Does anyone else have a hard time choosing Nohr (conquest)?

[BruceLee]

Just saying, if you watch the Conquest ending, it completely side tracks.

Takumi talks about how he wanted to call his nee-sama nee-sama but he just couldn't. Then he sacrifies his precious Fujin Yumi and reforms the broken Yato.

Conquest really fucked up Takumi.

That was basically a get out of guilt free-card for Kamui. All of Takumi's reactions were completely justified but the game wants Kamui to be seen as a ''white light'' even though all of the shit that happens in Conquest contradicts that. Nohr Kamui is the bane of Takumi.

I feel neutral about Takumi, in all honesty. It's kind of weird, actually. If I think about him as a unit with Leo, his sworn Bro, I quite like him. Alone, I just kind of shrug my shoulders.

If anything, I feel his role in the story would have been better suited for Hinoka, as one of the various threads on here was talking about. It would have made much more of an impact if Hinoka, the sibling who dedicated her life to rescuing her stolen sibling, would have ended up hating them for their betrayal and the realization that she had wasted the majority of her life for someone who would never be by her side. That would have been some dynamic character development.

Instead, it was given to Takumi who, while justified, doesn't really make me care. He didn't know Kamui. He didn't have the love nor the presumed bond that Kamui and Hinoka had so, if anything, he is the same as the common Hoshidan soldier that has a hate/dislike for Nohr.

Takumi is faceless in my eyes. Just because his rationale is reasonable doesn't mean I have to like him. I understand him--but I don't have to like him.

Why not both?

None of the Hoshidan siblings should have forgiven Kamui, after all that happened.

[warchiefwilliams]

I choose conquest for many of the same reasons mentioned above (superior gamemplay, tactical depth, presence of certain Ice Tribe waifus) but I mainly chose it because I strongly value personal loyalty, more so than I do family bonds. Also, I'm very slow to give trust. A few days with your supposed "real siblings" compared to years with the people who you think are your family? Yeah, I'm choosing the latter.

As for Takumi, I really, really, REALLY (repeat ad nauseam) hate how the game tries to make him out to be the bad guy. Of all the siblings on the Hoshidoan side, he is the only one who acts like a human when Kamui turns away from Hoshido. Ryoma, Sakura, and Hinoka all hold onto the delusion that Kamui is their best sibling and that he really doesn't mean it when he is kicking them to the curb. His hatred is completely justified, and this hatred should be present among the other Hoshidoan siblings.

I don't know if anyone else has done this or if I am just a sadistic bastard, but whenever there has been an chance to fight the Hoshidoan Royals in my Conquest playthrough, I have always sent Kamui after them. By all rights, Hinoka, Ryoma and Sakura have no excuse not to hate Kamui at this point. Hinoka's life dream has been shattered by Kamui's actions, Ryoma just lost his mother and is losing his Kingdom to Nohr thanks to Kamui's actions, and Sakura, well, her line during the Choice essentially boils down to "I just wanted to love you! Why are you doing this?" right before Kamui attacks her. No one in the Hoshido Royal family should feel anything other than a sense of lost and hate at the mention of Kamui's name after chapter 6. None of them.

EDITS: Fixing spelling

Edited February 20, 2016 by warchiefwilliams

[BruceLee]

I choose conquest for many of the same reasons mentioned above (superior gamemplay, tactical depth, presence of certain Ice Tribe waifus) but I mainly chose it because I strongly value personal loyalty, more so than I do family bonds. Also, I'm very slow to give trust. A few days with your supposed "real siblings" compared to years with the people who you think are your family? Yeah, I'm choosing the latter.

As for Takumi, I really, really, REALLY (repeat ad nauseam) hate how the game tries to make him out to be the bad guy. Of all the siblings on the Hoshidoan side, he is the only one who acts like a human when Kamui turns away from Hoshido. Ryoma, Sakura, and Hinoka all hold onto the delusion that Kamui is their best sibling and that he really doesn't mean it when he is kicking them to the curb. His hatred is completely justified, and this hatred should be present among the other Hoshidoan siblings.

I don't know if anyone else has done this or if I am just a sadistic bastard, but whenever there has been an chance to fight the Hoshidoan Royals in my Conquest playthrough, I have always sent Kamui after them. By all rights, Hinoka, Ryoma and Sakura have no excuse not to hate Kamui at this point. Hinoka's life dream has been shattered by Kamui's actions, Ryoma just lost his mother and is losing his Kingdom to Nohr thanks to Kamui's actions, and Sakura, well, her line during the Choice essentially boils down to "I just wanted to love you! Why are you doing this?" right before Kamui attacks her. No one in the Hoshido Royal family should feel anything other than a sense of lost and hate at the mention of Kamui's name after chapter 6. None of them.

EDITS: Fixing spelling

Nice post. I respect you for preferring Nohr but still acknowledging it's problems.

Edit:

I feel like Conquest could have been an interesting story if the game went all the way and embraced the fact that you choose the bad guys. And not have the Hoshidans forgive you for what you've done.

Edited February 20, 2016 by BruceLee

[warchiefwilliams]

Nice post. I respect you for preferring Nohr but still acknowledging it's problems.

Edit:

I feel like Conquest could have been an interesting story if the game went all the way and embraced the fact that you choose the bad guys. And not have the Hoshidans forgive you for what you've done.

Thanks. To refuse to acknowledge that something has problems is to become part of the problem.

As for your edit, agreed, I feel like if they made Kamui their own character rather than the player self-insert, its possible that Conquest could have been that. While I know I, and many others, don't mind playing the bad guy (it is a welcome relief after reading book upon book, watching movie upon movie and playing game upon game from the hero's perspective) I guess IS decided that the safer route was to make Kamui a self-insert. A shame, truly.

[saisymbolic]

That was basically a get out of guilt free-card for Kamui. All of Takumi's reactions were completely justified but the game wants Kamui to be seen as a ''white light'' even though all of the shit that happens in Conquest contradicts that. Nohr Kamui is the bane of Takumi.

Why not both?

None of the Hoshidan siblings should have forgiven Kamui, after all that happened.

As much as I'm enjoying Conquest, all of the royal siblings' portrayals are meh, at best. Unless you factor in the various headcanon aspects that people dig between the lines to retrieve.

The Hoshidan royal siblings' should have hated Kamui, yes. I agree with this sentiment. But, just because they should have hated Kamui, doesn't mean I have to like them.

Takumi and Sakura did not seem to have the same bond that presumably Ryoma and Hinoka--her, in particular--seemed to have with the MC. From their perspective, Kamui is no one to them. Kamui, to them, is a person their elder siblings talked about but they had no true opportunity to get to know. There is nothing between them that would differentiate their relation to Kamui as any of the other faceless Hoshidans that lost family/friends/loved ones to Nohr. Even, Ryoma is like this to me--he is the eldest and has the most memories of Kamui but there seems to be no indications of affection or love or anything from him.

On the other hand, you have Hinoka. She loved Kamui. Hinoka dedicated her life to saving Kamui. She flew to Nohr to get Kamui back. She was that desperate. That is unconditional love, a love where one is willing to sacrifice themselves for their beloved. That speaks to me. Hinoka should have been the one blinded with hatred to the point where she could not think of anything else. There is a thin line between love and hate--that should have been Hinoka's motif.

Now that I think about it, my problem stems from their writing than the characters themselves. There were so many ways they could have explored the royal siblings' relationship with Kamui and the different loves that could be inspired from it but, instead, we get something that is vapid and just sad.

To answer your question as to why not both, Takumi--and Sakura and Ryoma--just don't speak to me. Again, they are faceless. All of the Hoshidan royal siblings should have hated Kamui but they didn't because of faulty writing and I don't like them because of stupid, arbitrary actions and thoughts that were imbued with by the writers.

Now let me stop before I start ranting.

[Sunwoo]

Takumi doesn't deserve the crap he gets for being the only Hoshidan sibling to dislike you. He has his reasons, and they're quite realistic ones. If you were in the Hoshidan siblings' position, I am almost positive that 99.9% of you would react similarly to Takumi, not the other three. I haven't started playing my copy yet so I can't speak for English!Takumi, but Japanese!Takumi is my favorite FE character.

Also, I wouldn't have such a hard time choosing Nohr if

[spoiler=this is a spoiler for the game]the story wasn't such an absolute shitpile. I'd say I'm offended by how bad it is, but I'm too tired of everything to even be offended.

EDIT: Also, there's a difference between understanding a character's motives and acknowledging that their reactions can still be reasonable, and just not liking them or having them not resonate with you. I don't know why, but I felt more attached to the Hoshidan characters even after playing Revelations more than Nohrian characters … although to be absolutely fair I only give a fuck about ten characters in the game total >_>

Edited February 20, 2016 by Sunwoo

[Thane]

Also, I wouldn't have such a hard time choosing Nohr if

[spoiler=this is a spoiler for the game]the story wasn't such an absolute shitpile. I'd say I'm offended by how bad it is, but I'm too tired of everything to even be offended.

Hot diggity damn, man.

Not that I disagree, of course, you know that.

[Captain Karnage]

I think the major problem is that they really don't show Hoshido doing anything wrong to Nohr

I think the prolouge needed one more chapter with Norh maybe giving insight to what was causing all of the tension between the countries (like maybe 100 years ago Hoshido tried invading Nohr and they ended up killing all of the royal family but a few members, and that this is just a revenge war)

also you do get a little bit of insight once you do pick Conquest ( how the Avatar cannot betray his adoptive siblings, he even mentions that he has no emotonal attachment to them)

I'm only up to chapter 12 and am enjoying the story (conquest gets better as it goes along)

suck it haters

anyway it's a story in 3 parts, it should have just been all in one game or just two seprate stories

[Time the Crestfallen]

I chose Hoshido because I'm a weeb. There, I said it. All you filthy gaijin who chose Nohr better be prepared to taste my glorious Nippon steel (folded one million times)!

Edited February 20, 2016 by Phillius

[Thane]

I'm only up to chapter 12 and am enjoying the story (conquest gets better as it goes along)

suck it haters

anyway it's a story in 3 parts, it should have just been all in one game or just two seprate stories

I'm glad you're enjoying yourself, I genuinely am; in spite of what some people believe, I don't want to dislike this game.

Buuuuut if I were you I'd wait until you have completed that game until you tell haters to suck it. I don't know what you like in a video game story, but given the general consensus, I think it'd be safer to not gloat in advance.

[saisymbolic]

Takumi doesn't deserve the crap he gets for being the only Hoshidan sibling to dislike you. He has his reasons, and they're quite realistic ones. If you were in the Hoshidan siblings' position, I am almost positive that 99.9% of you would react similarly to Takumi, not the other three. I haven't started playing my copy yet so I can't speak for English!Takumi, but Japanese!Takumi is my favorite FE character.

Also, I wouldn't have such a hard time choosing Nohr if

[spoiler=this is a spoiler for the game]the story wasn't such an absolute shitpile. I'd say I'm offended by how bad it is, but I'm too tired of everything to even be offended.

EDIT: Also, there's a difference between understanding a character's motives and acknowledging that their reactions can still be reasonable, and just not liking them or having them not resonate with you. I don't know why, but I felt more attached to the Hoshidan characters even after playing Revelations more than Nohrian characters … although to be absolutely fair I only give a fuck about ten characters in the game total >_>

I understand and respect your point of view. I was just giving my reasoning for why I didn't particularly feel anything about Takumi. His reasoning is justified but I just don't feel anything for him unless he is with Leo. He is realistic but I don't really care about that. In my eyes, Takumi is a faceless character.

Honestly, I most likely wouldn't even choose Hoshido if all of this would happen in real life. Just because common sense and morality points that Hoshido is the "right" path, doesn't mean I am obliged to choose them. Humans don't work in such a predictable manner. If that makes me seem like a terrible person, so be it. Not that anyone was calling me that or anything.

Edited February 20, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

[rubenz]

Well for me its quite the opposite, I'm having the difficulty to choose Hoshidon sibling, since I feel like Nohr is more like a family to me (except Garon).

But I have both game so eventually I'll play Hoshidon later :)

[Captain Karnage]

I'm glad you're enjoying yourself, I genuinely am; in spite of what some people believe, I don't want to dislike this game.

Buuuuut if I were you I'd wait until you have completed that game until you tell haters to suck it. I don't know what you like in a video game story, but given the general consensus, I think it'd be safer to not gloat in advance.

I guess I have moderate standards when it comes to storytelling in games

I expect to have fun and to be entertained

right now, it's dead in the middle of the FE games I've played

it's not as big as a clusterf*ck that was Radiant Dawn's story

Edited February 20, 2016 by Captain Karnage

[Nyanko]

Nope. Actually, I would have a hard time picking Birthright. They showed me nothing in the paralogue that even moved me to want to pick Hoshido while the Nohr siblings were so charming it would break my heart into pieces to have Kamui leave Nohr to fight against them.

[Ginkgo]

I bought birthright not really paying much attention (I figured it would be like Pokemon) got to chapter six, stopped playing and bought conquest. Have a really hard time going with Hoshido, all the fanservice and japanese aesthetic actually had me considering this was one of the worst fire emblems for a bit (I think the story is terrible either way, but plot has never been FE's strong suit)

[Silver Lightning]

Nope. Actually, I would have a hard time picking Birthright. They showed me nothing in the paralogue that even moved me to want to pick Hoshido while the Nohr siblings were so charming it would break my heart into pieces to have Kamui leave Nohr to fight against them.

Same.

Really for me the only reason to pick Hoshido is "morality" and the fact that they're not terrible human beings, just relatively honorable (and maybe just a tad racist) people . Whereas I love my Nohr siblings and have every right to want to join them again instead of risking life and limb fighting against the family I've already been established to love more than any other for a family of complete strangers who claim to be blood related and say they care about you despite immediately demanding you to butcher the people who raised you without question. I mean, there are good reasons to be on both sides, but the way its almost unrepentantly skewed towards the pure and perfect Hoshido actually repels me from wanting to choose it as a player, especially when I already have such a compelling family of siblings in Nohr. Plus, the Nohr siblings are simply more interesting in character to me.

I'll play and enjoy both of course, but I'm playing Conquest first right now for a reason.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Silver Lightning

[Katryn]

Same.

Really for me the only reason to pick Hoshido is "morality" and the fact that they're not terrible human beings, just relatively honorable (and maybe just a tad racist) people . Whereas I love my Nohr siblings and have every right to want to join them again instead of risking life and limb fighting against the family I've already been established to love more than any other for a family of complete strangers who claim to be blood related and say they care about you despite immediately demanding you to butcher the people who raised you without question. I mean, there are good reasons to be on both sides, but the way its almost unrepentantly skewed towards the pure and perfect Hoshido actually repels me from wanting to choose it as a player, especially when I already have such a compelling family of siblings in Nohr. Plus, the Nohr siblings are simply more interesting in character to me.

I'll play and enjoy both of course, but I'm playing Conquest first right now for a reason.

Yes, I agree with a good chunk of this.

That said, I'm only on Chapter 2 and I'm having a few head-desk moments over plot and character issues (oh boy...) (Warning: spoilers contain thoughts up to chapter 6.)

-- If Garon wanted Corrin to kill people without question, he should have raised him / her more closely. The fact that Garon believes Corrin would share his morality without it being carefully ingrained is clumsy at best and bad writing at worst.

-- I'm sure that the siblings helping with this situation is meant to show us how good they actually are (and to be clear, I *like* the Nohr siblings) but again--how have they managed to avoid being polluted by Garon's ideals?

-- Dear Lord, Corrin has amnesia?! *sigh* Gaming cliche is gaming cliche... But I guess it works well as a blanket rationale.

-- If Garon's big plan is to use Corrin as (essentially) a walking bomb on the Hoshido (the sword), why did he wait so long and waste so many resources? Further, why spend -that- much time training him or her?

-- If Garon did not have positive longterm plans that would legitimately require Corrin's loyalty, why jeopardize the loyalty of the other siblings by having Corrin interact with them?

A lot of that is heavy duty nitpicking and these things exist "okay" within the context of the story, but I've been spending so much time visiting with people here and thinking critically like I would when I do revision that I keep having "Wait, what?" moments.

Also: My issues are not with "You betrayed us!" Takumi. I just think (as said earlier) that he rubs me the wrong way when we first meet. If he becomes more friendly during the Hoshido route, a la Frederick, he'll probably end up a character I enjoy. I also think the trailers do him a lot of disservice because they show him so angry and malicious in contrast to the other siblings. Which further adds: why -aren't- the rest of the Hoshido siblings breathing fire down Corrin's neck? (Especially Hinoka, all things considered.)

Anyway, back to the game now. *laughs*

Edited February 20, 2016 by Katryn

[TheBakonBitz]

I was feeling like joining Hoshido was the better choice

especially after learning both of your parents die by Garon's hand (either directly or indirectly).

But right after the choice I remembered why I picked Nohr. The characters are amazing and you feel more at home where I feel like you would feel like a stranger in Hoshido.

Side note: Arthur's definitely the best character :P

[tacticianwhite]

Nope. Actually, I would have a hard time picking Birthright. They showed me nothing in the paralogue that even moved me to want to pick Hoshido while the Nohr siblings were so charming it would break my heart into pieces to have Kamui leave Nohr to fight against them.

Same.

Really for me the only reason to pick Hoshido is "morality" and the fact that they're not terrible human beings, just relatively honorable (and maybe just a tad racist) people . Whereas I love my Nohr siblings and have every right to want to join them again instead of risking life and limb fighting against the family I've already been established to love more than any other for a family of complete strangers who claim to be blood related and say they care about you despite immediately demanding you to butcher the people who raised you without question. I mean, there are good reasons to be on both sides, but the way its almost unrepentantly skewed towards the pure and perfect Hoshido actually repels me from wanting to choose it as a player, especially when I already have such a compelling family of siblings in Nohr. Plus, the Nohr siblings are simply more interesting in character to me.

I'll play and enjoy both of course, but I'm playing Conquest first right now for a reason.

I pretty much agree with the both of you. Now, I don't hate the Hoshido siblings or anything, but it's just that I love the Nohr siblings SO MUCH.

They have raised Corrin and loved them since they were a child. To turn my blade against these people just seems so sad to me.

I'm still going to play Birthright, but that'll be after Conquest.

...and I have a feeling it's going to hurt.

[Crimson Red]

I think Fate's story is terrible so either way I'm not invested in the characters enough to feel bad about either choice. But yeah, given that Nohr is presented as more of the "bad guys", I can see why it might be difficult to choose Nohr if you're not into that.

[sacredenigma]

No i just chose Nohr

Like if you choose nohr you are saying you are sticking by the people that raised you and corrin here is wanting to make changes. He also spares lifes, from waht i heard in hoshido he is actually killing nohrians not leaving them unconscious which seems funny given that you would expect the hoshido side to be the most peaceful which it is but i think nohr corrin seems more peaceful

[MrNight48]

I had no problem choosing nohr

because I hope I get the chance to slaughter the king for his throne. then I will wipe out every single royal member of the family of both sides by locking them in a room with a fully trained avatar killing them one by one. (except azua, she is looking like a true sister to me)

Then I would erase any evidence of their existence from my new kingdom made for the people. No more will they suffer of the foolish politics of the royals and I shall make them prosper reigning as the Dragon King!

The moment when royalty fights over anything else that is not for the people they govern means they are not fit to rule. THIS IS MY CONQUEST!

[Ginkgo]

I hope I get the chance to slaughter the king for his throne. then I will wipe out every single royal member of the family of both sides by locking them in a room with a fully trained avatar killing them one by one.

This was my basic understanding of the Revelation path.

[JasonsOrigin]

I just arrived at chapter 6. I already had my choice set on Nohr first but my gosh is the guilt real.

[RidellCrimea]

Not really. I decided to choose Nohr the moment I watched the trailers and I still choose it now. I think the Nohr family (as well as Nohr characters) is more charming as a whole compared to Hoshido, and the events happened before Chapter 6 didn't really convince me to go to Hoshido either. And yes I have a spouse on each route, so I don't exactly completely choose which side to play based on who I'm going to marry.