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Shimmerfang

Help making Hinata more... usable?

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I only ask this because I've heard some... less than stellar things from Hinata's performance. This worried me, as he is my planned Hoshido husband [because cute face + softcore bara body]. After some careful consideration, I think I have an idea of what I'll do with him, but I'd like some input.

Firstly, his growth rates: (Sorry about the size...)

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With these growths, he's assured a good strength and defense growth, and meh everything else. This is especially annoying, as his base is a samurai, a speedy class.

My idea was to pick the knight as my MU secondary class, so I could marry seal it off to Hinata. Then, he could get the General skill Defensive formation, assuring he doesn't have to worry about being doubled. In the end, he'd be a weapon master or a blacksmith, depending on whichever would be better.

Any suggestions? Also, what asset/flaw should I pick to optimize Hisame and Kanna? [Also, what hair color makes Hisame not look dumb?]

Edited by The_Unabashed_Weeb

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He's pretty outclasses by Kazahana who has significantly better Strength AND Speed.

But if you are determined to use him, I'd recommend making him a Blacksmith/Weapon Master and pair him up with a Bowman, Lancer or Herb Merchant. He might make a decent great knight as well. Strength Seal (weapon master) would probably compliment a more tanky role (the only thing he's good at). Hisame has balanced and agreeable stats so the mods you give him are up to you.

Hisame looks good with Brown, Dark Blue or Dark Red in my opinion so I'd go with #12, #17 or #30.

[spoiler=Hair colors]

Hisame_Hair_Colors_zpskndq5fix.png

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^Ya, 17 looks the best.

A lot of people have sworn up and down that he makes a good Trueblade, but honestly how much use is a unit that provides good Str and Def to a class with meh Str and bad Def and bad Spd and Skl on a Spd and Skill centric class? You just get a big bundle of mediocrity. I'd say make him a GK or a Blacksmith, like NekoKnight said, because he can function as a much-needed tank and he can abuse Swordfaire as well.

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... But Hosh doesn't need tanks.

Anyway, to use Hinata just give him tonics and a good offensive pair up (Setsuna/Oboro). He's a competent dude. At worst, there is always the quick draw Katana as well for speed.

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... But Hosh doesn't need tanks.

"Need" is a subjective term here. Sure, hyper offense is a viable strategy for some situations but it's also nice to have units like Rinka (yes, even she has uses) who can reliably take a hit and not be ruined afterwards. In my playthrough, Kazahana could barely survive getting one-shotted by enemy Berserkers and the RNG isn't so kind that you can rely on dodge-tanking.

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"Need" is a subjective term here. Sure, hyper offense is a viable strategy for some situations but it's also nice to have units like Rinka (yes, even she has uses) who can reliably take a hit and not be ruined afterwards. In my playthrough, Kazahana could barely survive getting one-shotted by enemy Berserkers and the RNG isn't so kind that you can rely on dodge-tanking.

That is why we have Oboro and Crimson for. Then there are guys like Hinata, Saizou and Baki who are bulky enough and still have good offense. But when you fight unpromoted enemies for a majority of the game, you tend to easily out pace the enemies pretty quickly.

Edited by Shephen

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"Need" is a subjective term here. Sure, hyper offense is a viable strategy for some situations but it's also nice to have units like Rinka (yes, even she has uses) who can reliably take a hit and not be ruined afterwards. In my playthrough, Kazahana could barely survive getting one-shotted by enemy Berserkers and the RNG isn't so kind that you can rely on dodge-tanking.

Are you using everything available to you? Tonics? The kitchen? Crimson's rally defense? Buyable statboosters? If I can get Kaze and Hana to 3RKO status on their averages then so can you.

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That is why we have Oboro and Crimson for. Then there are guys like Hinata, Saizou and Baki who are bulky enough and still have good offense. But when you fight unpromoted enemies for a majority of the game, you tend to easily out pace the enemies pretty quickly.

I didn't say Hinata was the only 'tanky' unit you have, just that he's not as fast or even hard hitting as many others. Hinata is a big ball of mediocrity and you already have a better Samurai by the time you get him.

Here's a side by side look at all those characters HP, Strength, Speed and Defense growths in their base classes.

Oboro: 45 55 55 50

Crimson: 40 60 60 45

Hinata: 65 45 35 45

Saizou: 45 55 50 50

Tsubaki: 55 40 35 45

He's better than Tsubaki so,,, yay?

Are you using everything available to you? Tonics? The kitchen? Crimson's rally defense? Buyable statboosters? If I can get Kaze and Hana to 3RKO status on their averages then so can you.

I'm just looking at their base values. Anyone can receive the benefits you listed but I'd rather boost good units to make them better than salvage bad units. Oboro doesn't need anything to be a wrecking ball.

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His growths are fine and match up with his bases well. He is only a speed tonic away from doubling like 70% of the game just from his base speed and he takes little effort to use. Even in the late game he is still pretty good thanks to most of the enemies being slugs in terms of speed(Generals, Great Knights, Sorcerers, Wyvern Lords) and he doesn't get doubled by the faster stuff as well. Hinata is just plug and play for any chapter really and performs pretty well thanks to his bases and Trueblade bonuses.

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Basically Kazahana has generally better growths and average stats, but it sounds like all people point out about him is his low speed. We could say that Nino is better than Pent just because she has better growths. Which isn't true.

He's good at start and joins early. He's in the fastest class in the game and has a lovely 45% base defense growth and 55% HP. As for bases:

He is only a speed tonic away from doubling like 70% of the game just from his base speed

He's no Ryoma for sure, and Kazahana is a "better myrmidon", but there's something awesome of having a trueblade who can take hits.

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Isn't comparing an Est to a prepromote kind of extreme?

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You really don't know what you're talking about if you consider Hinata a "big ball of mediocrity". 15 base speed and 11 base strength is mediocre? It really isn't when you realize that Hoshido makes you fight unpromoted chumps for a really long time. Just going from averages he can double most enemy types and not get doubled by anything really.

Likewise, Oboro is not a unit that "doesn't need anything". She needs what everyone else needs; a spouse, exp, a forge, and tonics. Ryoma she isn't.

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Isn't comparing an Est to a prepromote kind of extreme?

Depends on the game and characters. No one will doubt that Dolph of all units is less useful than yet another flier with monster growth. However, since Pent is pretty much better than Erk and Nino, despite having better growths, it's clear that not all character's class status make a difference.

Even though it really doesn't apply here since Hinata isn't a prepromote and he joins, like, 2 chapters after Hana. Better bases and just enough growths to keep him handy till the end.

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Fair enough. I found Hinata underwhelming but if people found a niche for him, props to them.

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That's kind of his whole point. You really don't need much to beat Hoshido and Hinata delivers if you see him through. Just don't call him bad. He's not Odin or Rinka.

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I'm going have to echo what many have said: he has great bases that carry him for most of Hoshido but he is still generally outclassed. Sure, he's bulkier than Kazahana and can patch up his Speed, but Kazahana can use use DEF or HP tonics and has access to Renewal, so both of them can patch their weaknesses.

he is my planned Hoshido husband [because cute face + softcore bara body]. [Also, what hair color makes Hisame not look dumb?]

These are the important points. I personally like Hisame with platinum to light blonde hair, like Rinkah. Edited by gayserbeam

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That's kind of his whole point. You really don't need much to beat Hoshido and Hinata delivers if you see him through. Just don't call him bad. He's not Odin or Rinka.

Except Rinka has better growths,

Yeah I said it.

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Except Hinata actually has good base stats and an existent weapon rank.

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Rinkah: HP:40, STR:45, MAG:25, SKL:50, SPD:55, LUK:35 DEF:65, RES:20 = 335

Hinata: HP:65, STR:45, MAG:0, SKL:40, SPD:35, LUK:60, DEF:45, RES:25 = 315

If you take out her magic growth she's at 310, which is actually lower than his.

He joins at a level 10 (promote ready), with better bases in every stat, and C rank swords. Rinka has a 2 chapter lead on him not counting the prologue, E(!!) rank axes, and provides great pair up bonuses causing her to just be support most of the time.

It seems pretty wheeny people pick on Hinata so much when all they see is his base speed growth.

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Rinkah: HP:40, STR:45, MAG:25, SKL:50, SPD:55, LUK:35 DEF:65, RES:20 = 335

Hinata: HP:65, STR:45, MAG:0, SKL:40, SPD:35, LUK:60, DEF:45, RES:25 = 315

If you take out her magic growth she's at 310, which is actually lower than his.

He joins at a level 10 (promote ready), with better bases in every stat, and C rank swords. Rinka has a 2 chapter lead on him not counting the prologue, E(!!) rank axes, and provides great pair up bonuses causing her to just be support most of the time.

It seems pretty wheeny people pick on Hinata so much when all they see is his base speed growth.

She still has better growths in the right stats. I don't know if she's better but I don't see how you can argue that he has better growths.

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Rinkah: HP:40, STR:45, MAG:25, SKL:50, SPD:55, LUK:35 DEF:65, RES:20 = 335

Hinata: HP:65, STR:45, MAG:0, SKL:40, SPD:35, LUK:60, DEF:45, RES:25 = 315

If you take out her magic growth she's at 310, which is actually lower than his.

He joins at a level 10 (promote ready), with better bases in every stat, and C rank swords. Rinka has a 2 chapter lead on him not counting the prologue, E(!!) rank axes, and provides great pair up bonuses causing her to just be support most of the time.

It seems pretty wheeny people pick on Hinata so much when all they see is his base speed growth.

Her growths are still better

Her stats are competent for her join time. E rank in clubs is fine, people still use Bronze weapons even at end game. And she has 3 chapters, 4 if you count Hinata's join chapter.

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Ignoring the exp opportunity cost of training Rinka in the prolog, and the fact that Kaze can use her pair up bonuses to be pretty good in chapter 4 and put in an absurd amount of work in chapter 5, and the mages that nearly ohko her in chapter 5, and the feeding Rinka to help her get to D-axes so she can have the standard weapon rank as everyone else, and Hinata's superior weapon rank for his join, and the trueblade passive +10 Crit/Avoid, and the great skills that Trueblade has to offer, and both unit's personals. Then the stat break down looks like this:

Level 10 Savage Rinka: 22.4 Hp, 10.7 Str, 3.5 Mag, 9 Skl, 11.3 Spd, 7.1 Luck, 13.9 Def, 4.2 Res

Base level 10 Hinata: 26 Hp, 11 Str, 0 Mag, 9 Skl, 14 Spd, 10 Luck, 12 Def, 4 Res

So training up Rinka 6 levels(exp that could have gone to Kaze and Kamui), Rinka ends up about the same in everything except she is significantly slower. The Def lead she has over Hinata is offset by her lower hp.

Level 20 Savage Rinka: 26.4 Hp, 15.2 Str, 6 Mag, 14 Skl, 16.8 Spd, 10.6 Luck, 19.9 Def, 6.2 Res

Level 20 Samurai Hinata: 32.5 Hp, 15.5 Str, 0 Mag, 13 Skl, 17.5 Spd, 16 Luck, 16.5 Def, 6.5 Res

Now after leveling both up to level 20, they are still basically the same as at level 10, except Hinata has widened the Hp gap, and lowered the Spd gap. So let us move onto promotions

Level 5 Shura Rinka: 28.6 Hp, 20 Str, 12.2 Mag, 16 Skl, 21 Spd, 12 Luck, 25.5 Def, 8.2 Res

Level 5 Trueblade Hinata: 36.1 Hp, 19.3 Str, 2.2 Mag, 16.6 Skl, 21.9 Spd, 19.4 Luck, 20.3 Def, 9.5 Res

Rinka wants Shura since E Tomes > E Swords. Hinata goes Trueblade for the promo bonuses, skills, and passives. So after promotion and leveling up to their first promoted skill, they now have the same offense, and Rinka's def is still offset by Hinata better Hp.

Level 15 Shura Rinka: 31.6 Hp, 24.5 Str, 15.2 Mag, 21 Skl, 26.5 Spd, 15.5 Luck, 32 Def, 10.7 Res

Level 15 Trueblade Hinata: 42.6 Hp, 23.8 Str, 2.7 Mag, 20.6 Skl, 25.4 Spd, 25.4 Luck, 24.8 Def, 12 Res.

So now we are basically at the end of Hoshido at either chapter 25 or 27, and Rinka has finally overtaken Hinata offensively, but still has a massive Hp deficit. They still do the same thing though at this point which is cleaning up after Ryoma, Kamui, Hinoka, Crimson, Silas, and the Ninjas.

Only thing Rinka has going for her really is her personal skill, but since she is perpetually just a love tap away from getting ohkod by mages, she needs to be way to cautious. But also going against her is that her pair up bonuses are way to good, and are easily better than what she can do as a combat unit so she will never gain much exp. Hinata shows up turn 3 in chapter 9 ready to go with no effort required unlike Rinka

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Def > HP

Let's say rinka's 28hp 25def, vs Hinata's 32hp 20def, Enemy has 26 ATK. they'll do 1 hp damage to Rinka, while doing 6 HP damage to Hinata, who's going to die faster? It'll take the enemy 28 attacks to kill Rinka, and only 5 attacks to kill Hinata.

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But when Hinata has Flowing Strike and the Trueblade avoid passive he won't get hit on PP and is less likely to get hit on EP. Rinka's Hp doesn't help her at all against the Mages and Sorcerers given how low her Res is and how she faces WTD. This is all still ignoring training Rinka when training her means taking away exp from Kaze and Kamui in the prolog. Both of who are way better units than both Hinata and Rinka.

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