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Zachmac

Fire Emblem is having an identity crisis.

  

332 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you fine with the direction Awakening and Fates have been taking Fire Emblem in?

    • I love shipping anime characters together!
      59
    • You're not meant to be a dating simulator, Fire Emblem. Stop trying to be one.
      64
    • I don't care as long as the gameplay is good.
      163
    • These answers are worse than Azura's HP growths. My opinion is totally different then any of these!
      46
  2. 2. Are you fine with gender exclusive classes and weapons?

    • Genderlocks are unnecessary. Why shouldn't a man ride a pegasus?
      135
    • Genderlocks are actually a little sexist at times. Looking at you, Bride class.
      27
    • Fire Emblem has always had gender exlusive classes. I don't see the problem.
      93
    • Removing the gender locks on several classes and then adding genderlocked weapons and DLC classes is just dumb.
      59
    • These answers are worse than a promoted Asama's personal skill. My opinion is totally different then any of these!
      18


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Having horrible shit happen in your game doesn't mean that you actually support it.

You get a beneficial class change for activating the event, though (I haven't played TRS but I assume it has the same effect as Lara recruiting Pahn in Thracia).

Like Fates' skinshipping, it rewards you for instigating sexual abuse.

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You get a beneficial class change for activating the event, though (I haven't played TRS but I assume it has the same effect as Lara recruiting Pahn in Thracia).

Like Fates' skinshipping, it rewards you for instigating sexual abuse.

I've never played TRS so I don't know exactly how that whole event goes down, but I assume the player isn't told explicitly that if you send her there she'll become a sex slave.

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I've never played TRS so I don't know exactly how that whole event goes down, but I assume the player isn't told explicitly that if you send her there she'll become a sex slave.

If I remember correctly, in the pre chapter dialogue for the map that this event takes place in there is dialogue in the house that triggers the event that states they are looking for cute, weak girls. So the player knows that something will happen. Not going to get into the main argument though.

Edited by Mighty Kamina

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Then please defend all the times women are kidnapped, stripped of their power, or basically belittled and insulted by every male character at their introduction in Tear Ring Saga. Please be my guest on how sending a cleric to a town so she gets forced into slavery and she becomes a dancer later by incestual happenchance is just kooky instead of terrible.

Just because the world within the game is sexist doesn't mean that the game itself is sexist. Game of Thrones is a lot worse in regards to abuse of female characters, but does that make the George R. R. Martin or even the novels themselves inherently misogynistic?

You get a beneficial class change for activating the event, though (I haven't played TRS but I assume it has the same effect as Lara recruiting Pahn in Thracia).

Like Fates' skinshipping, it rewards you for instigating sexual abuse.

I don't know where you got 'skinship is sexual abuse' from, but the S-Rank dialogue (while a little eyebrow-raising) is clearly consensual and the worst you get from non S-Rank dialogue is getting called weird.

Edited by Phillius

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They are in terms of the writing. Neither are particularly good in terms of costuming, but FE4 most prominently features Dierdre, who's entirely defined by her current relationship. You also have Adean's kidnapping, for the sole purpose of sexual reasons, and Lachesis's attempted kidnapping, also for sexual reasons. I dunno what the intention of that all was actually to be, but it... does kinda read a lil sexist.

I wouldn't say anything is dramatically bad (except Dierdre), but it is kinda problematic at parts.

Awakening/Fates really doesn't have a plot point or characterization like that.

Are you saying that it's problematic for crooked (Keyword: Crooked) royal and noble men in a setting largely modeled on pre-industrial societies to abduct women?

As for the point that Deirdre is problematic for being overly defined by her relationships to Sigurd and Arvis, I can bring forth Lucina (both pre-release marketing and her game make a big deal of her apparent link to Marth, plays second-fiddle to her father and an Avatar), Kamui's royal sisters (especially Camilla), etc. And mind you Awakening and Fates came out after RD, which features Micaiah and Elincia who for all the problems they have (especially Micaiah) don't have ''overly defined by their relationship to a single character'' as one.

Edited by Alazen

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Just because the world within the game is sexist doesn't mean that the game itself is sexist. Game of Thrones is a lot worse in regards to abuse of female characters, but does that make the George R. R. Martin or even the novels themselves inherently misogynistic?

I don't know where you got 'skinship is sexual abuse' from, but the S-Rank dialogue (while a little eyebrow-raising) is clearly consensual and the worst you get from non S-Rank dialogue is getting called weird.

Sakura apologies for sleeping without your permission if you hit her to wake her up.

That's probably what he's talking about.

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I was more thinking about how non S-rank dialogue exists at all. I wouldn't feel comfortable rubbing or being rubbed by someone unless I was in a relationship with them.

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Are you saying that it's problematic for crooked (Keyword: Crooked) royal and noble men in a setting largely modeled on pre-industrial societies to abduct women?

As for the point that Deirdre is problematic for being overly defined by her relationships to Sigurd and Arvis, I can bring forth Lucina (both pre-release marketing and her game make a big deal of her apparent link to Marth, plays second-fiddle to her father and an Avatar), Kamui's royal sisters (especially Camilla), etc. And mind you Awakening and Fates came out after RD, which features Micaiah and Elincia who for all the problems they have (especially Micaiah) don't have ''overly defined by their relationship to a single character'' as one.

The actions themselves make sense within the context of the plot. But the writing decision, itself, still comes across as a lil... problematic to me, just given the details surrounding the plot point, and the fact that it feels generally unnecessary. So much of the plot is about politics, why not reference Adean's status or Lachesis's importance as a hostage to knock Eldigan down a peg? Both would be just as scummy and fit in better with the whole political focus. Why do we have to go straight to sexual potential? When Eldigan is tossed in jail, it's all political. When whoever the enemy is goes to steal away a female unit, it isn't.

This is why I don't have an issue with Leen's circumstances, which is very similar sexual exploitation. She's a dancer who doesn't have much else going for her. Adean and Lachesis though both could have been used to up the political drama and purposefully weren't.

It's probably just a nitpick, and it's more directed at the employed trope than anything else.

The issue with Deirdre isn't that she's overly defined by her relationships to Sigurd and Arvis, she's completely defined by them. It's her entire personality and all her dialogue. The Fates/Awakening examples have their own personalities and dialogue that doesn't just profess their love for their object of focus. I haven't played anything from Tellius, but good female characters are a series staple. Since you mentioned a comparison between FE4 and Fates/Awakening specifically though, I just figured I'd go ahead and address that particular one.

Edited by blinkingbrave

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One of the main and most glaring problems with Kaga's writing is that he loves to make his world as gritty, dark and edgy as possible as he himself has admited (well that was clearly an exaggeration but you get it).

And after this decition the problem he and many, MANY, writers have is that they don't actually know all that much of how to make the player/reader know that the world they are getting into is absolute garbage, you know you could mention things like the many diseases a soldier can get in big ass marches ala FE4, the numerous political issuess taking territories creates unless it's taken care off properly, they even play with this in FE10 a little now that I think about it don't they?

But I'm going off rails, Kaga much like many others doesn't know how to write these things, doesn't know about them at all, or thinks it doesn't give off the strong impact the narrative ''needs'' (spoilers, this is wrong and hurts oportunities of worldbuilding), so they go to the honestly easy route of having characters fall into situations of sexual abuse and the like which pretty much everyone knows is wrong and fucked up, and due to many reasons which fall into the persons cultural upbringing, influences, inspirations, misinformation (like the myth of people having kids at 14 and dying at like 21 all the time back in the day), etc etc ends in females being using as toys for the sake of drama and making you know the bad guys are bad guys and little more.

Edited by Jariu

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Just because the world within the game is sexist doesn't mean that the game itself is sexist. Game of Thrones is a lot worse in regards to abuse of female characters, but does that make the George R. R. Martin or even the novels themselves inherently misogynistic?

I mean some people would argue it is.

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I don't know where you got 'skinship is sexual abuse' from, but the S-Rank dialogue (while a little eyebrow-raising) is clearly consensual and the worst you get from non S-Rank dialogue is getting called weird.

It's only appropriate (and even then, it can be weird) after you get the S-rank. Before that you are feeling up random members of your army, some of whom react with discomfort or confusion. Kamui's 4koma creeper personality is canon.

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Just because the world within the game is sexist doesn't mean that the game itself is sexist. Game of Thrones is a lot worse in regards to abuse of female characters, but does that make the George R. R. Martin or even the novels themselves inherently misogynistic?

I don't know where you got 'skinship is sexual abuse' from, but the S-Rank dialogue (while a little eyebrow-raising) is clearly consensual and the worst you get from non S-Rank dialogue is getting called weird.

Its funny the argument about ASOIAF exists about that, because George R.R. Martin is something of a feminist. His work in that series is about depicting how horrible women had it in that universe (and how close to reality it came). And how those women deal with it. Its why Daenerys isnt male and why Sansa's story is what it is. The show is another argument because of its depictions of abuse against women (see: Sansa in season 5) are not actually canon. But thats kind of...a different bag of peanuts.

I mean some people would argue it is.

They do and if they are speaking about the books themselves, their arguments are full of holes considering what the author believes and such. And they arent reading between the lines with his work.

I dont agree that skinship is sexual abuse either. But i can see why this option feels really weird outside otome and the fact you can do it with just about everyone in the army. It is a little weird and i would have been happier if it was only available after a certain support level. At the same time, i also see the mechanical merit in this feature. It raises support points a little. If you've been jamming away with Kamui pairing up with someone like i dunno..uhh...Arthur or some junk. And you just didnt unlock the support that chapter, but only really wanna see that support, just pat him on the head for the extra support point. It does kinda help with support grinding to unlock the support log for Kamui. You can do it the old fashioned way too if it wigs you out to do that though. I also like how My Room can actually be removed from My Castle. So if you really dont want that feature there, BULLDOZE BABY.

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It's only appropriate (and even then, it can be weird) after you get the S-rank. Before that you are feeling up random members of your army, some of whom react with discomfort or confusion. Kamui's 4koma creeper personality is canon.

Honestly, how comfortable I am with it varies from character-to-character. There's people like Kinu and Nishiki who are more than happy with it and outright encourage you to pet them, but then there are people who do nothing but call you weird and uncomfortably ask what the hell you're doing so really, so it comes down to the 'this is fun':'don't touch me' ratio of their dialogue for me.

Edited by Phillius

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Awakening was my favorite game in the series but I prefer fire emblem returned to its roots while still keeping some innovations awakening and fates brought to the table. The new games are great but they are too plagued in fan service it's hard for older fans to get a taste for them.

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Honestly, how comfortable I am with it varies from character-to-character. There's people like Kinu and Nishiki who are more than happy with it and outright encourage you to pet them, but then there are people who do nothing but call you weird and uncomfortably ask what the hell you're doing so really, so it comes down to the 'this is fun':'don't touch me' ratio of their dialogue for me.

Kinu and Nishiki probably aren't the best examples, considering they are fox people who (in the same way as animals) enjoy being petted. Even if a character's dialogue says they enjoy it, the reality is most people wouldn't appreciate being touched by people they aren't in a close relationship with. If Kamui looked like Hormone and William as opposed to the attractive, young anime character that he is, more people would be quick to denounce the mechanic as really creepy and sexual harassment.

But skinship, like DLC and the 2nd gen, is dubiously canon so I guess we shouldn't need to think too hard on it. Shouldn't think hard on a lot of things for Fates.

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Kinu and Nishiki probably aren't the best examples, considering they are fox people who (in the same way as animals) enjoy being petted. Even if a character's dialogue says they enjoy it, the reality is most people wouldn't appreciate being touched by people they aren't in a close relationship with. If Kamui looked like Hormone and William as opposed to the attractive, young anime character that he is, more people would be quick to denounce the mechanic as really creepy and sexual harassment.

But skinship, like DLC and the 2nd gen, is dubiously canon so I guess we shouldn't need to think too hard on it. Shouldn't think hard on a lot of things for Fates.

Thanks for giving me the mental image... :v

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Thanks for giving me the mental image... :v

No problem, babe. Feel free to come to my room any time.

[spoiler=Tee hee<3]

Hormone_portrait_zpsg0ngovcl.png

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Thanks for giving me the mental image... :v

its true tho, prettier and more handsome people can get away with alot more

taking DmC, its an awful game, and i can say that it would've been well received if Donte was anywhere near as handsome as Dante in any of his era's (teen or uncle versions)

not to mention all the serial killers in fiction and real life that have had people crush on them despite being horrible people, because of their looks.

need i remind all of you that latch onto a character before getting to know them because of how they look? humans are pretty damn shallow when it comes to attractiveness, this i am also guilty of.

Edited by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

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its true tho, prettier and more handsome people can get away with alot more

taking DmC, its an awful game, and i can say that it would've been well received if Donte was anywhere near as handsome as Dante in any of his era's (teen or uncle versions)

not to mention all the serial killers in fiction and real life that have had people crush on them despite being horrible people, because of their looks.

need i remind all of you that latch onto a character before getting to know them because of how they look? humans are pretty damn shallow when it comes to attractiveness, this i am also guilty of.

why do you hurt me this way

why do you remind me this game exists

DMC1... my first video game...

No problem, babe. Feel free to come to my room any time.

[spoiler=Tee hee<3]

Hormone_portrait_zpsg0ngovcl.png

Well, you aren't wrong. So I tried making the most unattractive Kamui I could.

Go798L6.png

lemme stroke ur face

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Someone, somewhere, will still find that attractive.

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Someone, somewhere, will still find that attractive.

Yeah, honestly it was insanely hard to even come up with that. It isn't even "ugly" as much as... off putting, I'd guess.

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10/10

Someone, somewhere, will still find that attractive.

No matter what it is, it is somebody's fetish. No exceptions.

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