The Lunatic Club [Fates]

[avengerfive]

I captured 2 C24 Falcos and have Niles with pass. I also have all 4 rescue charges. I'm thinking getting 2 people down there is gonna require a triple dance lol. To bad the generics take FOREVER to recruit. Their bribes costs are also wayyyy too high.

Edited March 30, 2016 by avengerfive

[Thor Odinson]

Yeah I want to try to do it without the falcos because sometimes I forget to and then I can't go back and do it and they cost too much

I wanna make something general enough that just niles and his kid can pull off without needing specific pairings--pairing Azura is a pain in the ass I don't want to deal with-- or capture so (might even try doing it with 6 mov azura for extra challenge), i'll probably head over to phoenix just so I can endlessly test positioning without the suffering

Edited March 30, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[avengerfive]

Yea that's a good idea. But instead of doing an entire run, can't you just drop the difficulty and mode of one of your current runs?

I kinda need the C24 Falcos because I'm trying to beat the game without kids.

[Thor Odinson]

Yea that's a good idea. But instead of doing an entire run, can't you just drop the difficulty and mode of one of your current runs?

I kinda need the C24 Falcos because I'm trying to beat the game without kids.

shit, you're right, I forgot dropping difficulty exists. I do only have 3 rescue shots instead of 4 though--which might screw with my plans a bit. If I can pull off enough Azura dances I might be able to pull it off, but idk.

I think if I went Samurai Corn I could do endgame with only Niles as my pass-staffer--+Str + Life or Death + Swordfaire (+ Aggressor if we allow DF and I totally allow DF, but really LoD/SF should get the damage high enough anyway) should be able to stack damage high enough to oneround Takumi--but that, again, is relying on very specific builds, especially one that you can't easily get in Conquest off other units.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Well, theres Odin

[Thor Odinson]

Well, theres Odin

That still requires another specific (Dark Mage Corn) instead of opening it to any corn build, though because any old Corn build can still reclass back to Nohr Noble if you really need to sword it up

Samurai Odin wouldn't work for the clean OHKO because Samurai Odin doesn't have Yato which is the key part about this being reliable--Odin isn't even guaranteed to be used (well okay, Niles isn't either, but if you don't use Niles you can't capture those falcos to do the same thing he does either you might as well just give up on the 2 turn bar using his genetics or reclass nyx or skillbuying--I guess there's Shura--actually there's a couple of ways to get adventurers so assume there's 2)

Edited March 30, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[-Cynthia-]

The Pass really isn't even necessary to get one unit down there if you don't want to Capture or train a Pass user(level 15 promoted is hard for a lot of units to reach). Forrest had about 80% for Entrap on the left side General you need to get by. If you're not using him, Flora probably has about the same hit. .

Can't get Samurai from Odin, he'll just give you Dark Mage even if that's your talent.

Edited March 30, 2016 by -Cynthia-

[XeKr]

Gwimpage's breakdown of his first serious try is here, and he noted various spots in his reddit thread where he could improve.

The C2 strategy XeKr mentioned is pretty much it--I think you can reset for post-EP1 enemy formations that can get you more EXP, if you have the patience.

Assuming no dodges, C3 will require either a) 8 Def on Corrin, so that the lower-right Archer won't target him, or b) +1 Str on Jakob, presumably to KO the Samurai with a Dual Attack from Gunter (I haven't explored b) at all). The idea is to kill one of the three enemies beyond the bridge and manipulate the other two into a formation that doesn't block your way. You can get a four-turn clear if you crit the boss with Gunter, or a five-turn clear with Corrin taking the kill if you choose not to crit. Given the low hit rates, it's not the most reliable strategy either way.

C4 is pretty ugly. I expect you can still get a five-turn clear by triggering the middle Dragon Vein on turn three, as mentioned in your reference (if you don't have a +Spd boon, you'll probably need more crits on Lunatic though). Previously I got a six-turn clear, triggering the middle DV on turn four instead, using a Corrin strong enough to ORKO every non-boss enemy and relying on her baiting the Sakura-bound Faceless by triggering the final DV with a Dual-Guard-loaded Corrin in range of death. This wasn't reliable since a) if an enemy missed prior to that, Corrin wasn't in range of death, and the Faceless would target Sakura instead; b) if Corrin scored a crit at any point, the DG-meter building changed from what I expected, leaving her without a fully-stocked Dual Guard for that particular Faceless.

Without ninja dodges, C5 in five turns requires +1 Res on Kaze, and either +1 Spd (to double the Mercenary) or +1 Str (to enable Azura to finish off a boxed-in Dark Mage during EP3). Assuming the +1 Res is fulfilled, if you have both +1 Spd and +1 Str, you must not attack the Mercenary straight away because the DG meter will not fill up in time to block the Dark Mage's attack; if you have +1 Spd and +0 Str, you must attack the Mercenary; if you have +0 Spd and +1 Str, walk one step further than the periphery of the initial range of the enemies. The idea is to finish the bottom cluster of enemies during PP3 and EP3; and to next have Kaze take out the upper two Dark Mages, and, if the boss is not within KO range by Corrin at the start of PP3 PP4, the bottom-right Dark Mage. Ryoma must survive long enough to get saved by Corrin so that he can take out the bottom-left Dark Mage.

C6 in two turns is easy and not unusually unreliable once you notice the Dragon Vein near Xander.

+1 Str on Jakob is more to kill the boss turn 5 with Gunter attack and then Jakob attack+Gunter tagteam. Corrin seizes that turn. Sometimes Corrin doesn’t have the Str to 2hko the boss and you can try the Jakob strat or Gunter might have to get the kill (as I think he can’t survive EP4 vs the boss+archers). Though I think sometimes Corrin+Pocket Gunter+Jakob aura can survive PP4/EP4 against the boss, which gives you 3 chances for ideally Corrin+Corrin 2hko, but Corrin+Gunter 2hko is a backup, or Corrinx3 for the 3hko.

It might also work if Corrin doesn’t have the Def to split the bridge enemies since it’s Corrin + Jakob (in pocket maybe, not sure if astance works) survives on the DV turn 3, clean up/split turn 4? Do the bosskill and seize PP5?

For the bridge it might also help in another approach, though depending on how C2 exp worked out, he might not have a level yet (may need to feed him the north myrms in C3).

For C4, I seem to remember the benchmarks to one-round the higher level faceless are pretty high?

Nice, thorough C5 strat. I guess using Ryoma means Kaze doesn’t need a bunch of Str procs and dodges.

Re: final boss and talents: I think Samurai Talent can oneround without procs which makes it pretty alluring, especially for resetless or such. But enough Str to oneround with at least 1 proc isn’t too bad efficiency-wise (like ~50%ish?), given how short the chapter and C27 is. I forget the exact numbers because Dragonskin does weird things but recalcing quickly…Wyvern!Gunter, Rally Str, Elbow Room, Defender is like +15 (16 S) Str, Shadow Yato with A swords and triangle is 20 att. 31+2 Str in Nohr Noble with tonic, -Luck, is 68 att. –26 Def and dragonskin doing 3/ 4th and floor is 31 damage/44 with proc which is just 75.

Also, if Paladin!Jakob is used, Corrin doesn’t reclass until C10, at which point Camilla has arrived. So maybe Corrin not having Cav early doesn’t even matter too much in full teams? (can still Friendship/Partner into Paladin/Dark Knight later)

So tbh Samurai seems pretty solid indeed. Also apparently there’s cheesy stuff to 2-3 turn C17 and C19 is easy nowadays with Beastkiller wyverns (usually Camilla), so I personally don’t think Ninja is that appealing over Levin Sword builds anymore.

[Thor Odinson]

Well my goal is to just figure out a way to get 2 people down there which makes everything a lot more reliable/generalized, because not everyone will use optimal builds all the time (I do like Ninja, though, since I'm not really getting into the lower turncount stuff, muscles are the best, and can tank both stats at 1-2 range with appropriate boosts). Given that Cynthia pointed out that one staffer actually doesn't need pass which I actually forgot because I just used Nina and didn't remember the layout off the top of my head, I guess the only other thing is you still need 1 more pass staffer, though training one of Niles or Shura isn't that high of a demand? (maybe)

I hit 33 with Agg/+Str -Mag/+tonic/Gunter so if I had Swordfaire that would've been 38 which is a clean orko. Alas. If I thought ahead and gotten trample from A+ Camilla that would've also worked, but I did that run pretty blind, and also 4 levels of E ranks while spending an extra 4k gold is probably suffering.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[XeKr]

I feel like a double refresh/rescue can probably get 2 units down there, but I don't remember the exact squarecount either. Can take a few turns before the skip to shorten the distance if reliability is the main concern.

Niles is a very strong character so he's certainly not a bad choice to use (and to some extent needs to be used to marry off anyway). Him and Nina can be the two pass users if needed.

Male can also just talent Samurai and buddy Kaze for Ninja (Bronze might suck but midgame isn't that bad with Camilla/Xander. Ninja by C17 may need My Room or paralogues tho). Female can marry for it but husbando choices

Edited March 30, 2016 by XeKr

[joshcja]

The game gives you like 20 tiles worth of free shelters. it's not too hard to get double bosskillers @ Takumi on turn one.

[Thor Odinson]

I'm going to assume less than maximal shelters to work with because Silas doesn't come with it at base and since I don't like him as a character he's not getting to lv 10, which means Sophie also isn't being born. With them it'd certainly be easier but the day I play FE with characters I really don't like is the day I just don't play FE

I can't assume Sieg either bc he has to actually be born and people do no-child runs. Cannot assume Arthur because he's not guaranteed to be reclassed. Can't assume Corn because Corn also needs to reclass for it and even though Corn can get it easily as either it's still an extra seal dip which people who play Nohr Noble only final destination will not access and still an extra 2000g of expenditure otherwise, so really only a thing for people who are legit doing CavCorn. I guess there's Jakob, but even he's not guaranteed to have it. Especially for people who play male.

I can assume Marx and Peri and Gunther because they come with it at base, so I will limit myself to 3 shelter users.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Redwall]

+1 Str on Jakob is more to kill the boss turn 5 with Gunter attack and then Jakob attack+Gunter tagteam. Corrin seizes that turn. Sometimes Corrin doesn’t have the Str to 2hko the boss and you can try the Jakob strat or Gunter might have to get the kill (as I think he can’t survive EP4 vs the boss+archers). Though I think sometimes Corrin+Pocket Gunter+Jakob aura can survive PP4/EP4 against the boss, which gives you 3 chances for ideally Corrin+Corrin 2hko, but Corrin+Gunter 2hko is a backup, or Corrinx3 for the 3hko.

It might also work if Corrin doesn’t have the Def to split the bridge enemies since it’s Corrin + Jakob (in pocket maybe, not sure if astance works) survives on the DV turn 3, clean up/split turn 4? Do the bosskill and seize PP5?

For the bridge it might also help in another approach, though depending on how C2 exp worked out, he might not have a level yet (may need to feed him the north myrms in C3).

For C4, I seem to remember the benchmarks to one-round the higher level faceless are pretty high?

Nice, thorough C5 strat. I guess using Ryoma means Kaze doesn’t need a bunch of Str procs and dodges.

Re: final boss and talents: I think Samurai Talent can oneround without procs which makes it pretty alluring, especially for resetless or such. But enough Str to oneround with at least 1 proc isn’t too bad efficiency-wise (like ~50%ish?), given how short the chapter and C27 is. I forget the exact numbers because Dragonskin does weird things but recalcing quickly…Wyvern!Gunter, Rally Str, Elbow Room, Defender is like +15 (16 S) Str, Shadow Yato with A swords and triangle is 20 att. 31+2 Str in Nohr Noble with tonic, -Luck, is 68 att. –26 Def and dragonskin doing 3/ 4th and floor is 31 damage/44 with proc which is just 75.

Also, if Paladin!Jakob is used, Corrin doesn’t reclass until C10, at which point Camilla has arrived. So maybe Corrin not having Cav early doesn’t even matter too much in full teams? (can still Friendship/Partner into Paladin/Dark Knight later)

So tbh Samurai seems pretty solid indeed. Also apparently there’s cheesy stuff to 2-3 turn C17 and C19 is easy nowadays with Beastkiller wyverns (usually Camilla), so I personally don’t think Ninja is that appealing over Levin Sword builds anymore.

Yeah, I probably should have been more clear about the ridiculous benchmarks for ORKOing the Sealing Faceless. I suppose the best reason to choose +Spd over +Def or +HP, even though +durability is necessary for the absolute lowest TC, is to avoid going crazy on these sorts of chapters.

Ryoma's penchant for dying before putting the C5 boss in KO range makes the five-turn clear dicey, but the nice thing is that it can transition into a six-turn clear pretty easily.

[XeKr]

I'm going to assume less than maximal shelters to work with because Silas doesn't come with it at base and since I don't like him as a character he's not getting to lv 10, which means Sophie also isn't being born. With them it'd certainly be easier but the day I play FE with characters I really don't like is the day I just don't play FE

I can't assume Sieg either bc he has to actually be born and people do no-child runs. Cannot assume Arthur because he's not guaranteed to be reclassed. Can't assume Corn because Corn also needs to reclass for it and even though Corn can get it easily as either it's still an extra seal dip which people who play Nohr Noble only final destination will not access and still an extra 2000g of expenditure otherwise, so really only a thing for people who are legit doing CavCorn. I guess there's Jakob, but even he's not guaranteed to have it. Especially for people who play male.

I can assume Marx and Peri and Gunther because they come with it at base, so I will limit myself to 3 shelter users.

At a glance, the most generic and reliable is probably save 1 entrap (Flora has the base rank), 2 rescue (E rank so whoever), and double refresh Beruka and Camilla to ferry 2 bosskillers (I think fliers can help go over some rocks).

Or maybe lunge (Camilla has at base)/entrap 2 enemies, double refresh 2 mounts paired with staffbots and each rescues a bosskiller.

It's hard to get around the entrap accuracy without pass though (it can be pretty good as mentioned earlier, but still depends on one's standard for reliability), and can only get 1 Pass at base (late Nina, I suppose Niles can just marry as a pairupbot)

edit: iirc the 1 turn clear uses a double refresh for Corrin+pocket and Pass unit(+mount), then Pass unit rescues (1 use) Corrin who onerounds. So 3 Rescue and more turns to setup should be enough.

Edited March 31, 2016 by XeKr

[Thor Odinson]

Yeah I'll probably give it a more practical shot tomorrow, since i have some work that needs to get done today. I do have 2 and 1 rescues left, though with 9 mov on Nina (i had a spare boots so i slapped it on her for 28 only) it still took me 2 blows of rescue (rescue corn, dance, rescue again) to cross the room---though it'd probably help if I actually went further and did some fighting on turn 1. I'll figure it out when I do it, though.

[joshcja]

Yeah I'll probably give it a more practical shot tomorrow, since i have some work that needs to get done today. I do have 2 and 1 rescues left, though with 9 mov on Nina (i had a spare boots so i slapped it on her for 28 only) it still took me 2 blows of rescue (rescue corn, dance, rescue again) to cross the room---though it'd probably help if I actually went further and did some fighting on turn 1. I'll figure it out when I do it, though.

Lunge is pretty good at adding the last few tiles and free's up the entrap slot.

[Thor Odinson]

Noted. I'll probably actually do the test runs on L since Phoenix probably have lower enemy density in the case of actually wanting to get more tiles in and going aggressive, so I'll need both density and stats. I really just need Casual for a battle save, anyway. I'll speedrun Phoenix if it turns out I do need all 4 shots of rescue instead of 3, but I think i can do it with 3.

[Nintales]

Is Conquest!Chapter10 doable on Lunatic on a male only?

I'm probably gonna get me Haitaka and another generic to help me at chapter 9, but since I'm not allowing myself any lady (Effie/Elise/Camilla/Selena/Belka/Nyx) I think this is gonna be 10 times harder than the hell it already is.

Even if the game's out in only 1 month and a half for us european, I think it'd be fun to theorize on that. (I think I might have to free myself Elise/Camilla and maybe Nyx though if it becomes too hard)

Edited March 31, 2016 by Nintales

[joshcja]

Is Conquest!Chapter10 doable on Lunatic on a male only?

I'm probably gonna get me Haitaka and another generic to help me at chapter 9, but since I'm not allowing myself any lady (Effie/Elise/Camilla/Selena/Belka/Nyx) I think this is gonna be 10 times harder than the hell it already is.

Even if the game's out in only 1 month and a half for us european, I think it'd be fun to theorize on that. (I think I might have to free myself Elise/Camilla and maybe Nyx though if it becomes too hard)

Silias and Odin are male so yes.

That's like 80% of the map wiped right there.

[Nintales]

Silias and Odin are male so yes.

That's like 80% of the map wiped right there.

Yeah but that means I need to give Odin enough exp between Chapter 9, the first invasion and Mozu's Paralogue.

I think this might be doable. =)

Edited March 31, 2016 by Nintales

[joshcja]

Yeah but that means I need to give Odin enough exp between Chapter 9, the first invasion and Mozu's Paralogue.

I think this might be doable. =)

Meh if you're just playing casually males only odin/arthur/silias/jakob/corin will walk into ch10 at lvl 12-13.

As you glorify in a drugged up VoF Silias out damaging base Camilia the slow realization that Ch10 is kinda a joke will dawn upon you.

Females only might be more challenging since the early girls are... slightly less broken as fuck (Sans Nyx, who is straight up garbage)

Edit: Obligatory Odin is waaaay too good with any training whatsoever

Edited March 31, 2016 by joshcja

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Giving Odin EXP in early game is actually funny since it basically consists of lettting him solo some of the maps.

Like he can pretty much solo Invasion 1 due to the map layout. Then this snowballed into Mozu para. Chapter 9, he's kinda fine too

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Who is Odin again?

Edited March 31, 2016 by JSND

[joshcja]

Who is Odin again?

Some nerd who only does 20x4 to Takumi.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Some nerd who only does 20x4 to Takumi.

1 less damage than Leo. Ruined forever. Must be worse than Revelation Od- shot

Honestly Odin and Arthur is my pick for the most underrated unit in the game.