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Icemario

Opinion of Gaiden?

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FE2 really does not get mentioned much in this board, which is very curious. So I'm wondering; what do people who've played it think?

Personally, I love a lot of what it tries, because despite being ancient it was still extremely fresh to play through because of how unique it was and has still managed to be. It's fairly dated but its music and graphics honestly aren't terrible by any means imo (they grew on me), and the gameplay was still quite enjoyable. The two paths with Alm and Celica is one of my favourite dynamics of the game, and I wish they replicated this in Sacred Stones. Probably not my favourite FE, and definitely not my least favourite, but I still adore it.

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Nice ideas, although it suffers from the same problems FE1 has - it's old and clunky. It's not terrible by any means, but its age shows.

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I'm going to say what inevitably everyone else will say: good ideas, poor execution, poorly aged. Overall, fun in short doses for me.

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I find it to be to be my personal favorite of the Kaga era of FE games, and my 4th favorite of the series overall. The two pathways and inf. durability are awesome, and it's probably the only Kaga era FE I could recommend to a friend.

Sure, it's clunky, but I think it's aged better than FE 1 just because of how unusual it's mechanics are. It's kinda like how people can still recommend Zelda 2 despite it arguably aging as poorly as Zelda 1.

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This game needs to be remade. Unless it's so bad that IS/the fans would rather forget about it.

I mean Awakening did adapt a lot of the features like the World Map, so I would think it's feasible.

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Despite being ahead of its time and featuring many fun novelties, Gaiden is probably the worst Fire Emblem game. Embarrassing UI, slow, notorious map design, and tedious. (Summoners spawning a random number of enemies / dracozombie summons are unbearable.) It encourages grinding, JRPG-style exploration was poorly implemented and adds little, and NPCs should not have been featured considering the Famicom's limitations.

It's a toss-up between FE1 and FE2 for series-worst, but FE1 has solid map design and a battle preparations menu.

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Nice ideas, although it suffers from the same problems FE1 has - it's old and clunky. It's not terrible by any means, but its age shows.

Compared to FE1's janky interface and responsiveness, FE2 is like a dream :p

I personally love FE2, and only wish its level design and narrative pacing could be more fleshed out. It'd be really cool to see it get a proper remake one day (the fan remake out already is pretty cool for what it is, too).

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I'd say the reused maps are a minor complaint, and the overall slowness of the game was most likely due to the era it was presented in.

I like Gaiden. It's perhaps the closest the FE series has gone to a traditional RPG. It's not bad by any means, unless you count typical NES quality to be bad that's in most NES games to be bad.

The game is also fairly consistent. Everyone is shit, unless you're Alm or a Mercenary. :>

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I'm going to say what inevitably everyone else will say: good ideas, poor execution, poorly aged.

this except i wasn't a fan of the uniquely gaiden ideas so it was really just a totally mediocre game that i played through and then mostly forgot about.

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I gotta admit I have a bit of a soft spot for Gaiden.

Never actually finished it, but I've made decent enough progress. Arguments about it having aged poorly are entirely valid, and I'd say how much a person would enjoy it would be dependent in significant part upon their feelings about "old game"isms, since Gaiden does have its fair share of those.

Ultimately I'd say it's a game that's not for everyone, but I certainly like it.

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The only major complaint I had with Gaiden during my nogrind playthrough a few months back was that regular floor tiles inside buildings have +Avo. This makes any map that has a significant indoor segment during the first 3/4 of the game an RNG fest. That and Resire having 50% accuracy when you need Healers to be leveled up to gain important spells like Warp and Dear.

Aside from these two I thought the game was one of the better RPGs on the NES (certainly better than any NES DQ or FF), but I did make extensive use of the site to determine various statistics and spell levels, which are pretty much just hidden from the player otherwise.

Honestly the more I think about it, when it comes to NES RPGs I probably only think the Ultima, MIght and Magic and Wizardry "ports" on NES (or various other DnD related things) are better than FE1 and 2 on the system in terms of RPGs. Perhaps Destiny of an Emperor but I've never played it. That pretty much makes them the best JRPGs on the NES since the others are consolised versions of CRPGs heh.

EDIT: I suppose there's Mother, I never played that either.

Edited by Irysa

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Something I learned from playing this Fire Emblem Gaiden Madoka Magica flash game from which I took my current Avatar, is that the game feel of Gaiden would be far better if there was a function to speed up battle animations, among some slight interface improvements to have an easier time keeping track of everything.

Otherwise, the game's mechanics are quite neat. The slow pacing of battles actually works. Killing enemies takes longer, but so does healing them. It also makes it far more important to secure any healing spots or to make sure that the enemy can't get them. It also has a great variety in magic, compared to the other Fire Emblem games at least. And because healing is a bigger deal then usual, the trade off of HP for casting actually works quite well. In general, the feel of the battles reminds me a lot of Battle for Wesnoth.

This sole equipment slot actually worked out quite well. That way, equipping an item has a large impact on a unit's abilities.

Class balance was great. I felt like every class has a purpose and was always glad to have them around. Knights in particular really benefit from the slower pace as they still have far superior durability from everyone, despite them always getting double attacked.

The game also got a lot out of the world map. Like, it was cool how enemies would actually take action if you idle for too long, sending out reinforcements that might track you down or team up with other armies on the map.

Edited by BrightBow

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Ahhh gaiden.... It was a horrifyingly horrifying experience while I played it, and it often made me very mad, I ended up having to savestate a lot simply because it was so infuriating, despite not wanting to savestate at first... But for some reason, terrible as it was playing it, I really think positively of it and in a good, reminiscing light as I think of it now.

-It had great music, and the map-war system with 2 armies led by alm/celica was incredibly interesting. The final chapter was amazing, with the best units of both armies coming together to fight many strong bosses in a single chapter(I have never seen a chapter with that many bosses in any of the fire emblem games, which shows how greatly though out the last chapter was). Even the simple walking with Alm before the battle was great, with a creepy music and walking around a mazelike cathedral with many ways and hidden items, all while having to hurry as Celica's team is fighting the endlessly spawning Mogals and keep getting hurt and many characters would die if you were too slow(even though I'm pretty sure Celica had a heal skill, but whatever...).

-But unfortunately there's also many negative things about it. I'll skip the already known things about it's age, bad map design and bad realization of ideas. For starters, some items are far too OP. The speed ring really gives you speed, by maxing the speed stat of anyone who has it on, even of slow armors, and even giving them max movement range. Such stuff gets ridiculous really fast. Then my most hated feature of all: that one ring that doubles your stat ups. I hate items like these. Thracia did the same thing with the scrolls. It's good if you want to have low growths in a fire emblem game, I'll play with those 20%-30% growths, but including items which either boost the growth % or double the stat ups make it so tiring, as you constantly have to look at everyone's current exp to give them the ring for more stats with each level up, as every level up that happens without holding that ring seems like a waste and a mistake. That gets far too stressful and simply isn't fun anymore, which is the major reason why games with that(gaiden and thracia) have such a ridiculously low if not nonexistant replay value for me. Constantly passing the item/s around all the time for better levelups is a huge headache and ruins the fun.

Then there's the fact that lategame all you need is Alm, and every other unit is just there so you survive early-mid game until Alm becomes a god. After that it's basically Alm vs everyone, with the final, difficult chapter being fully dominated by Alm. And if that isn't enough, lategame is also ruined further by a magic healing spell that heals everyone on the entire map, without range limitations, which dumbs down any strategy or considerations. If units survive the enemy phase, they are all fully healed regardless where they are.

And last but not least, the summoners. The game went way overboard with the dark shamans and their summoning capabilities. They could summon 8 units every turn, but due to strange RNG they sometimes skip turns or summon a random number from 1-8 randomly and unexpectedly. When it's only zombies being summoned it's fine, but the summoned units keep getting stronger, to the point of 8 zombie dragons summoned each turn lategame, which is ridiculous. This further stalls the entire chapter and makes it much longer than it should be. And these summons also give you little exp for all the huge trouble they can and will cause, further making playing without savestates ridiculous as at some point someone will die to that 8-movement powerful gargoyle who managed to reach your healer or squishy mages. And if I remember correctly even witches could summon more witches and teleport them into your units to attack the same turn...

...from playing this Fire Emblem Gaiden Madoka Magica flash game...

The what?! o.o

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The what?! o.o

Well, a Flash Game based on Madoka Magica that mimics the gameplay, visuals and mechanics of Fire Emblem Gaiden. I don't actually know the name since I can't read Japanese.

Even though the game mimics the menus of Gaiden, it made a few improvements to them. There is an option to speed up battle animations, there is a pre-battle window like in the later FE games, and you can actually see how the stats of the characters and bosses are affected by the currently equipped weapon. It was amazing how these tiny changes improved the game feel.

Edited by BrightBow

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Well, a Flash Game based on Madoka Magica that mimics the gameplay, visuals and mechanics of Fire Emblem Gaiden. I don't actually know the name since I can't read Japanese.

Even though the game mimics the menus of Gaiden, it made a few improvements to them. There is an option to speed up battle animations, there is a pre-battle window like in the later FE games, and you can actually see how the stats of the characters and bosses are affected by the currently equipped weapon. It was amazing how these tiny changes improved the game feel.

Never heard of that, I'll have to try that one out. I imagine it's not as long as gaiden as it's just a flash game?

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Never heard of that, I'll have to try that one out. I imagine it's not as long as gaiden as it's just a flash game?

Yeah, it's not very long. There is no world map or any story, so it's merely a series of small maps. And you only have 5 characters. But it's a bit longer then one might think because it also features maps for the witches Orphelia and Candeloro despite them not appearing in the show.

It has two modes. One mode is a typical FE campaign mode. Despite there being only 5 characters, and the abilities of every one of them being vital, there is still Perma death. Also, if Madoka or Homura die, it's game over. But what's different from FE is that if you get a Game Over and don't load an old save, you will restart from the beginning but Homura will stay the same as she was before the Game Over.

The other mode simply let's you access all the levels directly. Enemy stats are lower to account for the fact that the player characters start at base level, you have all abilities and you get EXP super fast.

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Yeah, it's not very long. There is no world map or any story, so it's merely a series of small maps. And you only have 5 characters. But it's a bit longer then one might think because it also features maps for the witches Orphelia and Candeloro despite them not appearing in the show.

It has two modes. One mode is a typical FE campaign mode. Despite there being only 5 characters, and the abilities of every one of them being vital, there is still Perma death. Also, if Madoka or Homura die, it's game over. But what's different from FE is that if you get a Game Over and don't load an old save, you will restart from the beginning but Homura will stay the same as she was before the Game Over.

The other mode simply let's you access all the levels directly. Enemy stats are lower to account for the fact that the player characters start at base level, you have all abilities and you get EXP super fast.

Nice, that's some interesting touch with the game over screen and Homura's stats carrying over.

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Can we get a link to this flashgame?

Well, the thing is, while the game itself is harmless, the download site contained pornographic ads. So I think that I can't link it. Probably would have made a topic about the game if that problem didn't exist, seeing how it's pretty interesting but seems to be basically unknown in the English speaking parts of the Internet. The only thing I could find was a single video on Youtube with barely more then 2000 views. Besides, I could have needed some help coming up with a good strategy against Walpugisnight. I'm completely at a loss about how to approach her.

Edited by BrightBow

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The only major complaint I had with Gaiden during my nogrind playthrough a few months back was that regular floor tiles inside buildings have +Avo. This makes any map that has a significant indoor segment during the first 3/4 of the game an RNG fest. That and Resire having 50% accuracy when you need Healers to be leveled up to gain important spells like Warp and Dear.

Aside from these two I thought the game was one of the better RPGs on the NES (certainly better than any NES DQ or FF), but I did make extensive use of the site to determine various statistics and spell levels, which are pretty much just hidden from the player otherwise.

Honestly the more I think about it, when it comes to NES RPGs I probably only think the Ultima, MIght and Magic and Wizardry "ports" on NES (or various other DnD related things) are better than FE1 and 2 on the system in terms of RPGs. Perhaps Destiny of an Emperor but I've never played it. That pretty much makes them the best JRPGs on the NES since the others are consolised versions of CRPGs heh.

EDIT: I suppose there's Mother, I never played that either.

Destiny of an Emperor is quite excellent although it does have some annoying design aspects, then again the NES wasn't exactly RPG friendly.

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If FE1 has a user interface that is significantly inferior to Gaiden, then I'm both intrigued and scared how that one might look like. I guess I really need to finally start playing that game.

Edited by BrightBow

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And last but not least, the summoners. The game went way overboard with the dark shamans and their summoning capabilities. They could summon 8 units every turn, but due to strange RNG they sometimes skip turns or summon a random number from 1-8 randomly and unexpectedly. When it's only zombies being summoned it's fine, but the summoned units keep getting stronger, to the point of 8 zombie dragons summoned each turn lategame, which is ridiculous. This further stalls the entire chapter and makes it much longer than it should be. And these summons also give you little exp for all the huge trouble they can and will cause, further making playing without savestates ridiculous as at some point someone will die to that 8-movement powerful gargoyle who managed to reach your healer or squishy mages. And if I remember correctly even witches could summon more witches and teleport them into your units to attack the same turn...

Yeah that's why the Dear spell exists; summoners become obsolete at that point, especially if you have someone to heal the unit with the skill. By the time I got both Dear, it was mid Chapter 3, long before any really painful summoners, bar the map in the far east with Celica.

The only map with witches summoning witches was this late Chapter 4 one on Alm's side, that was probably the only legitimately painful instance of summoning because you can't Dear them and they use magic.

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