Jedi's Day 1 Cloud impressions.

[Jedi]

After playing some matches with Euk, Timp and random For Glory, I have some thoughts on Cloud who I was greatly excited for. If there are redundant lines then I'm sorry I'm writing this at 4 am.

Now this is a day 1 evaluation, do not take what I say as 100% fact, I'm sure more experienced players will have better things to say. When he's actually allowed at tournaments, who knows I may even take him to a tournament, but we'll see.

Also the people at Smash Boards have already complied his frame data https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h5peQlvrlAc2g3kLTllpSkggN6MfpLfZIiBdGv6xOFk/htmlview?sle=true# be sure to click Cloud

Cloud is deceptively fast for a character with such a gigantic weapon, every hit is pretty punishing although not as much as say, Bowser or the super heavy hitters, his tilts are all really speedy with little to no lag, the dtilt slide has a little start up, but can dodge attacks and lead into some aerials, mostly the uair. Cloud's jab will always connect fully until around 100+% when it will then possibly start to whiff, but the first 2 kicks can be used as grab lead ins. Filt is a quick slash, that does reasonable damage, and has little to no lag, utilt can chain into itself multiple times and instantly lead into a nair or a uair usually. Ftilt becomes even better with his great ground speed and using pivots along with his ftilt

Cloud's throws are sadly not super great, he has a bthrow roundhouse kick, which can lead into a chase situation for his solid Dash Attack, an uthrow which sets people up for a possible aerial, a fthrow that just kicks them forward, and a dthrow which does actually lead into a quickly timed ftilt at lower % as well as his Side B Cross Slash, Cloud's throws are mostly all just neutral game enders to go into an advantage situation, but don't fub up the chase. His grab range is also sadly poor but isn't as short as Ganondorfs thankfully. Pivots help his reach somewhat. But overall his grab game is a tad weak despite the chase possibilities.

Cloud's Aerials, hoo man, Fair is somewhat slow, but is a very rewarding move and his speed allows it to be used in various situations and even get a few good spikes off if done well due to how its angled, careful though it has a bit of landing lag, Nair is amazing, it sweeps around him at amazing speed, possibly one of the fastest nair's in the game period you can also utilt right into a nair, it has tons of potential. Dair is a surprisingly swift punishing downward stab, which can meteor if sweetspoted and works slightly like Link's dair, but is faster and can't be as punished. Uair is spectacular, its really fast, its strong and it can juggle or even KO, imagine Ike's utilt but as a super fast bigger hitbox upward strike, its massive and it baits air dodges super easily, allowing for swift juggles if played right, dtilt and a few other moves can lead right into it. Bair is quick and is also fairly strong, not as strong as Ike's but it has great reach and along with his mobility does a good job being a spacing tool and aggressive attack. Bair, nair and uair also can be auto canceled taking out their lag to an extent.

Clouds Specials.

Neutral B - Blade Beam, this beam is wide and has decent reach, it can actually clash with a number of melee moves along with canceling out projectiles (It even can trade shots with Sheik's needles somewhat). Its a great spacing tool and pressure, B-Reversing it also seems to be ok, but I didn't find it to have a huge special use right now, who knows maybe later.

Limit Blade Beam - Blade Beam becomes bigger and does tons of hits even applying a bit of shield pressure even shielded, even Koing around 90-100% depending on stage location and rage.

Side Note - Villager can pocket both version of Blade Beam. I tested it myself.

Side B - Cross Slash, Cross Slash is kinda strange, you do a quick swing and if you land it, you can do the rest of the combo, at low %'s its very reliable and gets 19% very swiftly, but as the % and your rage grows, it becomes a bit less reliable, also in mid air you can suspend yourself briefly kinda like Marth's dancing blade, but not as nifty.

Limit Cross Slash, Cross Slash always does the full combo in this mode, and it pretty much instantly breaks shields, and has pretty good KO potential, if I recall around 80% to beyond, depending on weight class and stuff. Also seems slightly bigger but that may be just me.

Up B - Climhazzard, Cloud does a straight upward strike, and you can choose to do the downward strike, SADLY this is one of the weakest recoveries in all of smash 4 unless its the limit break variant. However on stage its a very very good out of shield attack, dragging your opponent into a decent amount of damage as its pretty fast and doesn't have much end lag. Off stage, its easy to gimp this recovery, although Cloud does have a wall jump to his name, so that helps slightly, but this move is finicky around the edge so be careful with it, it doesn't always snap to the ledge, but you can grab the edge while facing away from it at least.

Limit Climhazzard - Makes the move an actual recovery giving it gigantic distance and makes it a devastating upward slash which I haven't tested the kill potential of quite yet.

Down B - Limit Charge, Cloud's limit gauge is invisible most of the time, however with this you can see it while you charge, this charge up works like a typical b charge up move and you can dodge, shield cancel out of it, also the gauge goes up as you fight, getting hit and hitting both raise it. It can also be used in the air and canceled out via an air dodge.

Down B Limit - Finishing Touch, Cloud does a twirling tornado sword attack, which only does 1% damage but it Kills as early as 50/60%, its a very deadly move and one that shouldn't be taken lightly when Cloud is in Limit Mode. It also has somewhat of a windbox so be careful.

Up Smash - Is a fairly strong uppercut which stops people in their tracks and lifts them into the air, surprisingly doesn't have that much lag.

Fsmash - Three powerful slashes, a very very solid KO option and a good roll read move, however if you whiff you'll most likely be punished.

Dsmash - a hilt strike into a backward slash, the backward stab portion is good and the hilt strike does lead into the stab, but its techable, which lowers its effectiveness quite a bit. However the backward stab is not techable at all so its still fairly useful.

General impressions - I personally find Cloud to be a blast to play, he's really good at what he's good at, but his off stage game leaves alot to be desired (one of the worst in the game arguably), his limits are super awesome to use, he's really fast for the type of character he is, although he has weak grabs and combo potential, his moveset has a bit of a flow to it while your in a chase, leading to juggles and mild strings, combined with good spacing tools.

Where do I think he'll be in the overall tiers? My guess is near the middle of Mid-Tier (No idea if I'll even be right, this is day 1) although his limits can be a game changer and he has a number of tools, his poor recovery offsets it, so a very good Cloud could possibly rise. Will there be? We will have to see. I hope to be proven wrong and he can go high up in the ranks even if its just Mid-High. I do have hopes for him, he seems to have the potential to be pretty solid. I mean his blade beam at least gives him something to work with against the likes of Sheik so -shrugs- she still has that amazing offstage game though...

Not sure if he'll be a main either I would like him to be, but I'm still much more comfortable with my characters such as Ike, but this is day 1 after all

I'll be using him for quite some time, main or no, for sure, just to get the barrings right.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Jedi

[The DanMan]

We're going to get at least one more patch, plus several more months for the meta-game to start to solidify.

Would you say the Ike comparisions were somewhat on-point?

[Jedi]

We're going to get at least one more patch, plus several more months for the meta-game to start to solidify.

Would you say the Ike comparisions were somewhat on-point?

I find myself in a good spot to answer that, considering I use Ike quite a bit, Ike is more about the grab game along with some really solid combos, and I found myself not being as effective with Cloud if I was playing him like Ike.

Like the most similar thing they have to their name is how their jab works along with Cloud's uair being like Ike's utilt, but in the long run its kind of a weird comparison. Because they do have a similar like feel to them, but at the same time are completely different, I'm not sure how to explain it yet sorry.

Edit: I'd almost like to say, Ike is more of a grappler in your face swordsman with some nice spacing tools and options, while Cloud is a patient punishing zoner who can be aggressive when the situation calls for it thanks to his mobility and such.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Jedi

[MrStardustRicon]

My only major wishes overall is that he will get the little kinks like down smash being techable to be patched out, maybe make cross slash a bit more guaranteed since it can be naired out of by characters like yoshi and luigi with a frame 3 nair, and maybe even given some grab combo set ups and a hoo hah and we'd have a really solid character overall.

[Jedi]

My only major wishes overall is that he will get the little kinks like down smash being techable to be patched out, maybe make cross slash a bit more guaranteed since it can be naired out of by characters like yoshi and luigi with a frame 3 nair, and maybe even given some grab combo set ups and a hoo hah and we'd have a really solid character overall.

I have a feeling the first thing might get fixed in the Corrin/Bayonetta patch at the very least.

[Elieson]

Blade Beam is a fucktasticly good Gimping tool

[Jedi]

Blade Beam is a fucktasticly good Gimping tool

It's fairly good at it, especially the limit break version, it has some good distraction value if someone gets close to the stage for Cloud to try a dunk attempt too.

[Ema Skye]

Ran into a guy today who tried to use Finishing Touch to kill Luma.

Thought it was hilarious. Knockback is almost entirely vertical so it can't actually kill Luma.

[Jedi]

Ran into a guy today who tried to use Finishing Touch to kill Luma.

Thought it was hilarious. Knockback is almost entirely vertical so it can't actually kill Luma.

Hahahahaha, omg.

Other then that, how do you think the Rosalina v Cloud MU is from the brief experience?

[Ema Skye]

Honestly not really sure. The meta for Cloud on FG right now is Blade Beam Spam and Limit Break to force approaching. Luma beats both though in terms of forcing an approach, so Cloud always has to come to Rosa. Cloud is deceptively fast, unlike Shulk. He's not like ZSS and Pika fast in terms of rushdown. Cloud's Uair is dumb and always beats Rosa Dair in my experience. His Dair is fast and pretty much always beats recovering Rosa, and it can beat her UAir as well if she's slow to get it out.

Cloud sucks at combos though and outside of Limit Break, he's got really bad kill setups (pretty much just FSmash kills without a Limit Break). This doesn't really apply specifically to the Rosa matchup, but Rosa's survivability is actually really high in this matchup because she can shrug off most of the Limit Breaks (Grav Pull beats Blade Beam Break while Luma beats Finishing Touch; Climhazzard Break won't be used for offense which pretty much just leaves Side B Break).

I'm inclined to think it's in Rosa's favor. It really just feels like a lot of Rosa's other matchups, with the exception of rushdown and Rosa beats almost all non-rushdown characters.

[Jedi]

Uair can also KO, I was getting people at around 80/90% and they weren't exactly lightweights.

Wow we already have an AT http://smashboards.com/threads/cloud-instant-liimit-break-cancel-ilbc.425982

Also M2K's evaluation

Edited December 17, 2015 by Jedi