Camilla vs Hinoka (Conquest chapter 11 spoilers)

[BruceLee]

She's the enemy, she's trying to force you to go to a place that you don't want to (Assuming Corrin chooses Conquest), and most important of all she's trying to kill you and Camilla.

So by that logic if Hinoka were to mentally abuse Camilla in Birthright it's fine because Camilla's trying to take you to a place you don't want to go?

Hinoka never wanted to kill Kamui, all she wanted was for him to return to her side. She trained nearly her entire live to get him back.

[Elieson]

How is Nohr doomed without Xander. What good comes from him?

The point is more;

If Garon dies, then the nation goes from one being run by a madman to one without a ruler. Camilla is next in line? Leo? Are they nearly qualified to run a dying nation with more enemies than pebbles on the planet?

[BruceLee]

The point is more;

If Garon dies, then the nation goes from one being run by a madman to one without a ruler. Camilla is next in line? Leo? Are they nearly qualified to run a dying nation with more enemies than pebbles on the planet?

Looking at all the stuff Xander does in Conquest i don't think it takes much to be a better ruler than him.

Edited February 25, 2016 by BruceLee

[Shadow Knight]

So by that logic if Hinoka were to mentally abuse Camilla in Birthright it's fine because Camilla's trying to take you to a place you don't want to go?

Hinoka never wanted to kill Kamui, all she wanted was for him to return to her side. She trained nearly her entire live to get him back.

Get you back by stabbing you with her Naginata? Great strategy. Hopefully they brought a body bag to carry you home in.

[BruceLee]

Get you back by stabbing you with her Naginata? Great strategy. Hopefully they brought a body bag to carry you home in.

When did she stab you with her Naginata? If you're using battle animations to support this notion then you need to stop because that makes zero sense. By that logic Kamui was the one that already tried to kill her first in chapter 6.

[Shadow Knight]

When did she stab you with her Naginata? If you're using battle animations to support this notion then you need to stop because that makes zero sense. By that logic Kamui was the one that already tried to kill her first in chapter 6.

Doesn't matter she attacks you with her pointy naginata and when Ryoma in chapter 6 (After attacking you with his holy god weapon) calls on his siblings to kill the Nohrians she joins right in. She and her siblings would rather you dead than with Nohr.

[Elieson]

Looking at all the stuff Xander does in Conquest i don't think it takes much to be a better ruler than him.

But like I said, you're assuming that with Xander dead, the next successor (who, again?) will be fully capable of bringing Nohr back to worldly value. Camilla is next in line if only by age but I'm relatively certain that she wouldn't be a good diplomat, given her personality.

Doesn't matter she attacks you with her pointy naginata and when Ryoma in chapter 6 (After attacking you with his holy god weapon) calls on his siblings to kill the Nohrians she joins right in. She and her siblings would rather you dead than with Nohr.

To be fair, at this point, no one was really listening to you on the side that you didn't ally with.

[Tolvir]

But like I said, you're assuming that with Xander dead, the next successor (who, again?) will be fully capable of bringing Nohr back to worldly value. Camilla is next in line if only by age but I'm relatively certain that she wouldn't be a good diplomat, given her personality.

To be fair, at this point, no one was really listening to you on the side that you didn't ally with.

Camila really wouldn't be a good leader, she is too much of a broken person to lead an entire country of people, as as you said, deal with other countries. Leo is still young and isn't experienced with leadership. He doesn't have any problems, just inexperience. Xander on the other hand would be better than Garon. First off, he wouldn't be stopping rebellions through use of force, as he sent people to help Corrin to settle it peacefully. There also wouldn't be the problem of rebellions as he would also be treating the people of his kingdom much better. Overall Nohr would be better off as Xander isn't near as war mongering or greedy as Garon is.

The only issue I see is any kind of relations with Hoshido. He did grow up his whole life seeing them as the enemy, no matter how you look at it. It would be difficult as a person, and as a kingdom to suddenly try to extend a hand of peace. Especially with how Hoshido looks at Nohr. It would take decades of reconciliation to occur between the two kingdoms before there can be any trust, or Revalation.

Out of the two older brothers, I can actually see Ryoma being the worst of the two leaders. Not because of their moral outlook, but more in how they handle situations. Ryoma seems to be the type that gets taken over by his emotions pretty quickly. Notice in the difference in Chapter 6 where Xander asks if you truly mean this, and holds a bit of a conversation with you making sure of the situation, While Ryoma instantly jumps in. Ryoma reacts with a more attack first, ask questions later mentality that would be dangerous to a kingdom as a leader. He really would not be good a t diplomacy. If he had a more diplomatic mind to him, he would try to figure out why Corrin joined Nohr, instead of an instant reaction of anger and sadness that leads to him fighting his own brother.

Ryoma is the more likely of the two to get his country in a war they don't belong in, not because of warmongering, but because of how he lets his emotions get the best of him.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Tolvir

[Camilla]

*sigh* Xander and Camilla get way too much crap on this forum.

Where is the Ryoma hate for telling Kamui to come back to Hoshido or else Elise can die while Kamui is pleeing with all of his/her might to let them pass so that they can get the medicine they need to save her life? He holds the life of a sick 12 (?) year old girl over her head to try to guilt her into doing what he wants, and is completely willing to let her die while everyone is fighting to get by so that they can hopefully save her in time. I honestly think that is much worse than anything Camilla or Xander did in regards to things done between the two sibling sides.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Camilla

[Tolvir]

*sigh* Xander and Camilla get way too much crap on this forum.

Where is the Ryoma hate for telling Kamui to come back to Hoshido or else Elise can die while Kamui is pleeing with all of his/her might to let them pass so that they can get the medicine they need to save her life? He holds the life of a sick 12 (?) year old girl over her head to try to guilt her into doing what he wants, and is completely willing to let her die while everyone is fighting to get by so that they can hopefully save her in time. I honestly think that is much worse than anything Camilla or Xander did in regards to things done between the two sibling sides.

It shows more character fault than anything. As I said before, Ryoma acts with a mentality of act first, ask questions later. He is more likely to respond to you with his fist than any words. But that in a way is a good thing for his character as it shows he is not perfect. Its something I notice a lot of people overlook though. If Ryoma had given Corrin a chance to sit down, and describe what is going on, then he would realize it and would probably help with treating Elise. He isn't a bad person, and definitely wouldn't want someone as young as her to die. At the time though he was more caught up with Corrin being there, and hopefully being able to, from what he thinks, bringing Corrin back to reason. The whole part with Corrin saying that Elise is dying probably went right over his head. Like I said, he reacts with his emotions first.

I do agree with the hate Xander and Camila, and Nohr's characters overall, get being overdone. But that is mostly due to there being such a huge difference between the Localization Nohr characters, and the Japanese version. They are almost completely different characters, with the hate for their japanese version being understandable. The game did just release though so give it time. I guarantee people will have a different opinion on characters come 2-3 months time. And more so whenever the game releases in Europe, though it sees Nintendo completely forgot there is an entire continent further west of the Americas.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Tolvir

[Shadow Knight]

*sigh* Xander and Camilla get way too much crap on this forum.

Where is the Ryoma hate for telling Kamui to come back to Hoshido or else Elise can die while Kamui is pleeing with all of his/her might to let them pass so that they can get the medicine they need to save her life? He holds the life of a sick 12 (?) year old girl over her head to try to guilt her into doing what he wants, and is completely willing to let her die while everyone is fighting to get by so that they can hopefully save her in time. I honestly think that is much worse than anything Camilla or Xander did in regards to things done between the two sibling sides.

Shhhhhh Nohr are the bad guys who are totally evil and must be publicly shamed.

But since we the lady herself, tell us Camilla: Were you trying to hurt Hinoka's feelings when you made a one off remark as she attempted to stab you with her Naginata?

If so that was very bad and you should apologize immediately.

[BruceLee]

Doesn't matter she attacks you with her pointy naginata and when Ryoma in chapter 6 (After attacking you with his holy god weapon) calls on his siblings to kill the Nohrians she joins right in. She and her siblings would rather you dead than with Nohr.

It baffles me how idiotic your logic is, but if you insist:

Conquest chapter 22. According to your logic Kamui is trying to kill Sakura with his pointy sword. Yet at the end of the chapter he's clearly meaning to spare her life.

Conquest chapter 23. According to your logic Kamui is trying to kill Takumi with his pointy sword. Yet at the end of the chapter he's clearly meaning to spare his life.

Conquest chapter 24. According to your logic Kamui is trying to kill Hinoka with his pointy sword. Yet at the end of the chapter he's clearly meaning to spare her life.

Conquest chapter 25. According to your logic Kamui is trying to kill Ryoma with his pointy sword. Yet at the end of the chapter he's clearly meaning to spare his life. Heck, even after he's defeated Ryoma he refuses to kill him even though it will result in his execution.

So explain how it can be that Kamui doesn't want to kill them yet stabs them with his pointy sword?

I suggest you stop before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

[Tsuky]

Camila really wouldn't be a good leader, she is too much of a broken person to lead an entire country of people, as as you said, deal with other countries. Leo is still young and isn't experienced with leadership. He doesn't have any problems, just inexperience. Xander on the other hand would be better than Garon. First off, he wouldn't be stopping rebellions through use of force, as he sent people to help Corrin to settle it peacefully. There also wouldn't be the problem of rebellions as he would also be treating the people of his kingdom much better. Overall Nohr would be better off as Xander isn't near as war mongering or greedy as Garon is.

The only issue I see is any kind of relations with Hoshido. He did grow up his whole life seeing them as the enemy, no matter how you look at it. It would be difficult as a person, and as a kingdom to suddenly try to extend a hand of peace. Especially with how Hoshido looks at Nohr. It would take decades of reconciliation to occur between the two kingdoms before there can be any trust, or Revalation.

Out of the two older brothers, I can actually see Ryoma being the worst of the two leaders. Not because of their moral outlook, but more in how they handle situations. Ryoma seems to be the type that gets taken over by his emotions pretty quickly. Notice in the difference in Chapter 6 where Xander asks if you truly mean this, and holds a bit of a conversation with you making sure of the situation, While Ryoma instantly jumps in. Ryoma reacts with a more attack first, ask questions later mentality that would be dangerous to a kingdom as a leader. He really would not be good a t diplomacy. If he had a more diplomatic mind to him, he would try to figure out why Corrin joined Nohr, instead of an instant reaction of anger and sadness that leads to him fighting his own brother.

Ryoma is the more likely of the two to get his country in a war they don't belong in, not because of warmongering, but because of how he lets his emotions get the best of him.

Overall, I think that with enough experience, Leo would make the best ruler out of the four siblings.

The comparison between the brothers is not entirely true, though, because in Revelations, Ryoma was more willing to listen to Corrin, while Xander is the one who was being stubborn about the whole "traitor" thing. But being hot-headed is one of Ryoma's flaws (which, as you have pointed out, that a lot of people conveniently overlook when they criticize him for being "too perfect"), so it's definitely a problem that he needs to work on. But he does meditate a lot, so he is taking steps to improve himself.

I have yet to play the localized version, but if they really did improve the characterizations of the Nohrian siblings, then kudos to the localization team.

*sigh* Xander and Camilla get way too much crap on this forum.

Where is the Ryoma hate for telling Kamui to come back to Hoshido or else Elise can die while Kamui is pleeing with all of his/her might to let them pass so that they can get the medicine they need to save her life? He holds the life of a sick 12 (?) year old girl over her head to try to guilt her into doing what he wants, and is completely willing to let her die while everyone is fighting to get by so that they can hopefully save her in time. I honestly think that is much worse than anything Camilla or Xander did in regards to things done between the two sibling sides.

Well, quite a few people are hating on Ryoma for this. Based on what I've seen in this forum, the two sides get pretty much the same amount of hate, depending on what thread you are in. Quite a bit of the hate for Conquest actually stems from its plot and how it messes up the characterizations of both the Hoshidan and the Nohrian siblings, along with others, not the very fact that those siblings are from Nohr.

As people have already said, we should be careful when applying morals in real life to a fictional world. Ryoma was certainly not being the greatest person by doing that, but if I were in his shoes, I probably wouldn't have too many f***'s to give, either. I don't really buy the "innocent child" argument here, since it's laid out nice and clear that Elise is an adult by the standards of this game. She is capable of attacking enemies, and voluntarily fights with a group of soldiers who are constantly involved in battles (which little girls in real life don't do). From Ryoma's perspective, she's just an enemy combatant who poses danger to his people, and he shouldn't feel obligated to help her.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Tsuky

[BruceLee]

Overall, I think that with enough experience, Leo would make the best ruler out of the four siblings.

The comparison between the brothers is not entirely true, though, because in Revelations, Ryoma was more willing to listen to Corrin, while Xander is the one who was being stubborn about the whole "traitor" thing. But being hot-headed is one of Ryoma's flaws (which, as you have pointed out, that a lot of people conveniently overlook when they criticize him for being "too perfect"), so it's definitely a problem that he needs to work on. But he does meditate a lot, so he is taking steps to improve himself.

I have yet to play the localized version, but if they really did improve the characterizations of the Nohrian siblings, then kudos to the localization team.

Well, quite a few people are hating on Ryoma for this. Based on what I've seen in this forum, the two sides get pretty much the same amount of hate, depending on what thread you are in. Quite a bit of the hate for Conquest actually stems from its plot and how it messes up the characterizations of both the Hoshidan and the Nohrian siblings, along with others, not the very fact that those siblings are from Nohr.

As people have already said, we should be careful when applying morals in real life to a fictional world. Ryoma was certainly not being the greatest person by doing that, but if I were in his shoes, I probably wouldn't have too many f***'s to give, either. I don't really buy the "innocent child" argument here, since it's laid out nice and clear that Elise is an adult by the standards of this game. She is capable of attacking enemies, and voluntarily fights with a group of soldiers who are constantly involved in battles (which little girls in real life don't do). From Ryoma's perspective, she's just an enemy combatant who poses danger to his people, and he shouldn't feel obligated to help her.

Thank you. The double standards are insane.

[Tsuky]

Thank you. The double standards are insane.

Also, it needs to be taken into consideration that he's placed under a very tough situation here: not giving Corrin the medicine and have Corrin (and the fanbase) potentially hate him, or give him the medicine and lose the trust of his troops, who will no doubt be very angry and confused about why he is sympathizing with an enemy princess to whom he has no amiable relations with (Corrin is a different case, since it can be assumed that the soldiers know about his/her background).

Edited February 25, 2016 by Tsuky

[Water Mage]

There's also reason for why Ryoma acts so angry if you chose Nohr.

Remember Mikoto? Do you honestly think that after that, Ryoma would be in control of emotions? Not only that but you're using Yato, a sacred sword from Hoshido to fight against Hoshido. A sword that Corrin was only able to obtain because of Mikoto's death.

Now, whose more right to be angry?

Xander, if you chose Hoshido,

or Ryoma if you chose Nohr?

It's seems to me that a lot of people, when talking about the choice in chapter 6, tends to forget that the events if chapter 5 just happened.

I'll say it again, is it any wonder that Ryoma acts more angry than Xander if you chose to oppose him?

I'm noticing a lot of double standards here.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Water Mage

[Tolvir]

Overall, I think that with enough experience, Leo would make the best ruler out of the four siblings.

The comparison between the brothers is not entirely true, though, because in Revelations, Ryoma was more willing to listen to Corrin, while Xander is the one who was being stubborn about the whole "traitor" thing. But being hot-headed is one of Ryoma's flaws (which, as you have pointed out, that a lot of people conveniently overlook when they criticize him for being "too perfect"), so it's definitely a problem that he needs to work on. But he does meditate a lot, so he is taking steps to improve himself.

I have yet to play the localized version, but if they really did improve the characterizations of the Nohrian siblings, then kudos to the localization team.

Well, quite a few people are hating on Ryoma for this. Based on what I've seen in this forum, the two sides get pretty much the same amount of hate, depending on what thread you are in. Quite a bit of the hate for Conquest actually stems from its plot and how it messes up the characterizations of both the Hoshidan and the Nohrian siblings, along with others, not the very fact that those siblings are from Nohr.

As people have already said, we should be careful when applying morals in real life to a fictional world. Ryoma was certainly not being the greatest person by doing that, but if I were in his shoes, I probably wouldn't have too many f***'s to give, either. I don't really buy the "innocent child" argument here, since it's laid out nice and clear that Elise is an adult by the standards of this game. She is capable of attacking enemies, and voluntarily fights with a group of soldiers who are constantly involved in battles (which little girls in real life don't do). From Ryoma's perspective, she's just an enemy combatant who poses danger to his people, and he shouldn't feel obligated to help her.

My only question with that entire situation, and it isn't a dog on Hoshido as much as it is the writing of the game. Why the hell was Hoshido there in the first place? Did I miss that or something, because Hoshido just suddenly showing up in a random Nohrian hospital made no sense at all. Even if it was a situation of wanting to confront Corrin, why bring an entire army, and risk the lives of both your troops, and innocent Nohrian lives that would be in the hospital? And if the situation of Corrin showing up was just coincidence, why the hell was Ryoma there, and why the hospital? What is there to gain from capturing a random hospital that doesn't even have troops? The entire situation really made little to no sense.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Tolvir

[Rapier]

In chapter 11, If you confront Hinoka with Camilla, she pretty much shoves it in Hinoka's face how Kamui has chosen her over Hinoka, before beating her up together with Kamui. Shouldn't Camilla of all people be able sympathize with Hinoka? That dialogue makes Camilla come off as a horrible person in my eyes.

I feel bad for Hinoka, poor girl.

And another thing. Kamui ordered for all of the Hoshidans in that chapter to be spared. At the end of the chapter as the injured Hohidans are fleeing, Camilla asks Kamui: Are you sure you don't want us to chase after them? If we hurry, we can still kill all of them. Like wtf is wrong with this chick?

If there's one thing that really irks me about Conquest, it's how people who do horrible things for no reason are protrayed as good and lovable people.

That was a normal (well, from her part) reaction coming from Camilla, because both are battleing for the recognized spot as Corrin's "true" sister, and she's more jealous than the average Fates character.

About killing all of the Hoshidans, I don't think that was such a bad thing. I mean, the narrative pretty much tells us that they're the good guys, that Nohr is the side of the bad guys and we know that killing good guys = bad. But the Nohrian perspective sees these Hoshidan soldiers as mooks who are all too happy about merging the pointy end of their weapons and their vital organs together, which doesn't stop being true. I think it is reasonable and intuitive to wish for the anihilation of all of the enemy forces, in any case... But I do recognize that killing soldiers when they're already routed and surrended is foul play.

[BruceLee]

That was a normal (well, from her part) reaction coming from Camilla, because both are battleing for the recognized spot as Corrin's "true" sister, and she's more jealous than the average Fates character.

It's not really a battle anymore, Camilla has obviously won since Kamui chose her, and is even fighting by her side against Hinoka. You're telling me Camilla is fine with kicking someone who's already down, mentally torturing Hinoka(who's already in a lot of pain over everything that happened to her in such a short span of time), over petty and jealous reasons.

Well, if that's the kind of person Camilla is, then she can go rot in a ditch for all i care. I have no patience for such a person. And shame on the writers for trying to make me see such a person in a bright light.

Edited February 25, 2016 by BruceLee

[Tsuky]

There's also reason for why Ryoma acts so angry if you chose Nohr.

Remember Mikoto? Do you honestly think that after that, Ryoma would be in control of emotions? Not only that but you're using Yato, a sacred sword from Hoshido to fight against Hoshido. A sword that Corrin was only able to obtain because of Mikoto's death.

Now, whose more right to be angry?

Xander, if you chose Hoshido,

or Ryoma if you chose Nohr?

It's seems to me that a lot of people, when talking about the choice in chapter 6, tends to forget that the events if chapter 5 just happened.

I'll say it again, is it any wonder that Ryoma acts more angry than Xander if you chose to oppose him?

I'm noticing a lot of double standards here.

This. Also, on a grander scale of things, you don't put the entirety of Nohr in danger when you side with Hoshido, but you put the entirety of Hoshido in danger when you side with Nohr. The Hoshidan siblings have a right to be more angry.

My only question with that entire situation, and it isn't a dog on Hoshido as much as it is the writing of the game. Why the hell was Hoshido there in the first place? Did I miss that or something, because Hoshido just suddenly showing up in a random Nohrian hospital made no sense at all. Even if it was a situation of wanting to confront Corrin, why bring an entire army, and risk the lives of both your troops, and innocent Nohrian lives that would be in the hospital? And if the situation of Corrin showing up was just coincidence, why the hell was Ryoma there, and why the hospital? What is there to gain from capturing a random hospital that doesn't even have troops? The entire situation really made little to no sense.

You bring up a good point. I think I'll just say upfront that this is probably just shoddy writing to have you clash with a Hoshidan sibling.

But I did look into this a bit, and here is what I inferred based on the information in the game: Macarath is a royal palace (king's villa in the original), not a hospital, so while there may be doctors and medicine there, it's not exactly like the situation in Birthright Chapter 7. I mean, Garon ordered Corrin to go "for rest and relaxation," so there are probably many things there besides herbs.

And from the looks of the place, it seemed like there weren't even doctors there, since they had to rely on Azura to identify the medicine (at least in the original), and no one came out to take care of Elise. So perhaps the doctors have been called away and left this place empty, and Ryoma also needed medicine for his troops and thought this was a good place to get it.

As for how Ryoma knew about Corrin's detour, it could be because A) Hoshidan ninjas have been spying on Corrin or B) some people in Nohr didn't like Corrin/the royal family and told Ryoma (Azura suggested this possibility, and Garon did order Corrin to go, so it is possible that someone in court who had anti-Nohrian sentiments caught word of this). Either way, I don't think Ryoma ever expressed the intention of capturing Macarath; he was just there, but somehow learned that Corrin was also going to be coming, and decided to block the way and confront him.

[Elieson]

Garon just told Iago to make Corrin suffer throigh tragedy. It is no stretch to assume that Iago "slipped" info to get Hoshidan forces mobilized and ready to head to the medical city. He communicated with Corrin via hologram or something...he couldbhave easily caught glimpse of Elise and determined her illness.

Its not surefire but the pieces are there given Iago and his methods of communication.

[Sunwoo]

Ryouma gets a lot of shit for Nohr 12, and I can't say I agree with the entirety of the shit that he gets. Elise is an enemy princess. Her nation is trying to invade his. Elise took the battlefield of her own volition. They're in a WAR. He really has no obligation to give her the medicine -- on the contrary, it's possible that this will come back to bite him in the ass later. Especially if he just gave it to her without expecting any sort of "deal" in return. "I just give medicine to sick enemy princess without expecting anything back and maybe everything will be all right lololol" this is not how ANYTHING works.

Also, sometimes I wonder if Ryouma gets so much hate for his actions in Nohr 12 because it's Elise. I mean … let's say that this happened in Hoshido, where Takumi got sick and needed medicine, and it was Marx instead of Ryouma who was saying the same things that Ryouma is saying in Nohr 12. Somehow, I get the feeling that half of you would be screaming, "WHO CARES IT'S JUST TAKUMI JUST LET HIM DIE" while crying about Elise.

[saisymbolic]

Also, sometimes I wonder if Ryouma gets so much hate for his actions in Nohr 12 because it's Elise. I mean … let's say that this happened in Hoshido, where Takumi got sick and needed medicine, and it was Marx instead of Ryouma who was saying the same things that Ryouma is saying in Nohr 12. Somehow, I get the feeling that half of you would be screaming, "WHO CARES IT'S JUST TAKUMI JUST LET HIM DIE" while crying about Elise.

I honestly think it would be a bit more fair for it to be Sakura because of the whole royal sibling parallel thing but I do understand what you are saying.

Again, its the fault of Conquest's narrative that makes things a bit difficult. Really, even then, as much as I love Conquest and the characters exclusive to it, I don't blame Ryoma for his decision, either. As a few people have said, Elise is the enemy princess and Ryoma is not obligated to help her as it is her nation that is invading his. Helping her could also come back to bite him in his samurai butt hole; she is a healer after all, one of the most valuable units one could have in a war--and RPG. Who knows if letting her live would allow her to heal and, subsequently, give enough life to a soldier to kill one of his own--or him, for that matter.

As well he has his troops to think of and, showing such an act of weakness in front of them would most likely make them question his leadership and lower morale among their ranks.

As cruel as it seems, it is war and, as I said in a previous thread, many people forget that, in wars, there are no such things as innocents--only victims are left in its wake.

(Still can't remember what movie/game/book that line came from.)

Edited February 26, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

[Shadow Knight]

It baffles me how idiotic your logic is, but if you insist:

So explain how it can be that Kamui doesn't want to kill them yet stabs them with his pointy sword?

I suggest you stop before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

Who's the real idiot here? Explain to me how stabbing someone with a pointy sword somehow means friendship and compassion?

And even so Hinoka essentially is trying to force you at spear point to come back. That's not ethical at all. If Corrin does not want to come back that is his choice. And before we say that Camilla is a horrible person let's not forget chapter 13 where

She feels horrible because Garon ordered the death of the Cheve rebels.

Please you're not even worth my time. You're trying to defend attacking someone with a spear and denying them the right to choose where they wish to live is totally ok, but Camilla making a one off remark about Corrin choosing her is somehow a horrible travesty.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Ryouma gets a lot of shit for Nohr 12, and I can't say I agree with the entirety of the shit that he gets. Elise is an enemy princess. Her nation is trying to invade his. Elise took the battlefield of her own volition. They're in a WAR. He really has no obligation to give her the medicine -- on the contrary, it's possible that this will come back to bite him in the ass later. Especially if he just gave it to her without expecting any sort of "deal" in return. "I just give medicine to sick enemy princess without expecting anything back and maybe everything will be all right lololol" this is not how ANYTHING works.

Also, sometimes I wonder if Ryouma gets so much hate for his actions in Nohr 12 because it's Elise. I mean … let's say that this happened in Hoshido, where Takumi got sick and needed medicine, and it was Marx instead of Ryouma who was saying the same things that Ryouma is saying in Nohr 12. Somehow, I get the feeling that half of you would be screaming, "WHO CARES IT'S JUST TAKUMI JUST LET HIM DIE" while crying about Elise.

Elise being the one who might die definitely plays a part, but the scenario also has something to do with it. When Takumi gets sick, you infiltrate an enemy building looking for medicine and killing people inside who get in your way. In Conquest, the Avatar's party are in friendly territory and heading to a building owned by Garon to get the medicine when Ryoma comes out of nowhere and starts making demands. In Birthright, they're stealing enemy medicine so that they can heal their own soldiers. That's fine. In Conquest, Ryoma has seized the building as well as the medicine inside and is ransoming it back to you. That's also fine, Nohr is the enemy after all, but comparing that to Xander trying to stop an enemy from infiltrating a building under his command doesn't really work.

EDIT:

Who's the real idiot here? Explain to me how stabbing someone with a pointy sword somehow means friendship and compassion?

And even so Hinoka essentially is trying to force you at spear point to come back. That's not ethical at all. If Corrin does not want to come back that is his choice. And before we say that Camilla is a horrible person let's not forget chapter 13 where

She feels horrible because Garon ordered the death of the Cheve rebels.

Please you're not even worth my time. You're trying to defend attacking someone with a spear and denying them the right to choose where they wish to live is totally ok, but Camilla making a one off remark about Corrin choosing her is somehow a horrible travesty.

Calm down. We're having a friendly discussion and you can easily explain your point of view without being hostile. Not to mention that accusing people of being idiots and saying that they're "not even worth your time" isn't a good way of expressing your argument, it's just going to get everyone angry and riled up.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Phillius