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[FE4] Ruleset discussion for drafts


Yojinbo
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We've had a couple of FE4 drafts over the last few months but for one reason or another I've never been quite happy with how things played out in the end. Dunno how other people feel about it but I think we should try to come up with a decent ruleset because the current one has a couple of flaws that should be addressed. The biggest issue I have is that Sylvia is broken - from all the drafts I've checked out on this site the player that got to pick Sylvia ended up winning [regardless of whether Sigurd was 'banned' or not]. Picking Sylvia gives you pretty much the 2nd best unit in gen 1 [with the best unit being either free for everybody or for nobody] and also the 2nd or 3rd best unit of gens [again, with the best unit being either free for everybody or for nobody]. The biggest problem though is that there's no realistic way for the other players to make up for it in any way. If you don't get Florina in a FE7 draft somebody else will still get to Fiora. Or Heath. Or Lowen/Sain/Kent. There are ways to balance it for the other players. If somebody gets Sylvia in FE4 then you can't make up for it by picking Lachesis or Ethlin or Aideen. I personally think this needs to be fixed.

At one point I've tried to counterbalance it by having Deidre as a draftable unit but I'm not sure if that really worked out that well. I think it's a good idea in Sigurdless runs because Celice won't be completely broken and Deirde's usefulness is pretty limited. As long as whoever picks Deidre doesn't get Dew as well it should kinda work out ... in a run that allows Sigurd that won't be an option though.

Making Sylvia a free unit [or banning her entirely] won't work either because then it'll likely just be the same situation in which whoever picks Ethlin will end up winning. So right now I'd be mostly interested in finding a way to deal with it. [banning Sylvia entirely and making Ethlin free for all players may be an option worth thinking about but idk if that's a good idea]. Any input would be appreciated.

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don't see what's wrong with the default ruleset (that hasn't been used in a long time)

Drafting:

1. This draft is for 4 players.
2. Sigurd, Deirdre, Celice, Ardan, Oifaye and Julia are free for all to use.
3. When any mothers are drafted, their children come with them. Example: Drafting Ayra gives you Ayra, Lakche and Skasaher.

Rules:
1. Undrafted units may only: Recruit characters, participate in Talk conversations and special events that do not require the participants to be lovers.
2. Undrafted units may not do anything not listed above, including but not limited to meatshielding, giving Charisma bonuses, using the Give command, or participating in Lover/Sibling criticals.
3. Other and Neutral units may do as they please without penalty.
4. Arena use is allowed and encouraged.

Penalties:
1. Non-holy weapon users (Noish, Ayra etc.) have a 3 turn penalty per unit per castle.
2. Holy weapon users (Levin, Shanan etc.) and Dancers have a 7 turn penalty per unit per castle. Example: Using Noish (if undrafted) en route to Jungby results in a 3 turn penalty. Once Sigurd seizes Jungby, you take another 3 turn penalty if you use Noish while en route to Evans.
3. Using the Give command is a special 12 turn penalty.

Exceptions:
1. Generation 1 units may lose a bout in the Arena and then die to an enemy while unequipped to prevent them getting married. The enemy must have no other friendly units in his attack range and must finish the character in a single round.
2. Briggid, Claude and Tiltyu are free to use in Chapter 3.
3. Dew may lower the bridge in Chapter 4 if undrafted. He may not perform any other disallowed actions without penalty.
4. Leaf, Fin and Janne are free to use in Chapter 7.
5. Shanan is free to use in Chapter 7 until Yied is seized.

usually if you don't get a dancer, you get rescue!Leaf or Aideen for early warp (in gen 2). Lachesis can save some niche turns with rescue, as can units like Cuan, Fury. and even Dew.

Edited by General Horace
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Rescue!Leaf is available only from Ch.10 onwards unless you get both Ethlin and Aideen/Fury [which is pretty unrealistic]. Rescue also generally doesn't save more turns than Dancers do and it's pretty much nonexistent in a draft. So while it may shave off some ~4 turns per chapter that's the same that a dancer saves ... except they did it in pretty much every chapter for the whole game.

Dew, Fury, Cuan, Midir, Fin ... they all save turns in gen 1 as do a lot of units in gen 2. But there's no way you will get a combination of units that allows you to keep up with somebody who picked Sylvia.

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You can have rescue Leaf as early as chapter 8/9 depending on if you have Nanna (unlikely) if you pass down the rescue staff to Lana with Aideen/Claude.

You're definately underestimating the power of Leaf (not to mention Ethlin also saves turns in gen 1 too, with mounted rescue), along with other units that use staves to save turns. Sylvia and Laylea are definately strong picks, but I've never felt like they've been autowin and i've done a ton of fe4 drafts.

If you'd like i'd be willing to make a draft with the above ruleset and not pick a dancer myself just to show that they aren't needed to have a competitive turncount.

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I don't actually have a problem with Laylea at all. She's pretty balanced.

I just think that Sylvia + Leen [who's able to insta afford Knight Ring + Leg Ring through inheritance] save more turns over the course of the run than any other unit can and unless a player can get a combination of like Ethlin + Laylea or Lachesis + Aideen + Azel [which I all consider to be very unlikely] then I don't see how individual turns saved by individual units can add up to the same amount as Sylvia and Leen contribute.

Definitely willing to test it out in an actual draft with 'your' rules though it really depends on every player making the 'correct' calls on which units to pick. In the current draft I'm running I got both Sylvia and Lachesis because people chose Aira and Briggid as their round 1 pick. So if we wanna test it we have to make sure something like that won't happen.

Edited by Yojinbo
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