Unit Practicality Thread

[Shadow Mir]

You know in this case you wouldn't probably even care of using Jakob to kill people but to support avatar all the time.

There in game are some best party-up fodders, one of them is first servant, other is Charlotte in most of pairings, other one is Rinkah with her class.

If you want to go this way, you wouldn't probably even care of Jakob taking kills but give it for someone who actually need it.

Those that are best as pair-up fodder are also those that I'm most likely to leave on the bench in favor of fielding someone else, as I see it.

[Tooru]

Fred's growths: 65 str/50 spd/55 def

Jakob's growths as a GK: 55 str/40 spd/45 def

Granted, Jakob exists in a game with tamer average growths all-around, but I don't see what you're trying to say.

Jakob doesn't need a single Arms Scroll. You reclass him right away (because Buttler is a bad class), use bronze [whatever], then in a couple maps iron and 1-2 range, then steel. Shortly he'll be OHKOing frail units with steel, then OHKOing the same units with 1-2 range and OHKOing bulkier foes with steel. Paladin/GK bases mean you won't notice any decrease in damage compared to your best units at the same time (Jakob with a bronze weapon outdamages Silas attacking with iron). He doesn't really faceroll Nohr Lunatic but you can rely on him in a pinch when you realise you've just been fucked by its glorious map design.

Butler Jakob ORKO most mid game enemies as well, and that doesn't require any training.

[Mango Giamatti]

More STR to make up for not having Berserker Harold for a husband? Why have speed when you one shot everything anyway? But even then, Great Knight is much more efficient. Plus 1 movement + Horse is much better, and once again, beast weapons arent as apparent.

General has one more point of strength than Great Knight. You'll do more damage with Elbow Room. With Elbow Room you actually do the same damage as Arthur!Effie (berserker Arthur only gives three more strength than paladin Silas), but I suppose it does make it more difficult to activate her personal skill.

[Wayward Alchemist]

Defensive Formation is unnecessary, yes, but she doesn't have to use it. Her Skl is bad, and GK has one of the lowest Skl caps in the game, and with dodgy enemies like Ninjas and Samurai milling about, General's much higher Skl is preferable. She could swing through GK for Luna and Elbow Room, but otherwise she's better off as a General since Silas will be hauling her around on an 8 Mov Horse anyways. Also would the resulting Sophie want to go with Pally or Hero? Luna/Aegis + Sol + the highest class Skl cap in the game sounds like an enticing argument for Hero, but dat 8 Move.

Edited February 14, 2016 by JothTheConqueror

[Tooru]

Defensive Formation is unnecessary, yes, but she doesn't have to use it. Her Skl is bad, and GK has one of the lowest Skl caps in the game, and with dodgy enemies like Ninjas and Samurai milling about, General's much higher Skl is preferable. She could swing through GK for Luna and Elbow Room, but otherwise she's better off as a General since Silas will be hauling her around on an 8 Mov Horse anyways. Also would the resulting Sophie want to go with Pally or Hero? Luna/Aegis + Sol + the highest class Skl cap in the game sounds like an enticing argument for Hero, but dat 8 Move.

Low Skl cap doesn't matter because Effie is not going to hit cap. General just have 1 more base Skl than GK and 5% more growth.

Dodgy enemies are fast enemies so they will double Effie, even when Effie is not using a Javelin.

GK Effie is not going to deal with these enemies, and that is why "Defensive Formation is unnecessary".

General has the ability to do something GK can never manage to do, but this doesn't make General good.

Actually, somebody may call this "unnecessary", "not worth" or whatever, and as a conclusion: "bad".

[Espinosa]

Why make Effie a general? She's fast enough not to get doubled by most enemies, so defensive formation is unnecessary. Plus, as a Great Knight she'll learn Elbow Room and Shelter (open assault and rescue) since she's married to Silas.

Will she really learn those skills without any seals once married?

[Mango Giamatti]

Will she really learn those skills without any seals once married?

Being honest, I've never done it, but I've heard of Selena gaining Fighter skills as a Hero after marrying Arthur, so the same should apply here.

[Byleth]

Will she really learn those skills without any seals once married?

if she is on the class that shared the same promotion with her husband, then yeah she will (in this case Hero class).

[Wayward Alchemist]

I haven't heard anything about Revelations. Is there any Corrin build in particular that works especially well in that path, or units that stick out there because of bases/availability?

Edited February 14, 2016 by JothTheConqueror

[Espinosa]

You can buy from both Hoshido and Nohr shops so it's possible to promote both Corrin AND Jakob early, and it's possible to use all of your Nohr and Hoshido builds and strategies (as well as mix things up).

Units that stick out in Revelation would be Kagero and Hayato. Camilla and Reina are still as useful as ever.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Espinosa

[Wayward Alchemist]

Hayato? Are his bases pumped or something, or is it just his joining time making him more of a Lugh or Erk than a Ricken?

[Espinosa]

He's just your best tome user other than MU in Revelation. Availability, base stats and level all work towards this.

[PhoenixX]

Hayato? Are his bases pumped or something, or is it just his joining time making him more of a Lugh or Erk than a Ricken?

He is boosted by 8 levels with and only joins one chapter later then he does in Hoshido. Basically he goes from terrible to amazing.

Edited February 14, 2016 by PhoenixX

[astrophys]

To what extent should I dump stat boosters onto Corrin/the Avatar in Birthright over any other characters? Naturally, he doesn't have exclusive claim to them, but he is your lord and you're always going to be using him….

Not counting paralogues, this is a list of stat boosters in Hoshido that has been provided to me by other users… it may or may not be a complete list. It doesn't count the ones in the level 3 shop, so there is potentially an extra one of each, but at a steep gold cost.

Shared:

Chapter 4 - Goddess Icon - Visit Houses

Hoshido:

Chapter 7 - Seraph Robe - Chest

Chapter 8 - Secret Book - Dropped

Chapter 9 - Speed Wing - Chest

Chapter 11 - Arms Scroll - Dropped

Chapter 12 - Dracoshield - Chest

Chapter 13 - Spirit Dust - Visit Houses

Chapter 13 - Talisman - Visit Houses

Chapter 15 - Speedwing - Dropped

Chapter 15 - Spirit Dust - Dropped

Chapter 15 - Secret Book - Dropped

Chapter 16 - Arms Scroll - Chest

Chapter 20 - Seraph Robe - Chest

Chapter 20 - Boots - Chest

Chapter 20 - Goddess Icon - Dropped

Chapter 22 - Dracoshield - Dropped

Chapter 23 - Talisman - Dropped

Chapter 25 - Boots - Chest

For example, if I'm running a Dark Knight Avatar (or rather, planning too), should I dump the two Speedwings (Ch. 9 and Ch. 15) and the two Spirit Dusts (Ch. 13 and Ch. 15) onto him? Oh, and I'd also be giving him the two Goddess Icons (Ch.4, Ch. 20) to help his luck stat if going +MAG/-LCK.

Is this a good idea, or are there other characters who would produce a far better result if I gave these resources to them instead?

Technically, there are the Dragon Grasses or whatever they're called that give +1 to all stats, but I'm trying to only consider things available in Birthright alone (even though I'll have the SE) so that anyone else reading this will be able to make use of this advice even if they only have one route….

[Wayward Alchemist]

It depends on if he needs them (obviously). He should be fine. A +Mag DK will have a 55% Spd growth. We also have to account for time spent as Nohr Prince and DM, where he has a 60% growth. If you are struggling with Spd just switch him over to Nohrian Noble for 65% growth. Save your Speedwings for dire Spd emergencies. As for Mag, unless the game hates you like no other, there is no chance you will need Spirit Dusts: he'll have a 65% growth as a DM and 55% as a DK.

[CocoaGalaxy]

Goddess Icons don't really matter, give them to whoever you feel needs it.

The more sensitive ones would probably be Str/Mag, depending on your spec, maybe some rng factor, and the difficulty.

Dracoshield, Seraph Robe are both extremely important, the boots are really just a bonus.

Speedwings only really matter if there are speed issues.

I'm also not sure exactly how much Str/Mag you'll be using, and weapon ranks, etc

I'd do a step by step analysis but it's prone to lots of complications, so the only advice i have is the general advice for stat boosters

Use them on whoever you want.

It also depends on the rest of the army formation and how much you want to use the characters, stats aren't everything that is

That being said, seeing as it's Hoshido, it may depend on your plans for the other characters, but magic is kind of eh, so I guess you could say that dumping the spirit dusts on corrin would still be ok.

Edited February 14, 2016 by CocoaGalaxy

[lysander]

Depends on who else you're using and what you want your MU to be killing for any given chapter. And what growths proc. Basically, you'll know when you start playing. Keep in mind that Nohr Prince(ss) isn't exactly a fast base class to begin with--even if you swapped to Dark Mage line before promotion you're only losing 2 base speed and the growth is the same. Yato gives speed in Birthright. Samurai and Ninja and Sky Knights are really fast, but most other things are not.

Even if you stayed in Nohr Prince(ss) until promotion his magic should be more than fine as a DK. As for speed, if your MU's speed is struggling so is Scarlet's, Oboro's, etc.

[PhoenixX]

I'm planning on marrying Rinkah for my first play-through of Birthright. I've concluded that Fighter->Berserker is probably the best class path for her considering it helps her HP problem and slightly helps her HP and Str growths. It lowers her Def growth by 20% which kind of sucks but I think HP+Str > Def. My question is, When should I reclass her and should I keep her in Berserker or get the good skills and go to Oni Chieftain?

Edited February 15, 2016 by PhoenixX

[Tooru]

I'm planning on marrying Rinkah for my first play-through of Birthright. I've concluded that Fighter->Berserker is probably the best class path for her considering it helps her HP problem and slightly helps her HP and Str growths. It lowers her Def growth by 20% which kind of sucks but I think HP+Str > Def. My question is, When should I reclass her and should I keep her in Berserker or get the good skills and go to Oni Chieftain?

What she actually gets from Berserker is Skl.

Fighter -> Hero(get Sol) -> Oni Chieftain (get Ogre Strike) -> Berserker

Or Oni Chieftain (get Ogre Strike) -> Berserker

[XeKr]

When the DV is triggered, Gunter and Jakob cross the bridge and start slaying enemies on the same turn. On HM, there is a high likelihood of both the enemies dying by the time turn 4 is over. On Lunatic, somebody might want to KO the archer straggler in a 5-turn strat. 6-turning is not an accomplishment for such an easy map at all, as the stat benchmark requirements and the reliability are both fairly meek as far as efficiency is concerned. The boss might make ironmanning the map efficiently difficult, but he's not the only one by any means, and that's a topic for another discussion entirely.

In a 5-turn strat, anyone can kill the boss really. Gunter may want to do the EP tanking, but if you're keen on emerging with the strongest MU you will want Kamui to do everything.

Surviving the C4 DV isn't guaranteed to any build. If you're rigging levelups compulsively, the fact that your asset gave you +1 def at base will be forgotten very soon, though in itself having an extra point of def could well be the difference between a dead MU and a living one, and not only on that particular turn. You most probably want Kaze and not Rinkah as a pair-up partner to double the nosferatu mooks even with a +spd asset and full spd levelups by that point.

Hey, Neimi is helpful in Girls Only LTC! The reference is still applicable.

So let’s assume everything pre-boss is near 100%. Say our characters each have a ~70% (true) chance to hit the boss, and 3 need to hit (someone needs attack stance iirc). That’s around 34.3% success in 5 turns or death. Alternatively, say Corrin/Gunter needs to hit 2 of 3 at 70% when paired. So 0.3*.49+0.7*0.91 (if first miss, need 2 hits, if first hits, need at least 1 hit in 2 attempts) = 78.4% success in 6 turns or try again after healing. If the raw numbers/premise are wrong, fair enough, but these efficiencies in the given conditions are comparable to me. Tbh one could arguably prefer the latter as expected turn count is around 14.58ish vs 7.65ish, so the latter is nearly twice as fast on average. (ignoring low percentage 7+ turns for simplicity. It doesn’t seem close enough to calc.) Taking into account Jakob +Str proc (1 point in 2 levels) brings it to 22% CoS (there’s the matter of fixed levels and so on, but eh).

+Hp/Def are relatively insignificant in terms of base stats, true, but the hard turnshave in C1 probably means really dedicated players will take them regardless. of course, they’ll probably also use Strategist!Felicia and dodge everything. I’m also speculating, in a broader sense, it increases the overall chances of survival in C4.

but fwiw, I’m increasingly a fan of reclassing Jakob first. Especially in Birthright, where GK!Jakob has some of the best, more reliable combat for a while. Best durability early, Flight+Spd pair ups that he wants, plus can get some ohkos on Ninja/Mages/Priests. Ninja/Dark Mage/Diviner have some nice 1-2 range options but mediocre bases and 3 mt weapons to start. In Nohr, +Spd Corrin with GK!Jakob is 6 move and can steamroll some stuff with Yato (avoiding seals/poison) and +7 def Guard Stance. Or +Mag dragonstone ohkos stuff with +9 def between stone+Jakob attack stance. Or using Jakob as the combat unit, ofc, quite high base Str/Def especially with Mysterious Appeal. It also gives you time to pick up Dragon Fang which can help greatly on some lategame bosses.

Reposting this because I just edited it into another post:

If Dwyer is the product of a +Str -Mag Corrin, would Cavalier be to slow? His mother is a Elite Ninja and so Kanna will be, too, so they won't have this problem, but Dwyer doesn't inherit Ninja... This is in Hoshido so I suppose he could A+ Asugi for Ninja but that seems too time consuming. However he could just marry/be besties with someone who gives some Spd.

It’s probably okay. 47.5% growth in Cav with at least 11 base. Also +1 from Hoshido weapons or more from the Quick-Draw katana. Dwyer is always going to need a good bit of investment because of his (lack of) weapon ranks, and he doesn’t have any outstanding bases, growths, or skills. Most interesting might be Tomebreaker inheritance on a classically physical class like GK though Jakob can do that himself too (does take a little while to get, but at least it’s not endgame late).

[Wayward Alchemist]

What would be the best class for a +Mag -Lck Felicia!Kanna in Nohr? Corrin will be the +Mag -Lck Cav, and I've heard that you want to Reclass to Cav right away, so Corrin can't really pass her any class because Cav doesn't suit her Growths. She could just go with Maid and use the Explosive Shuriken, but that's her mom's thing. I fear that Strategist would be too squishy with Kanna's 25% Def growth. Nohr Noble has Tomes but they're only B rank and it isn't the best for her because her Str takes a serious hit from Felicia's 15% growth. I'm just really not sure what to do with her.

Edited February 16, 2016 by JothTheConqueror

[XeKr]

True/Dragonstone is a niche for emergency ohkos/tanking, and she can use some Levin Sword+utility weapons (Armorslayer, Wyrmslayer, Lightning). The only really special thing Felicia!Kanna has is she can be recruited early, in an unique class (if Corrin is reclassed), but as you’ve noted her growths don’t scale that well to later. Usually the children in the maingame are nice fillers if spots are free or others are rng-screwed, but that's one of the sacrifices of marrying Felicia. Could always forgo that 1 Spd/Res in Guard Stance and marry someone else too.

Strategist or such is fine, the class will be squishy regardless. But you do already have Elise and Felicia herself can make a decent one since she gets Battle Command way earlier.

Edited February 17, 2016 by XeKr

[Duke of Dozel]

Felicia!Kanna isnt THAT bad.

35 23 33 35 43 50 20 30 Base Growth

HP:50% STR:38% MAG:43% SKL:45% SPD:53% LUK:60% DEF:30% RES:35% as a Nohr Princess.

She's easy to get, joins early, and can boast prepromote skills from the maid class or other. Not very optimal, but still works.

[Respite&Nepenthe]

What do you think of Xander!Kana? It's non-negotiable that I intend to breed with him on my Revelations and Conquest playthroughs, but I'm unsure how to flesh out my avatar for this. Would it be best to focus on optimizing my avatar and Xander, or our potential children (as in, which have more potential in this arrangement, and which are better units)? I'm thinking a +Spd, -Def avatar with Samurai as my secondary, but this could easily be subject to change. Do you have any recommendations or comments?

[Tooru]

Felicia!Kanna isnt THAT bad.

35 23 33 35 43 50 20 30 Base Growth

HP:50% STR:38% MAG:43% SKL:45% SPD:53% LUK:60% DEF:30% RES:35% as a Nohr Princess.

She's easy to get, joins early, and can boast prepromote skills from the maid class or other. Not very optimal, but still works.

Odin: 55%, 45%, 50%, 55%, 45%, 60%, 45%, 30%.