Fates Character Opinions Survey Tier List; Revelations Survey Up

[Thor Odinson]

For Silas in Conquest--when's the earliest I can reasonably drop him? I don't doubt he's a good unit, but I just don't like him as a character and I want him off my team asap.

[Azure Sen]

For Silas in Conquest--when's the earliest I can reasonably drop him? I don't doubt he's a good unit, but I just don't like him as a character and I want him off my team asap.

Peri joins in Chapter 12, and if you find you don't like her Xander joins in 16.

[joshcja]

For Silas in Conquest--when's the earliest I can reasonably drop him? I don't doubt he's a good unit, but I just don't like him as a character and I want him off my team asap.

CH17 is Paladin!Silias's swansong, its the last real abuse of VoF invincibility, and after that sophie/xander/birds carry.

Its a pretty glorious swansong though he just trivializes the chapter completely.

You can stretch him all the way to ch28 if you want on his pony advantage (unlike paladin jakob) but he stops being a main combat unit from ch18 onwards.

Edited March 1, 2016 by joshcja

[Thor Odinson]

I don't think I can deal with him for that long and I'm confident in my skills to not need whatever good things he brings.

I just need to know when do I actually get enough units to replace him.

I love Xander though so

Edited March 1, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Chaotix]

For whatever it's worth, Archer Mozu will outclass Niles in most stats before even reaching Niles' starting level of 8

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qwtT7gUqCwJNMAOMwCwrsOCigDwh8iX8HUdNrHa0TsM/edit?usp=sharing

And yes, she can actually reach level 8 on her own paralogue in Lunatic, if you want. Takes about 10 minutes longer than not leveling her at all, and Effie/Silas should be pushing the point where they get a measly 3 exp per kill by the end of chapter 8 anyway. Level 5-6 is probably a more reasonable goal, but the point is that she can legitimately and immediately rival Niles after just one chapter.

Two things that Niles has over Mozu in the early game (at least before her growths make her ridiculous) are his Speed and his Res. Niles has enough Res to tank magic units like the ones in Chapter 11, and there are not many others that can do that at this point in conquest - Felicia/Jakob and Camilla. To be fair there are not too many enemy magic users in early Conquest, but he does have a niche.

Honestly I think the smart move would be to use both of them though, there is plenty of redundancy among the rest of the unit pool but not many bows, and plenty of enemy Sky Knights. I'd rather bring both Archer!Mozu and Niles to chapter 10 than both Odin and Nyx.

EDIT: Also Niles can open doors and chests, that's a pretty big utility. And even once you get Kaze there are chapters where you will want two thieves.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Chaotix

[Elieson]

@Lumi

in Conquest anyway;

Chapter 8, as you get to recruit Mozu right before that and can replace him with her. Beyond Thunderdome Ice village, it's competition for deployment in pretty much every chapter sans Ch15 because of [plot]. He joins in Chapter 7 and you have Paralogue 1 access after that IIRC

Edited March 1, 2016 by Elieson

[joshcja]

I don't think I can deal with him for that long and I'm confident in my skills to not need whatever good things he brings.

I just need to know when do I actually get enough units to replace him.

I love Xander though so

You dont ever HAVE to use him at all, he's just hilariously broken early on due to his personal skill and shuts down so much ninja bullshit.

Edited March 1, 2016 by joshcja

[Thor Odinson]

I was more under the impression that nohr earlygame is undermanned than anything--I just wanna know what's the recruitment order up through...idk, chapter 10

[joshcja]

ch7 effie/silias/elsie/JUSTICE

ch8 niles/odin

ch9:Smurfette/Nyx

ch10 Camilia/Baracuda/Selena

Mozu's paralouge: Mozu

[Thor Odinson]

Alright nice, can drop whenever.

@Lumi

in Conquest anyway;

Chapter 8, as you get to recruit Mozu right before that and can replace him with her. Beyond Thunderdome Ice village, it's competition for deployment in pretty much every chapter sans Ch15 because of [plot]. He joins in Chapter 7 and you have Paralogue 1 access after that IIRC

Cool, I wanted to try her out anyway, since I do like her as a character.

[Jedi]

Silas is pretty weak on Nohr imo, his weapon ranks suck and his utility on early chapters is very lackluster aside from dropping people and supporting, he also has alot more competition for his job there, as opposed to Hoshido where he's the only cavalier and has much better ranks in general.

[joshcja]

Silas is pretty weak on Nohr imo, his weapon ranks suck and his utility on early chapters is very lackluster aside from dropping people and supporting, he also has alot more competition for his job there, as opposed to Hoshido where he's the only cavalier and has much better ranks in general.

Real gameplay image of VOF abused silias in early game conquest.

Edit: @ Nobody, 2 early game spirit dusts with absolutely no other target aside from the sell button. Odin hits 18-19 mag naturally at 20/1. Leo wants a pony patronus for christmas because he said no to drugs like a brave little boy. (seriously though it carries him to caps smoothly and you get more than enough later on to superbuff the shining bow)

Edited March 1, 2016 by joshcja

[Nobody]

odin will generally have higher magic than leo at the same level and overlevels his boss considerably on leo's join chapter.

Odin has a 50% MAG growth rate as a dark mage and a 55% as a sorcerer.

He joins as a level 5 Dark Mage with 8 Mag.

As a Level 2 Sorcerer, he has on average 19 Mag

Leo joins with 20MAG and has a 65% growth rate

How does he have higher MAG than Leo at the same levels?

[Selena4Lyfe]

Silas is pretty weak on Nohr imo, his weapon ranks suck and his utility on early chapters is very lackluster aside from dropping people and supporting, he also has alot more competition for his job there, as opposed to Hoshido where he's the only cavalier and has much better ranks in general.

I have to agree fully with this. As a Cavalier on the Nohr path, Silas is SOOO hard to use reliably without constantly having him in a support paring. At least that's the case until you make the guy a Lodestar. Now, as a Lodestar, his stats are great! Good speed, nice attack, adequate defense. Lodestar!Silas can actually be on point reliably, being one of the units that I heavily relied upon to help me finally conquer the infamous Mission 10.

Seriously. Lodestar!Silas. He's an absolute epic must-have. At mission 14 now, and the guy is still a blast to use.

You can't expect the Avatar to never be below half health can you Levant?. The opportunity will come when it comes.

...Am I doing something wrong? Maybe it's something w/ my boon/bane selections, but from the eighth mission onward, I've not been able to use the Avatar without being almost agonizingly conservative; otherwise, she'll die within a few hits of any one unit, especially come Post-Nohr!Mission-12.

...Maybe I'm using Selena too much? I mean, I just got her promoted to the Hero class and...simply put, I am having fun. lol

Edited March 1, 2016 by Selena4Lyfe

[FEF]

Two things that Niles has over Mozu in the early game (at least before her growths make her ridiculous) are his Speed and his Res. Niles has enough Res to tank magic units like the ones in Chapter 11, and there are not many others that can do that at this point in conquest - Felicia/Jakob and Camilla. To be fair there are not too many enemy magic users in early Conquest, but he does have a niche.

Honestly I think the smart move would be to use both of them though, there is plenty of redundancy among the rest of the unit pool but not many bows, and plenty of enemy Sky Knights. I'd rather bring both Archer!Mozu and Niles to chapter 10 than both Odin and Nyx.

EDIT: Also Niles can open doors and chests, that's a pretty big utility. And even once you get Kaze there are chapters where you will want two thieves.

Right, but Mozu's got enough speed to double most things, anyway - and the few that she can't, like say paired-up samurai from chapters 9 and 11, Niles can't either. Niles only reaches a few double attack benchmarks that Mozu doesn't early on, but she deals more damage and thus often doesn't need to rely on doubling (and thus also risking retaliation damage from enemies like Niles will).

Also, Niles' res, while impressive, is mitigated by WTD. He frankly needs the res, because he's really liable to miss his shots against the mages. Mozu will be more accurate from the start. Anecdotal evidence, but in Chapter 13, against bowbreaker scarlet, Mozu still had something like 80-90% hit, and this is BEFORE she gets her sniper skill for accuracy + 40.

And anyway, after 8, res becomes all but entirely irrelevant until promoted magic users start showing up in 16/18. Really, neither Mozu nor Niles wants to take a hit, but Mozu's higher defense will prove more useful, if it comes to it.

This isn't to say "Niles is bad, don't use him." He's got tons of utility, is vital to the Conquest Lunatic Endgame strat, and when you stick a shining bow on him, he becomes your best magical attacker for much of the game. Using both of them is a very good idea. I'm just saying that Mozu's not some liability you've got to carry around for half the game to get any use out of. She can reliably be brought up to par and, as she puts it "pull her own weight" very quickly, and her growths ensure that she's only going to get more and more insane as the game progresses.

[XeKr]

While I think Gunter is a little underrated currently, I don't think he's anywhere close to Effie(well unless you count him being pretty necessary for Chapter 3, but usually only post route split stuff is counted?). He doesn't have enough Str to OHKO things and he's never doubling so that's pretty underwhelming. Good def, but low Spd gets him doubled a lot and his Res is bad. Combined with low growths I don't think he has much use as a frontline unit pretty much ever.

His personal skill is cool, but Felicia and Jakob can fill a similar role and sometimes the durability is better than more offense. Flying with Shelter is also cool I suppose, but that does take a Heart Seal. I'd probably put him in C tier or so.

Well I did say depending on how one values Pair Ups. ;P. I also don’t think Effie is that good as a combat unit, given how strong Paladin!Jakob (for female) and +Str Cav Corrin (for both) are early.

It’s kinda complicated but the short story is the others don’t fly, so imo it’s a big difference. Also, since Gunter’s classes give Def and he gives more as his character bonus, he doesn’t really lose too much in durability either. It’s kinda a tradeoff of Spd/Res vs. att/flight/hit (and other small differences between Felicia/Jakob/Beruka/etc)

+Str Ninja probably doesn’t care about Spd/Res so it’s an easy choice to go for flight. Cav builds are a bit more complicated and gender might factor into it but flight is obviously still strong.

Marriage Sealing the other Servants into Wyvern is a possibility, but I’m not sure it’s wise to give up early Ninja (which really wants to reclass asap) or Cav. Male can friendship Silas, but you already lack an extra early mount without Jakob. It might go C after C7, B after C9, A after C11 if the 3 cap from FE13 still applies, and that’s a lot of chapters as a foot unit with no Shelter. Actually reclassing to Wyvern is an interesting decision, though there’s a few issues (Spd early if not +Spd, Mag later if not +Mag and no Elbow Room/Malefic Aura, no swords/Yato. And being a flier against certain later bosses…)

[spoiler=shelter hype]

A somewhat relevant tangent, I think Shelter also makes a difference, especially in the Ninja build. Corrin won’t have it and Felicia can’t marry Corrin for it. She can marry Silas for it though it takes a number of chapters keeping them together and also gaining 2 levels, hard to do efficiently. Jakob loses +Str/Mag/hit badly, in exchange for +Res/avo, and still doesn’t fly.

I’m sure this sounds like hyping Shove (which some people probably will eventually), but multiple refreshes make a much bigger difference than 1 space.

Obviously there’s the old rescue-take-drop (no canto) for a few extra squares, but here’s an ideal example scenario.

Move Camilla(+her Pair Up) forward. Dance them with Azura. They move ahead.

Shelter Azura with Jakob. Have filler1 transfer Azura, switch and Dance for Jakob. (Pair Up someone with Jakob and) Move him ahead. Have filler2 transfer filler 1 away from Azura.

Shelter Azura with Xander. Have filler3 transfer Azura, switch and Dance for Xander. (Pair Up someone with Xander and) Move him ahead. Have filler4 transfer filler 3 away from Azura.

Shelter Azura with Gunter. Have filler5 transfer Azura, switch and Dance for Gunter. (Pair Up Corrin with Gunter and) Move him ahead. Have filler6 transfer filler 5 away from Azura.

Shelter Azura with Silas. Have filler7 transfer Azura, switch and Dance for Silas. Move ahead with Silas. Next turn, filler7 can give Azura to Silas to keep up with the others already ahead.

(I think that’s arranged right) Okay that’s ridiculously ideal and probably more slots/spaces than we have (Peri exists too..) but hopefully the point is made. >_>

In the obvious practical cases like C20 or C23 you can fly smaller teams over the gaps/wall/etc but it requires the users of Shelter to fly (or be less efficient).

@joshcja: You should make a detailed log with turncounts/positionings. It’s very unintuitive that Odin is that good. How is he getting 4 levels in C8? And how reliable are these strats? Especially when you say stuff like “Odin will have the same/more magic as Leo” when 20/20 Sorc Odin averages 29 which Sorc Leo reaches at --/9-10, 20/9 Sorc Odin is around base --/2 Sorc Leo. And he’ll outlevel him somehow even given the new exp curve?

And +Mag Cav might want Spirit Dusts given the questionable growth at times and 1 base in Pally. +Spd Cav will want them as well, even in the magic build of going Dark Knight after Elbow Room/Defender for Malefic Aura and the 6 base.

It seems you have an entirely different approach though.

Re: Mozu. I don't think she's very good, but I will admit she carried reliable clears (dat accuracy) the first time I beat Conquest Lunatic.

Edited March 1, 2016 by XeKr

[joshcja]

Well I did say depending on how one values Pair Ups. ;P. I also don’t think Effie is that good as a combat unit, given how strong Paladin!Jakob (for female) and +Str Cav Corrin (for both) are early.

It’s kinda complicated but the short story is the others don’t fly, so imo it’s a big difference. Also, since Gunter’s classes give Def and he gives more as his character bonus, he doesn’t really lose too much in durability either. It’s kinda a tradeoff of Spd/Res vs. att/flight/hit (and other small differences between Felicia/Jakob/Beruka/etc)

+Str Ninja probably doesn’t care about Spd/Res so it’s an easy choice to go for flight. Cav builds are a bit more complicated and gender might factor into it but flight is obviously still strong.

Marriage Sealing the other Servants into Wyvern is a possibility, but I’m not sure it’s wise to give up early Ninja (which really wants to reclass asap) or Cav. Male can friendship Silas, but you already lack an extra early mount without Jakob. It might go C after C7, B after C9, A after C11 if the 3 cap from FE13 still applies, and that’s a lot of chapters as a foot unit with no Shelter. Actually reclassing to Wyvern is an interesting decision, though there’s a few issues (Spd early if not +Spd, Mag later if not +Mag and no Elbow Room/Malefic Aura, no swords/Yato. And being a flier against certain later bosses…)

[spoiler=shelter hype]

A somewhat relevant tangent, I think Shelter also makes a difference, especially in the Ninja build. Corrin won’t have it and Felicia can’t marry Corrin for it. She can marry Silas for it though it takes a number of chapters keeping them together and also gaining 2 levels, hard to do efficiently. Jakob loses +Str/Mag/hit badly, in exchange for +Res/avo, and still doesn’t fly.

I’m sure this sounds like hyping Shove (which some people probably will eventually), but multiple refreshes make a much bigger difference than 1 space.

Obviously there’s the old rescue-take-drop (no canto) for a few extra squares, but here’s an ideal example scenario.

Move Camilla(+her Pair Up) forward. Dance them with Azura. They move ahead.

Shelter Azura with Jakob. Have filler1 transfer Azura, switch and Dance for Jakob. (Pair Up someone with Jakob and) Move him ahead. Have filler2 transfer filler 1 away from Azura.

Shelter Azura with Xander. Have filler3 transfer Azura, switch and Dance for Xander. (Pair Up someone with Xander and) Move him ahead. Have filler4 transfer filler 3 away from Azura.

Shelter Azura with Gunter. Have filler5 transfer Azura, switch and Dance for Gunter. (Pair Up Corrin with Gunter and) Move him ahead. Have filler6 transfer filler 5 away from Azura.

Shelter Azura with Silas. Have filler7 transfer Azura, switch and Dance for Silas. Move ahead with Silas. Next turn, filler7 can give Azura to Silas to keep up with the others already ahead.

(I think that’s arranged right) Okay that’s ridiculously ideal and probably more slots/spaces than we have (Peri exists too..) but hopefully the point is made. >_>

In the obvious practical cases like C20 or C23 you can fly smaller teams over the gaps/wall/etc but it requires the users of Shelter to fly (or be less efficient).

@joshcja: You should make a detailed log with turncounts/positionings. It’s very unintuitive that Odin is that good. How is he getting 4 levels in C8? And how reliable are these strats? Especially when you say stuff like “Odin will have the same/more magic as Leo” when 20/20 Sorc Odin averages 29 which Sorc Leo reaches at --/9-10, 20/9 Sorc Odin is around base --/2 Sorc Leo. And he’ll outlevel him somehow even given the new exp curve?

And +Mag Cav might want Spirit Dusts given the questionable growth at times and 1 base in Pally. +Spd Cav will want them as well, even in the magic build of going Dark Knight after Elbow Room/Defender for Malefic Aura and the 6 base.

It seems you have an entirely different approach though.

Re: Mozu. I don't think she's very good, but I will admit she carried reliable clears (dat accuracy) the first time I beat Conquest Lunatic.

Ok +mag cav is not a real build, calling that right now >.>. Nobody is that hard up for a 3 village ch8 ever.

4 levels between his free join chapter and the free feeding paralouge that every other long term unit gains....0 exp on isnt even hard feednig. Odin joins under the level curve while every single other char is well over it.

All rigging is 100% reliable in fates if you care to do it (Most of it is in the lategame for odin because vantage abuse)

And yeah my build is Silias to ch17 ft mooks, 18-20 maintank ophelia with forged nos + rally magic +elbow room or strong riposte ft mooks, 21 reclass ophelia to draco for lunge, trample, lancebreaker and movement in ch21/22. ch23 ophelia goes back to sorc to go kill roughly 75% of the map to cap magic for an easy rigged orko on the final bosses, oboro gets jacked with a entrap and the shootout at odins vantage moljinor cafe of 1 hp vengance goes down (aka heavy rigging but he's really the only unit i know of who can ORKO that room open for a 3 turn boots/seize aside from ophelia.... and she's busy) also niles kidnaps the NE master of arms. Ophelia chews on the boots for 8 move as a sorc and then every chapter onwards is just positioning a move+1/breaker (bow or lance)/trample/maelific aura/lunge, 2nd breaker/vengance (or other utility as needed) ophelia where she needs to be as a sorc/magik knight while other mooks deal with secondarys/move her around/kill silence staves (other mooks = level 20/15-20 fully decked out units.)

Ch23 looks pretty amazing done this way but even with odins absurd skill stat, rigging 3 duelist blow spearmaster hits (50% each) + his roughly 90% combined Vengance/crit procrate hurts sometimes (ophelia is mass RNG manipulation on 23 since she can do...whatever she wants really movement wise, she's just over there to cap magic.)

Odin is probably not saving any turns on hard though, simply because his lategame/daughters lategame is complete overkill there.

Edited March 1, 2016 by joshcja

[XeKr]

Gwimpage is an advocate for +Mag Cavalier and afaik has the LTC(/speedrun?) records. C8 (I think 5 turns, 3 villages?) is trivial with Paladin Jakob and I don't see how Odin gets 4 levels during it. Jakob both contributes significantly to completing Mozu's Paralogue efficiently (8 move, after all) and wants the exp to snowball exp/weapon rank.

Nosferatu obviously doesn't have 8 move and 1-2 range one rounding everything midgame, as Levin Sword Pally does.

I'm not sure what you mean by rigging is reliable?

Edited March 1, 2016 by XeKr

[Nintales]

A few questions since I can't play the game yet :

- Why is Mozu ranked so low? Is it because farming her is not efficient compared to giving exp to the royals and others?

- Why is Rinka ranked so low? She can be pretty good early on due to her Pair Up bonuses afaik. Is she falling in the late game?

- Same question for Nyx and Arthur.

- Why are Belka and Selena/Lazlo so high?

- Why is Silas lower on the Birthright tier list when you apparently need frontliners/tanks there?

[joshcja]

Gwimpage is an advocate for +Mag Cavalier and afaik has the LTC(/speedrun?) records. C8 (I think 5 turns, 3 villages?) is trivial with Paladin Jakob and I don't see how Odin gets 4 levels during it. Jakob both contributes significantly to completing Mozu's Paralogue efficiently (8 move, after all) and wants the exp to snowball exp/weapon rank.

Nosferatu obviously doesn't have 8 move and 1-2 range one rounding everything midgame, as Levin Sword Pally does.

I'm not sure what you mean by rigging is reliable?

Nos sets up odin to VVcrit to acomplish that setup and ophelia builds into an 8 move 1-2 range tank that orko's everything on lunatic runs which is why its....actually good? Its just not, normal/hard mode. Im pretty sure gwimpage runs on normal and goes for real time clears like every other fire emblem game in the archives. (odin picks up/makes babys around the time you actually gain levin access regardless so its not like turns are lost by comparison)

Paladins not named xander sophie or silias just die on lunatic if you try to EP with them heavily sophie lives on her enormous bases silias/xander are hard carried by their personal passives.

Edited March 1, 2016 by joshcja

[Elieson]

What perplexes me is how Odin is gaining all of these levels via Nostanking, if he isn't killing anything for quite a while except maybe on PP with Nos. Is Nos killing on EP that often, quickly?

A few questions since I can't play the game yet :

- Why is Mozu ranked so low? Is it because farming her is not efficient compared to giving exp to the royals and others?

- Why is Rinka ranked so low? She can be pretty good early on due to her Pair Up bonuses afaik. Is she falling in the late game?

- Same question for Nyx and Arthur.

- Why are Belka and Selena/Lazlo so high?

- Why is Silas lower on the Birthright tier list when you apparently need frontliners/tanks there?

Doesn't offer much in Birthright, functions as a niche in Conquest

Low bases and high pairup mods leave her as a PairBot which obviously drops her exp gain and thus her longterm usage priority

Low durability / Shaky accuracy & susceptible to crits 5evr

Flying and servicable stats / good bases and Sky Knight reclass option or Hero promotion option available at all times. Keep her as Merc to give her early levels v all the Club-users in Hoshido or reclass her to SkyKnight asap to get her out of E-lances quickly as flying / Lazlo is just a handsome devil. He's really not that unique or stellar though

I...can't answer this

[Shadow Mir]

Nos builds into exactly what you described on lunatic runs its just not, normal/hard mode. Im pretty sure gwimpage runs on normal and goes for real time clears like every other fire emblem game in the archives.

Paladins not named xander or silias just die on lunatic if you try to EP with them heavily and those are flat out carried by their passives.

I'm not seeing it when Odin's likely not recovering much more then he's taking, and note that Nosferatu has a 20 evade penalty. While I'm at it, I shouldn't need to say what happens if Odin whiffs. . . Also, I agree with Elie.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Radiant Dragon]

Yeah, I feel that Silas definitely shines more on Birthright than Conquest due to starting with better weapon ranks and being one of few units with an actual Defense stat.

[Ownagepuffs]

C8 (I think 5 turns, 3 villages?) is trivial with Paladin Jakob and I don't see how Odin gets 4 levels during it.

fwiw you don't even need Paladin Jakob for the trivial clear. I just 6 turned/3 village'd it w/ Ninja Cornflakes (a good 1-2 range Corncob like Spellcaster or Dark Mage might work as well) and co. since I got curious. Only slightly unreliable part is that the boss has to miss a 56% displayed Nos hit. Regardless, the proposition of Odin getting 4 levels in this map is comical. Even if he got 30 xp Per kill, that's still like 12 enemies he has to ORKO for 4 levels or ~8 enemies and the bosskill.

edited for clarification

Edited March 1, 2016 by Ownagepuffs

[Meh]

Mozu's done well on my Hard Conquest playthrough. She outpaced Niles in about every stat except Res and HP by Chapter 12 and was promoted by 14. ORKOs pretty much everything she came across in Chapter 16.

Fed her pretty much the entire ninja room in Chapter 11 though.

Odin was permanently benched by Chapter 12 though. Couldn't double, couldn't OHKO, felt that feeding other units with weakened enemies was better than feeding him.