The Lunatic Club [Fates]

[joshcja]

Drankodin-it...

This should be a good read...

Rips out eyes on the first pairing

[Zoran]

52 minutes ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

That might be me still used to guard stance. Especially when his guide emphasizes it:

Shephen's original pairing guide was done very much with an Awakening mindset. In that game, pairing up was always correct, and it was pretty difficult to build supports outside of those pair-ups, especially for whichever unit was in back. (There also wasn’t much reason to build support with anyone but a unit's spouse, because S rank pair-up bonuses were so much better than even A rank ones.) This has several effects on his reasoning that I think are wrong.

1. He says, for instance, that it’s very hard to get Azura married off (since pairing her up with someone would be a waste of her abilities). This isn’t actually all that true because she gets +4 support points every time she sings and gets another +4 any time someone fights adjacent to her (+6-8 if they use her attack stance), and the highest level of support gain on a map is reached at just 30 points. So it’s quite possible to max out support with Azura in 3-4 turns without ever putting her in guard stance with anyone.
2. Because he was thinking about being in guard stance all the time, he overemphasizes the idea of aligning the guard stance stat boosts between support partners: +speed support for big bulky units, +str/+def for speedsters, and so on. Those are good, yes, but a lot of the value in achieving support ranks comes from new class access, a thing that didn’t happen in Awakening at all. He treats pairing two bulky but slow units who give +DEF bonuses as redundant, when in fact these sorts of units tend to do extremely well in attack stance together.
3. He assumes that your choice of partner is more or less fixed for the whole game. Thus pairing Silas with Camilla means not pairing him with Kaze. This is not how you should play. Many times you’ll want to have a specific kind of support partner earlier in the game, perhaps because a unit needs extra defense early on or really wants a friendship class as soon as possible, but then that same unit will be looking for something very different later on—a sweet level 15 skill or a great finishing class, perhaps. Also, using guard stance and attack stance in tandem allows you to build support ranks with multiple partners at the same time.

I respect what he was trying to do with this series, but I think it shaped the community's understanding of how to play Fates for the worse.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Zoran

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

1 hour ago, Zoran said:

Shephen's original pairing guide was done very much with an Awakening mindset. In that game, pairing up was always correct, and it was pretty difficult to build supports outside of those pair-ups, especially for whichever unit was in back. (There also wasn’t much reason to build support with anyone but a unit's spouse, because S rank pair-up bonuses were so much better than even A rank ones.) This has several effects on his reasoning that I think are wrong.

1. He says, for instance, that it’s very hard to get Azura married off (since pairing her up with someone would be a waste of her abilities). This isn’t actually all that true because she gets +4 support points every time she sings and gets another +4 any time someone fights adjacent to her (+6-8 if they use her attack stance), and the highest level of support gain on a map is reached at just 30 points. So it’s quite possible to max out support with Azura in 3-4 turns without ever putting her in guard stance with anyone.

Edit: nvm anything, I did not truly read into this.

Also, I like to dance grind Azura until she’s gets to Lv.10 for that extra stat boosting skill. You can technically do it until Lv.40, turn counts be darned, but I do not want to waste THAT much time.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Azure the Scale Tipper
I did not read enough of something.

[joshcja]

29 minutes ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

Are those 3-4 turns spread out over a few chapters? Because you still have 4 levels of support.

Also, I like to dance grind Azura until she’s gets to Lv.10 for that extra stat boosting skill. You can technically do it until Lv.40, turn counts be darned, but I do not want to waste THAT much time.

There's really no reason to do this. She'll have Insp. Song by the time you need it to hit +17 thresholds. Until then meals and tonics work.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

1 minute ago, joshcja said:

There's really no reason to do this. She'll have Insp. Song by the time you need it to hit +17 thresholds. Until then meals and tonics work.

Early Insp. song gives even more stuff. Nothing like more speed, am I right?

Anyways, what is the metagame of Conquest? What truly makes a good class?

[joshcja]

29 minutes ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

Early Insp. song gives even more stuff. Nothing like more speed, am I right?

Anyways, what is the metagame of Conquest? What truly makes a good class?

Not really?

4 early males + kids + freebies and captures. That's it. If Silias is used play the whole game with corndog under half. The meta is stack (the practice of stacking ALL THE BOOSTS, generally damage skills but other forms exist).

Flight, bow, axe, tome. Exemptions exist to this rule of thumb (Silias is a walking exemption.

Edited January 17, 2019 by joshcja

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

11 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Not really?

4 early males + kids + freebies and captures. That's it. If Silias is used play the whole game with corndog under half. The meta is stack (the practice of stacking ALL THE BOOSTS, generally damage skills but other forms exist).

Flight, bow, axe, tome. Exemptions exist to this rule of thumb (Silias is a walking exemption.

What do you mean by freebie?

[joshcja]

2 hours ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

What do you mean by freebie?

Captures, Xander, Freezana, Flora, etc.

Edit:

I'm not trying to be intentionally obtuse. LCQ just has so many possible variables and build adaptations that "4 early pairs (also stack)" is really the only unit selection/planning that matters on a first playthrough.

Edited January 17, 2019 by joshcja

[Steeles4500]

Ok, so the common opinion is that pure guard stance is the only way to play conquest.

I make heavy use of attack stance in the early game. but as we get into ch11-13 and especially 14 and beyond i have never really tried to use attacl stance.

 

My growth luck os also horrible, so relying on a corrin to hit benchmark's in guard stance is useless. What are some setups, and ways to make this viable?

 

I hear people talk about Berserkers alot but i couldnt imagine using a footlock in this game.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

17 minutes ago, Steeles4500 said:

My growth luck os also horrible, so relying on a corrin to hit benchmark's in guard stance is useless. What are some setups, and ways to make this viable?

On Lunatic, growths from level ups are set. You must play hard mode a lot.

[Steeles4500]

In lunatic mode, all the level ups are rolled at unit join. That is the sense in which they are "Fixed".

It's not like PoR fixed mode at all.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

16 minutes ago, Steeles4500 said:

In lunatic mode, all the level ups are rolled at unit join. That is the sense in which they are "Fixed".

It's not like PoR fixed mode at all.

Ok, I get ya.

[joshcja]

2 hours ago, Steeles4500 said:

Ok, so the common opinion is that pure guard stance is the only way to play conquest.

I make heavy use of attack stance in the early game. but as we get into ch11-13 and especially 14 and beyond i have never really tried to use attacl stance.

 

My growth luck os also horrible, so relying on a corrin to hit benchmark's in guard stance is useless. What are some setups, and ways to make this viable?

 

I hear people talk about Berserkers alot but i couldnt imagine using a footlock in this game.

Stack is how we LCQ consistantly.

Using both stances fluidly is big in LCQ.

Use Odin.

Edited January 24, 2019 by joshcja

[Steeles4500]

yeah i know about the stack, Silas is a chad.

 

But still alot of my units end up weak, i have beaten luna a few times, the easiest run was when i had a swordmaster corrin stack xander to extreme heights.

I tried nos odin and he memed on the game until about ch17 where he fell off, which was probably just bad luck.

Yeah but main question was berserkers, they only have 6 mov so I really don't get how it is really better then great knight.

[Zoran]

The best berserkers usually have wyvern partners and have wyvern access themselves, which makes them useful in chapters like 19, 20, and 21 where being footlocked is actively bad. Around that point, you can roll through late paralogues to grab level 15 damage skills. Stacked berserkers push one-shot thresholds. Arthur’s personal skill can help him run a pretty reliable crit build even earlier, as soon as he gets into berserker and gets his hands on a killer axe.

[starburst]

39 minutes ago, Steeles4500 said:

Yeah but main question was berserkers, they only have 6 mov so I really don't get how it is really better then great knight.

In my opinion, while a Great Knight may let you move, a Berserker lets you ‘advance.’ The killing thresholds are more easily reachable by Berserkers, with they high Strength and Speed, above average Skill and the 20 % Critical Hit bonus. They kill mostly by themselves, and always in Attack Stance; they kill as they move.

What is for you a chapter with a high quantity of enemies? Let us say some sections of Chapters 17, 21, 23 and 24. An fast way to ‘advance’ in them is to separate all units, use Attack Stance and let the Berserkers lead the charge. Ch 21 in particular is faster with Berserkers (or Snipers) than with Paladin of Great Knights, simply because the former will kill any and all Faceless they encounter, no matter what. (I do not usually use flyers and only field ten units per map.)

Berserkers are busted as fuck. Try them, and use as many as you want (Effie, Silas, Velouria, Sophie, Odin…)

[Steeles4500]

5 minutes ago, Zoran said:

The best berserkers usually have wyvern partners and have wyvern access themselves, which makes them useful in chapters like 19, 20, and 21 where being footlocked is actively bad. Around that point, you can roll through late paralogues to grab level 15 damage skills. Stacked berserkers push one-shot thresholds. Arthur’s personal skill can help him run a pretty reliable crit build even earlier, as soon as he gets into berserker and gets his hands on a killer axe.

Man i have always wanted to use Arthur, but his bases are not stellar. Hes decent early as an attack stance unit but sorta become destined to pair up bot with his low speed.

Berserker promo bounses are insane tbf, but it would seem that if one shotting was the goal marrying arthur Effie to get 2 powerful berserkers isny a bad idea.

[Steeles4500]

1 minute ago, starburst said:

In my opinion, while a Great Knight may let you move, a Berserker lets you ‘advance.’ The killing thresholds are more easily reachable by Berserkers, with they high Strength and Speed, above average Skill and the 20 % Critical Hit bonus. They kill mostly by themselves, and always in Attack Stance; they kill as they move.

What is for you a chapter with a high quantity of enemies? Let us say some sections of Chapters 17, 21, 23 and 24. An fast way to ‘advance’ in them is to separate all units, use Attack Stance and let the Berserkers lead the charge. Ch 21 in particular is faster with Berserkers (or Snipers) than with Paladin of Great Knights, simply because the former will kill any and all Faceless they encounter, no matter what. (I do not usually use flyers and only field ten units per map.)

Berserkers are busted as fuck. Try them, and use as many as you want (Effie, Silas, Velouria, Sophie, Odin…)

Odin as a berserker? Hes destined for greater, nos related things i tell ya.

Also not sure how sophie gets berserker, silas would have to Marry an axe user or sophie has to be recruited early and partner into it herself. 

Velouria is pretty great but it requires you use Keaton. Shed come.sorta late bit is a great ball of stats if you wanna go for her

[Steeles4500]

Oh, and As for a chapter with alot of enemies, i could use the cramped ch23 is a decent example off the top of my head.

But even that map has large distances you need to cross, id need to get creative with ferrying.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

12 minutes ago, Steeles4500 said:

Also not sure how sophie gets berserker, silas would have to Marry an axe user or sophie has to be recruited early and partner into it herself.

Yeah, Silas has to marry Charlotte, or Sophie maxes support with a Fighter talent Kana or Velouria.

[starburst]

5 minutes ago, Steeles4500 said:

Odin as a berserker? Hes destined for greater, nos related things i tell ya.

Also not sure how sophie gets berserker, silas would have to Marry an axe user or sophie has to be recruited early and partner into it herself. 

Velouria is pretty great but it requires you use Keaton. Shed come.sorta late bit is a great ball of stats if you wanna go for her

I named Odin just for fun, but it would surprise you how the -20 % Avoid skill and his Personal complement Fighter - Berserker.

All the rest is your complaining about the availability of some units and not about the class itself. Just plan it. Corrinette gives the talent to her partner early, Effie gets it from Arthur by Ch 10, Sophie gets it from Velouria, and so on.

If you do not want to use Keaton, you could make an exception and play ‘Before Awakening’ (or visit castles) after Ch 14 and recruit her right away. (For me, the fun justifies those fifteen minutes grinding supports.)

 

14 minutes ago, Steeles4500 said:

But even that map has large distances you need to cross, id need to get creative with ferrying

No need to ferry, just walk and kill. Going fast does not equal LTC.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

3 minutes ago, starburst said:

I named Odin just for fun, but it would surprise you how the -20 % Avoid skill and his Personal complement Fighter - Berserker.

You can also do Nyx for meme’s sake.

[Steeles4500]

3 minutes ago, starburst said:

I named Odin just for fun, but it would surprise you how the -20 % Avoid skill and his Personal complement Fighter - Berserker.

All the rest is your complaining about the availability of some units and not about the class itself. Just plan it. Corrinette gives the talent to her partner early, Effie gets it from Arthur by Ch 10, Sophie gets it from Velouria, and so on.

If you do not want to use Keaton, you could make an exception and play ‘Before Awakening’ (or visit castles) after Ch 14 and recruit her right away. (For me, the fun justifies those fifteen minutes grinding supports.)

 

No need to ferry, just walk and kill. Going fast does not equal LTC.

I should try that, berserker corrinette is best to marry silas because hes a beast, which also gives sophie berserker right?

Or do they get the nohr noble class that suck?

Percy would make a good berserker as well, now that i think about it.

I feel bad for heroes, they are the worst promo option on both of their lines lol.

[starburst]

21 minutes ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

You can also do Nyx for meme’s sake.

I probably got lost in translation, but 'for fun' did not mean 'as a joke'. Odin's growths as Berserker are
85 % HP/ 60 % Str/ 30 % Mag/ 70 % Skill/ 50 % Spd/ 60 % Luc/ 40 % Def/ 20 % Res

 

26 minutes ago, Steeles4500 said:

I should try that, berserker corrinette is best to marry silas because hes a beast, which also gives sophie berserker right?

Or do they get the nohr noble class that suck?

Percy would make a good berserker as well, now that i think about it.

I feel bad for heroes, they are the worst promo option on both of their lines lol.

I mentioned Corrinette's talent instead of her being a Berserker to have more flexibility during her build (so that you could do, say, a +Mag Corrin and still have a Berserker Silas or Odin, etc.)

Unfortunately, Corrin's children always inherit Nohr Noble. The class itself is not that bad as a magical one, though. It has good skills but its mixed growths do not fit many units other than Corrin (Odin could probably make it work, and Camilla, but they cannot use it anyway.)

From his class-tree exclusively, I prefer Hero Silas over Bow Knight Silas; perhaps because I do not usually use Xander or Camilla, and thus a sturdier Silas is more desirable.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

1 minute ago, starburst said:

I probably got lost in translation, but 'for fun' did not mean 'as a joke'. Odin's growths as Berserker are
85 % HP/ 60 % Str/ 30 % Mag/ 70 % Skill/ 50 % Spd/ 60 % Luc/ 40 % Def/ 20 % Res

Oh, that’s nice.

Shadow Mir would probably not care and still use Wyverns, though.