Baldrick Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I answer yes. Why would confessions etc. be in First Person view otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Why do people say Kamui/Corrin hurts Fates? (NO SPOILERS please) I find him/her really interesting because he/she is finally something totally different from your typical blue-haired sword wielding prince. Sure he/she still has a sword, but he/she also turns into a badass deer dragon and doesn't have blue hair (unless you choose it). He/she also doesn't seem entirely goody-two-shoes like many lords are, especially if you choose to side with Nohr (they're invading another country, which is typical villain behavior in the series). And having an Avatar for the main character rather than a major supporting character looks like it would work better since Robin stole a lot of Chrom's spotlight. I'm really looking forward to this Avatar character. ...You know what, on second thought, maybe you guys shouldn't explain. I should just wait for the game myself. It might be hard to avoid spoilers otherwise anyway. Edited October 8, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethepokemaster Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I wish FE would take a break from the avatar in the next game. Not saying that they have to be gone forever because we all know that is not happening, but like how FE7 had a tactician and then FEs 7-11 didn't I wish they'd give the avatar a break in the next installment and then maybe bring them back later. The last three FE games have all had avatars. It's getting repetitive. I don't they will people like being to interact with characters of the games and plus I think the Avatar is pretty popular so... yeah I don't see it going anywere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blinkingbrave Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) But in the end, I question if Kamui is even intended to be a self insert, but rather just allowing the player to name and design the lead they want, over "insert gary stu blue haired lord". Juuuust given what I've experienced and seen flit across my tumblr/AO3/pixiv page, kinda? Sorta self insert-y in terms of supports, really not in terms of main plot (excepting when you're making a decision). While I've seen people refer to Kamui/Robin as 'them' in terms of who they married and befriended and Morgan/Kanna as 'their' child, the plot points I've seen people associate with themselves instead of Kamui/Robin are the choices the game invites you to make, not the ones Kamui/Robin makes on their own. People also tend to note their custom MUs in fanart/fanfic as different from Robin/Kamui, OCs, etc. Given that Robin makes decisions on his/her own, without the player's knowledge, I'd think that's rather telling, as well, at least to what the original intentions were. How self insert-y a character feels is also kinda up to opinion. Personally, neither Robin or Kamui ever really 'felt' like me in the main plot, Kamui even less so. For that matter, the only thing it ever felt like I did was marry someone. If that screen cut in thing wasn't there, I probably wouldn't have associated that with me either. Edited October 8, 2015 by blinkingbrave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Anyway, long story short, after nearly 30 years of gaming, I've come to accept jRPGs for what they are and enjoy them for what they are, as well as with wRPGs. And try to expect the way one genre does things to happen with another. But feel free to correct me though, if there's a jRPG that flows in the same veins as wRPGs, like with BioWare and Bethesda, I'd like to know. Dark Souls Anyways, my ideal would be an avatar whose silent in the background, but playable and customizable, while the main lord does all the character stuff. Mark still feels like the most realistic self-insert to me in the Fire Emblem series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysander Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) And Langrisser and Growlanser and Devil Survivor and SMT and and and lots of stuff really. I mean, I guess 3/4 of those were mostly the same people but still. Edited October 8, 2015 by lysander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunsurge Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Idk. I really liked Robin. XD If the avatar isn't customizable like Dragon Age: Inquisition, then I kinda just make a character that's in a new story. So for Awakening, I made Vane, who I adored. XD He wasn't supposed to be ME, which is why I didn't mind him having a defined personality. The best part was just a character I could customize and felt like I inserted into the game. Haven't played Fates, but I'm sure it won't be terrible. But even when I have full customization (DA:I), I still make a character. I hardly ever make ME (except in the latest Pokemon because they offered DARK SKIN), but usually I create a whole new character and I think that's fun. The only way I would reallllly just LOVE the avatar is if we got dialogue trees and our personality was based around the answers we choose (I mean it's not like Awakening was fully voiced ANYWAYS, so it was totally possible). But generally I'm not a fan of silent protagonists (Ludger from Tales of Xillia), because I'd rather them have a personality already assigned, then two choices that don't really feel like an option. But no. I like Avatar characters. Though I think I'd prefer the whole Robin situation where you weren't the LORD, but you still played a major part in the story. (maybe it's because I like being a magical character and I like being on the sidelines). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Why do people say Kamui/Corrin hurts Fates? (NO SPOILERS please) I find him/her really interesting because he/she is finally something totally different from your typical blue-haired sword wielding prince. Sure he/she still has a sword, but he/she also turns into a badass deer dragon and doesn't have blue hair (unless you choose it). He/she also doesn't seem entirely goody-two-shoes like many lords are, especially if you choose to side with Nohr (they're invading another country, which is typical villain behavior in the series). And having an Avatar for the main character rather than a major supporting character looks like it would work better since Robin stole a lot of Chrom's spotlight. I'm really looking forward to this Avatar character. ...You know what, on second thought, maybe you guys shouldn't explain. I should just wait for the game myself. It might be hard to avoid spoilers otherwise anyway. Yeeaahhhh the reason people say Kamui is not a good thing for the story is hella fucking spoilery and i know you are avoiding even mild spoilers. Lets just put it this way. (in non-spoilery terms) You know how Robin kinda bogarts the spotlight a bit in Awakening? He/she doesnt do it so much until the third act of the game? Ok...well....Now that our MU is actually the "lord" character, EVERYTHING revolves around Kamui. Everything. Right down to characters being rather obsessed with them. It caused problems with the narrative. Man, remember when i was pushing for dialogue trees? I really wish we had dialogue trees.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augestein Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 That boils down to personal preference, I thought Mark was some shoehorned garbage, it'll have the same effect if they never had that option. And I can't stand silent protagonists, because most times they do "talk" but you just don't see it, NPCs would talk to you and answer questions that you supposedly ask, or a statement you supposedly make, but you don't see it. But this is most prominent in jRPGs, I don't ever recall a jRPG with any meaningful dialogue choices. except for dating sims and visual novels. No it doesn't. The extra little scenes that happen in the game as a result of you being there don't exist, and Athos has no reason to give the tactician the Afa Drops. Again, your role is small, but it was as meaningful as it should be. Was it perfect? No. But first time attempts generally aren't. It was certainly less clunky than Kris, Robin or from what I hear Corrin. As for JRPGs with meaningful choices? Tactics Ogre had some. It ultimately determined your alignment, your chaos frame-- which effected unit loyalty, as well as potential party members that could join AND the ending. Just because there aren't a ton doesn't mean that we should just ignore the fact that these games have choices in them. Or even that they couldn't change and try them out. Think about it, 7 games in to Fire Emblem, we never really had class choices for characters as a standard mechanic, and now since Shadow Dragon that now seems to be the norm rather than a novelty like Gaiden or Sacred Stones. Also, just because you don't have thousands of dialogue tree choices that ultimately means nothing, doesn't mean you're not making any choices. You still decide which side you go with, and depending on your choices your actions through the chosen choice can result in bad things to happen. Also, there's the choice of doing supports or not doing supports, if you don't bother to do supports, it's the same as a wRPG, as choosing the option to tell the npc to bugger off. But that's just me. "Choice," "choice," "choice." These are your words. Not mine. You're arguing against yourself at this point. I'm not here to talk about whether you have choices or not, I'm here to argue whether the character is a good avatar or not. A character that speaks but doesn't allow the player any influence is not a good avatar. A character that doesn't speak can still play as a surrogate for the player because it doesn't outwardly express its opinions or commit to any real preferences outside of player choice. Which is good enough. Being able to choose ANY support IS a good thing for a player avatar as it shouldn't have a theoretical preference to anyone. However, having the supports autoplay and go certain directions however, is not a good thing. If the avatar is going to continue to have supports and the character is supposed to be me, then I shouldn't be reading a dialogue back and forth, the characters the avatar supports should be talking to me and I should be given choices to say to the player-- the moment I'm not, it's not really me anymore. Which is exactly the problem. The supports for the avatar should be more akin to Social Links in Persona 3 and 4 for instance if they are going to continue like this and want the avatar to be a surrogate for the player. Making an avatar is by no means an easy feat. Anyway, long story short, after nearly 30 years of gaming, I've come to accept jRPGs for what they are and enjoy them for what they are, as well as with wRPGs. And try to expect the way one genre does things to happen with another. But feel free to correct me though, if there's a jRPG that flows in the same veins as wRPGs, like with BioWare and Bethesda, I'd like to know. Shin Megami games often have the player make choices that affect the story. Say... Devil Survivor for a simple one. Sure the gameplay might be similar overall for the paths but the implications, party members and even some of the fights have some differences. And if you get Overclocked-- on the 3DS, there's even more. And this means nothing to the discussion. It doesn't matter how long they've done things, things change. Like Fire Emblem and their inclusion of an avatar. It wasn't always there, so if they add it, is it too outlandish to expect them to make it good? But in the end, I question if Kamui is even intended to be a self insert, but rather just allowing the player to name and design the lead they want, over "insert gary stu blue haired lord". But if that's the case, why give them a customizable name, a customizable appearance, and sex/gender? Why give them every support in the game and make a completely set of different rules for him/her if it's not supposed to be you? Look at someone like say Claude from Star Ocean 2. You can influence certain decisions Claude makes, but Claude is still very much his own character. They could very easily make Kamui/Corren like that, it'd require less effort too, but they don't. There has to be a reason for that. The only way I would reallllly just LOVE the avatar is if we got dialogue trees and our personality was based around the answers we choose (I mean it's not like Awakening was fully voiced ANYWAYS, so it was totally possible). But generally I'm not a fan of silent protagonists (Ludger from Tales of Xillia), because I'd rather them have a personality already assigned, then two choices that don't really feel like an option. The issue with Ludger is that he was clearly defined as a character despite being silent. Ludger was clearly a dork, a nice guy, a chef, a man that liked to cook but wanted to be a Spirius Agent... His silence wasn't fooling anyone. Though for a first attempt, it was alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Yeeaahhhh the reason people say Kamui is not a good thing for the story is hella fucking spoilery and i know you are avoiding even mild spoilers. Lets just put it this way. (in non-spoilery terms) You know how Robin kinda bogarts the spotlight a bit in Awakening? He/she doesnt do it so much until the third act of the game? Ok...well....Now that our MU is actually the "lord" character, EVERYTHING revolves around Kamui. Everything. Right down to characters being rather obsessed with them. It caused problems with the narrative. Man, remember when i was pushing for dialogue trees? I really wish we had dialogue trees.... Well yeah, why wouldn't the story revolve around Corrin? He/she IS the main character. That's what the main character is for, so the story has a focus. Also, I seem to recall that Takumi doesn't have any sort of obsession with Corrin. There are probably a few other characters that don't as well. Edited October 9, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) It doesn't matter how long they've done things, things change. Like Fire Emblem and their inclusion of an avatar. It wasn't always there, so if they add it, is it too outlandish to expect them to make it good? Considering we've had 3 bad ones in a row, my hope isn't increasing. Edited October 9, 2015 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Well yeah, why wouldn't the story revolve around Corrin? He/she IS the main character. That's what the main character is for, so the story has a focus. Also, I seem to recall that Takumi doesn't have any sort of obsession with Corrin. There are probably a few other characters that don't as well. There's no way to answer your questions specifically without spoiling things. Let's just say that Kamui sucks as both an avatar (already explained throughout this thread) and a character. And while it's true that not everyone's obsessed with Kamui, but for the people that do, it's to ridiculous degree. But obviously the player worship/pandering don't just stop at obsession towards the protagonist, otherwise you wouldn't see so much complaints about how Fates handled Kamui's character. Edited October 9, 2015 by Ryo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I see. Well, I'll still play the game first before I decide whether or not I dislike Corrin. Although, it surprised me that while Robin was popular in the Japanese polls for Awakening, Corrin didn't even crack the top ten in the one for Fates... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Well yeah, why wouldn't the story revolve around Corrin? He/she IS the main character. That's what the main character is for, so the story has a focus. Also, I seem to recall that Takumi doesn't have any sort of obsession with Corrin. There are probably a few other characters that don't as well. Kamui is the 3rd born child and a foreigner (because of blood, in Nohr, and because of a Nohrian upbringing in Hoshido) to his respective nations so he's shouldn't be very important compared to characters like Marx and Ryoma. Compare this to Chrom who is the crown prince and leader of the armed forces of his nation. A lot of characters practically worship Kamui (several of the neutral characters and the siblings). It's disproportionate and detracts from their characterization. Being the protagonist doesn't or shouldn't automatically make you the center of the universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yeah, it's best to experience the games for yourself before making any personal judgement. I'm sure there're still a lot of people that don't really see others' negative opinions regarding Kamui as major flaws of their character and/or the story's execution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blinkingbrave Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Kamui's the most popular character tag on pixiv associated with the tag I use to snoop on Japanese fanart for the game, so the reception must not have been too bad... I dunno that much about the Fates poll, so maybe he/she just wasn't on there? As for Kamui's inclusion/role in the story itself, yeah, I'd read it for yourself. Opinions are pretty mixed, and I've heard everything from praise to criticism and all the spaces in between. Localization may also end up retconning his/her personality some, a la Eliwood and Marth, because that 'extremely naive protag' thing is apparently a mildly popular Japanese trope? It appears in unlocalized (and localized) stuff beyond FE. Or it might stay in because it fits with the plot, so I guess we'll see. Edited October 9, 2015 by blinkingbrave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical-Pigeon Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) I really feel like it depends on who the avatar is The good avatar: I feel what makes a good avatar is if their personality makes sense with the design, their relationship to other characters, a more unique backstory, why they chose a certain person to be their spouse, and how they are drawn. One of my biggest complaints with avatars is that I find people will have similar looking avatars (Sometimes almost the EXACT same) and only one of them makes sense with the look and design. Speaking of which- The bad avatar: The person picks whatever looks the best for the avatar and puts no thought into backstory, everybody in the army loves them, and they only care about how their spouse looks and don't even think about there personality Cough, Suzukaze memes. In other words, the reason I hate avatars is because in the game they are usually the Mary Sues/ Gary Stews. I think in order to express your avatar to the fullest is that they need to stand out from others, be drawn in your own way (Doesn't matter if you can draw or not), and also be written well...oh, and don't make them perfect, for the love of gods don't make them perfect Edited October 9, 2015 by Wolfie (Noheart) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Extremely naive protag is a nasty cliche anywhere honestly. I hope localization is good, I haven't heard any good things about this game's story. I guess I'm only looking forward to the gameplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 About the character poll, it's hard to tell whether they counted Kamui as a legitimate answer because that question didn't really have a poll, you have to fill in the names of your favorite characters yourself. Even if they did count Kamui, I'm not really surprised at the fact they're not as popular as the other characters (especially the royal siblings). There's nothing really appealing about Kamui's personality (if not making the players more frustrated), and their design is either a hit or a miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Imo, localization seems to be better than Japanese text. From what I've seen of Japanese PoR, for example. Ike and Elincia are about as interesting as cardboard boxes. The localization makes them feel much more like people with emotions, rather than boring robots. So I do have some faith that the localization team can make improvements. Edited October 9, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blinkingbrave Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) About the character poll, it's hard to tell whether they counted Kamui as a legitimate answer because that question didn't really have a poll, you have to fill in the names of your favorite characters yourself. Even if they did count Kamui, I'm not really surprised at the fact they're not as popular as the other characters (especially the royal siblings). There's nothing really appealing about Kamui's personality (if not making the players more frustrated), and their design is either a hit or a miss. Yeah, it's no wonder the royals almost all appeared up there, and I'd have been surprised if Kamui outranked the ones that made the list. The only reason I'd suspect Kamui wasn't truly counted is that retainers made it on the list. Not that Oboro and Odin aren't well-written (Well, Oboro is. I'm still meh on Odin), but it's still curious Kamui didn't at least make it on plot relevance alone (which is where a good deal of Aqua's popularity seems to come from). Perhaps m!Kamui and f!Kamui were counted as two different characters or something? Personally, I actually like Kamui, but I also found his/her personality and interaction with the royals endearing and found the circumstances surrounding the Nohr route interesting, instead of frustrating. A lil bland on Hoshido, but overall, inoffensive. So the personality may just be hit or miss, too. Edited October 9, 2015 by blinkingbrave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Well yeah, why wouldn't the story revolve around Corrin? He/she IS the main character. That's what the main character is for, so the story has a focus. Also, I seem to recall that Takumi doesn't have any sort of obsession with Corrin. There are probably a few other characters that don't as well. Oh no, just about everyone loves Kamui. Its like the others said, we cant really tell you just how bad the Kamui worship is without spoilers. And Takumi is obsessed with Kamui, but in a different way. On the non-Nohr routes, hes perfectly peachy with Kamui for the most part. I just feel like, if you were slightly annoyed by Robin's focus, Kamui might make you want to punt small, fluffy animals. Even the villains seem oddly obsessed with Kamui..... Imo, localization seems to be better than Japanese text. From what I've seen of Japanese PoR, for example. Ike and Elincia are about as interesting as cardboard boxes. The localization makes them feel much more like people with emotions, rather than boring robots. So I do have some faith that the localization team can make improvements. I hope some improvements are made. Im really holding out to see if there are. Cuz some stuff is just absolute BS and its like "how could they even write that?" Again, what those are may be spoilery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern_Lord Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) I dislike the avatars because of their designs, especially Kamui who looks like he is extremely constipated the entire time. Give me some god damn facial hair IntSys! Not everyone who plays your games is a baby faced teenager! Imo, localization seems to be better than Japanese text. From what I've seen of Japanese PoR, for example. Ike and Elincia are about as interesting as cardboard boxes. The localization makes them feel much more like people with emotions, rather than boring robots. So I do have some faith that the localization team can make improvements. Good thing localization for this series is really good and tends make rather boring characters more interesting and removes all the stuff that makes you go "WTF where they thinking!?" Edited October 9, 2015 by Wyvern_Lord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Good thing localization for this series is really good and tends make rather boring characters more interesting and removes all the stuff that makes you go "WTF where they thinking!?" very much so! with that said there are downsides, like any Ike/Elincia teases only being in the overseas script due to literally adding it on, which makes it seem hilarious when the two are "good friends" in FE10, just like they were in the original FE9. just saying, localization's aren't always good or always bad, but FE generally has more hits then misses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I highly doubt the localization can improve any part of Kamui, honestly. It's a bit difficult to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.