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Birthright Tier List


Energon
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"I'm the new kid, movin' in, and gettin' it done..."

I'm kind of a FE newb, and I'm SUPER HYPED for Fates. I'm getting the Special Edition, but I'm starting with Hoshido. If there's already a Birthright tier list, feel free to delete this. If not, can we start one? I realllly want to know who's good and bad in my first run (and all subsequent runs) so I thought I should start a topic. Let's go! :t:

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Shephen, do you think this newer discussion (its not so much of a tier list but an analysis) [i believe its yours, correct me if I'm wrong] that you wrote is up to date, or do you have additional refinements;

EDIT: I've deleted the link as apparently Shephen isn't done with it yet.

Edited by astrophys
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You mean the write up that I wasn't even finished with? Or even posted on the main sub-reddit?I mean it is more update, but still has refinement and proofing that needs to be done. The sentiments are all basically up to date. There are still some options for units that I'm still exploring and looking through so I wouldn't say 100% complete.

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I think you should use who you want on your first run, also because Birthright has infinite EXP! So don't sweat it too much.

Maybe you should simply avoid the bottom tiers, which I believe are Orochi (too slow), Rinkah (low damage), Subaki (weird growths, too slow) and Hinata (same reasons as Subaki). Also not many use Asama because there is already Sakura as your healer, plus he has weird growths for being a Priest, but I heard he can be a monster.

But even then, I encourage you to try "bad" characters out: you might find something peculiar in them!

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Oh, I just noticed a day or two ago you had your own sub-reddit and I was interested in what you had to say… it was a pretty good read….. I really liked it.

I have no problems with you reading it, only a problem with you posting it else where. If I was ready for it to be posted else where, I would have posted it on the main sub-reddit so then everyone could see it instead of leaving it on my personal sub filled with test posts and the like.

i'm sorry if there's already one. Is there a more up to date one, or could we start making one here?

A more up-to-date version would be something like:

This is assuming efficiency on Lunatic. Also no Link bonuses, visitor bonuses, buying skills, or buying stuff from other people's MyCastle.

Always Useful: Corrin, Hinoka, Azura, Jakob(1st), Felicia(1st)

Pretty much the same here, just moving Hinoka above Azura and separating the Servants

Useful With No Investment: Ryoma, Crimson, Yuugiri, Child Units*, Izana, Yukimura, Asyura

Removing the filler tier that I had last time. Child Units are weird with tiering, but for the most part they don't really need investment(unless you count pairing off the parents against them)

Very Useful With Investment: Baki, Silas, Kaze, Takumi, Saizou

Magical Baki has been proven and tested, turning him basically into a second Hinoka(which is really great). He still has his physical and support options in addition to flight so he covers every option basically. Silas is Silas. Kaze needs a bit of bulk boosters for the late game. Takumi I could see going down a notch or two since he doesn't do much in the mid-game. I'll need to see how he does as a GKW with an Arms Scroll for the lance rank. Saizou has a slower start than Kaze, but better late game since he has some good bulk

Useful With Investment: Oboro, Nishiki, Hinata

No change here really. These guys have pretty good bases to go pretty far in the game. Aren't as useful as the ones above them, but still pretty useful.

Moderately Useful With Investment: Sakura, Kagerou, Orochi, Hana, Felicia(2nd), Asama, Setsuna, Jakob(2nd)

These guys have a variety of issues such as bad bases, staff lock, join time, growths, ect.Once you get past that, they will be pretty good.

Require Heavy Investment to be Moderately Useful: Rinka, Mozu, Yomi

These guys have really terrible starts and aren't useful at all for a while. Doesn't help that their results after training are similar to other units who took much less effort to get(except for maybe Yomi, but he really really sucks.

Edited by Shephen
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My apologies, Shephen… I hadn't made the connection that it wasn't meant to be shared yet, although I should have made the connection… I guess I was being a bit slow and stupid to not think that one through…. would you like me to delete the link?

EDIT: I've deleted the link. I won't post links to your personal subreddit again.

Edited by astrophys
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Its fine, don't worry about. Just in the future don't post stuff from my personal sub since it like 95% of the time me just posting so I can look over it or have someone else proof it for me to post on the main sub. Everything I post on the main sub(or here on SF for that matter) is 100% fair game though.

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Uh so what I'm seeing is that using all the prepromotes has like no downsides lol?

All the underlevelled people tend to end up at the bottom comparatively

also a quick question: I'm playing hard no grind classic and I want to use Orochi, Rinkah, and Hinata. So is that unfeasible?

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The funny thing about Tusbaki is that so many people (including a lot of people on GameFAQs, which I frequent [it was my first video game web forum that I started using]) think he's horrible, even though given his flying utility, initial high player phase speed with Swallow Strike, Shocksticking, etc. he seems really good.

How would you best organize a set of arguments to show people that despite his stats (like growths) making people think he's terrible that he's actually surprisingly good?

Edited by astrophys
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Uh so what I'm seeing is that using all the prepromotes has like no downsides lol?

All the underlevelled people tend to end up at the bottom comparatively

also a quick question: I'm playing hard no grind classic and I want to use Orochi, Rinkah, and Hinata. So is that unfeasible?

Well the latter half don't join until the late game. Children vary depending on parents and the like. Yuugiri's bulk is questionable for the latter half of the game. Crimson and Ryoma don't really have downsides aside from low exp gain for awhile(Though Crimson's res is sketch).

In Hard no grind classic there shouldn't be much issue with using those 3 though Rinka will need a lot support.

The funny thing about Tusbaki is that so many people (including a lot of people on GameFAQs, which I frequent [it was my first video game web forum that I started using]) think he's horrible, even though given his flying utility, initial high player phase speed with Swallow Strike, Shocksticking, etc. he seems really good.

How would you best organize a set of arguments to show people that despite his stats (like growths) making people think he's terrible that he's actually surprisingly good?

You mostly would just need to prove via averages and enemy stats that Baki is equal in combat to other units(Doing similar damage or both orkoing). If Baki has similar combat to Oboro, then Baki is better since he has the extra-movement and flight. Sure base 10 spd and 35% growth may sound really bad, but when you get enough funds in Hoshido where buying tonics is trivial and you fight unpromoted enemies for 75% of the game with enemies like the Hosh!9 DMs having 6 Spd and the Hosh!14 Cavs having 9 Spd, then it isn't really an issue. Same thing with the shockstick. Sure Baki has base 0 Mag and 15% growth, but with 2 mag(before boosts, 9 after) he is actually able to ORKO the armor knights in chapter 14 and do like 80% everything else. Rallies and Staves vary from person to person so can't really convince of that. Though staves in Fates are Mag/3, so heals are pitiful and Baki's low mag doesn't actually hurt him in that department.

Do you have Felicia and Jakob twice because you get them differently because of gender? Why is Chp. 2 Maid better than Chp. 16?

Yeah, the 1st means that Corrin had whatever gender needed so that they join first. By joining earlier, they are just better than joining later.

Edited by Shephen
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Not for Nohr. I did do one for IK though. I'll just copy paste it here

I made a list of it somewhere that I'm to lazy to dig up. So here is a rough idea in one of the augmented tier list format. This is mostly a gist of things

Starting Party: Kamui, Azura, First Servant, Gunter. - Always relevant and join early

Prepromotes: Camilla, Ryoma, Xander, Leon, Yuugiri, Asyura, Flora, Fuuga. - Standard pre-promote reasons. low investment high returns.

Useful with some investment: Yomi, Takumi, Kagerou, Flannel, Silas, Sakura. - These guys need some effort to get going, but they will make up for it easily.

Useful with investment: Baki, Oboro, Kaze, Hinata, Nishiki, Hana, Luna. - These guys have some problems, but they will be worth the effort.

Useful with more investment: Hinoka, Saizou, Orochi, Elise, Mozume, Belka, Second Servant. A lot of problems, but they can make up for it down the road.

Needs a lot of investment: Pieri, Lazward, Rinka Asama, Zero, Setsuna. - A lot of problems. Maybe they are worth it, maybe they aren't. Up to you.

Rest in peace: Charlotte, Arthur, Nyx, Benoit, Effie. - Yeah nothing is going to be happening to these guys.

Odin: Odin - Odin

And that is a general idea of the units in IK based on Lunatic. Changes can easily be made since I only made this list in like 3 minutes, but it gets the point across.

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I have no problems with you reading it, only a problem with you posting it else where. If I was ready for it to be posted else where, I would have posted it on the main sub-reddit so then everyone could see it instead of leaving it on my personal sub filled with test posts and the like.

A more up-to-date version would be something like:

This is assuming efficiency on Lunatic. Also no Link bonuses, visitor bonuses, buying skills, or buying stuff from other people's MyCastle.

Always Useful: Corrin, Hinoka, Azura, Jakob(1st), Felicia(1st)

Pretty much the same here, just moving Hinoka above Azura and separating the Servants

Useful With No Investment: Ryoma, Crimson, Yuugiri, Child Units*, Izana, Yukimura, Asyura

Removing the filler tier that I had last time. Child Units are weird with tiering, but for the most part they don't really need investment(unless you count pairing off the parents against them)

Very Useful With Investment: Baki, Silas, Kaze, Takumi, Saizou

Magical Baki has been proven and tested, turning him basically into a second Hinoka(which is really great). He still has his physical and support options in addition to flight so he covers every option basically. Silas is Silas. Kaze needs a bit of bulk boosters for the late game. Takumi I could see going down a notch or two since he doesn't do much in the mid-game. I'll need to see how he does as a GKW with an Arms Scroll for the lance rank. Saizou has a slower start than Kaze, but better late game since he has some good bulk

Useful With Investment: Oboro, Nishiki, Hinata

No change here really. These guys have pretty good bases to go pretty far in the game. Aren't as useful as the ones above them, but still pretty useful.

Moderately Useful With Investment: Sakura, Kagerou, Orochi, Hana, Felicia(2nd), Asama, Setsuna, Jakob(2nd)

These guys have a variety of issues such as bad bases, staff lock, join time, growths, ect.Once you get past that, they will be pretty good.

Require Heavy Investment to be Moderately Useful: Rinka, Mozu, Yomi

These guys have really terrible starts and aren't useful at all for a while. Doesn't help that their results after training are similar to other units who took much less effort to get(except for maybe Yomi, but he really really sucks.

I i see you didn't said anything about good guard stance slaves or something like that, imo rinka is one of the best for it simply for good str and def bonuses (Ryoma would like it, wouldn't he?) For example~

But i see the point of getting Rinka and Yomi at the bottom tier, i was also dissapointed by Rinka growths, her weapon rank and maybe even bases. What a waste tho, i like her dessing and that she's only one deflaut oni savage in game. :S

Edit: I see you wrote "no link bonuses" However if someone want to use someone to just support other unit, always good to point this out~

Edited by Eriotto
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I i see you didn't said anything about good guard stance slaves or something like that, imo rinka is one of the best for it simply for good str and def bonuses (Ryoma would like it, wouldn't he?) For example~

But i see the point of getting Rinka and Yomi at the bottom tier, i was also dissapointed by Rinka growths, her weapon rank and maybe even bases. What a waste tho, i like her dessing and that she's only one deflaut oni savage in game. :S

Edit: I see you wrote "no link bonuses" However if someone want to use someone to just support other unit, always good to point this out~

His list didn't include support bots. It was more "how does this character perform as a combat unit except for staffers".

Edit: I do agree that Rinka's bonuses are pretty damn helpful early on.

Edited by Ownagepuffs
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Isn't Rinkah a keeper for longterm use considering a lot of Hoshido is lowmanning with the juggernauts like Ryoma and MU? Just keep her paired up with whoever needs strength and a bit of bulk.

In spite of his nonexistent magic, I bet Tsubaki is a better Shocksticker than Falcoknight Sakura. Even with one Arms Scroll, it took such a long time to get her to C lances and when she did get there, her combat wasn't that good (namely the durability; magic was fine and speed was sky-high). You either go Sage or just stick to healing if you don't care about Sakura doing any fighting for you.

I did like the flight though!

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I feel like good pairup capability should be it's own section that's separate from the tierlist (eg. Rinka should be both on the main tier and the "good at pairup" section). As a Rinka fan, I'm not interested in shoving her in the back and relegating her to support-bot status, no matter how good she's at it, so knowing that in order to make her work as a front unit takes a lot of investment is also helpful information. It lets people know to set aside x resources should they, like me, would rather her work in front, since that's just as valid of a use case as one who just wants to know who's good at pairup.

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In spite of his nonexistent magic, I bet Tsubaki is a better Shocksticker than Falcoknight Sakura. Even with one Arms Scroll, it took such a long time to get her to C lances and when she did get there, her combat wasn't that good (namely the durability; magic was fine and speed was sky-high). You either go Sage or just stick to healing if you don't care about Sakura doing any fighting for you.

I did like the flight though!

I haven't played yet, but I'd suspect this is true for weapon rank reasons (Tsubaki can pull it off without needing an Arms Scroll to get going in a timeline manner, as lances/naginatas are his natural weapon type). Shephen seems to think that it works well.

Anyways, Tsubaki actually according to the data tables has a 20% magic growth personally, although you are correct that he doesn't start with any magic… once a Falcon Warrior, he'll have a 30% magic growth, as well as +4 magic just from promotion, which would be half of Falcon Sakura's 60% (50%+10%).

Of course, if you're actively using Tsubaki in your party, that means you can probably get Matoi, his child. She only has a 15% personal growth as opposed to Tsubaki's 20% growth, but unlike him she has base default magic (3, to Tsubaki's 0). This is actually worth 10 levels of Tsubaki leveling magic as a Falcon, or 15 levels of Tsubaki as a Pegasus, on average, and Matoi will still have magic growth herself, so this gives her someone of an edge on magic.

Also, her magic growth rate is adjustable from the mother… assuming that its total growth = [mother's personal growth+ child's default personal growth]/2 + class growth (not yet confirmed to my knowledge, but maybe someone knows differently), Matoi could range from anywhere between 7.5% [no-magic-growth mother like Kagerou] to 40% [Orochi as mother] magic growth as a Pegasus Warrior, and +10% more, or in other words 17.5% to 50% as a Falcon Warrior. If we consider Oboro, whom is considered one of the more synergistic mother for Matoi/wives for Tsubaki, Oboro has a 20% growth, so 17.5% personal for Matoi and 27.5% as a Falcon…. Hinoka and Rinkah would maintain her default 15%, as they also have 15%.

Anyways, she also has Prodigy, so vs. physical units if her STR doesn't exceed the enemy she should expect to get +4 damage…. strong endgame enemies like Generals, Great Knights, and Berskerers, who have more STR than she'll ever have as a Falcon Knight in most cases due to caps, will end up triggering Prodigy automatically, whereas medium STR units like Heroes would be borderline while she's probably not triggering it against low STR units like Bow Knights (but they have higher RES anyways). Although it depends on the mother she has…

Anyways, my point is that if you're using Tsubaki for this role then his child Matoi could quite likely end up as a superior replacement for him… I think. Maybe I'm wrong.

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