Opinion: Fates gives the precident for a FE8 Remake as 2 Games

[Aurabolt]

Of course, we all know Eirika and Ephraim's Routes overlap after they split but with some tweaking, they could certainly split their campaigns into two separate, different and complete campaigns. Plus the possible third campaign Ala Fate's Revelations.

Much of this hand canon on my part so feel free to overlook certain things:

Overall Changes

• The games will go with the sub titles Sovreign for Eirika's Campaign and Justice for Ephraim's.
• Sovereign focuses entirely on Eirika's journey through Magvel. On Chapter 5x of Eirika's Route you will play as Ephraim's army but on Chapter 8, his team will be Ally NPCs. Same when the twins reunite in Chapter 16: Ephraim's forces will be Ally NPCs.
• Justice focuses entirely on Ephraim's campaign against Grado. Ephraim's version of Chapter 5x will involve you controllng Eirika's Forces in what would normally be Chapter 5 of the original game. In Chapter 8, Eirika's forces will be Ally NPCs. Same when the twins reunite in Chapter 16: Eirika's forces will be Ally NPCs.
• Since Eirika and Ephraim are fighting separate campaigns, the few times they do work together they will fight on massive maps.
• After Eirika or Ephraim's campaigns are completed, a third route will be made available to you: Tradition. The third route is the prequel to Sacred Stones, beginning with the Hero Grado and his allies defeating Fomortiis. It then fast-forwards to just before the events of the game and the story is done from Grado's point of view. You will play as characters from Grado including Glen, Duessel and Lyon (before and after his corruption) leading up to the start of the game. Hints on this third campaign are made in both Eirika and Ephraim's routes.
• Radiant Dawn's Promotion Tree returns: All Classes have 2 promotion tiers: Eirika and Ephraim promote to Great Lord in Chapter 16 (if they're level 10+ by then) and can then promote to Blade Lord (Eirika) or Knight Lord (Ephraim) after Chapter 18.
• Certain characters are locked into Eirika or Epraim's Route. To compensate, new characters are introduced in both Campaigns.
• Eirika and Ephraim will be accompanied by a playable Tactician (Player Character). Like Eirika and Ephraim, they are twins: One goes with each Lord.
• Class change makes its return with the usual limitations. Specific Class Change Tokens like Knight Crest returns to promote to 2nd tier classes.
• After Chapter 8, players will have access to a Fort ala Fates. Once a day, characters will be able to create an NPC to be permanently added to their army.
• Up to 15 custom characters excluding the Tactician can be in your army at once with an additional 20 that are stationed at the fort. Your custom characters can be used in the third campaign as well and are dubbed as "Mercenaries".
• Previously unlockable characters requiring the Tower of Valni or Lagdou Ruins are unlocked via their own Spotpass Maps. Must clear Chapter 16 to access the Maps but which maps decided based on the Campaign: The others are paid DLC.
• Permadeath can be reversed by going to a new area, Heroes' Crypt starting on Chapter 8. You will be given the option of clearing the foes or paying in Gold to revive dead characters. This only applies to the canon cast. Slain Custom Characters can be recruited again from the fort.
• You will have up to 70 playable characters including Custom Characters. in your army in either game.
• Streetpass ala Awakening is also present.
• Anna will join as a playable character once you've found the secret shop in Grado or Jehanna Hall. You will have one more chance much later in the game to recruit her though.

Eirika's Route

• Story is told entirely from Eirika's point of view though references to Ephraim's and the Third Route are made.
• Tana, Innes, Vanessa, Gerik, Tethys, Marisa, L'Arachel, Dozla, Saleh, Ewan and Cormag join Eirika on her travels prior to Chapter 15. Ephraim gains a number of new characters to compensate. Eirika gains other companions in exchange for the ones not listed that would normally be recruited on her route.
• Eirika's version of Chapter 16 will be different from Ephraim's: While Ephraim focuses on taking the castle, Eirika's army is tasked with holding off enemy reinforcements in town to give Ephraim the time he'll need to take down Orson.
• Chapter 15 is split in half and begins slightly different: Ephraim's army arrives just as the battle begins and cuts off Valter, making it an even fight. After the battle, Ephraim gives Eirika the items he and his forces looted from their battle along with Grado's Sacred Weapons.
• Chapter 17 happens normally though Ephraim, Duessel and some of their men are not there. After the battle it's revealed Ephraim was ambushed in the courtyard by remnants of the Grado army.
• In Chapter 19, Ephraim covers the rear while Eirika forges ahead with her more agile forces. Eirika faces mostly flying monsters. Ephraim intervenes at the last minute, stopping Lyon from breaking Renais' Sacred Stone. The stone gets shattered anyway during the exchange and Eirika Class promotes to Blade Lord.
• After Chapter 20, The Demon King's minions mobilize to defend their dark master. Eirika and Ephraim are both going inside this time. You will pick 15 for both Eirika and Ephraim for the final assault. The rest will stay behind to keep their escape secure.
• There is a post-game campaign where you must travel the maps of Eirika's Route again slaying monsters, ending at Jehanna Hall. At each map you will fight a zombie version of the bosses you fought before. After helping Joshua down Carlisle (again), you will get word Ephraim's forces have finished dealing with the monsters in Grado and are heading your way. Two massive monster armies suddenly arrive. One is being led by the zombie version of Renais' legendary King Fado. The other, by Lyon. It turns out Fomortiis used some powerful magic to set the Creature Campaign in motion when he possessed Lyon. The plan was for Lyon to steal the new Dark Stone but Lyon changed his mind, instead chosing to set the horde against the woman he broke his heard: Eirika. Ephraim fights their father while Eirika fights Lyon.
• After Lyon is defeated, the souls of all the heroes who died are finally put to rest. As a bonus, you can visit the Heroes' Crypt to summon the dead Generals and Leaders free of charge. You will also now have full access to Ephraim's army.
• Cameos from other FE Titles: Say'ri (Swordmaster), Priam (Hero) and Miriel (Sage) from Awakening as well as Roy (Hero) from Binding Blade and Hector (Warrior) from Blazing Sword are bonus characters who you will meet one by one. Ten of them came to Magvel but they were separated into two groups shortly after they arrived by the Grado Army. Once you've met all five, they will meet you during the battle in Renais in Chapter 16. After the battle, you will learn the missing half of their group met up with Ephraim and all 10 will join you.

Ephraim's Route

• Story is told entirely from Ephraim's point of view though references to Eirika's and the Third Route are made.
• Amelia, Duessel, Knoll and Rennac join Ephraim on his travels prior to Chapter 15. Eirika gains a number of new characters to compensate. Ephraim gains other companions in exchange for the ones not listed that would normally be recruited on his route.
• Ephraim's version of Chapter 16 is the same as the original game's: While Ephraim focuses on taking the castle, Eirika's army is tasked with holding off enemy reinforcements in town to give Ephraim the time he'll need to take down Orson.
• Chapter 15 is split in half and begins slightly different: Ephraim's army arrives just as the battle begins and cuts off Valter, making it an even fight. After the battle, Eirika gives Ephraim the items she and her forces looted from their battle along with Jehanna's Sacred Weapons.
• Chapter 17 is a little different for Ephraim. While training in the courtyard with some of his men, Ephraim is ambushed by remnants of the Grado Army.
• In Chapter 19, Ephraim covers the rear while Eirika forges ahead with her more agile forces. Ephraim faces mostly Gorgons. Eirika intervenes at the last minute, stopping Lyon from breaking Renais' Sacred Stone. The stone gets shattered anyway during the exchange and Ephraim Class promotes to Knight Lord.
• After Chapter 20, The Demon King's minions mobilize to defend their dark master. Eirika and Ephraim are both going inside this time. You will pick 15 for both Eirika and Ephraim for the final assault. The rest will stay behind to keep their escape secure.
• There is a post-game campaign where you must travel the maps of Ephraim's Route again slaying monsters, ending at Jehanna Hall. At each map you will fight a zombie version of the bosses you fought before. After helping Duessel take down Emperor Vigarde (again), you will get word Eirika's forces have finished dealing with the monsters in Jehanna and head north to meet up with them. Two massive monster armies suddenly arrive. One is being led by the zombie version of Renais' legendary King Fado. The other, by Lyon. It turns out Fomortiis used some powerful magic to set the Creature Campaign in motion when he possessed Lyon. The plan was for Lyon to steal the new Dark Stone but Lyon changed his mind, instead chosing to set the horde against the man he considered his greated rival: Ephraim. Eirika fights their father while Ephraim fights Lyon.
• After Lyon is defeated, the souls of all the heroes who died are finally put to rest. As a bonus, you can visit the Heroes' Crypt to summon the dead Generals and Leaders free of charge. You will also now have full access to Eirika's armies.
• Cameos from other FE Titles: Michaiah (Sage), Stefan (Swordmaster) and the Black Knight (Great Knight) from Radiant Dawn as well as Lillina (Sage) from Binding Blade and Eliwood (Hero) from Blazing Sword are bonus characters who you will meet one by one. Ten of them came to Magvel but they were separated into two groups shortly after they arrived by the Grado Army. Once you've met all five, they will meet you during the battle in Renais in Chapter 16. After the battle, you will learn the missing half of their group met up with Eirika and all 10 will join you.

Third Route

• The prequel story to the events of Sacred Stones. As such, there is no overworld map like Eirika and Ephraim's campaigns. The opening Chapter has you controlling the ancient hero Grado and his army during thay dramatic battle to seal the Demon King. All subsequent maps take place during the 3 years prior to Sacred Stones' opening moments (referenced as flashbacks in Eirika and Ephraim's campaigns).
• It's the untold War of the Stones from Grado's point of view. You will mostly control Lyon, who due to his demonic possession now has access to powerful necromantic abilities. The final battle of the campaign has you up against the Great Dragon Morva.
• In the cutscene that follows, Lyon is struck down by Eirika and Ephraim in the temple. With his last breath, he vows to face the twins in battle one more time but under his own power (Hence the creature campaign).
• You will learn the twin tacticians who joined Eirika and Ephraim were born from experiments carried out in secret in Grado centuries earlier: They are half human, half Manakete. Hence the irony behind their nickname, The Twin Dragons. They lack the ability to transform like their full-blooded kin but can live for centuries. The Twin Tacticians reveal their lineage to Eirika/Ephraim and Myrrh once you get their Support to A.

After clearing the Third Route, New Game+ is unlocked for Eirika and Ephraim's Routes. The following perks are made available for you to carry over to the new playthrough:

• Data Transfer: Allows you to wirelessly transfer data from Eirika/Ephraim's Route to someone with a copy of the other.
• Start with 50,000 Gold: Self-explanatory.
• Eirika/Ephraim's Forces: You will start your next game with all of the characters recruited only on Ephraim/Eirika's Route. They will become available to you after Chapters 8 and 15.
• Awakening to Fate: Allows you to import your Robin from Awakening and your Korrin from Fates if there is clear data for them on your console.
• Super Trainee: Normally you had to clear both Eirika and Ephraim's Routes first. In NG+ you get them off the bat.
• VIP Access: Anna is available from the beginning of the game. She comes with the Member Card in her inventory, which is needed to access the Secret Shop. In addition, you will now be able to access the Secret Shops during your first playthrough from the map screen.
• Class Change Items: Items needed to Promote are added to all shops.
• Training Gear: Items needed to increase stats including Swiftsole are added to the Secret Shops.
• Silver Card: Silver Card effect (everything is half off) is applied to all purchases on NG+.
• All Inventory Items and Money: Self-Explanatory.
• Ambassador: Recruitable Enemy NPCs are now Green Ally NPCs. You will still need to talk to them to recruit them.
• Forbidden Magic: Naglfar (Lyon's signature book) is added to your inventory.

....Again, major headcannon on my part XD

They could probably fit both Campaigns like the original but this feels more likely to happen. Critique welcomed--mo DEMANDED.

[alatartheblue42]

Generally impressive and somewhat reasonable. Some critiques:

1) The custom unit once per day... No. Or they have to be on par with the Phantoms summoned by Summoners. Otherwise people will use custom characters and relatively ignore the story characters. They can just turn the game on once a day, make a character, and sign off until their ranks are filled.

2) Heroes Crypt: If there is a gold option, it should be inordinately high (minimum 25,000 for a 1 tier unit and increased for higher tiers), and the battle option should be reasonably tough (scaled to a few above the level of the one you are trying to resurrect). Otherwise it defeats the point of having permadeath. A better option would be Casual mode or something similar.

3) Don't put Swiftsoles in the Secret Shops. Otherwise, because of the great amount of money you would have and the passive Silver Card effect, you could get a ridiculous amount of units up to stupidly high movement values. If they are in the shops, make sure there is a reasonable maximum that can be used on a single unit (ie: 2 so that even a maxed mounted unit only has 12 [which is still rather scary]).

And a couple of personal suggestions:

1) Hector and BK as Generals rather than Warrior and Great Knight. To me, that fits them better.

2) Give any cameo characters actual supports with the people of their army (Seriously Awakening? The Spotpass characters each get one normal support?).

3) S-supports, but no children characters. Time travel is abused, and a time jump would mean having to re-art the 1st gen characters.

4) Have the epilogue after the Lyon mission. That way people can see endings between characters of different armies.

Edited January 23, 2016 by alatartheblue42

[Dragoncat]

I would totes play this, but I don't like the Heroes Crypt idea, as has been said, casual mode would work better. Even though most of us here probably wouldn't do casual mode anyhow xD Love what you did with the tacticians, overall this is a solid idea that I honestly wish existed.

How would the cameos be handled though? Outrealm gate?

[X-Naut]

I can't see a 3-tier system working unless the levels are longer and enemies scale up faster. Eirika and Ephraim's 2nd tiers are also pointless if they only exist for two chapters.

[alatartheblue42]

I can't see a 3-tier system working unless the levels are longer and enemies scale up faster. Eirika and Ephraim's 2nd tiers are also pointless if they only exist for two chapters.

IMO the 3-tier would have more difficulty from the branching promotion tree. Aurabolt was suggesting the inclusion of a post-main-game side story, and that would allow more time for the 3rd-tier lords.

[Solkia]

The only games that would really benefit from remakes at this point are the games that don't auto-calculate.

[Aurabolt]

...Crap, just realized I didn't note Paralogues. Both routes would have Paralogues in both the main Campaign(s) and the Post-game Content. LOL.Blazing Sword, there are some characters you will need multiple playthroughs to get and some Paralogues that you can only see when certain preconditions are met.

Skills would also be back but they would be more in line with the later games where you can pick skills. Also like the newer games some skills are exclusive to certain characters ro classes.

First, though:

Generally impressive and somewhat reasonable. Some critiques:

1) The custom unit once per day... No. Or they have to be on par with the Phantoms summoned by Summoners. Otherwise people will use custom characters and relatively ignore the story characters. They can just turn the game on once a day, make a character, and sign off until their ranks are filled.

2) Heroes Crypt: If there is a gold option, it should be inordinately high (minimum 25,000 for a 1 tier unit and increased for higher tiers), and the battle option should be reasonably tough (scaled to a few above the level of the one you are trying to resurrect). Otherwise it defeats the point of having permadeath. A better option would be Casual mode or something similar.

3) Don't put Swiftsoles in the Secret Shops. Otherwise, because of the great amount of money you would have and the passive Silver Card effect, you could get a ridiculous amount of units up to stupidly high movement values. If they are in the shops, make sure there is a reasonable maximum that can be used on a single unit (ie: 2 so that even a maxed mounted unit only has 12 [which is still rather scary]).

And a couple of personal suggestions:

1) Hector and BK as Generals rather than Warrior and Great Knight. To me, that fits them better.

2) Give any cameo characters actual supports with the people of their army (Seriously Awakening? The Spotpass characters each get one normal support?).

3) S-supports, but no children characters. Time travel is abused, and a time jump would mean having to re-art the 1st gen characters.

4) Have the epilogue after the Lyon mission. That way people can see endings between characters of different armies.

In order:

1. That wasn't supposed to make it into the finished draft. LOL. I'll edit that part out.

2. Yeah, like Awakening's system the cost in gold--as well as the difficulty of the battle--both depend on the Hero's level and class tier. So for example if you wanted to recruit Emperor Vigarde (Level 20 Great Knight), that'll set you back 20,000G. In battle, you'll fight the Hero plus 4 Phantom Units scaled to match the level of your highest-level unit.

3. Yeah, there'd be a hard cap for the non-custom characters. Probably 2 or 3 uses (with most stat boosts, the limit is 10 I believe). Custom characters (My Unit, something else I need to elaborate on in my OP) and guest characters have much more relaxed restrictions.

1. Another brain fart there on my part XD

2. Eh...now that you mention it I'll elaborate on them a bit more. They're somewhere between the Awakening children and the "Mercenaries" in Fates: They're part of the story but not full "Our simply being here may have jacked up your world's time-space continum" level like Awakening (That was Lucina's explaination for wearing a mask and calling herself Marth early on).

3. I was tempted to add children but then I remembered it didn't exist in the original game and would feel way too forced in the Remake(s). Also the reasons you listed. LOL. There would be S-Rank Supports. Once attained, both chars get married but decide to hold off on having kids until after the war's over. I'll elaborate on Supports and bonuses in my edit.

4. The endings would play out after the Creature Campaign, yes but the credits would play after the Demon King is slain (Opportunity to save given). So it would be final boss, credits, save opportunity and then Postgame Creature Campaign in that order.

I would totes play this, but I don't like the Heroes Crypt idea, as has been said, casual mode would work better. Even though most of us here probably wouldn't do casual mode anyhow xD Love what you did with the tacticians, overall this is a solid idea that I honestly wish existed.

How would the cameos be handled though? Outrealm gate?

The Cameos would be handled by Spotpass and Paid DLC. Spotpass Maps provide the means to recruit Leaders of the Nations of Magvel. Hayden and Mansel--the only leaders who doesn't get killed off, actually--are recruited in a Spotpass Map together. Hayden is a Ranger while Mansel is the unique Pontifex Class: His class-exclusive Consecration inflicts 15HP Damage to foes and Heals 15HP to allies within 4 Squares of him.

The Crypt's function is for rezzing party members who die with permadeath turned on. Naturally, the costs scales with level and etc. In an interesting change, when characters die all the weapons and items they were holding go into your convoy so they're not lost forever. The Crypt has an additional use: You can challenge Magvel's Ancient Heroes. Beating them allows you to get another copy of their weapons. They're crazy-powerful as well. The rez aspects of the Crypt can't be used in Hard and above or Casual Mode.

You can pay to unlock Eirika/Ephraim's Route if you only have one to get those characters.

I can't see a 3-tier system working unless the levels are longer and enemies scale up faster. Eirika and Ephraim's 2nd tiers are also pointless if they only exist for two chapters.

The FE8 Remakes would be ridiculously big--in both size and length. I just gave an overview though I will tweak as I come up with more things. The 3-tier thing was more head cannon than anything else though I agree it would make the most sense to use it in a game with massive maps and/or a ridiculously long campaign. The FE8 Remakes would have both plus the Fates mechanic of being able to buy the other campaign digitally at a discount. The Grado Prequel in in addition to the Creature Campaign content that would make up the post-game. That would make the game almost as long as Radiant Dawn. It would easily be twice as long as Awakening.

...Gonna edit my OP now XD

[Moblin Major General]

None of the Western releases need remakes, and the game most likely to get it is Gaiden do to Fates' introduction of unbreakable weapons. Barring that, the Jugdral saga as either 1 game or Genealogy + Thracia as paid DLC. Good idea, but pre-western games first. We still need Mystery to get a western release, though.

[edgelordweeb]

I'd play it, I'd love to have a fresh experience of The Sacred Stones but so many people would be pissed. If this happened it shouldn't be advertised as a remake, but rather a retelling of The Sacred Stones.

[Jayvee94]

I'd play it, I'd love to have a fresh experience of The Sacred Stones but so many people would be pissed. If this happened it shouldn't be advertised as a remake, but rather a retelling of The Sacred Stones.

You may have heard of the tale of the Royal Twins of Renais.

*cue epic cutscene of heroism*

But that's not the whole story!

I wish the Route Split can be handled like Radiant Dawn Part 4.

Assigning Forde and Kyle with Ephraim

while Seth with Eirika

this would introduce us with more Frelian Knights, a few more mercenaries, and a few more villagers

Also, many characters are seemed to be tied to Eirika's story. I mean

Joshua being the prince of Jehanna, Cormag's revenge story

Edited May 2, 2016 by Jayvee94

[Sky Knight Subaki]

I haven't played the Sacred Stones so I really hope this happens.