How would you improve Assassins?

[Falaflame]

I honestly feel Assassins are a rather underwhelming class.

They have the lowest class caps in the game. Lethality in whole is underwhelming due to the fact it only activates half the crits you activate. As well, you don't get any assassins until far too late into the game.

And, as a kick to the shin, none of the characters you get makes full maximizing use of the class and skills.

-Matthew has the best affinity and support selections, but has the worst skill out of the 3 assassins by far, which hampers consistently pulling off Lethality.
-Jaffar is probably the only possibility of capping skill, but lacks the affinity and support selections to pull it off on a consistent basis.
-Legault's skill is rather middling even with HM Boosts, and also lacks the affinity and support selections to also pull it off effectively.

And even still, Here are the best case scenarios.

Legault: A+B Support, Killing Edge, 24 skill (HM Average), Thor's Ire Buff, S-Rank -> 69 crit against 0 luck enemies -> 34% Lethality
Matthew A+B Support, Killing Edge, 19 skill (Average), Thor's Ire Buff, S-Rank -> 79 crit against 0 luck enemies -> 39% Lethality

Jaffar A+B Support, Killing Edge, 28 skill (Average), Thor's Ire Buff, S-Rank -> 71 crit against 0 luck enemies -> 35% Lethality

Best case scenarios are all sitting in the mid-to-high 30's, and I'm really only on the fence of whether or not thats a chance to take in a live-fire spot, especially sine they are all situational. Am I honestly better off going with something like a silver sword or brave sword (or Regal Blade if I get access to one), and hope for a regular crit under the same circumstances? Or better yet, go with a unit with much higher strength caps and better weapon selection and have them take care of the foe?

Either way, I think that illustrates the point I'm trying to make. Assassins are rather underpowered. If there's a way to make them better, what would be the ideal solution? Higher caps? (like 23-24 str/22 defenses) Higher lethality rate? (75% instead of 50%?) Put in characters with more fitting affinities, supports, and stats to back it up?

Just some random thoughts I came up with while bored.

[Axie]

caps are not the problem when neither matthew nor legault hit the cap of 20 as it is anyway. jaffar comes with 19 str but 15% growth with 7 levels to go; raising the cap would not do anything

matthew and legault would need to have better bases/growths for combat and, well, combat is not the point of those two. jaffar could have a higher str growth/cap but he already does well as it is

and to top it off lethality is superfluous because even matthew and legault will usually one-round the weak fe7 enemies if they double and crit at least once

assassins are not underpowered per se, they are just in the weird position of being a combat class promoted from a non-combat class, whose skill is wasted on weak enemies. what needs to be fixed is: easier access to them and stronger enemies so the skill is actually useful/necessary.

[Darros]

Haven't assassins been improved in the newer games? Pass is pretty cool, and having bows is also a nice touch that I like at least.

[ruadath]

Honestly, I think the assassins are fine as they stand, although I would not take away their ability to steal.

[General Horace]

Yeah, I think FE7 should have just made Legault/Matthew promote to Rogues and had Jaffar as his own standalone assassin for plot related reasons. Thieves aren't supposed to be fighters but a more utility based class, and the promotion to assassin takes some of that utility away.

[Falaflame]

Haven't assassins been improved in the newer games? Pass is pretty cool, and having bows is also a nice touch that I like at least.

Not gonna deny that they became a lot more useful in later games, but in FE7 and especially FE8, I don't see them being any more useful than the other classes you get access to.

caps are not the problem when neither matthew nor legault hit the cap of 20 as it is anyway. jaffar comes with 19 str but 15% growth with 7 levels to go; raising the cap would not do anything

matthew and legault would need to have better bases/growths for combat and, well, combat is not the point of those two. jaffar could have a higher str growth/cap but he already does well as it is

and to top it off lethality is superfluous because even matthew and legault will usually one-round the weak fe7 enemies if they double and crit at least once

assassins are not underpowered per se, they are just in the weird position of being a combat class promoted from a non-combat class, whose skill is wasted on weak enemies. what needs to be fixed is: easier access to them and stronger enemies so the skill is actually useful/necessary.

You do have a point. A lot of enemies in FE7 have really low AS for w/e reason (even swordmasters can be DA'd by any of the 3) and enemies with high enough defense not to be ORKO'd by two regular crits are few and far between. It just feels odd, though, how some of the characters aren't actually built to be assassins (Especially Legault), or require multiple supports to become an effective one (Matthew).

They're also the same way in FE8, but worse in the fact that you don't even get the benefit to buff their crit rates with Thor's Ire. (Well, I guess you could glitch the game and turn enemies into stone. I guess that's something?) Though FE8 has a character that has the stats AND support bonuses to make full extensive use of the class, and has, well, Wo Dao, another problem is, the enemies are even weaker in that game than they were in FE7. So, RIP in pepperoni.

Edit: Not to mention enemies have an actual luck stat in FE8.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Falaflame

[Shadow Mir]

Haven't assassins been improved in the newer games? Pass is pretty cool, and having bows is also a nice touch that I like at least.

They have, but I'd disagree on Pass since it just feels underwhelming for an extended stay in Assassin.

Not gonna deny that they became a lot more useful in later games, but in FE7 and especially FE8, I don't see them being any more useful than the other classes you get access to.

You do have a point. A lot of enemies in FE7 have really low AS for w/e reason (even swordmasters can be DA'd by any of the 3) and enemies with high enough defense not to be ORKO'd by two regular crits are few and far between. It just feels odd, though, how some of the characters aren't actually built to be assassins (Especially Legault), or require multiple supports to become an effective one (Matthew).

They're also the same way in FE8, but worse in the fact that you don't even get the benefit to buff their crit rates with Thor's Ire. (Well, I guess you could glitch the game and turn enemies into stone. I guess that's something?) Though FE8 has a character that has the stats AND support bonuses to make full extensive use of the class, and has, well, Wo Dao, another problem is, the enemies are even weaker in that game than they were in FE7. So, RIP in pepperoni.

Edit: Not to mention enemies have an actual luck stat in FE8.

It doesn't help that the few enemy types that a Silencer WOULD be helpful on tend to have better methods of killing.

[Carmine Sword]

GBA Assassins (besides Jaffar who is a combat unit) are clearly IS punishing you for going out of your way to use a utility unit as a combat unit.

Like, Assassins have the worst promotion bonuses ever for no real reason. Kind of makes me wonder what their promotion bonuses would be in FE6 where every class had decent promotion bonuses.

[Shadow Mir]

Like, Assassins have the worst promotion bonuses ever for no real reason. Kind of makes me wonder what their promotion bonuses would be in FE6 where every class had decent promotion bonuses.

Heh. I'd argue Warrior promotion bonuses are worse because of no speed gain when the characters who promote into it would desperately need some.

[Falaflame]

Heh. I'd argue Warrior promotion bonuses are worse because of no speed gain when the characters who promote into it would desperately need some.

That's more charater-specific than class specific, I'd say, because Ross does well enough without the speed boosts, I would think in FE8. In FE7 on the other hand, I would agree.

Even still, Assassin's bonuses are still worse because they require a one-in-a-lifetime item (the only time you get another one is lolCh30), AND they have lower defense and res promotion bonuses than Warriors while ALSO gaining no speed. Warriors, as well, gain access to +2 skill patching up their already shaky accuracy with axes while Assassins get fuck-all.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Falaflame

[Colonel M]

Yeah, I think FE7 should have just made Legault/Matthew promote to Rogues and had Jaffar as his own standalone assassin for plot related reasons. Thieves aren't supposed to be fighters but a more utility based class, and the promotion to assassin takes some of that utility away.

Pretty much this.

Assassins aren't really that bad per se, but the loss of being able to steal (unlike what Rogues have, mind) is really disappointing. Assassins can occasionally cheese an enemy and gain a hefty amount of CEXP just for doing so. Like combat-wise they're really not that much worse than Swordmasters since Swordmasters will not realistically see their Strength cap (barring super-casual mode with either RNG abuse, blessing, or hefty resource distribution) and the only real grab that Swordmasters have is +15% Critical Hit ratio (and +1 Str / Con but Joshua's and Rutger's Con isn't that horrendous - just Guy's). I'm not saying Assassins > Swordmasters (quite the contrary, Swordmasters are still better than Assassins), but GBA Assassins really aren't too bad outside of the Legault / Matthew which have to sacrifice stealing and waiting a LONG TIME to promote.

As far as other ways to improve Assassins they just should retain the capability to steal back in FE7 and having the Fel Contract come along sooner. Those two alone would make using Assassins like Matthew and Legault a bit easier to use. Higher promotion gains might help, but if they retained their Thief utility I don't really see the huge need for it. Probably wouldn't hurt to have Crit added to their class too (probably just +5%).

[ruadath]

As far as other ways to improve Assassins they just should retain the capability to steal back in FE7 and having the Fel Contract come along sooner.

Also, for ranked context, make their promo item not worth 50k (same for ocean seal for pirates).

[Shadow Mir]

That's more charater-specific than class specific, I'd say, because Ross does well enough without the speed boosts, I would think in FE8. In FE7 on the other hand, I would agree.

Even still, Assassin's bonuses are still worse because they require a one-in-a-lifetime item (the only time you get another one is lolCh30), AND they have lower defense and res promotion bonuses than Warriors while ALSO gaining no speed. Warriors, as well, gain access to +2 skill patching up their already shaky accuracy with axes while Assassins get fuck-all.

I guess you have a point, but I say that more because Fighter is already the epitome of scrubitude as far as unpromoted classes go, and no speed gain on promotion does NOT help their case any.

[edgelordweeb]

Higher strength cap, higher strength growth for Legault and Matthew, higher defense cap(maybe). Lethality doesn't need to be buffed, having lethality proc in the 20-35% range is perfectly fine how it is, also don't take away the ability to steal upon promotion. There, that's all that's necessary to fix assassins.