Fire Emblem is having an identity crisis.

[-Cynthia-]

Considering they wouldn't kill Robin in Awakening even when the player chose the ending to sacrifice them, killing off the entire Gen 1 cast seems like a no go yeah.

Edited October 7, 2015 by -Cynthia-

[The DanMan]

Honestly, I never want to see IS attempt any sort of re-make with the current series direction.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Sounds like you have self-esteem problems, if you think so little of yourself

tbh I don't see why they wouldn't just add an avatar that dies like everyone else. like I get that people wouldn't be too thrilled about dying but that's the entire point...

I think you're missing the fact that the MU's aren't actually Avatar's.

[Water Mage]

Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't FE4 originally had a third path in which the children reunited with their parents and Julius was revived by Julia's love?

Guess this idea of the children bringing back their parents back to life isn't too far from what Kaga wanted to do.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Water Mage

[~Inigo~]

Well, I may stand a bit differently from you. I voted for removing the dating sim aspect, but I actually like the feature. In Awakening, I think the Support system was absolutely fantastic. In Fates, they took it to far. This new dating sim manifested itself in a few characters. Odin, Camilla, and Charlotte. If they left it at that, Fates would have probably been okay according to me. But then, they added in skinship. Oh good lord....that behemoth. Skinship...should have not happened. They crossed the line, in my opinion, from Fire Emblem, to dating simulator. Nevertheless, I believe un- gender locking some classes was a good idea, but I think the DLC was weird with some genderlocking...

[False Prophet]

Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't FE4 originally had a third path in which the children reunited with their parents and Julius was revived by Julia's love?

Guess this idea of the children bringing back their parents back to life isn't too far from what Kaga wanted to do.

The one with Azel turned into stone?

Anyway, I'm ok with dating sims (it isn't like FE5 to 12 have many great supports to begin with) and My Castle. But skinship is simply too far.

And don't even mention world map, no durability, no arena, and phoenix mode. I know that the old FE are tough bites, but the addition of these has so many detrimental on the enjoyment of the gameplay.

Genderlock and DLC, I've no complain about it.

If everything but the kitchen sink, then a split franchise would be the answer. But it would not be a "Fire", but simply "Ember".

[Water Mage]

The one with Azel turned into stone?

Anyway, I'm ok with dating sims (it isn't like FE5 to 12 have many great supports to begin with) and My Castle. But skinship is simply too far.

And don't even mention world map, no durability, no arena, and phoenix mode. I know that the old FE are tough bites, but the addition of these has so many detrimental on the enjoyment of the gameplay.

Genderlock and DLC, I've no complain about it.

If everything but the kitchen sink, then a split franchise would be the answer. But it would not be a "Fire", but simply "Ember".

Not just Azel was turned stone, but if I'm not mistaken, Levin and Fury were supposed to be brought to life by Holsety, and Levin was supposed to return to his normal personality, Raquesis was also turned to stone, Sylvia was supposed to be alive and taking care of a crippled Claude, and I think Tility was supposed to be encased in ice.

There's more but I don't really remember it now. But I'm absolutely sure that Kaga wanted for FE4's first gen to reunite with the second gen in a third part.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Water Mage

[CocoaGalaxy]

For example, some people might say that I'm a hypocrite, but..not really, that is

For starters, my opinion is, if the "new feature" "can be ignored", then the "haters" don't really have an argument

(Cough Phoenix Mode Cough)

RE: Supports

Honestly speaking, there's a bunch of complications in this.

My own personal (selfish) opinion is that everyone should be able to support everyone, but well, yes, there is a lot of people who disagree with it.

Going back to the above, in my opinion, it's not necessarily a problem, since "you don't lose anything by having more supports"

Except that, "presumably more supports=lower quality of supports"

I don't know, I haven't read the supports "in question" yet.

(I think)

The idea of My Castle is.....odd, so to speak. I find it nice, though it could use some improvements....so to speak....

DLC is a bit more of a problematic issue.....

[Great Geargia Gateway]

DLC is a bit more of a problematic issue.....

This is something I can feel is an issue as well, but mainly because I'm butthurt that I might not be able to obtain such things (it's hard for me to get updates and even any DLC with my short amount of internet data). So I'd like to add two cents on this topic.

Invisible Kingdom is obviously just bad. Or atleast in my opinion. I'm not going into detail because we went there and it's been done to death.

Anna... I don't really care as long as she's not overpowered, I mean, I let this DLC pass because she was always unplayable from the beginning anyway, a DLC making her playable feels some reason reasonable.

Classes, I get the feel they'll make it 'pay/download to win' and not everyone is going to be able to get Witches/Ballistician/DreadFighter/DarkFalcon and even the Amiibo classes. These can make another person feel heartbroken for not getting full experiences. And I'd know for being someone who loves to 100% obtain everything.

TL;DR - Locking away more TRUE story that should have came with the game you bought, classes that are great but you won't be able to obtain, and Amiibo's that unlock more content... which are impossible to find and yet have to buy, all ruin a good experience.

[arvilino]

Most of the previous games had met the sales threshold needed for the series to continue, so it didn't NEED to change. That said, it likely wouldn't have sold quite as well without the changes.

I really want to play the game, but stuff like skinshipping is hard to put out of my mind.

As time would pass and the consoles the series appears on gets more powerful that threshold would grow larger. We already know a WiiU Fire Emblem would have needed to sell 700k to justify development, Undoubtedly the next console would be even higher and the handheld would be much higher than Awakening's goal. If the series continued to hover not far above the threshold it would be in trouble when the expectations/threshold become higher due to the platform if they hadn't attracted a substantial amount of new players. Currently the series is a stronger position to appear on the next Nintendo handheld than it was to appear at all on 3DS.

I'm not sure how I feel about the series's direction, on one hand it's great that popularity of the series rose due to the direction they took in Awakening. Though on the other hand I'm disappointed that the strategy elements didn't get developed as much.

While there are some strategy elements such as personal skills for characters, classes, pair up, and stances it doesn't help that most classes don't offer much besides 1-2 range attacks and staves and get outclassed by others.

Like why use an archer when mages and mounted units could do an archer's job just as well and not be EXP starved. Or why use knights when cavaliers and wyvern riders can get to the action/chokepoint before them and have almost the same durability as knights. I just wish they give classes a unique function to make each class worth using besides the reason of the character's appearance and personality.

I mean Awakening and Fates still retain the elements of past FE games so its identity is in a way still the same but more emphasis on what the market wants instead of what the veterans want. Kinda like how Resident Evil 4 focused more on action but some elements such as horror are there but not as much.

I'd actually argue on the contrary. Fates is the first Fire Emblem game to actually fix that issue with the archers without requiring the game to be Wyvern Knight Central or only good in the hardest difficulties because they can avoid taking attacks, 1-2 weapons have been nerfed significantly(I recall a lot of threads before Fates was even revealed people wanted Javelins and Handaxes to be limited to 1 attack per round of combat) and Bows are the best weapon to use at 2-range. Knights are more usable because pair up can get them to the front faster than before, many of the personal skills and new class skills promote characters and classes usefulness not boiling down to how good they are at combat or using staves. It also implemented the hidden weapon type that has a brand new gameplay element attached and it's very well incorporated into the existing systems.

With Fates Intelligent System has done more to develop and refine strategic and tactical elements in the game than any other entry in the series. You could point to any other Fire Emblem game and find a game that does less to make Archers in general useful in comparison to 1-2 ranged classes and less to allow Knights to reach the action than Fates does and less to promote the worth of individual classes. I'd argue if you want Intelligent Systems to develop the strategy element the new direction has a stronger focus on that with the added benefit of making the series more popular.

Edited October 7, 2015 by arvilino

[Reflex]

Kaga is a terrible writer and I'm glad Fire Emblem is staying away from that sexist horror show that some people worship.

I never got the whole spiel with Invisible Kingdom. It's another, whole fire emblem game that totals like slightly less than a home console game. Maybe I'm the only one that also plays Atlus games which charge 50 for their 3ds games at minimum.

[Alazen]

Kaga is a terrible writer and I'm glad Fire Emblem is staying away from that sexist horror show that some people worship.

Go get a tumblr account.

By the way, Awakening and Fates aren't noticeably better at writing women or whatever that ''sexist horror show'' did wrong as far as the narrative goes. Or writing much of anything really.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Alazen

[arvilino]

Go get a tumblr account.

By the way, Awakening and Fates aren't noticeably better at writing women as far as the narrative goes. Or writing much of anything really.

He does have an indirect point in there, no entry of Fire Emblem before Awakening has ever actually been held up for their writing excellence. In fact I recall Awakening got more critical praise for its story than the previous original entry(Radiant Dawn) of which the story was criticised despite the fact it had a tremendous focus on it.

Edited October 7, 2015 by arvilino

[BrightBow]

He does have an indirect point in there, no entry of Fire Emblem before Awakening has ever actually been held up for their writing excellence. In fact I recall Awakening got more critical praise for its story than the previous original entry(Radiant Dawn) of which the story was criticised despite the fact it had a tremendous focus on it.

I don't know were this comes from. I mean, Kaga was not even working on FE10, let alone writing it's story.

But either way, the quality of the story is meaningless when the question is about the identity of the series. A series might produces a stinker but that does not automatically mean that it isn't staying true to itself.

Edited October 7, 2015 by BrightBow

[kantoorfarina]

When it gets to the point where the story is damaged for the sake of waifus, and when every single character is the default anime trope personality, that's where I start to worry what a home console FE would look like.

I'm fine with the marriage system (to an extent.), but it seems like they're putting waifus before everything and you have to be able to marry every character no matter what. Also, the game takes having a virtual girlfriend way, way too seriously.

I miss well-written characters and good comedy. Now the characters are all Elise, whom only exists to appeal to fetishes, and Eponine, who's only personality trait is that she's a yaoi fangirl, and the comedic relief is now "HUEHUE SEX JOKE XD PANTIES!!!". I don't like it.

Honestly, I feel like veterans get portrayed as the bad guys far too often. People seem to say that anyone who doesn't like these features is a nostalgia blinded elitist. The new fans who say anyone who dislikes the new games and prefers the older ones are the scum of the earth are just as unpleasant as the people saying "you're not a true fan!!1"

[Mighty Kamina]

I miss well-written characters and good comedy. Now the characters are all Elise, whom only exists to appeal to fetishes, and Eponine, who's only personality trait is that she's a yaoi fangirl, and the comedic relief is now "HUEHUE SEX JOKE XD PANTIES!!!". I don't like it.

This is an exaggeration. While yes there are some problematic and/or one dimensional characters such as Eponine and Soleil (Elise's personality isn't a problem, being able to S rank her is though), most of the characters in Fates have more to them than Awakening's cast, and the quality of Awakening's cast was exaggerated as well.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Mighty Kamina

[Ebony]

Go get a tumblr account.

I don't agree with the guy before you but wow, that's pretty damn rude. And a cheap shot. Congrats, you win nothing.

Also @Geneology talk

Yeah it was something like that. It's not everyone, but a few characters get reunited with their kids. Except Sigurd.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Ebony

[Reflex]

Kaga wrote in his fake Fire Emblem franchise to have a sister sold into slavery, and then later have that sister lap dance her brother as how you acquire a Dancer character.

Tearsaga is a bad, bad game that has all the incest and sexism in full force that was held back in 4.

This is an exaggeration. While yes there are some problematic and/or one dimensional characters such as Eponine and Soleil (Elise's personality isn't a problem, being able to S rank her is though), most of the characters in Fates have more to them than Awakening's cast, and the quality of Awakening's cast was exaggerated as well.

Also most of the character supports in 6-10 are terrible and dry. They're only notable because the translation spiced them up a bit over a dry language like Japanese.

Wait, that sounds familar. Isn't that what's going to happen....to Fates? Hmm. It's almost like....nah. never mind.

[Alazen]

You keep going to sexism. I hope you aren't pretending Awakening and Fates are noticeably better on that front.

[blinkingbrave]

They are in terms of the writing. Neither are particularly good in terms of costuming, but FE4 most prominently features Dierdre, who's entirely defined by her current relationship. You also have Adean's kidnapping, for the sole purpose of sexual reasons, and Lachesis's attempted kidnapping, also for sexual reasons. I dunno what the intention of that all was actually to be, but it... does kinda read a lil sexist.

I wouldn't say anything is dramatically bad (except Dierdre), but it is kinda problematic at parts. Part of it could just be that the game is older. I dunno. I usually just kinda spare it a lil eye roll and move on. Given the game's age, it's really not indicative of much about series direction so it's not really worth getting worked up over, imo.

Awakening/Fates really is noticeably better on the writing front here at least, though.

Edited October 8, 2015 by blinkingbrave

[Jedi]

Kaga is a terrible writer and I'm glad Fire Emblem is staying away from that sexist horror show that some people worship.

Where on earth did this even come from...? Who worships a game? The ideas in older FE's are much more adult then the ones present in Awakening and Fates, is that so wrong? Its a ye olden fantasy world, of course there is going to be some sexism, but you know what? I can't really think of the games having many sexist moments and if any of them do, its Awakening and Fates.

Go get a tumblr account.

By the way, Awakening and Fates aren't noticeably better at writing women or whatever that ''sexist horror show'' did wrong as far as the narrative goes. Or writing much of anything really.

This wasn't exactly a good reply to it either...

[Dandragon]

Kaga wrote in his fake Fire Emblem franchise to have a sister sold into slavery, and then later have that sister lap dance her brother as how you acquire a Dancer character.

Tearsaga is a bad, bad game that has all the incest and sexism in full force that was held back in 4.

I dont think you know what sexism means.

[Reflex]

I dont think you know what sexism means.

Then please defend all the times women are kidnapped, stripped of their power, or basically belittled and insulted by every male character at their introduction in Tear Ring Saga. Please be my guest on how sending a cleric to a town so she gets forced into slavery and she becomes a dancer later by incestual happenchance is just kooky instead of terrible.

[Zerosabers]

@Reflex, The only thing you're proving is that the world Tear Ring Saga takes place in is sexist. Having horrible shit happen in your game doesn't mean that you actually support it.

[Ebony]

Then please defend all the times women are kidnapped, stripped of their power, or basically belittled and insulted by every male character at their introduction in Tear Ring Saga. Please be my guest on how sending a cleric to a town so she gets forced into slavery and she becomes a dancer later by incestual happenchance is just kooky instead of terrible.

Because it also has strong women that defy the gender stereotypes and aren't belittled and even strike back.

Remember Ira? Tailto? Even when Tailto was beaten down, when little Teeny was threatened, she took the beatings for her. That's pretty damn heroic and awesome, despite how tragic it is. Fury? A pegasus knight, they're all awesome, and Fury ruled a kingdom by herself while her lord was out.

The ladies give back what they receive.