Ryo Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Does someone know how Leon's japanese fanbase is reacting to this? Well, it seems a vocal portion of the fanbase was pissed off, or so I've heard. Though you have to question whether they're pissed because of the incestuous implication, or because their husbando dared to love a woman that is not themselves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboKD001 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 So I did a little research on the Westermarck Effect but I'm not so sure. So the thing is that during the concubine wars, Leon never met the other siblings until somewhere after like 6-7 years old, which is the reason why he had a crush on Camilla, which is known as the Westermarck Effect? They exploded. I guess they must be super salty or something. I don't mind if Leon actually had a crush with someone. heck, it'll make my life easier so i know who to pair him with if i marry someone else in another file. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanima Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 No. And considering that Saizou doesn't really have much of a reaction towards Kaze's defection in Conquest, I highly doubt they would add anything major here either, regardless of whether his death is canon or not. I see, more is the pity then. Remember when Fire Emblem games had these cool alternate scenarios depending on which unit lived and died? And the extra conversations one could have if you pitted family members/friends against each other? You know, things that made replaying the game in different ways worthwhile. I really miss those times. With disc space spread over up to two catridges IntSys has no excuse for not having something minor like this. But I really do not get the outrage over the incest. Sure, destroying the advertised theme of family with Kamui was a stupid thing to do, and it made me mad. But Leon's complex is pretty well hidden for the most part and not focused on in-game at all (it took us this long to finally realize it after all) and really this series has had so much worse. Getting mad about incest itself (yes, the implementation sucks I agree) in an FE game feels a little silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosabers Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I'm just going to pretend it doesn't exist and chalk it up to more random tell don't show characterization. Just like [spoiler=LazwaldXdaughter support] In this support she's shown to be great at getting girls and better than her father at it by a large margin . In her other supports she relentlessly stalks girls and I'm honestly more comfortable with Tharja (and Sylla) than her. At least Tharja doesn't add assault to her list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 But yeah, at this point I'm just too tired to be disappointed or to even care anymore. All in all, FE14 is looking to be very likely my last FE game ;/ The problem is the series has no real competition. The closest thing on the horizon is Vesteria Saga, and thats a free-ware game made in SRPG maker. If there was actual competition in the way of "3DS SRPG", things would definitely shake up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Here's the definition of Westermarck effect from wikipedia: The Westermarck effect, or reverse sexual imprinting, is a hypothetical psychological effect through which people who live in close domestic proximity during the first few years of their lives become desensitized to sexual attraction.[snip] This result suggests that the Westermarck effect operates during the period from birth to the age of six.[1] This would explain why we're not attracted to our siblings or our parents. But it doesn't apply to just siblings or parents. Have a close family friend around your age that you grew up with during childhood? If you saw each other frequently enough, then it's likely that you won't be attracted to them because of Westermarck. If Leon never got interaction with his siblings (including Camilla) because of the concubine wars, then although his mind knows that Camilla is his half-sister and it's wrong, he has not lived in close domestic proximity to her so he is not desensitized to sexual attraction towards her. Doesn't this sound a little bit like Freud? Actually, why don't I just link the Westermarck article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect The problem is the series has no real competition. The closest thing on the horizon is Vesteria Saga, and thats a free-ware game made in SRPG maker. If there was actual competition in the way of "3DS SRPG", things would definitely shake up. It's okay, I've still got Etrian Odyssey. Edited November 30, 2015 by Sunwoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboKD001 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 ooh ok thx. This does sound like something they were going for. If that's the case, it actually make things interesting instead of some random incest, 8X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exizel Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Well, it seems a vocal portion of the fanbase was pissed off, or so I've heard. Though you have to question whether they're pissed because of the incestuous implication, or because their husbando dared to love a woman that is not themselves... Probably both and the fact this happen after the character poll result where most of them voted for him doesn't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Probably both and the fact this happen after the character poll result where most of them voted for him doesn't help. I can just imagine Intelligent Systems justifying even more incest because of this. "Oh, the fanbase really liked Leo, huh? That means they're totally into him wanting to bang his sister, right? Let's focus on a relationship like that in the next installment!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I can just imagine Intelligent Systems justifying even more incest because of this. "Oh, the fanbase really liked Leo, huh? That means they're totally into him wanting to bang his sister, right? Let's focus on a relationship like that in the next installment!" Eh, they seem to have pretty much committed suicide for any Leon-related merch; his die-hard fangirls in the JP fandom who got him to #1are pretty pissed at all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearaby Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Uhhh, does anyone have an actual source to where the fans were raging about Leon? I don't actually spend much time on Japanese forums, but from what I read on 2chan (only about 300 comments worth actually), there was absolutely no explosion whatsoever. Sure, some people were like "Seriously, Leon?" or "The top 3 rankings'll probably change to Marx, Takumi, Joker" or "Some undertones of incest are ok but to be seriously interested in his sister's gross", but there were also plenty of people who plainly didn't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimeanRoyalKnight Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Half brother has a crush on his half sister that he sees as his actual sister, neglects said crush costantly-- BAD! Adoptive brother marries his adoptive sister that he sees as his actual sister-- GOOD, MILLION OF FANARTS, OTP! Hypocrisy... Femui is Leon' sister as much as Camilla and Elise from a family standpoint. What I see here is not indignation towards incest but JEALOUSY because the most popular guy in the game had eyes for someone that isn't Kamui... Leon's love towards Camilla is nothing new under the sun. Just add a cute feather to his head and make him a strategist and everything will make sense. ... that said, except this, are there more interesting info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Party Moth Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 What's sad is that the incest example with Leon could have been used to bolster and explore the family theme of the game, playing with his feelings of alienation and attributing these feelings that come natural to him (and by extension other feelings) as flat out taboo or unwanted. Were this the only example of incest in the game and the general tone of the game not hampered down by fan service and fetishes, the concept could have been tackled in an engaging or even tragic way without flat-out pandering. It's no surprise people are immediately jumping on this realization when the rest of the game's incest is blatant pandering for Kamui. It was something that was present but not really felt enough to articulate, whereas the My Room shenanigans are something very blatant, shameless, and detrimental to the game's themes. Since the former was discovered after the permeating presence of the latter, it's difficult not to associate the two. This game never ceases to amaze with what lost potential lies within. Unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocturnal YL Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I seriously doubt that people are that mad over this, really. And yeah, is there anything else to talk about? Fire Emblem filled with sexual taboos isn't news. The problem is the series has no real competition. The closest thing on the horizon is Vesteria Saga, and thats a free-ware game made in SRPG maker. If there was actual competition in the way of "3DS SRPG", things would definitely shake up. Does PXZ count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty_Handsome Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Uhhh, does anyone have an actual source to where the fans were raging about Leon? I don't actually spend much time on Japanese forums, but from what I read on 2chan (only about 300 comments worth actually), there was absolutely no explosion whatsoever. Sure, some people were like "Seriously, Leon?" or "The top 3 rankings'll probably change to Marx, Takumi, Joker" or "Some undertones of incest are ok but to be seriously interested in his sister's gross", but there were also plenty of people who plainly didn't care. Both male and female fans in the East want "Pure" Waifu/Husbando. It's no surprise here that Leo always lusting for Camilla makes his fans angry as they'll always be "second best". Cordelia only got away with it as she's a cute girl and small bust sizes are in the minority in Awakening. The Otaku could look over that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearaby Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Both male and female fans in the East want "Pure" Waifu/Husbando. It's no surprise here that Leo always lusting for Camilla makes his fans angry as they'll always be "second best". Cordelia only got away with it as she's a cute girl and small bust sizes are in the minority in Awakening. The Otaku could look over that. That's not quite a source, though. If possible, I'd like to really read the comments by the fans. Heck, I'm Asian, I love Leon to bits, but this new piece of info doesn't bother me at all. If anything I think it gives him more depth, but maybe that's just me... Anyway, fans always find things to rage about. Nothing new, just the vocal people make themselves heard. Whether people in generally really are raging though, can't quite tell. Which is why I want a source to see for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minischew Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 What I find weird is that if the Westermarck effect can be used to justify Leo's crush, then shouldn't Silas/Kamui technically not work, since they always hung out with each other when they were young? (Or at least, on Silas's part. I know Kamui forgot about him entirely for a while, lmao.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Does PXZ count? Eh, I wouldn't say so: it's a crossover with a fair few obscure Japanese IPs and was very much love it or hate it, while critically being almost straight 6's and not doing anywhere close to Awakening's numbers. ... that said, except this, are there more interesting info? That the books title sounds like a political statement; reviews are making it sound like the correct name is "Celebrating 25 years of series history, but mostly celebrating the last 3". Edited November 30, 2015 by The DanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyanko Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I'm curious what they put about Marx. Hope it's not anything too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abvora Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) @Minischew: They hung out, but for a couple of reasons they were probably never affected by the Westermarck effect. One, the Westermarck effect primarily occurs among people raised together from babyhood to six, and while I don't think the game says how old Corrin was when they were kidnapped, they were probably in the five-six range, going off other game information (Elise wasn't born yet, Elise is twelve-ish, Corrin is probably eighteen, ergo Corrin is about six years older than her). So by the time they met Silas, they'd have passed the threshold for the Westermarck effect to kick in. Two, Garon ordered them separated and they weren't reunited until some years later, which would have further reduced the chances for the Westermarck effect. And three, while they were best friends, they weren't actually raised together (which doesn't always stop the Westermarck effect, but combined with the other two factors it means the odds of them being affected by it would have been very low). Edited November 30, 2015 by Abvora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Respite&Nepenthe Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I'm curious what they put about Marx. Hope it's not anything too bad.Agreed. I've been thinking the same thing.It'd pretty difficult to ruin his character for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimeanRoyalKnight Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I hope it's not anything among the lines of "The inspiration for Marx' character was Camus". I'd love to know more about his insecurities. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blinkingbrave Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Um... Well, based on the profile layout of Leon's page (and assuming they use the same generic profile format for everyone), it'll probably touch on his insecurities, instead of an obligatory Camus shout out. Leon's was split up a block for personality, a block for opinion/attitude towards his enemy, and a block split into lil subgroups on his opinion of each of the people he has a prior relationship with, so a lil blurb on his thoughts towards Garon, then one each for every Nohr sibling (this is where the quote about Camilla came from), and another two for his retainers (Edit: And one for his son, though it just says 'son,' and another for Kamui). I imagine Marx's will be something similar. Anyways, I doubt Marx's will hold any bombshells. It's the base info they used to write all the dialogue/supports, after all, so if there's nothing in the writing to suggest he's got some weird secret, there's not likely to be anything scandalous on his page. And based on his writing in game, if he were to have a canon secret love interest, a la Leon, the best candidate for closeted romantic feelings seems to be Kamui. Who can be a guy or a girl. And IS isn't terribly progressive. So... he's probably safe there, particularly. Though I certainly wouldn't mind being proved wrong. Edited November 30, 2015 by blinkingbrave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyanko Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Agreed. I've been thinking the same thing. It'd pretty difficult to ruin his character for me... Yep. There's really nothing they can say about any of my favorites that will make me dislike them at this point, especially Marx. I'm just hoping to find out something interesting about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frelia Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Pretty much, yeah. Leon can't S-support Camilla, no matter what, and he wouldn't be the first person in Fire Emblem (even if we exclude the rest of Fates) to have incestual undertones with a sibling. Leon's crush on Camilla is probably the least scandalous and/or creepy incest-related thing in this game. It's just that there's so much incest and pseudo-incest here already that you have to wonder WTF anyone who worked on this game was even on. Yeah same. Compared to the other incest going on in this game Leon's feelings for Camilla don't bother me. Leon's passing on an old FE tradition and unlike the other incest in the game his feelings for his older sister will never have a chance to go past a certain point. There is so much incest and pseudo incest going on it's gotten ridiculous. It feels like the writers of this game skipped writing classes because there is so much potential lost with this game that it's not even funny. Instead of all of this incest I would have liked to see Leon's feelings for Camilla get explored some especially in the Nohr and IK routes. With Marx I won't be surprised by anything at this point. I would love to see how FE15 turns out :p With the way things are going FE15 has a chance to have more fun and games including more incest, more skinship, and more messy stories. :p Edited November 30, 2015 by Frelia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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