Is Fates skinship removal that big of thing?

[The DanMan]

The point is, people who don't want to use the skinshipping mini-game never had to, but because those people apparently can't just not use it and instead have to insist it's removed entirely, now the people who did want to use it are shit out of luck.

Welcome to "It's only a small optional side-feature"-land.

Most of the people who were miffed at skinship were still going to buy the game (those who weren't generally had the decency to shut up and distant themselves from discussions about the game).

Were you going to get the game before it was announced it was in? If you were, why is this such a big deal? If you weren't... .

[capmalachi]

Were you going to get the game before it was announced it was in? If you were, why is this such a big deal? If you weren't... .

I don't want to support a business decision that results in me getting an inferior product to the one another group get, so I'll spend my money on something else. This really isn't all that complicated.

[The DanMan]

I don't want to support a business decision that results in me getting an inferior product to the one another group get, so I'll spend my money on something else. This really isn't all that complicated.

What else can I say, besides your loss.

[capmalachi]

What else can I say, besides your loss.

Not really. I know this is a fire emblem forum, but sometimes it feels like people on here seem to think I'll be missing out on some huge, life changing experience by not buying fates. It's just a game.

[The DanMan]

Not really. I know this is a fire emblem forum, but sometimes it feels like people on here seem to think I'll be missing out on some huge, life changing experience by not buying fates. It's just a game.

Yes, it's a game. A game that I'd bet you'd probably get some fun out of if you got it.

Really, I don't see this discussion going anywhere.

[capmalachi]

Yes, it's a game. A game that I'd bet you'd probably get some fun out of if you got it.

Maybe, but I'd probably get just as much fun out of buying some other game, with the added bonus of not supporting business decisions I don't agree with. Fates is hardly the only game on the market.

[Auro Astum]

Not really. I know this is a fire emblem forum, but sometimes it feels like people on here seem to think I'll be missing out on some huge, life changing experience by not buying fates. It's just a game.

There really isn't much of a way to respond to "i'm not buying this game because I don't want to support this decision". If it is that important to you, great. I support you in making that decision. Not much else to say.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

Maybe, but I'd probably get just as much fun out of buying some other game, with the added bonus of not supporting business decisions I don't agree with. Fates is hardly the only game on the market.

In the end, actions speak louder than words, and for businesses often the only voice that matters is that of your wallet.

I respect your decision not to buy the game because you refuse to support unaccaptable business practices. I've refused to buy certain games I was looking forward to out of principle, because they contained certain DRM, years ago when that was starting to become a problem. Many people did, and some companies actually heard and learned from it.

For Fates, I was vastly looking forward to it and am disappointed by the localization. I might purchase the Japanese version instead and work with that.

Edited January 30, 2016 by XaosLogos

[Time the Crestfallen]

I'll still disagree with you on the first paragraph. I'd say it's really a mixed reaction: some hate it, some love it, a lot just didn't care but oppose the removal being opposed to censorship in principle.

As to the second paragraph, sure. If for a future Fire Emblem IS comes up with a different way of allowing us to interact with characters, I'm all for it. I think a branching dialogue system where you have occasional dialogue choices, and multi-character conversations (as opposed to supports between just 2 characters) could add a lot of great characterization and depth to the story.

But, for Fates, skinship was in the original game, it's what we had, and there really was no need to remove it. If people find it uncomfortable and didn't want to use it, then they could just as easily ignore it and their experience with the game would be no worse off.

Invite people into your room and each of the buttons initiates a type of dialogue; A for Hello, B for Compliment, X for listen and Y for touch. This got posted in the Kotaku thread and it sounded like the best possible implementation.

Anyway, just like how capmalachi isn't buying the game on principle, I think most people's dislike of Skinship is based on principle and not how necessary the feature is. For me, it doesn't really add much other than fanservice in a game that already has fanservice exploding out of every available orifice at Mach 2. The dialogue that actually reveals interesting facts about the world or characters, like quite a few of Nyx's lines are the bits of dialogue that would make the feature worthwhile. However, the dialogue ratio between meaningful lines and "your hand feels so good, are you really touching there? Ara ara~ Kawaii desu ne~" leans disproportionately towards the latter in a game that already has battle panties on every unit it can get away with, the core themes of the game (loyalty, blood and family) broken over it's knee so that people can waifu/husbando the siblings on either side and several characters who's life revolves around the player avatar, who is also the main character and destined to save the world in a plot that will bend over backwards to make sure that he always looks blameless for all the terrible things that happen around him.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Phillius

[Alphine]

Honestly, I never really cared for the concept of this mechanic. I'm against censorship and removal of additional content, but from what I've seen of it and how much it actually affects the gameplay is why I don't really care about it being removed either. The stripping mechanic of the brigand weapons and Sophie's personal skill also don't really matter. Of course, neither does stripping a character in the one part of My Castle, but that part doesn't really have to be taken out since the bathhouses have to be left in, where characters are wearing the same thing.

In terms of skinship being removed by NoA, the argument of it being separated from the game to be prevented from being turned into a waifu sim or w/e is kinda ridiculous imo only because NoA's decision likely does not and will not affect IS's manner of creating a game (unless this whole thing was an experiment that will be isolated for this single game).

I just hope that this will make the western voice actors more happy since they don't have to say the dialogue in those parts (unless they intended to alter the interpretation or perhaps the entirety of the statements that appear in the original version).

I would play a new FE game without any of these, as long as the gameplay was still enjoyable and the story and the characters didn't offend me. Avatar in general, kids, and skinship are three things I actively want gone from a new game anyway.

Skinship is a stupid feature that caused a lot of even stupider backlash and arguments, but the real issue with Fates as a whole (and not just skinship) is that it's actively promoting one thing in the advertisements and promos, but then all of the elements in the story contradict or undermine the story it's trying to tell. Yes, it's optional, but something being optional doesn't stop it from existing and it doesn't stop affecting the atmosphere of the game. Marrying your so-called siblings is also optional. And yet, it undermines the family theme that they're going for. And considering how many avatar/sibling fanwork there is, I'd say a LOT of people have forgotten this game is about family and sibling bonds. Or they don't care.

What's the point of this? My point is that what you consider a problem isn't exactly a problem to other people, and vice versa. The way people are reacting to skinship, you'd think that the entire Fates basically revolved around it and honestly I can't tell whether people are more upset about censorship in general or using that as an excuse to just be mad that they can't rub their waifu or their husbando's face anymore.

Yea, the tone quality is pretty well-compromised with the addition of these sorts of options. I wouldn't admire or feel closer to my leader more for molesting me; if anything, I'd be somewhat afraid knowing I wouldn't be capable of stopping them due to the position I am in.

Tbf, incest could be somewhat implied in previous games, but with Fates, it's almost promoting the idea of incest when I would imagine many people probably wouldn't feel comfortable with the idea. Not to mention the marriage factor, which makes people's expectations rather unrealistic since romance doesn't always work that way, but that's another thing entirely.

The removal of something so insignificant shouldn't really cause this much of an uproar, but I do hope that IS will make the decision to leave it out of the game before releasing it just so then this won't happen again.

[Xaos Steel Wing]

Invite people into your room and each of the buttons initiates a type of dialogue; A for Hello, B for Compliment, X for listen and Y for touch. This got posted in the Kotaku thread and it sounded like the best possible implementation.

Anyway, just like how capmalachi isn't buying the game on principle, I think most people's dislike of Skinship is based on principle and not how necessary the feature is. For me, it doesn't really add much other than fanservice in a game that already has fanservice exploding out of every available orifice at Mach 2. The dialogue that actually reveals interesting facts about the world or characters, like quite a few of Nyx's lines are the bits of dialogue that would make the feature worthwhile. However, the dialogue ratio between meaningful lines and "your hand feels so good, are you really touching there? Ara ara~ Kawaii desu ne~" leans disproportionately towards the latter in a game that already has battle panties on every unit it can get away with, the core themes of the game (loyalty, blood and family) broken over it's knee so that people can waifu/husbando the siblings on either side and several characters who's life revolves around the player avatar, who is also the main character and destined to save the world in a plot that will bend over backwards to make sure that he always looks blameless for all the terrible things that happen around him.

I can understand if people don't like how avatar-centric the game is and that there's too much fanservice. For the player avatar overfocus, perhaps that does detract from what the story could have been, but such is the nature of RPG games with a player avatar. Whether skinship is in there or not, the main story still is still avatar-centric. As for the fanservice, it doesn't bother me. There was a time that it really did irk me long ago, in general, but now I don't care. It's a video game, its supposed to be for fun, and if fanservice attracts more people and they enjoy it, sure, let it be there, let them enjoy it, it doesn't decrease my enjoyment. But that's just me.

We'll see what the replacement is, if anything. If they manage to preserve the models and the meaningful parts of the dialogue, great. Nyx is indeed a great example of where amie does show meaningful character development and information. Yes, a lot of it is fanservice, but it's completely optional fanservice.

The thing is, the skinshipping already is in the original Japanese game. We're not talking about how such a feature could be better designed for a future game, whether it should or shouldn't be there in the next FE and what could be a better replacement. It's a feature present in the Japanese game, the original game as it was intended to be, and now it's being removed. But if IS made it and it was present in the original release, it shouldn't be removed for other audiences, especially if it's such a minor and optional feature as some people say.

Removal of content (artwork, voice, story/dialogue, and gameplay) is removal of content, no matter how you justify it, we are getting less product for the same price.

I'm glad we could have a reasonable discussion after all.

Edited January 30, 2016 by XaosLogos

[Melissa]

1. Yes, it's the biggest deal ever

2. What will they replace it with?

[Time the Crestfallen]

I can understand if people don't like how avatar-centric the game is and that there's too much fanservice. For the player avatar overfocus, perhaps that does detract from what the story could have been, but such is the nature of RPG games with a player avatar. Whether skinship is in there or not, the main story still is still avatar-centric. As for the fanservice, it doesn't bother me. There was a time that it really did irk me long ago, in general, but now I don't care. It's a video game, its supposed to be for fun, and if fanservice attracts more people and they enjoy it, sure, let it be there, let them enjoy it, it doesn't decrease my enjoyment. But that's just me.

We'll see what the replacement is, if anything. If they manage to preserve the models and the meaningful parts of the dialogue, great. Nyx is indeed a great example of where amie does show meaningful character development and information. Yes, a lot of it is fanservice, but it's completely optional fanservice.

The thing is, the skinshipping already is in the original Japanese game. We're not talking about how such a feature could be better designed for a future game, whether it should or shouldn't be there in the next FE and what could be a better replacement. It's a feature present in the Japanese game, the original game as it was intended to be, and now it's being removed. But if IS made it and it was present in the original release, it shouldn't be removed for other audiences, especially if it's such a minor and optional feature as some people say.

Removal of content (artwork, voice, story/dialogue, and gameplay) is removal of content, no matter how you justify it, we are getting less product for the same price.

I'm glad we could have a reasonable discussion after all.

None of the fanservice elements are deal breakers by themselves, but when you throw them all together in the same game it starts to feel like IS are more interested in making a game designed to draw people in with dem titties (Camilla) and other fanservice-y elements than they are in making a good game. Skinship just gets most of the attention because, while it's the worst example of fanservice in the game in my opinion, it's just the shit-flavoured icing on top of the dirt and mud cake that is the games fanservice.

Besides, I guess the censorship of skinship in the US seems kind of weak to me. After you live to see the Australain/German release of Left 4 Dead 2 (and Australian censorship in general for that matter), most other things seem very weaksauce. I can understand why you'd be upset about skinship being cut on a basis of principle, but we won't be able to agree on whether it's right or not as we likely have very different levels of tolerance of censorship.

Anyway, I am also glad we could be reasonable about this. It's a refreshing change of pace after all the more heated debates (to put it generously...).

[Knight]

For those arguing that it was not an essential or core part of Fire Emblem - that doesn't mean it wasn't a feature many people were looking forward to and would have enjoyed.

Going back to the pizza analogy, it's like saying, as long the crust, sauce, and cheese are good (the basic core of a pizza), I don't care if there are other toppings at all.

If you want to eat cheese pizza for the rest of your life, that's fine, but don't take away other topping options from others who want them.

Skinship wouldn't be like introducing ice cream to a pizza shop, it would be like introducing a new topping to the menu, then taking it away because fans of cheese only pizza didn't like it.

But I disagree, I don't consider skinship a topping, at least not ones that belong on pizza. The core of a pizza is important, that is, the crust, sauce and cheese, but there are certain toppings that compliment it, like meat, peppers, and you can even add out-there toppings like pineapple if you wish and experiment with a wide-range of toppings.

However, ice cream should not be a part of pizza whatsoever, at least not without replacing some of the core toppings. You could replace the tomato sauce with chocalate and the cheese with icing, but you've taken two of the essential parts of a pizza out to accommodate for the ice cream.

What I'm trying to say is FE Fates is a pizza where they've kept the tomato sauce and cheese, but have added ice cream and now it doesn't taste good. Or rather what I should say is that petting simulators don't belong in a series about tactical medieval warfare. At least it being optional, they've kept it to one corner of the pizza that I can eat around, but I'd much rather that corner have been more of my favourite ham and pineapple, fuck now I'm hungry of course, there are picky eaters who think the whole thing's contaminated now and like things extra salty.

Nintendo of America's "solution" seems to be to cut that part of the pizza away entirely, but now it's a little bit less of a pizza. Not that I'm complaining, I wasn't going to eat it to begin with, but I'd much rather have a full pizza of what I want (ie all the ingredients that DO make a medieval tactics game.)

[Baldrick]

Going back to the pizza analogy, it's like saying, as long the crust, sauce, and cheese are good (the basic core of a pizza), I don't care if there are other toppings at all.

I wouldn't consider the touching minigame to be a topping. If the base of the pizza is the genre, the toppings are features that have a direct impact on gameplay.

To my knowledge, he only aspect of skinship that affects the gameplay is the support bonuses you get from it. According to IGN, you can still invite people to your room and get these..

Let's try a thought experiment.

How many of these would have to be cut before it's a problem? Would you be fine if Fates removed ALL of these non-essential FE features?

-Multiplayer

-Spotpass

-Skinship

-My Castle

-Reclassing

-Marriages

-Kids (though I prefer how FE4 did it)

-Casual Mode

-Voice Acting

-Avatar Customization (appearance, gender)

-Avatar Customization (asset/flaw, class)

-Dual Audio

-Pair-up.

-Skills (I'm serious, FE7 was great without skills, so they can't be THAT important to the core FE experience)

Red is what I personally wouldn't object to being removed, blue is what I would on the basis of altering the strategy.

[wallhadrian]

For Fates, I was vastly looking forward to it and am disappointed by the localization. I might purchase the Japanese version instead and work with that.

I'm telling you now, do it. With the recent thread stating dual audio being out, I feel blessed that I don't have to worry about anything else being taken away anymore.

[The DanMan]

I'm telling you now, do it. With the recent thread stating dual audio being out, I feel blessed that I don't have to worry about anything else being taken away anymore.

A recent thread that mentions a gamefaqs thread and an e-mail that supplies a non-answer.

Wait for solid evidence before jumping the gun.

[Melissa]

I'll be salty if they axe My Castle

[wallhadrian]

A recent thread that mentions a gamefaqs thread and an e-mail that supplies a non-answer.

Wait for solid evidence before jumping the gun.

Okay, that's good advice to the person I responded to. You have a good point.

But, in my case it makes little difference, there are other confirmed things I wasn't happy with, and I'll be going back to Japan pretty soon, so I would have had to trade in anyways. If I couldn't read Japanese or had no need for a Japanese 3DS, I would have thought a little harder. I just assumed the person I responded to could at least read it and also afford/already had a Japanese 3DS, but it is good to think harder over it...

Edited January 31, 2016 by PopteenPrincess

[PuffPuff]

That's because the instant you tried to defend it you were accused of being a pedophile or a rapist or some other such idiocy. Since, at the time, it was in the game and didn't seem to be going anywhere, it wasn't worth the hassle of defending it.

Yes.

But...not everyone is like some others are...

Still it wasn't fair to take that away from everyone.

Maybe, but I'd probably get just as much fun out of buying some other game, with the added bonus of not supporting business decisions I don't agree with. Fates is hardly the only game on the market.

Well...I'm also waiting for Hyrule Legends as well as the pre-releases of the gameboy stuff in the e-shop. Pokemon Red/Blue version in the e-shop, oh yeah! I'm only buying it because the fan translation is something that I wouldn't tread over water with.

[maybe]

2. What will they replace it with?

card games

[Zerosabers]

card games

Go fish only, to remove implications of gambling.

[eclipse]

I understand. You have a very narrow definition of what you want a Fire Emblem game to be.

Taking things down to their core, FE7 had no skills, reclassing, pair up, etc. but it's still my favorite and in my opinion the best FE game. Though a lot of that may have to do with it being the first released in NA and nostalgia. I forgot about FE8 skills, mainly because from what I remember they were so insignificant.

You could entirely play through Awakening without using any skills, pair up, supports, re-classing, grinding etc. That's one way to experience the game, a person could do that if they liked, but that doesn't mean the features need to be removed for those who want them.

I personally like having other features that add flavour and depth to the game. There's nothing wrong with adding additional features to the core game that enhance the experience. I want this huge immersive experience, something that is more than just a tactics game, which Awakening and Fates are doing. Especially if they are completely optional. Why not have them in for those who want them?

In fact, if new things aren't added over time, I'm sure you'll get hordes complaining it's just the same thing over and over again, like with so many "annualized" series.

It sounds like you took offense at my answer. . .please explain why. Other than the healer thing (which was a reference to FE1) and the correction of a factual error you made, I didn't see what warranted it.

You asked what I was okay with cutting out, and I gave an answer. All it means is that it's stuff I don't want to be taken out. . .it doesn't mean that I don't want change, either. See my favorite game? Shadow Dragon? Guess what that introduced?

And what's wrong with that? Look, I'm not going to say "let's cut out optional content that other people may enjoy because I don't like them", but the way you're acting right now you're acting like enjoying "stripped down gameplay" is bad or something.

I can learn how to live without certain things, like optional content. That's why I'm okay with a lot of things being cut - as long as I can play the game and remember why I love Fire Emblem, I'll be happy.

The point is, people who don't want to use the skinshipping mini-game never had to, but because those people apparently can't just not use it and instead have to insist it's removed entirely, now the people who did want to use it are shit out of luck.

My attitude on skinship was "maybe I'll use this for some gameplay experimentation, but otherwise, it's not for me." I don't think that it's fair to those of us who disliked it but would tolerate its presence. Kinda like how Casual Mode was (though Casual Mode DOES offer battle saves, and boy do I adore battle saves).

But some people are saying exactly that, "let's cut out optional content that other people may enjoy because I don't like them", and that I do have a problem with.

Don't assume this about anyone. It makes my life more difficult.

Not really. I know this is a fire emblem forum, but sometimes it feels like people on here seem to think I'll be missing out on some huge, life changing experience by not buying fates. It's just a game.

BINGO~!

Which also means that the inclusion/removal of features is pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things. This is why my first two posts in this thread were pretty insipid.

Red is what I personally wouldn't object to being removed, blue is what I would on the basis of altering the strategy.

Nitpick time~!

Avatar gender matters if you want to keep marriage in.

---

I think the take-away from most of what I quoted above is the following:

1. I've learned how to live without various things

2. Just because I can doesn't mean that I'd wish that on everyone (PM me if you want to eat like me for a week, you WILL learn the meaning of "living without")

3. Not everyone who was against skinship wanted it removed for their own tastes

Believe it or not, there's a middle ground, and there's multiple people standing on it. Don't turn this into some sort of weird us-versus-them deal, because that just makes my job harder.

[TanatatKnight]

Personally, I am slightly disappointed that I don't get to fulfill some sort of deep fantasy concerning skinship but I also agree that it would get creepy as well as unneeded. I can feel it becoming a chore after 5-10 uses of the system in which I would completely not care about it anymore. What I am worried about is the lost of character and dialogue.

So far, from what I heard about is that the whole petting thing is taken out and you are just cut right into the dialogue (A little confusing here) before fade to black and boom, you get your bonus. I REALLY hope that is what they are going for and not just cutting the entire thing out and replacing it with small "barrack" conversations.

Still going to buy the game anyway, regardless. Might as well buy the japanese version too, in order to give skinship a try.

Edited January 31, 2016 by TanatatKnight

[ChaosGallade]

Meh, the skinship removal isn't a big deal to me. I don't want to get awkward looks from other people while I'm playing on the bus, so I'm okay whether or not skinship actually stays.

Edited January 31, 2016 by ChaosGallade