General Warriors Thread: Persona 5 Scramble

[Jedi]

10 minutes ago, Etheus said:

So talking about Lu Bu being weaker than standard in X is not relevant to him being weaker than standard in Y? Are you actually serious?

 

I swear, the SF mods have the most backwards, overly stringent definition of what does and does not constitute on topic in any forum I have ever participated in. 

I’m not a mod first of all.

It’s more you’re making excuses to bitch about something that’s not even relevant to the topic. That you have excessively and it’s gotten incredibly old.

Also as expected my favorite kingdom of Wu got no God Forms. I hate being right.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Jedi

[Etrurian emperor]

3 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I wonder if they're ever going to address that Nobunaga and Cao Cao are practically identical when it comes to their looks and their ultimate goal, which is discarding old traditions.
Speaking of Nobunaga, I never expected him to sound like he's constantly on a stage in a play / a posh noble. I imagine him making overdramatic gestures whenever he talks. XD

I don't think the two are alike at all actually. The both fill the same role as the mayor powerhouse that other faction unite against but in their personality they couldn't be more different. 

Cao Cao stands for order and reason while Nobunaga is chaotic and openly revels in the carnage he has his troops inflict.

Cao Cao is an incredibly benevolent boss while Nobunaga isn't. Cao Cao treatment of his vassal is very much like Ieyasu but Nobunaga allows situations to fester that leads to the death of his brother in law, his wife, his boy toy and finally himself while leaving his sister and the vassal who he pushes into betraying him with a good deal of trauma. That he does this because it gets him exited speaks rather poorly about Nobunaga's relation with his retainers or his family. 

Cao Cao is the quintessential Chinese gentlemen. He's always very dignified and serious. Nobunaga is an eccentric and not shy about admitting it. Nobunaga even says he crossdresses from time to time which I doubt Cao Cao would ever do. 

Even their ultimate goals might not be so similar. Nobunaga makes it clear he wants to forge his own world but Cao Cao may be actually loyal to the Han dynasty. Its his son, not Cao Cao himself who creates their empire and if Cao Cao unites the land in DW8 he doesn't try to create Wei but lets the old emperor keep the throne. 

The two seem more like foils of each other. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[The DanMan]

12 hours ago, Jedi said:

She was introduced properly in SW4 which was a bit after Orochi 3 first came out. Three years in fact, and Ultimate came out before that too iirc.

Actually, she alongside Takatora and Munenori debuted in late 2012 in Samurai Warriors Chronicles 2nd, an updated re-release of the original 3DS title-- which was based in the SW3 engine.

2 hours ago, Jedi said:

Also as expected my favorite kingdom of Wu got no God Forms. I hate being right.

Lu Xun/Tadakatsu Honda/Wang Yuanji in DLC/expansion are my expectations.

3 hours ago, Etheus said:

Maybe WO3 Lu Bu was actually DW9 Lu Bu - the pathetically weak one that you have to pursue to beat Hulao Gate instead of the regular Lu Bu you must not pursue.

Actually, you can easily beat him at Hulao Gate in Strikeforce-- officially it's an optional objective, but with a bow + poison attribute you can turn him into a relative non-issue.

Edited September 6, 2018 by The DanMan

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I wonder if they're ever going to address that Nobunaga and Cao Cao are practically identical when it comes to their looks and their ultimate goal, which is discarding old traditions.
Speaking of Nobunaga, I never expected him to sound like he's constantly on a stage in a play / a posh noble. I imagine him making overdramatic gestures whenever he talks. XD

I'm not quite sure on the source of this, but apparently Cao Cao was visually based on a famed portrayal of Nobunaga in a movie. Later comes Samurai Warriors, which couldn't help but reuse the same Nobunaga portrayal for the its Nobunaga.

Also, according to historical myth, at the Battle of Okehazama- where Nobunaga began his rise to glory by killing Yoshimoto Imagawa, in the initially desperate situation, Nobunaga wrote poetry (a common thing for educated samurai- pre-death final poems were a thing) and did some kind of dance with a fan.

 

3 hours ago, Jedi said:

Also as expected my favorite kingdom of Wu got no God Forms. I hate being right.

So you're a Wu fan? Interesting. Not sure which faction I like the most- other than it not being Shu.

And isn't Lu Xun popular with the fangirls like Cao Pi and Mitsunari? Albeit a sweet boy as opposed to their- ouch, they cut me!

 

So the Deifications are mascots, fangirl favorites, fanboy favorites, Lu Bu, and Nobunaga. I get not wanting to make it purely the three-four Dynasty patriarchs and the three Samurai unifiers, that can be boring, but this is even worse. Surely they could've found a middle path.

And can Koei ever admit that historical Lu Bu wasn't a supergod? He, like my aged dog when food is around, could apparently bark so loud the zenith of Heaven and nadir of Hell alike could hear it, but his bite fell far short of that bark. If it didn't then how the heck didn't he live longer and do more? Being aggressive does not equate to being strong.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Interdimensional Observer

[DragonFlames]

20 hours ago, Etheus said:

Also, Naotora isn't THE worst. That would be Xiaoqiao and Daqiao. Naotara is just almost the worst. 

Daqiao is fine, she's a bit plain when compared to some of the other Wu characters, but nothing offensive. The only thing that bothers me about Xiaoqiao is her voice. It's like nails on a chalk board. Gameplay-wise, she's alright, I guess.
In All-Stars, Naotora is fun to play as (just spam Triangle over and over), but her shtick gets really, REALLY annoying in that game.

20 hours ago, Sasori said:

Yeah my impression wasn't that Nehza was super dangerous, but more that Lu Bu was a pathetic joke in WO3. So him getting a god mode is a bit step up. Still I wonder what they will do with him in the game. There are only 8 god slots so limiting Lu Bu to his usual role, but only with a transformation seems like a bit of a waste. Giving him an important or leading role in the story would be weird though seeing how Lu Bu is both an awful person and an awful leader.

Naotora is still the worst and no god mode will change that.

Yeah, I can't imagine Lu Bu being a protagonist, either. He's just that strong dude that kills everything in his path (not that I have anything against that, mind you). Even him making alliances and even forming friendships in All-Stars is weird as hell and I haven't even played most of the original Warriors games, as the only ones I HAVE played are Fire Emblem, Hyrule and All-Stars.

It's interesting how many people dislike Naotora here. I was under the impression that she was a fan-favourite, what with her being in All-Stars and all, a position which really should have gone to Okuni, Kunoichi, Oichi or Aya.

19 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't think the two are alike at all actually. The both fill the same role as the mayor powerhouse that other faction unite against but in their personality they couldn't be more different. 

Cao Cao stands for order and reason while Nobunaga is chaotic and openly revels in the carnage he has his troops inflict.

Cao Cao is an incredibly benevolent boss while Nobunaga isn't. Cao Cao treatment of his vassal is very much like Ieyasu but Nobunaga allows situations to fester that leads to the death of his brother in law, his wife, his boy toy and finally himself while leaving his sister and the vassal who he pushes into betraying him with a good deal of trauma. That he does this because it gets him exited speaks rather poorly about Nobunaga's relation with his retainers or his family. 

Cao Cao is the quintessential Chinese gentlemen. He's always very dignified and serious. Nobunaga is an eccentric and not shy about admitting it. Nobunaga even says he crossdresses from time to time which I doubt Cao Cao would ever do. 

Even their ultimate goals might not be so similar. Nobunaga makes it clear he wants to forge his own world but Cao Cao may be actually loyal to the Han dynasty. Its his son, not Cao Cao himself who creates their empire and if Cao Cao unites the land in DW8 he doesn't try to create Wei but lets the old emperor keep the throne. 

The two seem more like foils of each other. 

Okay, this makes sense. They're both pretty badass in their own ways, I think. Though Cao Cao does seem like a more decent person from what I read about him and from what you said.

17 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And can Koei ever admit that historical Lu Bu wasn't a supergod? He, like my aged dog when food is around, could apparently bark so loud the zenith of Heaven and nadir of Hell alike could hear it, but his bite fell far short of that bark. If it didn't then how the heck didn't he live longer and do more? Being aggressive does not equate to being strong.

I guess that is what they call "artistic license". I seriously doubt Yukimura Sanada (which isn't even the historic person's real name) or Zhao Yun were ever the heroic dudes the games try to sell them as. And I also doubt the historic Wang Yuanji (who was apparently a mother of 4 children at 15 years old) was a Tsundere.

[Etrurian emperor]

1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

It's interesting how many people dislike Naotora here. I was under the impression that she was a fan-favourite, what with her being in All-Stars and all, a position which really should have gone to Okuni, Kunoichi, Oichi or Aya.

Well, Naotora is really popular because she's designed to be appealing to a very sizable group, this being the Otaku crowd or those that have slight overlap with that crowd. The problem is that Otoku pandering or Moe traits are catering to a very specific market with a bad reputation. I understand the Otaku crowd really being into this Moe blob of a character but I can also imagine that these same qualities that make Naotora appealing to that group makes her repulsive to a lot of other people. All those things that give Naotora her fans are certainly why I myself think she's the worst female in the series. 

I have my suspicions that Mitsunari owes his high popularity primarily to his prettyboy looks and tsundere nature but even then there are more valid reasons to like Mitsunari, but Naotora seems to be beloved solely for fanservice reasons and that's very hard to respect for me. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[DragonFlames]

35 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Well, Naotora is really popular because she's designed to be appealing to a very sizable group, this being the Otaku crowd or those that have slight overlap with that crowd. The problem is that Otoku pandering or Moe traits are catering to a very specific market with a bad reputation. I understand the Otaku crowd really being into this Moe blob of a character but I can also imagine that these same qualities that make Naotora appealing to that group makes her repulsive to a lot of other people. All those things that give Naotora her fans are certainly why I myself think she's the worst female in the series. 

I have my suspicions that Mitsunari owes his high popularity primarily to his prettyboy looks and tsundere nature but even then there are more valid reasons to like Mitsunari, but Naotora seems to be beloved solely for fanservice reasons and that's very hard to respect for me. 

I like Mitsunari because he reminds me of myself. I also have trouble talking to people like he does and only a few friends that I open up to, so I could connect to him immediately (also his introduction cutscene in All-Stars is badass as hell). What sold him for me was when he admitted to Plachta (a character from the Atelier games, in case you didn't know) that he sometimes wishes he was a book so he could avoid talking to anybody. He's also really fun to play as. I haven't gotten around to trying him in Orochi 3 Ultimate yet, but I most certainly will.

I agree with you on Naotora, even if my reasons are a tad different. My loathing of her stems more from her ability to make herself unkillable for about 20 seconds in All-Stars, which is really gosh darn annoying on timed missions and her being annoying in general with her Ii Clan Precepts. There are characters that certainly pander to a fanservice loving crowd - i.e. nearly anyone from the DOA series (another series I haven't played and have no intention to because I suck at fighting games) - but even from those games, Ayane and Kasumi are better, or at least infinitely more interesting characters than Naotora. In my opinion at least.
Though I don't know if she's the worst female in the series, as I haven't even played the complete series.

[Interdimensional Observer]

34 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I have my suspicions that Mitsunari owes his high popularity primarily to his prettyboy looks and tsundere nature but even then there are more valid reasons to like Mitsunari, but Naotora seems to be beloved solely for fanservice reasons and that's very hard to respect for me. 

Mitsunari did have point IRL. Hideyoshi's declared heir was his infant son, and all Mitsunari tried to do is stop Ieyasu's ambitions to seize power for himself. 

Unfortunately, because it is complicated and boring for a hack n' slash, and there has to be an appeal to generic modern values. As a result, what is lost is why people are often fighting each other in the first place, like why Katsuie Shibata got into disagreement with Hideyoshi. 

But the thing is, they could make a good case for Sekigahara using historical Ieyasu and Mitsunari. Ieyasu can be twisted into meritocratic and saying that Japan, although arising from chaos, is still weakly unified and needs a strong ruler. Mitsunari calls Ieyasu's bluff as being purely a power grab of self-interest, and that for Japan to be reunified in peace now, the warlords must accept Hideyoshi's blood heir even if they are an infant, for if this step is not taken, what Ieyasu proposes will be a act that keeps the disuniting ambition of the warriors alive.

Similarly, Dynasty Warriors could benefit with a little more historical nuance, namely in the case of Shu. Their cause would be stronger if they could just say "The Han Dynasty for the past 400 years have kept China as one and prosperous, Wei and Wu seek to overturn this. I Liu Bei wish to restore from this chaos what has for so long brought China only the best.".

[Fabulously Olivier]

23 hours ago, Jedi said:

Also as expected my favorite kingdom of Wu got no God Forms. I hate being right.

Ignoring the argument in favor of more interesting discussion.

 

I'm curious as to what defines a kingdom as favorite to Warriors players. I see a lot of Wei love and Shu hate in the community in particular.

 

Is it individual characters that define love/hate? Is it overall character selection? Is it the ideals of the faction? Is there some overall aesthetic that defines a favorite? 

 

In regards to myself, if I had to pick a favorite faction by ideals, it has to be Wei by default, as they're the only ones that seem to have an actual plan for the governance of China. Shu comes across as naively continuing war under the belief that they're the only ones with high enough morals to restore peace. And I do not know what to think of Wu. 

 

By overall character selection, I probably like Shu best, but that is by a narrow margin. Each faction hosts several of my favorite characters.

Wei has Xiahou Dun, Cao Pi, and Li Dian.

Shu has Zhao Yun, Jiang Wei, Xu Shu, and Guan Xing. 

Wu has Zhou Yu (probably my favorite Warriors character), Lu Meng, Zhou Tai, and Ling Tong.

Jin has Sima Shi, Zhong Hui, and Jia Chong, and Wen Yang.

And I don't like anyone from the "other" category. Not even Lu Bu.

 

(As a common theme, my favorite characters are typically sleek, fast, and wear flowing cloth and steel. I favor the tacticians and I usually automatically dislike characters that fall into the "heavy" category.) 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Etheus

[Jedi]

1 hour ago, Etheus said:

Ignoring the argument in favor of more interesting discussion.

 

I'm curious as to what defines a kingdom as favorite to Warriors players. I see a lot of Wei love and Shu hate in the community in particular.

 

Is it individual characters that define love/hate? Is it overall character selection? Is it the ideals of the faction? Is there some overall aesthetic that defines a favorite? 

 

In regards to myself, if I had to pick a favorite faction by ideals, it has to be Wei by default, as they're the only ones that seem to have an actual plan for the governance of China. Shu comes across as naively continuing war under the belief that they're the only ones with high enough morals to restore peace. And I do not know what to think of Wu. 

 

By overall character selection, I probably like Shu best, but that is by a narrow margin. Each faction hosts several of my favorite characters.

Wei has Xiahou Dun, Cao Pi, and Li Dian.

Shu has Zhao Yun, Jiang Wei, Xu Shu, and Guan Xing. 

Wu has Zhou Yu (probably my favorite Warriors character), Lu Meng, Zhou Tai, and Ling Tong.

Jin has Sima Shi, Zhong Hui, and Jia Chong, and Wen Yang.

And I don't like anyone from the "other" category. Not even Lu Bu.

 

(As a common theme, my favorite characters are typically sleek, fast, and wear flowing cloth and steel. I favor the tacticians and I usually automatically dislike characters that fall into the "heavy" category.) 

For me it kind of just goes by the whole, I liked Wu in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel, I like Wu in Dynasty Warriors, I adore Sun Jian and Sun Ce as leaders, Quan had to grow on me entirely. I also am a sucker for the whole Tiger motif they have going, and that they're usually big on family (in Warriors that is). I also love how it's basically a rag tag bunch of misfits that Sun Ce cobbles together and Quan just gets even more of. 

Wei is an impressive empire and Shu is the whole hard work gets you some achievements, I like characters in all 3 factions, but Wu always spoke to me personally. 
 

Also on the topic of Naotora, I like how she plays, but I vastly prefer how she is in Sengoku Basara. 
 

22 hours ago, The DanMan said:

Actually, she alongside Takatora and Munenori debuted in late 2012 in Samurai Warriors Chronicles 2nd, an updated re-release of the original 3DS title-- which was based in the SW3 engine.

Lu Xun/Tadakatsu Honda/Wang Yuanji in DLC/expansion are my expectations.

Actually, you can easily beat him at Hulao Gate in Strikeforce-- officially it's an optional objective, but with a bow + poison attribute you can turn him into a relative non-issue.

I forgot that Chronicles even existed.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Jedi

[Etrurian emperor]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Mitsunari did have point IRL. Hideyoshi's declared heir was his infant son, and all Mitsunari tried to do is stop Ieyasu's ambitions to seize power for himself. 

Unfortunately, because it is complicated and boring for a hack n' slash, and there has to be an appeal to generic modern values. As a result, what is lost is why people are often fighting each other in the first place, like why Katsuie Shibata got into disagreement with Hideyoshi. 

But the thing is, they could make a good case for Sekigahara using historical Ieyasu and Mitsunari. Ieyasu can be twisted into meritocratic and saying that Japan, although arising from chaos, is still weakly unified and needs a strong ruler. Mitsunari calls Ieyasu's bluff as being purely a power grab of self-interest, and that for Japan to be reunified in peace now, the warlords must accept Hideyoshi's blood heir even if they are an infant, for if this step is not taken, what Ieyasu proposes will be a act that keeps the disuniting ambition of the warriors alive.

Similarly, Dynasty Warriors could benefit with a little more historical nuance, namely in the case of Shu. Their cause would be stronger if they could just say "The Han Dynasty for the past 400 years have kept China as one and prosperous, Wei and Wu seek to overturn this. I Liu Bei wish to restore from this chaos what has for so long brought China only the best.".

Though that's kinda the problem. In real life Hideyoshi made it very clear that his son was to succeed him....but in the more recent games he was equally clear that Ieyasu should take over after him which kinda turns this loyal retainer into a war monger who starts a civil war either because he doesn't like Ieyasu or because he can't bear his clan having to settle for second place. 

Historically it was fairly grey as well. Most contemporaries felt Mitsunari was a schemer who was in it for his own gain. And Japan was still a recently unified feudal society that only bowed down to the Toyotomi because they were the most powerful clan. After Hideyoshi's death they weren't any longer. The Tokugawa always had more wealth and land than Hideyoshi had and after his death there was no one left with the power, influence or experience to be Ieyasu's peer. And Mitsunari wasn't helping much. Hideyoshi might have turned a bit insane at the end but he was a builder of bridges(If you were Japanese at least) who learned his defeated enemies to be loyal because he was extremely generous to them after their defeat. So someone who's widely disliked probably wasn't the best choice to fill the big shoes of the bridge builder Hideyoshi. 

But what Mitsunari does in the plot or history isn't really the reason I don't like him. Japan might love tsundere's but I don't, and I find Mitsunari to be a particularly poor example. He's always extremely hostile to everyone without any justification for his bad behavior, yet he's expected to get a free pass on this because he has poor social skills and has a few select people he treats decently. Being a jerk doesn't have to be a bad thing, Kuroda Kanbei is my favorite character and he's a jerk to people as well. The big difference is that Kanbei only criticizes other characters when there are actually things to critisize while Mitsunari criticizes people just to deflect from his personal issues and thus generally doesn't have a point like Kanbei does. What also doesn't help is that he's so insufferably self righteous all the time. Ieyasu is one of the most benevolent people in the series who is WO's counterpart to Liu Bei for a good  reason, yet the way Mitsunari constantly talks during the Sekigahara arc is as if he's some noble hero and Ieyasu a demon king on par with Nobunaga. 

But unlike Naotora I see why other people might like him. I hate tsundere's but that's a very personal thing and others probably really do see Mitsunari as more sympathetic than his rival. He's also one of the main characters so he's got plenty of screentime to win people over. 

Quote

I forgot that Chronicles even existed.

Well, its one of the least known sub titles of the franchise I believe. It barely got any presence on Youtube for instance. And that's a shame because the quality is actually really high for a handheld game and the story is often far better than those in the main games. Characters like Hanbei, Noh and Ranmaru definitely had their strongest portrayals in the Chronicles games. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[Jedi]

10 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

 Well, its one of the least known sub titles of the franchise I believe. It barely got any presence on Youtube for instance. And that's a shame because the quality is actually really high for a handheld game and the story is often far better than those in the main games. Characters like Hanbei, Noh and Ranmaru definitely had their strongest portrayals in the Chronicles games. 

I should probably check them out, when my backlog isn't so huge haha.

[Etrurian emperor]

Quote

 

Is it individual characters that define love/hate? Is it overall character selection? Is it the ideals of the faction? Is there some overall aesthetic that defines a favorite? 

In regards to myself, if I had to pick a favorite faction by ideals, it has to be Wei by default, as they're the only ones that seem to have an actual plan for the governance of China. Shu comes across as naively continuing war under the belief that they're the only ones with high enough morals to restore peace. And I do not know what to think of Wu.

 

For me its a combination of ideals and characters. 

The Toyotomi clan is a clan full of nice people who just want to spread sunshine and rainbows and don't mind doing this the hard way. But aside from their goal being a peaceful world they also host my three favorite characters. They got Kanbei who's pretty devoted to sunshine and rainbows despite being a seemingly amoral vampire of a guy and its got Hideyoshi, an incredibly nice guy who's goofy and flawed enough to be amusing but still comes off as competent despite all those flaws. Hanbei is my third favorite for being a Shota done well and for being pretty amusing and tragic. Despite being an Oda officer you could argue he fits more with the Toyotomi which gives the clan my three favorites.

Wei is also all about sunshine and rainbows....and iron and blood to everyone who stands in the way of their goals. They seem the most nuanced faction because they are ruthless in their conquest but are benevolent in their rule and really just want to create a good government for the people. Of the three big leaders Cao Cao is easily the best one since he's got vision, charisma, and a baddass aura around him. Its Jin rather than Wei who has my favorite cast but there's a pretty big overlap between Jin and Wei, and I tend to like Wei officers above those of Shu and Wu. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Etrurian emperor

[Fabulously Olivier]

Should I decide to give Warriors Orochi 4 the reasonable benefit of the doubt, I have one simple concern. Is there any indication that the Switch version will be of reasonable quality? 

 

From experience, Fire Emblem Warriors runs passably, but it does suffer from some framerate dips and has crashed on me multiple times. That doesn't instill confidence, but a genre like this is perfect for portability. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 hours ago, Jedi said:

I should probably check them out, when my backlog isn't so huge haha.

After HW, my testing of the waters into Musou proper was SWC1, certainly not a bad game. Enemy count is on the low side for a Warriors (I think SWC3 increased it), but overall quite good. It has HWL-styled character swapping, making for some hectic battles where you're trying complete multiple missions at once while switching back and forth, and making sure you always have someone everywhere you need a fighter.

I forget which battle it is, but seemingly randomly on a second play of one, I unlocked a pre-battle scene where Nobunaga seems to force choke Hanbei.

 

6 hours ago, Etheus said:

Zhou Yu

Good taste, although I'm not that versed in Musou, he is probably my favorite Wu character. I do tend to like the strategist types as a whole, Zhuge Liang being the one significant exception.

 

4 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Hanbei is my third favorite for being a Shota done well and for being pretty amusing and tragic.

I think it helps IRL he obviously wasn't a Shota, wasn't the decision to make him one was to visually contrast him with his close friend in Kanbei? They managed quite effectively though to bring down the strategy from that of a cold grown man, while not turning Hanbei into a totally kiddy kid who you can't actually see making strategy. He manages to be mature, but with a slim, optimistic, energetic and somewhat relaxed childish flavor.

 

4 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Hideyoshi might have turned a bit insane at the end

"A man born on this earth, though he might live to a ripe old age, will not, as a rule, reach a hundred years. Why then should I rest grumbling in frustration where I am? Disregarding the distance across the sea and across the mountain reaches that lie between us, I shall in one fell swoop invade Great Ming. I have it mind to introduce Japanese customs and values to the four hundred and more provinces of that country and to bestow upon it the benefits of imperial rule and the culture of the coming hundred million years.

Your esteem country has done well to make haste in attending to our court. To the farsighted, grief does not approach. Those who lag [in offering homage], however, will not be granted pardon, even if this is a distant land of little islands lying in the sea. When the day of of my invasion of the Great Ming arrives and I lead my troops to the staging area, that will be the time to make our neighborly relations flourish all the more. I have no other desire but to spread my fame throughout the three countries, this and no more."

- Parts of Hideyoshi's letter seeking for Korea to let him pass through en route to China, as it was translated in a book I'm currently reading. The rather condescending language in the second paragraph helps explain partly why Korea didn't let him pass through, leading to one of Hideyoshi's bigger follies. Just felt like sharing this.

[Jedi]

6 hours ago, Etheus said:

Should I decide to give Warriors Orochi 4 the reasonable benefit of the doubt, I have one simple concern. Is there any indication that the Switch version will be of reasonable quality? 

 

From experience, Fire Emblem Warriors runs passably, but it does suffer from some framerate dips and has crashed on me multiple times. That doesn't instill confidence, but a genre like this is perfect for portability. 

I'd recommend you get it on a Sony or Xbox console, since while they can be optimized decently on Ninty stuff they usually aren't unless they're exclusive to Nintendo in the first place.

[The DanMan]

New footage:

Featuring Odin: Pro Skater + spammable time stop, Ares the dragon rider who also dual wields them like SMGs at points, Nobunaga sapping health and sending enemies to hell, and Naotora playing with (energy) balls and killing enemies with hearts and flowers. Also new remixes of Arena and Destruction by Fire.

[Fabulously Olivier]

22 hours ago, Jedi said:

I'd recommend you get it on a Sony or Xbox console, since while they can be optimized decently on Ninty stuff they usually aren't unless they're exclusive to Nintendo in the first place.

Is that your intention as well, out of curiosity? 

From my limited look into it, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference, but I rarely notice performance differences unless a game dips below 30 fps. 

[Jedi]

15 hours ago, Etheus said:

Is that your intention as well, out of curiosity? 

From my limited look into it, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference, but I rarely notice performance differences unless a game dips below 30 fps. 

Yeah i'm getting it on PS4, I'm not particularly confident in Koei-Tecmo doing stuff on the Switch unless it's exclusive to it.

[Fabulously Olivier]

19 hours ago, Jedi said:

Yeah i'm getting it on PS4, I'm not particularly confident in Koei-Tecmo doing stuff on the Switch unless it's exclusive to it.

That's fair and unfortunate. I prefer the joycon controller and portability, but KT has a well-earned reputation for poor ports and cutting corners.

 

I've at least done enough research to determine that the game looks worthwhile. It's a traditional comfort food Warriors experience, and that's what I'm looking for at the moment. They can redeem themselves to me by making my last vacation of the year worthwhile (because I can pretty much guarantee that I won't get a December vacation for Smash Ultimate and nothing else from now till the end of the year screams must own to me personally). Consider that a hesitant second chance for the franchise this year from me.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Etheus

[Etrurian emperor]

And the game is out now. Its pretty solidly okay but its not the highlight of the series like Warriors Orochi 3 was. 

I really like the sacred weapon feature. A lot of them really help during combo's and they provide characters with a few more moves to their arsenal. They are more powerful than your average mosou attacks and some can get really silly like riding around in a giant Boar. Everyone has at least one unique attack with them like Fa zeng using his red cloth to enrage the Boar as if it was a Bull or Yukimura using the Gleipnir rope to create a ring of burning fire he then charges through. 

The story has more of its own feel to it. In WO3 everyone had already found their place in the world but here the whole cast just arrived and need to figure out what's going on. The plot suffers a bit from making a Moe blob one of its focus characters but it also gives attention to some characters who never really gotten their due like Sun Quan(the red haired stephchild of the three kingdom rulers) or Kenshin. Again its no WO3 but it does the job well enough for a Warriors game. 

In some ways the game does seem like a downgrade of what came before. The camp feature for example is just replaced with a basic menu and I notice a disturbing lack of boss conversation. WO3 didn't give everyone a special boss conversation with their loved ones but they really tried putting as many in them as they could. In this game almost no one has a special conversation if they have to fight their loved ones or rivals. Kai didn't even say a word when beating up her hot Hojo dad. 

Speaking of Hojo, his new voice actor does a pretty solid job of replacing the late Ishizuka. 

[Jedi]

I haven't gotten to play Orochi 4 yet, money is tight plus I have Trails of Cold Steel 3 to play anyways. However this cool thing happened, which I don't think was posted in here. 

 

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

@JediHilariously late but i just bought Chronicles last week and i find it weirdly fun lol. Its definitely broken as fuck as a game mechanically though due to how they set up the Musou and command mechanics and if i can describe it in short its basically "what if a warriors game allows you to control everyone, but you need to control them so we throw 90 annoying sub missions on your face with fairly strict deadline) and Katsuie Shibata alvailable  in chapter 1 what is this madness

[DragonFlames]

7 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

@JediHilariously late but i just bought Chronicles last week and i find it weirdly fun lol. Its definitely broken as fuck as a game mechanically though due to how they set up the Musou and command mechanics and if i can describe it in short its basically "what if a warriors game allows you to control everyone, but you need to control them so we throw 90 annoying sub missions on your face with fairly strict deadline) and Katsuie Shibata alvailable  in chapter 1 what is this madness

Funny, that. I just got around to finishing up the story mode of Samurai Warriors Chronicles 3 on 3DS, myself. It's a really fun game with a great story and great characters. It reminded me somewhat of Fire Emblem Warriors, but better. Character creation is what absolutely sells this game for me, and those little what-if scenarios alongside the main scenario added that much more to the game. I believe they did a great job of portraying the different figures of the warring states era, as well and they struck a great balance with sticking to history and telling their own story. Although I was kind of sad when

I had to kill Mitsuhide Akechi after he betrayed Nobunaga Oda, because the game portrayed him as a really gentle and kind man. Also, his daughter is one of the cutest characters I've ever seen.

Safe to say, I really liked it, despite some - very minor - complains here and there.
My favourite characters from this game, if anyone's interested:

The player character - They're really versatile and a blast to play as with five different weapon types to choose from. You can also make them a second version of any character you like, which I really enjoy. I made Satomi (my "avatar" so to speak) a Kunoichi clone, because I love Kunoichi's gameplay a lot, but I can't use her everywhere initially.
Kunoichi - Probably my favourite female in any mainline Warriors game (of which I admittedly haven't played too many). She was a mainstay in Orochi 3 due to her Musou and is even better here. Hyper Attacks ftw!
Ina - Really fun to play as with good ranged attacks and a really creative move set using her sword-bow. She's also a really badass character, being the daughter of freaking Japanese Zhang Fei (that is, Tadakatsu Honda).
Nobuyuki Sanada - Favourite male character in the game. He's awesome to play as and has a great character to boot.
Kanetsugu Naoe - Funny and over the top hammy and really fun to play as. It's great that you get to play as him, Ina and Nobuyuki in the final mission of the main story, because these three have become my favourites in the game to play as.
Gracia - As hinted in an above spoiler, I like Gracia a lot. Her attacks flow really well and her beating people up with her bare hands makes it all the more enjoyable to play as her. She's also adorable as heck. Gameplay-wise, she kind of reminded me of Honoka and Marie Rose from All-Stars, both characters I enjoy using, as well.
Tadakatsu Honda - Ina's dad and a badass in his own right. He's a blast to play as, because his moves feel really weighty and powerful. It's a shame you don't get to play as him that often if you don't replay stages.

 

Think I'll dip my head into the Samurai Warriors side of things a bit more, actually. I really enjoyed the characters and their interactions with each other.

---

Once more on the topic of Lu Bu being an OP badass: Having read The Romance of the Three Kingdoms up until Chapter 8 so far, I can safely tell you that Lu Bu's portrayal as an unstoppable force of nature in Dynasty Warriors isn't actually exaggerated. Though Zhang Fei - a guy that swings around a ten foot halberd in the book - matched him in a solo battle, it took him, Guan Yu (an actual demigod with a hundred and twenty pound Guandao, according to the novel) AND Liu Bei to make him retreat.
The "Lu Bu among men, Red Hare among horses" thing also comes from the novel, which calls him "a warrior without equal".
And then, seeing as how Dynasty Warriors is loosely based on the novel, I feel like it's not hard to see why Lu Bu is the way he is in the games.
 

[Etrurian emperor]

14 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

@JediHilariously late but i just bought Chronicles last week and i find it weirdly fun lol. Its definitely broken as fuck as a game mechanically though due to how they set up the Musou and command mechanics and if i can describe it in short its basically "what if a warriors game allows you to control everyone, but you need to control them so we throw 90 annoying sub missions on your face with fairly strict deadline) and Katsuie Shibata alvailable  in chapter 1 what is this madness

That's one of my favorite Warriors games. It was the first one that did character switching and I think the morale zone mechanic added a lot to the game. The stages are also fairly short to make them easy to grind in while long enough to offer satisfaction.

But most of all is that every character get their due. Even characters who often get ignored like Noh and Ranmaru get an arc and both seem to have been given one of the better ones to make up for not having a character campaign in SW3. 

6 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Funny, that. I just got around to finishing up the story mode of Samurai Warriors Chronicles 3 on 3DS, myself. It's a really fun game with a great story and great characters. It reminded me somewhat of Fire Emblem Warriors, but better. Character creation is what absolutely sells this game for me, and those little what-if scenarios alongside the main scenario added that much more to the game. I believe they did a great job of portraying the different figures of the warring states era, as well and they struck a great balance with sticking to history and telling their own story.

Chronicles 3 was great too but not as good as the first game. I noticed Chronicles 3 cutscenes are a lot more wacky like the characters actually hosting a self help show with incompetent judges. It got some very good bit like the hypothetical campaign starring Hideyoshi and Kanbei, and it had the strongest portrayal of Matsunaga. The two stages system for hypotheticals kinda doomed some stories though. The Date one for example had its story finish off screen after two stages weren't enough to tell it.