Is Fates skinship removal that big of thing?

[Hunter Nightblood]

I guess you can say...it rubbed them in the wrong way.

I'd put another Ba-Dum-Tiss video here, but I'd rather not receive another fact about spam cans.

[PuffPuff]

If this ends up being like "the Voyage of the Dawn Treader" movie, where they did something the fans didn't like, and then they decide the fans don't like the series just because they were against that one thing, I will be severely angry.

No way. D:

Why else would sales be high for the FE amiibos and the SE pack?! They are a buisness industry. The money is all they give a fuck about. Sales go this good, we get more games! End of story.

Edited January 30, 2016 by PuffPuff

[eclipse]

I'd put another Ba-Dum-Tiss video here, but I'd rather not receive another fact about spam cans.

You get a spam warning, person you quoted gets banned for poor taste

There's a crappy pun thread buried somewhere in Far from the Forest. Feel free to ba-dum-tiss that one~!

Ahem. . .

If the giant skinship thread is anything to judge, it looks like it's a giant deal to some. Still not a big deal for me, and I'm curious to see what will replace it!

[Loki Laufeyson]

I guess you can say...it rubbed them in the wrong way.

*incidental trombone Sans*

Meh. I wanted to interact with my guys. I didnt care about petting them. I just wanted to interact with them. This is the main reason i was ok with the feature. I also liked the idea of having more intimate interaction with the unit i S supported. Yeah that was the big thing there. More planning on using that for the character my MU is going to slam. Well, if i can still interact with my guys even if its different, ill deal.

[Knight]

I honestly wish the thing wasn't in the game in the first place, and resources were spent on something that might improve the story or gameplay. Since the feature was made though, I don't really care whether it gets in or no, it's not going to change its pointlessness. I'd probably use it once for a giggle and then never touch it again. I don't really have any ill feeling towards anyone who did want the feature, or those who opposed it, I just wish people would stop arguing about it and justifying their anger in strange ways.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

For those arguing that it was not an essential or core part of Fire Emblem - that doesn't mean it wasn't a feature many people were looking forward to and would have enjoyed.

Going back to the pizza analogy, it's like saying, as long the crust, sauce, and cheese are good (the basic core of a pizza), I don't care if there are other toppings at all.

If you want to eat cheese pizza for the rest of your life, that's fine, but don't take away other topping options from others who want them.

Skinship wouldn't be like introducing ice cream to a pizza shop, it would be like introducing a new topping to the menu, then taking it away because fans of cheese only pizza didn't like it.

Let's try a thought experiment.

How many of these would have to be cut before it's a problem? Would you be fine if Fates removed ALL of these non-essential FE features?

-Multiplayer

-Spotpass

-Skinship

-My Castle

-Reclassing

-Marriages

-Kids

-Casual Mode

-Voice Acting

-Avatar Customization

-Dual Audio

-Pair-up.

-Skills (I'm serious, FE7 was great without skills, so they can't be THAT important to the core FE experience)

They may not be the core features that make Fire Emblem what it is (tactical RPG gameplay, stories, and characters and supports), but they are very nice to have and make the experience that much more enjoyable. If you don't like these features, you could just not use them and ignore them if you wish.

Edited January 30, 2016 by XaosLogos

[eclipse]

Here, yardstick: "Is this going to affect how I play through each chapter?"

Anything that's "yes" means that I don't want it to be cut. So reclassing/pair-up are definitely "yes", I can live without skills/avatar existence or customization but I'd file that under "yes", Casual Mode is a split answer because of battle saves, and everything else is "no".

You're wrong about FE8 not having skills - several other classes had specific things they could do (Wyvern Knight pierce). These characteristics were labeled as "skills", IIRC.

And before you go further, I refuse to have things like "healers only getting experience by being attacked".

[Time the Crestfallen]

For those arguing that it was not an essential or core part of Fire Emblem - that doesn't mean it wasn't a feature many people were looking forward to and would have enjoyed.

Going back to the pizza analogy, it's like saying, as long the crust, sauce, and cheese are good (the basic core of a pizza), I don't care if there are other toppings at all.

If you want to eat cheese pizza for the rest of your life, that's fine, but don't take away other topping options from others who want them.

Skinship wouldn't be like introducing ice cream to a pizza shop, it would be like introducing a new topping to the menu, then taking it away because fans of cheese only pizza didn't like it.

Let's try a thought experiment.

How many of these would have to be cut before it's a problem? Would you be fine if Fates removed ALL of these non-essential FE features?

-Multiplayer

-Spotpass

-Skinship

-My Castle

-Reclassing

-Marriages

-Kids

-Casual Mode

-Voice Acting

-Avatar Customization

-Dual Audio

-Pair-up.

-Skills (I'm serious, FE7 and 8 were great without skills, so they can't be THAT important to the core FE experience)

They may not be the core features that make Fire Emblem what it is (tactical RPG gameplay, stories, and characters and supports), but they are very nice to have and make the experience that much more enjoyable. If you don't like these features, you could just not use them and ignore them if you wish.

The difference is that most of these features are well liked by the majority of the FE fan base (although marriage and children are starting to get side-eyed now). Skinship however, was almost universally disliked before the Kotaku article came up with the vast majority of people believing that it was a terrible feature that never should've been in the game in the first place. Not to mention that most of the people against the removal of skinship have more of a problem with censorship in general than defending the feature itself. I can understand getting upset about having features stripped, but you make it sound like they took out something that was actually important rather than a pretty disliked mini-game.

[Zerosabers]

-Multiplayer, A huge gameplay mode. Mass reduction in replayability if removed.

-Spotpass, Kinda part of multiplayer.

-Skinship, A single minigame.

-My Castle, The main base or Hybrid menu. The game needs this.

-Reclassing, Part of the game's core mechanics.

-Marriages, Game mechanics thanks to kids.

-Kids, Entire characters.

-Casual Mode, Lets more people play the game how they want.

-Voice Acting, Eh.

-Avatar Customization, If you have an avatar they should be customizable.

-Dual Audio, Some people might like it, I wouldn't flip out if we didn't have it.

-Pair-up, Core gameplay mechanic.

-Skills, Also a core gameplay mechanic.

Gameplay mechanics are based on Fates and not the series as a whole. So yea, Skinship is small, almost everything else you listed is much more important.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

Here, yardstick: "Is this going to affect how I play through each chapter?"

Anything that's "yes" means that I don't want it to be cut. So reclassing/pair-up are definitely "yes", I can live without skills/avatar existence or customization but I'd file that under "yes", Casual Mode is a split answer because of battle saves, and everything else is "no".

You're wrong about FE8 not having skills - several other classes had specific things they could do (Wyvern Knight pierce). These characteristics were labeled as "skills", IIRC.

And before you go further, I refuse to have things like "healers only getting experience by being attacked".

I understand. You have a very narrow definition of what you want a Fire Emblem game to be.

Taking things down to their core, FE7 had no skills, reclassing, pair up, etc. but it's still my favorite and in my opinion the best FE game. Though a lot of that may have to do with it being the first released in NA and nostalgia. I forgot about FE8 skills, mainly because from what I remember they were so insignificant.

You could entirely play through Awakening without using any skills, pair up, supports, re-classing, grinding etc. That's one way to experience the game, a person could do that if they liked, but that doesn't mean the features need to be removed for those who want them.

I personally like having other features that add flavour and depth to the game. There's nothing wrong with adding additional features to the core game that enhance the experience. I want this huge immersive experience, something that is more than just a tactics game, which Awakening and Fates are doing. Especially if they are completely optional. Why not have them in for those who want them?

In fact, if new things aren't added over time, I'm sure you'll get hordes complaining it's just the same thing over and over again, like with so many "annualized" series.

[Sunwoo]

How many of these would have to be cut before it's a problem? Would you be fine if Fates removed ALL of these non-essential FE features?

-Multiplayer

-Spotpass

-Skinship

-My Castle

-Reclassing

-Marriages

-Kids

-Casual Mode

-Voice Acting

-Avatar Customization

-Dual Audio

-Pair-up.

-Skills (I'm serious, FE7 was great without skills, so they can't be THAT important to the core FE experience)

They may not be the core features that make Fire Emblem what it is (tactical RPG gameplay, stories, and characters and supports), but they are very nice to have and make the experience that much more enjoyable. If you don't like these features, you could just not use them and ignore them if you wish.

I would play a new FE game without any of these, as long as the gameplay was still enjoyable and the story and the characters didn't offend me. Avatar in general, kids, and skinship are three things I actively want gone from a new game anyway.

Skinship is a stupid feature that caused a lot of even stupider backlash and arguments, but the real issue with Fates as a whole (and not just skinship) is that it's actively promoting one thing in the advertisements and promos, but then all of the elements in the story contradict or undermine the story it's trying to tell. Yes, it's optional, but something being optional doesn't stop it from existing and it doesn't stop affecting the atmosphere of the game. Marrying your so-called siblings is also optional. And yet, it undermines the family theme that they're going for. And considering how many avatar/sibling fanwork there is, I'd say a LOT of people have forgotten this game is about family and sibling bonds. Or they don't care.

What's the point of this? My point is that what you consider a problem isn't exactly a problem to other people, and vice versa. The way people are reacting to skinship, you'd think that the entire Fates basically revolved around it and honestly I can't tell whether people are more upset about censorship in general or using that as an excuse to just be mad that they can't rub their waifu or their husbando's face anymore.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Sunwoo

[capmalachi]

Skinship however, was almost universally disliked before the Kotaku article came up with the vast majority of people believing that it was a terrible feature that never should've been in the game in the first place.

That's not true and you know it. The vast majority of people didn't give a shit about it one way or the other.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

The difference is that most of these features are well liked by the majority of the FE fan base (although marriage and children are starting to get side-eyed now). Skinship however, was almost universally disliked before the Kotaku article came up with the vast majority of people believing that it was a terrible feature that never should've been in the game in the first place. Not to mention that most of the people against the removal of skinship have more of a problem with censorship in general than defending the feature itself. I can understand getting upset about having features stripped, but you make it sound like they took out something that was actually important rather than a pretty disliked mini-game.

This is just plain untrue. "Universally disliked"? "Vast majority"? Then why is there such an uproar about it? I've been on other sites and forums, there's plenty of people who wanted in the NA version, far more people are speaking out against the removal, I've seen polls where the vast majority were against the removal of it.

If it's a minor side-feature mini-game that is completely optional and you don't have to use: why does it bother you if you can just ignore it, and leave it there for those who want it? It's already there in the Japanese version, it's already been made.

There's some people here it seems who just want a stripped down core gameplay experience. That's fine. But that can perfectly co-exist with a slew of other optional features that make the game much more enjoyable for others who actually want and enjoy those features.

Edited January 30, 2016 by XaosLogos

[Sunwoo]

There's some people here it seems who just want a stripped down core gameplay experience. That's fine. But that can perfectly co-exist with a slew of other optional features that make the game much more enjoyable for others who actually want and enjoy those features.

The core gameplay isn't being stripped down.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Sunwoo

[riolumaster]

This is just plain untrue. "Universally disliked"? "Vast majority"? Then why is there such an uproar about it? I've been on other sites and forums, there's plenty of people who wanted in the NA version, far more people are speaking out against the removal, I've seen polls where the vast majority were against the removal of it.

If it's a minor side-feature mini-game that is completely optional and you don't have to use: why does it bother you if you can just ignore it, and leave it there for those who want it? It's already there in the Japanese version, it's already been made.

There's some people here it seems who just want a stripped down core gameplay experience. That's fine. But that can perfectly co-exist with a slew of other optional features that make the game much more enjoyable for others who actually want and enjoy those features.

A lot of people on those other places are just complain because they can or because they're against any censorship at all. And saying it was "universally disliked" is a bit of an exaggeration, but saying it was widely anticipated or "a core gameplay experience" is an exaggeration as well. Edited January 30, 2016 by riolumaster

[Xaos Steel Wing]

The core gameplay isn't being stripped down.

That's not what I meant. I meant a game without additional optional features that aren't strictly part of the core single player campaign. I'm not at all saying skinship was part of the "core gameplay experience" but even though it is an additional side feature, that makes it all the easier to ignore if you don't like it without it affecting your "core gameplay experience."

Edited January 30, 2016 by XaosLogos

[Sunwoo]

That's not what I meant. I meant a game without additional optional features that aren't strictly part of the core single player campaign.

And what's wrong with that? Look, I'm not going to say "let's cut out optional content that other people may enjoy because I don't like them", but the way you're acting right now you're acting like enjoying "stripped down gameplay" is bad or something.

[Topaz Light]

Ugh.

Honestly, I sincerely hope that it's out, and I wouldn't mind if the "stripping" effect of Brigand weapons was cut, either.

Because elements like that are like something straight out of a porn game, as opposed to things like skills, multiplayer, etc. which are all sensible and fun offshoots from the main gameplay. Skinship and stripping units do not add to the gameplay in any meaningful way and in fact pull the game towards having a weird, smutty atmosphere that really does not belong in Fire Emblem at all.

I'm all for more ways to interact with the characters! But not like that.

I wouldn't throw a fit or boycott the game or anything if it was still in, but I would be rather disappointed.

Honestly, I hope Intelligent Systems just doesn't make features like that in the future, or if they do, punt it off into a separate game series and stop tainting Fire Emblem with it.

...

Whoops, maybe I got a bit too fired up there. Still, I have only negative feelings about skinshipping and find it hard to be upset at the prospect of it being gone.

[capmalachi]

The point is, people who don't want to use the skinshipping mini-game never had to, but because those people apparently can't just not use it and instead have to insist it's removed entirely, now the people who did want to use it are shit out of luck.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

The point is, people who don't want to use the skinshipping mini-game never had to, but because those people apparently can't just not use it and instead have to insist it's removed entirely, now the people who did want to use it are shit out of luck.

To put it succintly, more or less this.

I love SRPGs in general. I've been playing FE since a few days after FE7 was released. I love other games in the genre such as Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea, Tactics Ogre, even games like Heroes of Might and Magic and Disciples.

I'm not one of those people who jumped on the Awakening marriage bandwagon. But I welcomed the new features with open arms. They add to game, on top of the single player strategy RPG experience, they're fun, and they are optional. If the core game is good and well developed, why can't we have additional features for those who like them?

[Xaos Steel Wing]

And what's wrong with that? Look, I'm not going to say "let's cut out optional content that other people may enjoy because I don't like them", but the way you're acting right now you're acting like enjoying "stripped down gameplay" is bad or something.

It's not. I had one playthrough of Awakening that I called my "oldschool" run: Hard/Classic, no pair up, no skills, no re-classing, no children, no grinding, no forging, no spotpass, no DLC. It was actually very enjoyable, my favorite way of playing the game in fact. Being able to complete the game and enjoy it (without that much difficulty, I might add) without using any of them just shows that none of that is actually that essential to the gameplay of Awakening, that's all. That doesn't mean I think all those things I listed should be absent from the game however, they all make the game a richer experience.

But some people are saying exactly that, "let's cut out optional content that other people may enjoy because I don't like them", and that I do have a problem with.

[Jariu]

New features are fine, new features are great. But then you have this kind of interaction which consists in you being able to call anyone to your rooom to rub them in the face it easily becomes an immersion killer as plenty of character would ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to such an invitation, but hey, you are the player they can't do anything about it. Rub away.

A lot of people play FE because of the characters and that's good, but skinship is most definitevely not the right way to give more character interactions. Even the hotspring thing which is pertty darn useless is way more believable, you just found some dude when you went to the public bath, neat, I guess.

[Time the Crestfallen]

This is just plain untrue. "Universally disliked"? "Vast majority"? Then why is there such an uproar about it? I've been on other sites and forums, there's plenty of people who wanted in the NA version, far more people are speaking out against the removal, I've seen polls where the vast majority were against the removal of it.

If it's a minor side-feature mini-game that is completely optional and you don't have to use: why does it bother you if you can just ignore it, and leave it there for those who want it? It's already there in the Japanese version, it's already been made.

There's some people here it seems who just want a stripped down core gameplay experience. That's fine. But that can perfectly co-exist with a slew of other optional features that make the game much more enjoyable for others who actually want and enjoy those features.

I say Near Universally Disliked because I was here the day skinship was unveiled and the backlash was almost as bad as that against it's removal. If people weren't complaining about 'Waifu Emblem' or how 'Fire Emblem is dead/dying', than they were saying that it was a weird and uncomfortable feature that they weren't going to use. The most I've ever seen people defend it with before Kotaku decided to set Rome the forums on fire was 'cultural differences' rather than the merits of the feature itself and even now, most people I've seen are upset about censorship than they are about skinship itself being the feature removed. So I'll admit that maybe I was wrong about 'near universally', that was a bad exaggeration on my part, but I stand by my belief that more people dislike the feature than there are those who like it.

Also, how about IS in the next game creates an optional feature that everyone (or at least a majority) of people would enjoy? Instead of putting more effort into something that has proven controversial enough that you could create an entirely no salt lake. I'm sure if they put the effort in, they could come up with a way to interact with the characters that isn't so polarising.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Phillius

[capmalachi]

The most I've ever seen people defend it with before Kotaku decided to set Rome the forums on fire was 'cultural differences' rather than the merits of the feature itself

That's because the instant you tried to defend it you were accused of being a pedophile or a rapist or some other such idiocy. Since, at the time, it was in the game and didn't seem to be going anywhere, it wasn't worth the hassle of defending it.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

I say Near Universally Disliked because I was here the day skinship was unveiled and the backlash was almost as bad as that against it's removal. If people weren't complaining about 'Waifu Emblem' or how 'Fire Emblem is dead/dying', than they were saying that it was a weird and uncomfortable feature that they weren't going to use. The most I've ever seen people defend it with before Kotaku decided to set Rome the forums on fire was 'cultural differences' rather than the merits of the feature itself and even now, most people I've seen are upset about censorship than they are about skinship itself being the feature removed. So I'll admit that maybe I was wrong about 'near universally', that was a bad exaggeration on my part, but I stand by my belief that more people dislike the feature than there are those who like it.

Also, how about IS in the next game creates an optional feature that everyone (or at least a majority) of people would enjoy? Instead of putting more effort into something that has proven controversial enough that you could create an entirely no salt lake. I'm sure if they put the effort in, they could come up with a way to interact with the characters that isn't so polarising.

I'll still disagree with you on the first paragraph. I'd say it's really a mixed reaction: some hate it, some love it, a lot just didn't care but oppose the removal being opposed to censorship in principle.

As to the second paragraph, sure. If for a future Fire Emblem IS comes up with a different way of allowing us to interact with characters, I'm all for it. I think a branching dialogue system where you have occasional dialogue choices, and multi-character conversations (as opposed to supports between just 2 characters) could add a lot of great characterization and depth to the story.

But, for Fates, skinship was in the original game, it's what we had, and there really was no need to remove it. If people find it uncomfortable and didn't want to use it, then they could just as easily ignore it and their experience with the game would be no worse off.