Help making Hinata more... usable?

[Tooru]

Unless the game includes premade NPC My Castles to browse, that doesn't change the part where not everyone has access to them - not everyone has easy WiFi or Streetpass access.

"Not everyone" != "no one"

Why can't we mention them since there are players who have access?

We are talking about how to use make a bad unit usable. It is bad so of course "not everyone" will use it.

I don't think we need to consider "everyone".

Edited December 4, 2015 by Tooru

[Skarthe]

"Not everyone" != "no one"

Why can't we mention them since there are players who have access?

Who said you can't mention them? When giving strategies to other players, it's usually better to give a strategy that all players can use, but no one's forbidding discussion of other strategies.

[Tooru]

Who said you can't mention them? When giving strategies to other players, it's usually better to give a strategy that all players can use, but no one's forbidding discussion of other strategies.

Then who said giving "a strategy that all players can use" isn't better? But bad units don't have so many better strategies because they are bad!

Edited December 4, 2015 by Tooru

[Ownagepuffs]

Then who said giving "a strategy that all players can use" isn't better? But bad units don't have so many better strategies because they are bad!

Dial it down a notch. For the purpose of this discussion by "other strategies" we mean things like dlc or visiting player castles.

Hana needs quite a bit exp to get going and start functioning. Hinata doesn't really need much to function.

I'd like to add that offensive base wise, Hinata is 2 Str/3 Spd above Hana, 6 levels higher and 2.5 (1x) chapters later. Should one be considered to have "really good bases that last most of the game" and the other considered to have "bad bases, needs a ton of favoritism, etc"? I also feel like "you fight unpromoted enemies for a long time" can be used as a defense for any units' faults.

Also, to examine late game enemy composition: C19 is the first time enemies are all promoted but that basically doesn't count because Jank tower. 20 is Faceless. 21 is where enemies are all promoted for real and consists primarily of faster enemies like adventurers, holy bowmen, Trueblade, Heroes, and Lancers. 22 reintroduces unpromoted enemies for some reason but still has it's Maids, Zerks, and Adventurers along with the slower Sorcs/DMs/Fighters. 23 everything is kinda slow except the Bow Knights anyway. 24 has its fair share of armors but it also has Zerks and Heroes. 25 after the initial rush is Maids, Zerks, Heroes, and Generals at the top half. 26 doesn't really matter but it is worth noting that it's mostly fast enemies. 27 on top the initial armor rush has Bow Knights, Heroes, and Zerks as well. The top half is sluggish. Endgame doesn't really matter. Anyway, faster enemy types are common enough to not handwave away in the late game, and even when you're fighting unpromoted scrubs you do have the occasional promoted enemy with them as well.

[CocoaGalaxy]

Speed is a difficult point to talk about in this game, or at least, I find it more so than others.....

For starters, Hoshido is "interesting" in that, difficulty wise, enemies gain paltry stat increases (+2 to 1, maybe 2, stats)...until Chapter 21, where they start getting +3 and/or 5 to stats.

Alas, this doesn't help that much in salvaging Hoshido enemies, at least on a comparative basis (Anything with a lance is still going to whack Hana pretty hard)

For Hinata's case, tanking is pretty difficult in this game to a certain extent, defensive pair ups are pretty much necessary

As is, Hinata's main "salvage" point is that Trueblade's base speed basically contributes quite a bit..but otherwise, it's also dependent on play style

A direct spot analysis of stats is kind of difficult, because levels aside, I'm still not really sure how to account for support bonuses (which may or may not matter).

Skills are more straightforward, guard stance less so, but still somewhat reasonable

There's also the logistical side when it comes to weapons and items

I personally don't find tonics to be a veryyyy uh..."important", thing, but it seems they frequently pop up in these discussions....I'm not sure what to say

(Times like these makes me wish I had compiled a more rigorous list of stats, but oops..besides these things are annoying as pineapple)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uvPG5IV4rhjwzTaK54pNTKCMauHJ9TXa1Sr6GPzA6lc/edit?usp=sharing

Well on the other hand it might be better to have a chapter by chapter analysis of Hinata, but I'm not sure what to say

From what I saw in other playthroughs, Hinata is still acceptable (I think everyone kind of is, for a certain tolerance of acceptable), though as it is, he "possibly" might be outclassed by late game child characters, or so. Again, more play style shenanigans

Offensively speaking, Hinata is...well...I honestly think it's one of his more problematic points, is that he can't ORKO enemies.

Of course, I might be prioritizing this part too much...

(When it comes down to it, it might also come down to "using who", but that seems to be a bit of derail though, oops)

Hinata is basically directly the same in Revelations, I guess? (Is this necessarily about Hoshido though?)

Though, Revelations enemies are statistically stronger (and I guess, more difficult) though

(For anyone who's interested, my source(s) is currently up to H/N16 Lunatic, RE, it's just a matter if I'm bothered to update these [it takes about 30 minutes per map])

Edited December 4, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy

[Ownagepuffs]

Thanks for compiling enemy data. That makes arguing character merits a lot easier. I actually thought enemy stats were the exact same on HM and LM but as it turns out you showed me they have slightly higher HP counts.

[Ownagepuffs]

Accidental double post.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Ownagepuffs

[Barren]

I know that this is an old topic, but could Sakura!Hisame be somehow okay? Like with a Oni Cheiftan build with tomfaire? growths wise he would have 57.5% HP, 55% strength, 40% magic, 40% skill, 50% speed, 40% luck, 50% defense, 25% res. I've read that Setsuna or Hana are the preferred picks. But then I also read CeruleanGamer's pairings on gamefaqs from a long time ago and that Mozu is a good mom for him too. Though he also had other pairings that I didn't consider.