Crown v. Jian Ghomeshi

[Achelexus]

Acquitted lol

Generally speaking, the public will forgive an accused rapist if they want to. I'd argue this works in their favor more often than not - Kobe Bryant's rape accusation is all but an afterthought now because he has fans. It's when you get the mountains and mountains of accusers and evidence begins to crop up when doubt finally begins to really set in. Bill Cosby is actually a good example of this: rumors had been flitting about in the shadows for a LONG time before someone brought it up again (strangely enough a comedian) and accusers began finally sharing the full extent of their stories with the public and with each other. This case sounds like it has far more in common with the latter than the former.

That's the thing, Ghomeshi made his fame out of people who legitimately would be convinced that he's guilty independent of the result. And it ended up biting him on the back, it's ironic.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Achelexus

[Naughx]

The crown really has failed on that one.

It's sad.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Naughx

[eclipse]

Why are we assuming that he's innocent/guilty?

[blah the Prussian]

The crown really has failed on that one.It's sad.

The Crown's job is to attempt to use the evidence they have to prove him guilty. They clearly did not have enough evidence. One thing I cannot stand are those who keep giving people who get acquitted for crimes shit.

[Noma9]

The Crown's job is to attempt to use the evidence they have to prove him guilty. They clearly did not have enough evidence. One thing I cannot stand are those who keep giving people who get acquitted for crimes shit.

The Crown fucked up bad though. Their "attempt" at doing their job was half-assed at best, and against a sledgehammer like Henien on a rape case no less! Which are stupidly hard to prove. Anyone paying attention to this thing can see that they did a poor job through and through, and people have a right to criticize that. Don't get me wrong, there was no chance in hell Ghomeshi was going to lose this, but that doesn't change the fact that the Crown handled this very poorly.

What truly bothers me though is that people are using this shitfest as a crusade against women who make these claims. The judge even said "We need to fight the stereotype that all sexual assault complaints are truthful." except that's not the stereotype at all. Rape and assault are, well, criminally under reported as it is because of how hard it is to prove and how much it further damages the victims. Some women do file false claims and that is infuriating to me on a level I can't accurately express, but it's hardly the "stereotype". This is only going to make the incredible uphill battle for rape victims even more insurmountable.

And I don't blame these women for that either. Just as we're told to treat people innocent before proven guilty, I think it's worth considering that acquittal doesn't necessarily mean innocence. Especially not in cases like this. Especially when the prosecutions case was so shoddily handled.

[blah the Prussian]

The Crown fucked up bad though. Their "attempt" at doing their job was half-assed at best, and against a sledgehammer like Henien on a rape case no less! Which are stupidly hard to prove. Anyone paying attention to this thing can see that they did a poor job through and through, and people have a right to criticize that. Don't get me wrong, there was no chance in hell Ghomeshi was going to lose this, but that doesn't change the fact that the Crown handled this very poorly.

What truly bothers me though is that people are using this shitfest as a crusade against women who make these claims. The judge even said "We need to fight the stereotype that all sexual assault complaints are truthful." except that's not the stereotype at all. Rape and assault are, well, criminally under reported as it is because of how hard it is to prove and how much it further damages the victims. Some women do file false claims and that is infuriating to me on a level I can't accurately express, but it's hardly the "stereotype". This is only going to make the incredible uphill battle for rape victims even more insurmountable.

And I don't blame these women for that either. Just as we're told to treat people innocent before proven guilty, I think it's worth considering that acquittal doesn't necessarily mean innocence. Especially not in cases like this. Especially when the prosecutions case was so shoddily handled.

I don't know enough about the case, but it seems to me that Naugx was implying that the Crown should have won, when the impression I got was that the evidence pointed to a not guilty verdict.

[Hardin]

The full statement from Justice Horkins can be read here for anyone interested. I think this was the only reasonable verdict based off of the evidence provided in court.

[Noma9]

I don't know enough about the case, but it seems to me that Naugx was implying that the Crown should have won, when the impression I got was that the evidence pointed to a not guilty verdict.

I see. Well, they definitely shouldn't have won. I honestly believe that he's a guilty piece of trash, but the prosecution didn't meet their burden of proof by a long shot. It would have been far less of a controversy if the prosecution had acted like they'd done this before, but I don't doubt he'd have been acquitted either way.

[blah the Prussian]

I see. Well, they definitely shouldn't have won. I honestly believe that he's a guilty piece of trash, but the prosecution didn't meet their burden of proof by a long shot. It would have been far less of a controversy if the prosecution had acted like they'd done this before, but I don't doubt he'd have been acquitted either way.

Do you think that, using the available evidence, the Prosecution had a decent chance at winning?

[Magical CC]

Well, even if he gets off his life is still effectively ruined. And yeah, Tukvarz, charging women who make rape accusations when the defendant is found not guilty is a great way to prevent even more women from coming forwards.

Jesus! Since when only women can be sexual assault victim? This is what is so wrong with the society. They automatically assume that the victim is a woman. How can you access justice with that biased way of thinking? People like that is what will ruin Jian even if he's found innocent.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Magical CC

[Noma9]

Do you think that, using the available evidence, the Prosecution had a decent chance at winning?

No. Not a decent chance, at least. Perhaps a snowballs chance in hell? They could have at least put up a decent fight instead of looking like a bunch of frauds. Though honestly, even if they had better evidence, more reliable witnesses, even if they had some rock hard proof that he was an abusive sleazebag, I still don't think the prosecution would have had a "decent" chance of winning since rape cases are never that easy. Despite what people like to believe about "justice" and the law as a whole, it's damn hard to prove or disprove something like rape.

The tragedy of it is even if the defendant is found innocent, they'll never have the same life. And even if the prosecution wins, they still have to live with the extra trauma of reliving the assault for the benefit of the court and still have people doubt them either way. And the of course, the law can get it wrong.

[eclipse]

Jesus! Since when only women can be sexual assault victim? This is what is so wrong with the society. They automatically assume that the victim is a woman. How can you access justice with that biased way of thinking? People like that is what will ruin Jian even if he's found innocent.

The Red Pill called, and wants you back.

This case is about a man who was accused of victimizing women. Hence why it was worded that way.

[blah the Prussian]

No. Not a decent chance, at least. Perhaps a snowballs chance in hell? They could have at least put up a decent fight instead of looking like a bunch of frauds. Though honestly, even if they had better evidence, more reliable witnesses, even if they had some rock hard proof that he was an abusive sleazebag, I still don't think the prosecution would have had a "decent" chance of winning since rape cases are never that easy. Despite what people like to believe about "justice" and the law as a whole, it's damn hard to prove or disprove something like rape.

The tragedy of it is even if the defendant is found innocent, they'll never have the same life. And even if the prosecution wins, they still have to live with the extra trauma of reliving the assault for the benefit of the court and still have people doubt them either way. And the of course, the law can get it wrong.

If there is not enough evidence then we must accept it. This may be controversial, but it is the dogma of every lawyer, Prosecutor or Defense Attorney, that it is better to let ten guilty people go free than it is to falsely convict one person.

[Moblin Major General]

It is better to let ten guilty people go free than it is to falsely convict one person.

There is a hidden deterrent in being acquitted of a violent crime such as this. If you are alleged to have committed a similar act later on, tyranny of the mob ensues. Even in western-style democracies, there are show trials, and this one I feel is no exception. This is basically Canada's OJ Simpson trial, where it's pretty clear the defendant is guilty, but the prosecution fucked up so hard, the jury basically had to hand down a not guilty.

[blah the Prussian]

There is a hidden deterrent in being acquitted of a violent crime such as this. If you are alleged to have committed a similar act later on, tyranny of the mob ensues. Even in western-style democracies, there are show trials, and this one I feel is no exception. This is basically Canada's OJ Simpson trial, where it's pretty clear the defendant is guilty, but the prosecution fucked up so hard, the jury basically had to hand down a not guilty.

You're comparing this to the OJ Simpson trial? In that trial, the Prosecution had all the evidence, they just fucked up with it. Here, they did not have enough to work with from the get go.

[Naughx]

Actually in this case there were no jury, just to point this out.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Naughx

[Original Alear]

Jesus! Since when only women can be sexual assault victim? This is what is so wrong with the society. They automatically assume that the victim is a woman. How can you access justice with that biased way of thinking? People like that is what will ruin Jian even if he's found innocent.

Gee, it's a good thing he didn't say that.