ruadath Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 Is it impossible to reset Erk's AI in vanilla HHM, like you would in LM? IIRC, he doesn't spawn until the chapters begins, but if he spawns before the chapter begins, you could theoretically reset it. Or does he have to be considered a playable unit first? Even if this were possible, it would probably be a bad idea, because then he would likely kill the enemy knight or one of the northern central soldiers on his ally phase, which makes it impossible to reach the brigand reinforcement on turn 2 (he stays on the peak). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) I think you need the attack after the EP since the Brigand can't reach Erk, but I forgot if Brigands can move one or two tiles on peaks (I think one?), and if it's the former, I'm sure you need him to have NPC status on turn 3. If you look at the screenshot I posted the second bandit only needs to cross a mountain tile and a plains tile, so he'll get to Erk without any problems. EDIT: On the other hand, I think this probably means that Erk has to crit both bandits... which kind of defeats the purpose of making this more reliable... Edited November 11, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Since I forgot to respond to this earlier Just saying that the 3-turn without recruiting Erk makes Priscilla impossible to recruit, idk how much you care to. I definitely DO care about this, because I doubt that Serra + possibly Lucius can outweigh Dorcas+Bartre+Guy+Raven's contribution to EXP and reach the Kenneth map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I think you also need to train a mounted user of Rescue/Warp; at least that's what Horace did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 And fwiw Lapogne uses Boots!Priscilla, which I think is pretty legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 Another problem with the Lowen rescues Erk strategy is that Lowen can't get rid of the armored knight who moves up along that path (since Marcus isn't allowed to move that far forward on the first turn). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Actual thoughts about the topic itself: A bandit on a peak is pretty dodgy for that point in the game. You'll either have to rely on an Erk crit or Erk somehow doubling at a very questionable hit rate (not even sure if the latter is possible). I think that violates your criteria of "easy to replicate". For what I came for: Please utilize the edit button instead of double-posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 Actual thoughts about the topic itself: A bandit on a peak is pretty dodgy for that point in the game. You'll either have to rely on an Erk crit or Erk somehow doubling at a very questionable hit rate (not even sure if the latter is possible). I think that violates your criteria of "easy to replicate". The bandit won't be on a peak; he'll be on a forest. Look at my screenshot on the first page. For what I came for: Please utilize the edit button instead of double-posting. Sorry! Will do in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Alright, so let me take the time to summarize everything I've learned from my analysis/testing of this chapter into one concise post for a general strategy that can perhaps be refined further. I'd really like to see this 3-turn clear effected, even if it is unreliable (though of course I would like to optimize this as much as possible 1) Marcus needs to take out Erik on EP2, probably with a Silver Lance, and needs to proc Spd on the level up he gets after doing so. It would be preferable (though not necessary) if he dodged the Horseslayer too, since it hits him for quite a bit of damage and he needs some health for the final turn, when he takes care of the westmost cavaliers/nomad with a Javelin. 2) We can't afford to kill the 2 northern central soldiers until EP2. Therefore Marcus has to limit his movement on the first turn and not charge all the way forward. In particular, I have found that the ideal (perhaps only good) location to place Marcus far enough back and not have the enemies clog his path up is the tile west of the forest (and two east of a merc). It remains to be seen whether or not it is necessary to equip Marcus with a Javelin here, though it certainly helps out Dorcas/Bartre, Matthew/Hector, and whoever else will form the "clean up crew" that takes care of this group of enemies if he kills one of the mercs and the archers on the first turn. 3) The two southern cavs have to get killed on the final turn by Killing Edge crits from Guy, which means he needs to pretty much fullmove every turn to reach there in time. Since Marcus doesn't get a chance to kill all of the enemies along the way, we need our "clean up crew" to make sure he has a path to follow. EDIT: Guy needs to have gained a Spd proc before turn 3, so that he can double the last pirate with the Killing Edge (otherwise he needs a third critical) 4) At the north end of the map, the enemy soldier needs to die on the first turn (player phase). Usually I would let Rebecca+Eliwood take care of this, but it might end up being better to send a single unit (i.e. Bartre) to get him so that I have more manpower down in the south. Serra starts forward and recruits Erk by turn 2. Lowen and Bartre need to move forward to accompany Erk when possible. 5) Ok so this point describes Erk's task, and is the trickiest. Since Marcus doesn't move forward all the way, the enemy armored knight starts going after Erk (moves onto the forest west of the house on turn 1). Erk needs to move right up to him but NOT ATTACK him on turn 2, since killing him before EP2 messes up the AI order for the brigand reinforcements. So instead, we need Erk to dodge his attack on the EP phase, hit him twice to kill him, dodge one of the myrmidon's attacks and hit the myrmidon. This will be tough to rig, but hopefully not too bad. Then on turn 3, Bartre finishes the myrmidon (Hand axe?). If we can get a second Javelin from Chapter 13, Lowen can then attack the brigand from afar, which hopefully allows Erk to kill him from up close with a regular Thunder hit. Depending on how things work out, Serra may be able to heal him before, so that means I can rig only the crit (and Guy's two KE crits) on the last enemy phase which hopefully should be achievable (along with Marcus landing some shaky Javelin hits as well). So let me know what you guys think, and suggest improvements etc. Also I realized this late, but I think Bartre's job can be given to Hector instead, not sure. Also Lowen can carry one of Bartre/Hector or Serra forward to help with transport/logistics issues since none of them have anything to do until turn 3 anyway. EDIT: Actually, upon further thought, it becomes even less clear that the whole Erk getting blown to pieces is an issue in the first place, since Lowen can just carry Hector forward during the first 2 turns. Wolf Beil!Hector has I think the same chance of critting as Thunder!Erk, and is significantly more tanky, not to mention he can probably kill things more easily than Erk can too. Then Erk is free to play the role of a range attacker, which probably means that I don't need a second Javelin for Lowen as well. This could be an interesting line of strategy to pursue. Edited November 21, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Just a quick update here: I've been (and will continue to be) busy with stuff, so progress has been slow but I have confirmed that the 3-turn clear is in fact possible by carrying out for myself. I do have a reasonable amount of work to do concerning optimization and EXP distribution, so I don't expect to have a video up for some time, but I just wanted to let you guys know that a preliminary version of the clear has been completed. Edited November 18, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) So, a strange question came up... and let me ask for your opinion: As you guys, know I'm aiming to minimize large slews of RN burns in this playthrough. And as I have stated before regarding the strategy for the 3 turn clear of this chapter, Marcus needs to proc Spd on his level. Based on the way the RNG is set up, there are pretty much only two choices I can make for how he gets his level. - dodges Erik's attack, gets +Str, +Spd, +Def, requires ZERO RN burns - gets hit by Erik's attack, only gets +Spd, requires ~15-20 RN burns The first option clearly seems superior... however, it requires me to use the Secret Book I got from Chapter 12 on Marcus during the preparations phase (and no, in case you are wondering, restarting the playthrough and changing the tactician affinity to Ice falls just short of achieving the same effect... plus IIRC Hector might have needed the Thunder affinity bonus during Chapter 12, though I'm not sure). So do you think the extra stat gains on Marcus are worth using up the Secret Book? Normally I would say that this is obviously not the case, but there could be scenarios in future chapters where having that extra point of Str could make the difference between being able to ORKO a boss and not; an extra point of Def is especially useful on someone like Marcus who takes a lot of hits during chapters and thus gains durability for perhaps an extra hit with each point of Def. I should note that the 3 turn clear can be effected (I think) regardless of which option is chosen, though I believe that the first option also allow me to gain slightly more EXP due to not having to worry about Marcus dying on the last turn. EDIT: Never mind, I seem to have figured a way around this dilemma. Edited November 21, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Video is now available! Let me know what you think! Comments/feedback/suggestions are welcome! EDIT: video quality issue again... I will try to fix ASAP. Fixed! Edited November 21, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I bet Cog of Destiny can be 3-turned too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Jesus christ on a bike dude. Good fucking game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 Jesus christ on a bike dude. I assume your talking about Marcus here? Lol Got to give Guy credit too. Some essential dodges and Killing Edge crits there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I was surprised a single crit OHKOs a cav... What about Hector's speed, aren't you going to want it to be higher ASAP? Or is this just a demonstration and not the full run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) I was surprised a single crit OHKOs a cav... What about Hector's speed, aren't you going to want it to be higher ASAP? Or is this just a demonstration and not the full run? I do want it to be higher, but honestly, there's not too much I can do to change the run... (without spending a lot of time burning RNs, etc.) In particular, there are a lot of other things that need to work out correctly on that enemy phase, including Marcus' level, Eliwood getting some lucky dodges, Guy getting some dodges and a crit, etc. I value Marcus' level over Hector so I decided to stick with what ended up working. At this point, Hector's pretty far behind on Spd already, so some procs are only going to help him avoid getting doubled by fast enemies; I think he is out of contention for being a doubling powerhouse... at least until late game. It's actually kind of refreshing to play the game this way, since I'm not getting HP+Str/Mag+Spd procs on all my units every level, which should make things more interesting and fun later on. I was surprised a single crit OHKOs a cav... Thankfully, Guy does double the cavs regardless, he just happened to nail a crit on the first time both times. Edited November 21, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 How necessary is that mid-level Speed proc by Marcus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 The speed proc is required because Marcus can't double some of the mounted units on the next enemy phases without it. Specifically, I think he can't ORKO the Nomad without a speed proc. I bet Cog of Destiny can be 3-turned too! I've tried it and I couldn't find a way. The closest I got to it was using Boots!Priscilla, give her a little boost with the rescue staff and then have her rampage through the center of the map up to Linus. Some of the Valkyries/Sages are so far up north though that you don't really have a way to get them in your reach in time. The only option that could work out that I hadn't thought of at that time was trying to Berserk one of them but idk if that can actually make a difference. I kinda doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 The speed proc is required because Marcus can't double some of the mounted units on the next enemy phases without it. Specifically, I think he can't ORKO the Nomad without a speed proc. Yeah, this exactly. Also, a few of the cavs have 8 Spd as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 4-turn clears of CoD seem to use Ninian's dance for things other than advancing further. Perhaps one could obtain the Warp staff really early (on turn 2? idk), retrieve it from Merlinus and then use it to send more units to the distant corners of the map and/or to kill enemies that will not kill themselves on your units on EP. I mean, there are so many superfluous Warp uses in this game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 I made an attempt to try and improve the run, which seemed to be going significantly better until the end, when several instances of bad luck (including the much aggrieved "everything going to plan but enemy reinforcement procs different stats" curse) cut into my gains. Anyway here is the summary of the differences in terms of pros and cons: = same amount of EXP (was looking to be much higher at first, then had to cut back at end) + saved about 300G in funds, primarily through some of Killing Edge uses and 1 Javelin use (and actually a Wolf Beil use too!) + Guy got a much better first level up, but his second level up was poor so that net he has 1 extra Luck and Res + Rebecca got a solid offensive level (+ Hp and Str, -Luck) + Eliwood got slightly more EXP - Bartre got a slightly worse level (-Spd +Skl) - Serra healed one less time - Lowen didn't get a chance to level up (and it's pretty difficult to find levels for him that involve Str/Spd/Def, so I'll be pressured in Chapter 15) - Matthew leveled up but got a poor level - had to burn roughly 10 more RNs at the end of playthrough ? Dorcas didn't level Overall, the benefits don't really seem to outweigh the costs by much (if at all) so I don't think I'm going to use this... if only that brigand didn't proc an extra point of Def :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 By the way, in case any of you guys are wondering what a "safer," less RNG-dependent (though you still need the critical) way to get through this chapter is (at the cost of EXP), which I did when I performed the original clear (nor recorded): - Let Oswin handle the eastern enemies instead of Bartre since he won't die. - then you have Dorcas and Bartre available to block off the soldiers, instead of having all of them poke at Eliwood/Matthew. - Guy should use a Vulnerary before he goes up against the final pair of cavs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Sword Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 If Hector had gotten more speed procs, would he have been able to double the brigands? Or is that not possible even if he had proced speed every level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruadath Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) If Hector had gotten more speed procs, would he have been able to double the brigands? Or is that not possible even if he had proced speed every level? If he got Speed every level, then yes. But recall that he must get at least one level without Spd from the last turn of Chapter 12 (unless you want to burn ~100 of RNs for him to crit kill Zagan), so he doesn't have a shot of doubling them. Edited November 22, 2015 by ruadath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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