a simple alt.

She could have had the Killing Sword (more Launching Power) I just noticed it could make a fine Item as the Ore Club or the Baseball club, Javelin/Spear. and exploited Falchion healing ability... But that could have been broken.

Oh, and change Dancing Blade to Astra and Shield Breaker to a Rapier.

Her fighting pose in FE13 could have been reused and that could have change some movs : Roy's reverse grip makes him so different compared to Marth. And also disappointed no reference to cutscenes... I want my Triple salto Aether-like B-up and her Backflip in Emmeryn chapter... Well, just suggesting... I don't want to force this on anyone. ^^' But the more I think the more I think she could be her own character instead of just a clone... But the developers wanted to add her asa bonus charcter only...

And I'm pretty astonished/disapponted that she has the same Final Smash as Marth... And that there is still no Class up/change

And change her entrance to Time travel !

Lucina could have been a fine Smash fighter if they change her bit... I admit that fighting with her was slightly easier than using Marth but now, I may prefer Marth over her...

Same for Dark Pit. There are so many weapons in KIU... Yet he IS just Pit-two... (Dont like Pittoo, don't know why). Even his FS is ripped from Zelda...But, I don't know what kind of FS he could get, so I don't care if he sticks to it for now. The only one I don't know how to change the gameplay amongst the clones is Dr Mario...

Now that my fantasy talk is over, concerning the other characters mentioned in this thread, I agree with everyone here saying they are semi-clones. And only Ganondorf should get a drastic change of moveset. At worst he can have some moves from Xanto, Vaati or Ghirahim, but he can manage on his own... And despite I want Toon Link and Link to have more differences, the way you play with one is very different from the way you play wih the other. Same for Fox/Falco. But if the FS could change... But I don't mind semi-clones and having clones is not going to stop you from playing the game. Glad the clones made it, but I expect "luigification" soon.