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I'm on the side saying that Mist can't deal damage for shit (Unless she has a Wind Sword, but there's like only 1 in the game, it only has 25 uses, and it's rank B so...)

If you want Mist to be more than just a healer, then you gotta cough up alot of gold and then think to yourself if she's really worth it.

A Steel Sword forge isn't that expensive, for one. Second, there are very few characters who'd actually want the Arms Scrolls. Third, most of the enemies she'd do well fighting are mages and fighters, who suck defensively.

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Astrid is even harder to train than Rolf, and by the time you get her, Rolf is much stronger. And she DOES come in late. She comes in at chapter 14 at level ONE. It doesn't matter if she has Paragon, if you can't feed her kills, it doesn't do squat for her. And I can never get her kills because the enemies are too strong at that point.

Rolf is better to me, deal with it.

I wasn't relying on memory. I was relying on my experience in multiple playthroughs.

Astrid has more move than Rolf, and can canto. What this means is that Astrid can reach farther than Rolf, and can go into a group of enemies to do some chip damage and come back to safety. So Astrid inherently has those (huge) advantages, but what about Rolf? Surely his chapter lead makes way better than Astrid when she joins right? Then problem with Rolf is that there is no benefit to deploying him over any other unit until the first boat chapter where bows would be very useful. So unless you're not only using Rolf consistently, but going out of your way to give him levels, he's actually not very far ahead of Astrid. Astrid has those advantages I mentioned that provide better payoff than Rolf in the long run, and those advantages combined with paragon helps reach that payoff quickly enough to just bench Rolf forever the next chapter because it's clear he won't be ahead very long. She doesn't even need kills to get off the ground, paragon chip damage is enough.

It's fine if you like Rolf and like using him, but you're going to make a claim that he is objectively better than Mist and Astrid then of course that could lead to discussion and criticism of that claim.

Then don't rely on that experience.

Edited by DavidSW

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Astrid does have more movement and Canto, but that's all she has going for her. I'm not going to agree that she's better than Rolf, I'm sorry. If she had a better join time, then I would probably agree, but she doesn't.

Edited by Anacybele

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Astrid does have more movement and Canto, but that's all she has going for her. I'm not going to agree that she's better than Rolf, I'm sorry. If she had a better join time, then I would probably agree, but she doesn't.

That sounds like it'd be worth more than whatever Rolf has going for him, which is... being useful in the chapter right before Astrid joins, as I see it (he can't really claim to be useful enough to be worth booting someone else out for any of his other chapters after joining and before that). And no mention of Paragon?

Edited by Levant Colthearts

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Astrid does have more movement and Canto, but that's all she has going for her. I'm not going to agree that she's better than Rolf, I'm sorry. If she had a better join time, then I would probably agree, but she doesn't.

You're forgetting paragon which is kinda the biggest thing that makes her worth any investment.

But how much does Rolf's extra join time mean if for nearly all of it it's more beneficial to deploy someone else instead? By the time enemy flyers are relevant Astrid shows up to catch up with the rest of the team in a few chapters. Availability may be an important factor in usefulness for many characters, but it's still just a part of the equation. Rolf doesn't make use of those extra chapters, and while not as good Astrid's availability is still good, so there isn't ground for Rolf to stand on in this argument.

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I like Rolf and all but he just doesn't hold a candle to Astrid. Even after getting a few BEXP levels, she still gets a level for basically every kill. She will reach lv21 in the blink of an eye, at which point she can immediately start stomping with Steel Axes alongside the other mounts.

Edited by BrightBow

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Doesn't Rolf join, like, 2 chapters before Astrid? He's not even a good unit for those chapters, and considering Astrid has Paragon she's much easier to train and will become useful a lot faster than Rolf. Plus she has extra movement and isn't bow-locked when promoted. Astrid is objectively better in almost every way.

Anyway, Titania, Oscar and Marcia are some of the best units in the game. Personally I like using Boyd, Gatrie, Volke and Nephenee but i'm not sure how efficent they are objectively.

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You're forgetting paragon which is kinda the biggest thing that makes her worth any investment.

No, I didn't forget it. Paragon can only kick in if you can actually have Astrid attack and that's if she doesn't get killed trying due to how underleveled she is. I found it hard to keep her alive.

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Rolf joins at the start of Chapter 9, Astrid joins early on in Chapter 13. Rolf does have a decent amount of time to start training to establish a lead over Astrid, but it's evened out by Astrid's mount, Paragon and the ability to use Axes on Promotion if you choose. Honestly, I like Rolf and all (I've used him til Endgame before), but Astrid is probably the better unit overall. Bare in mind though that PoR is probably only a notch above Sacred Stones in terms of overall difficulty and BEXP exists, so you could use them BOTH and still come out fine.

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No, I didn't forget it. Paragon can only kick in if you can actually have Astrid attack and that's if she doesn't get killed trying due to how underleveled she is. I found it hard to keep her alive.

Why are you making Astrid attack enemies that can attack back? That's not how you archer.

There's no way to say this without being blunt, every problem you've posted about Mist and Astrid has more to do with player error than unit error.

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Why are you making Astrid attack enemies that can attack back? That's not how you archer.

There's no way to say this without being blunt, every problem you've posted about Mist and Astrid has more to do with player error than unit error.

I didn't say that. I mean they get to her on the enemy phase because I can't get her far away enough and still recruit Gatrie at the same time. I like Gatrie. He's the only reason I recruit Astrid.

Besides, a lot of those enemy units are soldiers who can use ranged weapons no matter what.

Edited by Anacybele

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I have no idea how this topic turned into a Rolf vs Astrid thread XD

Anyway thanks for the suggestions everyone! I have a follow up question while I'm at it. How good are the magic units in this game? I heard that Soren is good, Tormad is decent with some BeXP and I've heard mixed things about Ilyana.

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Astrid's Paragon means that, on a normal mode run, shes like to be promoted by chapter 17's first round. If not sooner, tbh because of BEXP. Astrid also has the fruggin' Knight Ward which will mean she gets this ultra bomb speed growth boost. (plus it gives her +2 to defense) Astrid's growths are also pretty good in general. Shes not going to be sitting in her base class for very long. Feeding her is easy as hell. Once shes promoted, you give her a forge of whatever weapon you selected for her melee and welp. Let the roflstomp begin. Astrid is not difficult to train at all. Astrid > Rolf any day. Sorry, thems are the breaks.

I didn't say that. I mean they get to her on the enemy phase because I can't get her far away enough and still recruit Gatrie at the same time. I like Gatrie. He's the only reason I recruit Astrid.

Besides, a lot of those enemy units are soldiers who can use ranged weapons no matter what.

Recruiting Astrid doesnt require much other than a couple of guys with good move blocking the path where enemies can get to her. Its...really easy and you need to take advantage of repositioning your guys at the start of the map, to really get a drop on it. Also Jill, even if untrained, is good here for creating a buffer so you can get to Astrid before she tries to attack junk and get in the range of bad guys. Astrid's AI is never going to go after a guy with ranged weapons. Careful positioning and knowing the layout is key here. DavidSW is right, player error is to blame here.

Astrid is a good unit, OP, and worth using. Paladin/Cav units are kinda broken in this game, just so ya know.

Anyway thanks for the suggestions everyone! I have a follow up question while I'm at it. How good are the magic units in this game? I heard that Soren is good, Tormad is decent with some BeXP and I've heard mixed things about Ilyana.

Soren is best mage. Calill is good because she comes prepromoted with good weapon ranks. However, the game is a chump and makes her use knives as a secondary. Never have your mages use knives as a secondary if you can help it. Bastian and Calill for some reason, do. Tormod is ok but a little tricky to raise because he joins at a low level and doesnt have Astrid's boons with him. But hes not bad at all. Ilyana is ok in this game but im biased against her personally. Soren is really the one with the best mag growth. He joins hella early and just...you get a lot of mileage out of him. (im biased towards him tbh lmao) He makes a good staff user as a secondary upon promotion too. Getting his thunder rank up and having him use Bolting is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Edited by Loki Laufeyson

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I have no idea how this topic turned into a Rolf vs Astrid thread XD

Anyway thanks for the suggestions everyone! I have a follow up question while I'm at it. How good are the magic units in this game? I heard that Soren is good, Tormad is decent with some BeXP and I've heard mixed things about Ilyana.

The magic units aren't that great, sadly.

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As far as magic users go;

I don't think knives hurt Calill too much, Sages don't get much too much use out of their secondaries in general. Soren and Ilyana are good early game magic users, Tormod can be bexp-ed if you want a high move sage(I've never used him myself so), and Calilll is basically staff-less Pent which is still a good combat unit. Bastion gets the short end of the stick unfortunately.

Magic users in general tend to get overshadowed by mounts(this happens a lot in PoR) so Calill is probably the best because she can instantly use siege tomes and is generally good without any effort. But unless you specifically want to use the absolute best characters, Soren and/or Ilyana are fine. Really any character can be usable in this game easily enough.

Edited by DavidSW

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The list is not a tier list by any means, and I'm not talking about how "useful" they are over the entire game. I'm just saying good etc if they start out good and end up good. Because some like Muarim, are nice to have in the midgame, but are pretty medicore by the end.

Best units:

The ones here are the only ones that I'd say are pretty much must haves because they kick some much tail that you'd notice their lack of presence.

Reyson

Oscar

Titania

Kieran

*Marcia - If you're into LTCs she's very useful.

*Tormod - if you promote him right away (or after a couple of BEXP levels to say 15), he's the best healer in terms of practical usage and offensive power when he's not healing. Plus his skill lets him run farther for more physic range and keeping up with your mounted units.

Boyd

Units that are generally decent but require some steam to get good are next:

Good Units:

Jill - Might need some BEXP a bit as her speed is iffy when she starts-- mainly in comparison to everyone else's levels.

*Brom - With the Knight Ward is pretty solid as it increases your speed growth, and Reyson can help cover the movement problems. Especially if you give Reyson the knights ring.

Astrid - Starts low level, but looking at an enemy funny levels her. She'll easily catch up in level and surpass most of your units. Can get axes on promotion.

Makalov

*Soren - Garbage if you don't actually use him from the moment you get him.

*Ilyana - Just give her a speed wing, and her shaky speed is eliminated and her magic deficiency is made up for.

Nephenee

Tanith

Average Joes:

Zihark

Largo

Volke

Gatrie

*Mordecai - Can be good if you give him two speed wings or he gets lucky with speed levels.

Rhys

Mist

Geoffery

Ranulf

Stefan

Calill - She'd be good if she had staves instead of knives. As it stands, she's a so-so fighter with horrible utility.

And these people are certainly usable but never actually are good. There are some like Mia that can have tricks like Vantage / Wrath to be less bad, but overall, I'd say it's not worth putting up with her.

Ike isn't on here because you have to use him, so it doesn't matter how good he is (he's good though). I may have forgotten someone, but that list is good enough.

Edited by Augestein

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Recruiting Astrid doesnt require much other than a couple of guys with good move blocking the path where enemies can get to her. Its...really easy and you need to take advantage of repositioning your guys at the start of the map, to really get a drop on it. Also Jill, even if untrained, is good here for creating a buffer so you can get to Astrid before she tries to attack junk and get in the range of bad guys. Astrid's AI is never going to go after a guy with ranged weapons. Careful positioning and knowing the layout is key here. DavidSW is right, player error is to blame here.

Astrid is a good unit, OP, and worth using. Paladin/Cav units are kinda broken in this game, just so ya know.

Did you even read my post? I never said anything about recruiting Astrid being a problem. I said RECRUITING GATRIE IS. Only Astrid can recruit him and that requires bringing her into enemy territory because Gatrie always wants to kill things. I can actually get the recruitment part down fine, it's just that after, Astrid almost always dies. Player error is not to blame here at all. I'm not a terrible player. I may not be an FE expert, but I don't suck like you all are implying. And I wish you wouldn't imply that, thank you.

Astrid is a bad unit and not worth using in my eyes, end of story already.

Edited by Anacybele

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Why don't you just rescue Astrid with Jill/Marcia, so that she doesn't die

Player Error is to blame because you're not trying to seriously use a unit. There's videos documenting how to do this on the maximum difficulty settings (higher than what American versions even offer). Give some of them a watch to check out procedures

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The one and only thing that truly sucks about STELLAAAAA Astrid is that she went from High Tier in FE9 to Low Tier in FE10. It's seriously painful to witness.

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Did you even read my post? I never said anything about recruiting Astrid being a problem. I said RECRUITING GATRIE IS. Only Astrid can recruit him and that requires bringing her into enemy territory because Gatrie always wants to kill things. I can actually get the recruitment part down fine, it's just that after, Astrid almost always dies. Player error is not to blame here at all. I'm not a terrible player. I may not be an FE expert, but I don't suck like you all are implying. And I wish you wouldn't imply that, thank you.

Astrid is a bad unit and not worth using in my eyes, end of story already.

Have you considered shoving Ike to get to her on turn 1?

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I may not be an FE expert, but I don't suck like you all are implying. And I wish you wouldn't imply that, thank you.

That's called playing the victim card, don't act as if someone tried to insult you just because they criticize your arguments and the playstyle you're suggesting. Making mistakes is not the same as being bad.

Astrid is a bad unit and not worth using in my eyes, end of story already.

You have no reason to be surprised at people calling you out on spreading your completely subjective preferences when the title says "best units" and not "your favorite units".

I said RECRUITING GATRIE IS. Only Astrid can recruit him and that requires bringing her into enemy territory because Gatrie always wants to kill things. I can actually get the recruitment part down fine, it's just that after, Astrid almost always dies. Player error is not to blame here at all.

You can easily use your mounted units to kill/block the enemies that threaten her and recruit her and Gatrie on turn 1 (shove Ike) or simply on turn 2. Your arguments indicate that you simply didn't strategize enough to get her to safety. Player error is to blame because you have the options to move onto a safe tile or make a protective formation, yet choose against it. Don't expect people not to correct you when you try to use experience from suboptimal strategies to your convenience.

Edited by Gradivus.

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Also, another thing: Rolf has trouble picking up kills since his chip is poor. To put it in perspective, in his join chapter, he:

Tinks Knights

5HKOs Fighters and Bandits (most of whom tend to be on the beach terrain and take less damage)

5HKOs Archers (who 2HKO him in return and might even crit him)

3HKOs Mages (who, again, 2HKO him in return)

3-4HKOs Myrms (a good deal of those happen to be on the beach too)

6HKOs Soldiers

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Did you even read my post? I never said anything about recruiting Astrid being a problem. I said RECRUITING GATRIE IS. Only Astrid can recruit him and that requires bringing her into enemy territory because Gatrie always wants to kill things. I can actually get the recruitment part down fine, it's just that after, Astrid almost always dies. Player error is not to blame here at all. I'm not a terrible player. I may not be an FE expert, but I don't suck like you all are implying. And I wish you wouldn't imply that, thank you.

Astrid is a bad unit and not worth using in my eyes, end of story already.

What part of 8 move and canto do you not understand? This is entirely player error, as made evident by the very simple ways to do this simple task that have been brought up here.

You're not a victim here, there have been no attacks on you or skill at Fire Emblem, just reasonable arguments. Also playing the victim card is especially insulting from someone who used false information to back up an argument and got defensive and then ignored when it was called out.

Apologies to OP if this debate has derailed things from what you wanted to know.

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You can't go wrong with Tormod oh my god he's the best. Best mage absolutely.

Also, how could I forget about my beloved Kieran? <333 He is A+ material right tharrrr.

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What part of 8 move and canto do you not understand? This is entirely player error, as made evident by the very simple ways to do this simple task that have been brought up here.

You're not a victim here, there have been no attacks on you or skill at Fire Emblem, just reasonable arguments. Also playing the victim card is especially insulting from someone who used false information to back up an argument and got defensive and then ignored when it was called out.

Apologies to OP if this debate has derailed things from what you wanted to know.

that's all right. It's not really anyone's fault it just kinda happened lol. Besides it's interesting to see different takes on a unit.

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