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The Lunatic Club [Fates]

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On 10/29/2018 at 4:18 AM, ChickenWings said:

Recommended characters, couples, and possibly kids in this difficulty for Conquest?

Royals and their lovers are no brainers.

Early as possible Percy is a unit that doesn't get enough credit. If you push for it, early Effie!Percy comes in around C11 or 12 and essentially functions like a unit that has Beruka's bases and low level but with Camilla's growths. It's a pretty beautiful recipe. Shoutouts to joining with capped luck. Unlike Ophelia, you don't have to train a slightly below average unit to get him either.

I think my most prominent non royals were early Percy married to Camilla!Velouria (stays with A support Zerker!Effie until then) and Bow Knight Niles. Silas is pretty frustrating in CQ because while his middling speed was easy to fix in BR due to abundant speed pair ups, speed katana, and low speed enemy types he really falls off as soon as he misses like 2 speed procs lol. Most kids aren't worth the effort.

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I started a new playthrough on Conquest. Gave Corrinette +Str -Mag Ninja talent because I wanted to try out an overpowered ninja. I'm planning to marry her to Silas because why not. Gonna do EliseXOdin and I did (using MyCastles, probably won't do that again and just "marry" them next chapter) marry ArthurXEffie. I'm at chapter 10 and hopefully it'll go better this time around. I was thinking about recruiting Anna for Archer stuff if I don't HS Mozu.

I'm a little in a bind on what to do now in regards to Partner and Heart Sealing things. I used my first HS for Wyvern!Elise because I really wanted to try that. She's ok so far, but she does need tonics and pair ups to actually one round stuff. I'll probably not HS Jakob for a while as I want to use the seals for others this time around. He's my only healer atm anyway so he's fine as he is. He's also a decent pair up for the likes of Odin because of Speed + Mag. I'm thinking of HSing Mozu as an archer if I ever want to use her, but I've used her before already so I dunno. There's also HSing Corrin to Ninja, HSing Arthur to Cav, PSing Effie to Fighter and potentially PSing Silas to Ninja if Corrin and Silas marry. So many choices...

What would be the best way to go on for MN!Silas anyway? You'll want Sol and Good Reposte at some point. Do you go Cav, promote to Pally, then immediately HS to Hero, then HS/PS to Ninja at level 5? Or do you just HS to Merc immediately? He's a level 11 Cav atm. I'm a little lost on the optimal way of doing this lol. I'll probably have Corrinette dip into Cav for a bit too for Elbow Room and Shelter. And maybe even Archer for Quick Draw. I dunno.

Then there's the fact that if I want Odin to be good, I'll probably want him to dip into Samurai and back too. But when? =/ Or should I've done that on Ch8?

As for final pairings, I'm at least thinking of: CorrinXSilas, ArthurXEffie, OdinXElise, XanderXSelena, LeoXNyx. I'll have to think about the rest though.

At least I can say that it's much easier than last time. :)

Edited by Thomaz

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No reason to stack both MN!Corn and MN!Silias. That said I normally go for Cav>Merc>MN>Hero for 1 level>Paladin for 1 level>MN to ch24>Bow knight for 2 levels in 24>MN in 25 and 26 on Silias.

Odin can wait till after ch13 for second shop seals.

Corin probably wants 1-2 range in 10.

Just do dips in paralouges for easy times.

Edited by joshcja

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@joshcja do you have a rough turn-by-turn of how you’re stuffing 3 levels into Odin in chapter 8? I know of ways to do it, but they’re pretty slow, so I’d love to read a faster setup if you’ve got one.

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35 minutes ago, Zoran said:

@joshcja do you have a rough turn-by-turn of how you’re stuffing 3 levels into Odin in chapter 8? I know of ways to do it, but they’re pretty slow, so I’d love to read a faster setup if you’ve got one.

Smuggle in tonics along with a spare vulnary, pair up Odin with niles, and then kill the 5 mages on the ice. He doubles with a speed tonic and 2rko's, we can push this to an ORKO but that's not needed for the safe strat. Kill the 2 fighters by flora as well (move so they engage 1 at a time)

Provided you don't pull the fighters early and hit decent stat rolls this is safe and nets 30×5+5x10+2x30+2x10 (280) exp. Feed him Flora or some other mook for the last nib on turn 5 player phase off a dual strike and you have a reasonably safe +3 Odin in a sane amount of time.

Edited by joshcja

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3 hours ago, Zoran said:

@joshcja do you have a rough turn-by-turn of how you’re stuffing 3 levels into Odin in chapter 8? I know of ways to do it, but they’re pretty slow, so I’d love to read a faster setup if you’ve got one.

joshcja already gave his approach, and you should check it first since he plays Lunatic (exclusively?) more often than I do.

Since I use Odin regularly and I always level-up him up to L8 or 9, I would like to ask you two things:
1. What is your general approach to the map?
2. How many turns seem fair to you?

Depending on which houses you visit, the enemy disposition changes and one approach may be easier to feed kills to your under-levelled units like Mozu and Odin. I always visit the three houses in the south (completed by Turn 4), stand the only wave of enemies marching south, and then make a Village Tour luring enemies and finishing them with the under-levelled units.

Odin needs four kills to level-up, and Silas, Effie or Corrin with a Dragon Stone (to prevent her doubling) should severely weaken any enemy with one hit and leave it ready for Odin's Fatality. As a plus, Elise heals on every turn and reaches L10.

Doing this takes me about 20-25 turns to complete the map. If that is too much for you, remember that you can stop the 'tour' at any time, for the enemies will not chase you. And it does not really matter if Odin ends Ch 8 at L7 or L10, since Ch 9 has the same difficulty and gives him more opportunities to level-up (like facing the Archers or finishing Lancers.)

I did not give you the best pair-up bonuses, because I prioritise support building in all chapters before Ch 12. Feel free to buy Magic or Speed tonics for Odin, but they are not required.

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I am not even close to playing Lunatic, but I plan on it.

This about pairings. I do not think I need assurance with Birthright or Revelation because there is a gap in difficulty between them and Conquest. That said, I would like someone to check these pairings and see what uses I have for each (planning on doing all Paralogues on Lunatic). Spoiler for possible large size.

Spoiler

Corrin (F) [+Mag -Luck] x Jakob

Azura x Silas

Kaze x Mozu

Xander x Charlotte (I don’t think this needs to be checked)

Leo x Felicia

Benny x Beruka

Keaton x Selena

Arthur x Effie (Once again, doubt it needs checking)

Odin x Elise (No doubts about this one)

Laslow x Peri

Niles x Camilla

 

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6 hours ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

I am not even close to playing Lunatic, but I plan on it.

This about pairings. I do not think I need assurance with Birthright or Revelation because there is a gap in difficulty between them and Conquest. That said, I would like someone to check these pairings and see what uses I have for each (planning on doing all Paralogues on Lunatic). Spoiler for possible large size.

  Reveal hidden contents

Corrin (F) [+Mag -Luck] x Jakob

Azura x Silas

Kaze x Mozu

Xander x Charlotte (I don’t think this needs to be checked)

Leo x Felicia

Benny x Beruka

Keaton x Selena

Arthur x Effie (Once again, doubt it needs checking)

Odin x Elise (No doubts about this one)

Laslow x Peri

Niles x Camilla

 

I'll give you initial impressions, but also I'd like to know the rationale behind your picks. If you're going to use the child from the pair or not changes the consideration. I'm assuming no grind.

 

Some paralogues are hell if you don't do then asap. The first that come to mind are Benny and Xander's child paralogues. They become near impossible after a specific point (I don't remember around which chapter since I never want to recruit their kids). Side note: keeping units in guard stance for a long time and using lots of guard stance is a near sure way to lose. Attack stance is amazing.

 

Corrin x Jakob sounds good. You get two early paralogues and depending on how you use Jakbo, Dwyer can be a really strong cavalier. Kana's paralogues is free xp to get skills from odd classes outside of the normal chapters (how I use Kana's chapter).

 

Silas x Azura can be built soon, but Sophie is going to have very little hp. Sophie and Silas will have access to peg, which is a good option for them. Sophie can end up being a good support unit this way (a second Shigure kinda). Shigure will like this pairing. Azura is also one that can be difficult to support with depending on how you play. Having her able to dance anyone you need makes it take a long time to raise support with a specific unit to S.

 

Mozu is rough unless you heart seal to archer. She doesn't really need any of the stats Kaze gives her and Midori isn't a great kid for non-online gameplay. Aptitude is bad in Fates (10% isn't worth it). Mozu is a good mom, but imo Midori is bad and Mozu is bad unless you plan on investing in her. Those bases are difficult to overcome while ending up just as good as other units who don't need babying. Tip: you don't need to give her much if you leave her as lvl1-2 archer. Deployment on chapter 10 gives easy peg kills for lots of xp.

 

Charlotte is overkill for Xander. It isn't very optimal. Xander gains overkill STR and you give the best physical mom in the game to a unit who isn't good (siegbert). It does work and works well, but it's not very efficient. IMO, slapping bow knight Selena or Laslow on him is best. He gets skill, speed, and movement which are all things he wants. Also frees Charlotte for other options (Laslow x Charlotte is nasty and makes a god tier Soliel).

 

Leo x Felicia is great.

 

No comment on Benny x Beruka. I use her on Silas, Kaze, or Arthur generally. I've never used Benny. He has a son with a terrible paralogue. Benny definitely likes the flight Beruka gives.

 

Keaton x Selena is probably ok? I'm not sure how the kid turns out, but it's likely not bad. Selena as a peg can fly Keaton around, since he is foot locked. I don't have experience using Keaton.

 

The rest look good.

 

Edited by Centh

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18 minutes ago, Centh said:

I'll give you initial impressions, but also I'd like to know the rationale behind your picks. If you're going to use the child from the pair or not changes the consideration.

 

Some paralogues are hell if you don't do then asap. The first that come to mind are Benny and Xander's child paralogues. They become near impossible after a specific point (I don't remember around which chapter since I never want to recruit their kids). Side note: keeping units in guard stance for a long time and using lots of guard stance is a near sure way to lose. Attack stance is amazing.

 

Corrin x Jakob sounds good. You get two early paralogues and depending on how you use Jakbo, Dwyer can be a really strong cavalier. Kana's paralogues is free xp to get skills from odd classes outside of the normal chapters (how I use Kana's chapter).

 

Silas x Azura can be built soon, but Sophie is going to have very little hp. Sophie and Silas will have access to peg, which is a good option for them. Sophie can end up being a good support unit this way (a second Shigure kinda). Shigure will like this pairing

is also one that can be difficult to support with depending on how you play. Having her able to dance anyone you need makes it take a long time to raise support with a specific unit to S.

 

Mozu is rough unless you heart seal to archer. She doesn't really need any of the stats Kaze gives her and Midori isn't a great kid for non-online gameplay. Aptitude is bad in Fates (10% isn't worth it). Most is a good mom, but I'm Midori is bad and Mozu is bad unless you plan on investing in her.

 

Charlotte is overkill for Xander. It isn't very optimal. Xander gains overkill STR and you give the best physical mom in the game to a unit who isn't good (siegbert). It does work and works well, but it's not very efficient. IMO, slapping bow knight Selena or Laslow on him is best. He gets skill, speed, and movement which are all things he wants. Also frees Charlotte for other options (Laslow x Charlotte is nasty and makes a god tier Soliel).

 

Leo x Felicia is great.

 

No comment on Benny x Beruka. I use her on Silas, Kaze, or Arthur generally. I've never used Benny. He has a son with a terrible paralogue. Benny definitely likes the flight Beruka gives.

 

Keaton x Selena is probably ok? I'm not sure how the kid turns out, but it's likely not bad. Selena as a peg can fly Keaton around, since he is foot locked. I don't have experience using Keaton.

 

The rest look good.

 

Ok, I will give you my rationale for each pairing (Once again in spoiler below):

Spoiler

-Corrin (F) x Jakob: I was actually inspired by the post about WL Jakob, so I had Corrin have the WR heart class chosen for her. This is the fastest way to get WL Jakob to eventually ferry Nohr Noble Corrin around, and help Corrin tank with the dragon stone early game. Kana’s Paralogue is good if I decide to have that friendship seal to use bewteen Jakob and Silas so Jakob can get elbow room and shelter. I’d like your opinion on my chosen boon/bane, as I have been following stuff.

-Azura x Silas: Because there is a chance I may not need Shura’s boots and need Shura himself. Silas provides high movement to ferry Azura around to get to more people. Jakobdin can do the same thing, but I would like to know if WL Jakob is worth it first. And yeah, I definitely saw that Shigure likes the pairing.

-Kaze x Mozu: I’ll admit, this came from a thought about Midori having higher luck to get gold off of the Merchant Lv. 5 skill. If I’ll have to switch, Charlotte might be a good choice, as Kaze needs more strength. But, you have a say on what’s better.

-Xander x Charlotte: I thought Xander would need more Str and Spd. I mean, he is also (to me) the best candidate for backpack Charlotte. There is also Hero Xander, though Selena provides that as well (if Paladin does not work).

-Leo x Felicia: Felicia provides Mag and Spd for Leo in guard stance, Nyx does not (in default classes).

-Benny x Beruka: Yeah, ferrying is the reason. May even help slightly during that Paralogue to get Ignatius into shape briefly. Besides, Beruka has Selena to provide her Spd when she needs it.

-Keaton x Selena: Keaton needs Spd and Skill, and BK Selena provides it. Velouria is also good here. Velouria is basically a better Keaton, due to better stats (especially speed with some pairings).

-Arthur x Effie: Aside from Corrin, this is the earliest viable pairing for Arthur. Percy’s Paralogue is good for money, as everyone agrees with here. Arthur also give Effie a lot of punch in guard stance.

-Odin x Elise: Planning on Strategist Elise here. Not sure what to do with Odin other than Nostank the early game, but there’s good reason this pairing is the best.

-Laslow x Peri: Both provides for each other’s needed stats in guard stance in their default classes, and Peri can ferry Laslow around. Soleil can pull off a good MNSol set with this, too, due to Str and Spd given by Peri.

-Niles x Camilla: Niles provides Spd and Mov for WL Camilla, and Camilla provides Str and Def. BK Nina is also good with this pairing.

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WL Jakob is great. Saves a heart seal and he still gets cav off of Silas. Mmmmm, optimization. Stats end up dope, flight is more dope than just mounted, and you can get it so early. Jakob can get wyvern off Elise, if you have plans for a different playthrough later. You can splash in malig knight for trample, 1-2 range, and aoe chip damage too.

 

It's not that Xander x Charlotte is bad, but Xander doesn't really need the STR. If you're going to use Xander as a main combat unit, he performs very well as a WL through chapters 19-21 (all fliers do). This gives him +2 str and more str growth. There's not really a time Xander doubling doesn't kill the target, even without a STR pairup, so it kinda goes to waste. You want him doubling anyways for guard gauge growth, where one shotting something makes him a bit more vulnerable to EP. My personal favorite is to go pal -> WL -> hero off Selena for Sol -> pal. Ending with Selena Falco backpack. He doubles, can take magic dmg, and if you want even more shenanigans he has access to shurikenbreaker. Xander as a main combat DEMANDS ALL THE TALISMANS! lol. If you're set on Charlotte, go for it. It works. I just want you to know the options and the rationale behind them.

 

+Mag/-luck Corrin is the standard. -def is a possibility for a harder early game with a bit higher offensive growths. Robust is solid for any choice, but imo mag is the way to go for almost any playthrough barring something really specific. E.G. early Dwyer trample!cav.

 

Laslow x Charlotte is dope. Getting access to +5 hp and gamble is solid, while Soliel's bulk reaches the heavens to grab Zeus by the throat yelling "COME AT ME, BRO!". Both Laslow and Soleil perform extremely well as MN with Charlotte. Charlotte gives Laslow everything he needs to get past his less than stellar and late start. This kinda assumes lots of investment. Laslow needs an immediate heart seal, dagger forge, and lots of xp to catch up to the early units. A weakness for this argument is it's the only way I've ever used Laslow as a main combat unit. Otherwise he's a rally bot with a bow in my playthroughs. Bronze bows are great in Conquest.

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22 minutes ago, Centh said:

WL Jakob is great. Saves a heart seal and he still gets cav off of Silas. Mmmmm, optimization. Stats end up dope, flight is more dope than just mounted, and you can get it so early. Jakob can get wyvern off Elise, if you have plans for a different playthrough later. You can splash in malig knight for trample, 1-2 range, and aoe chip damage too.

 

It's not that Xander x Charlotte is bad, but Xander doesn't really need the STR. If you're going to use Xander as a main combat unit, he performs very well as a WL through chapters 19-21 (all fliers do). This gives him +2 str and more str growth. There's not really a time Xander doubling doesn't kill the target, even without a STR pairup, so it kinda goes to waste. You want him doubling anyways for guard gauge growth, where one shotting something makes him a bit more vulnerable to EP. My personal favorite is to go pal -> WL -> hero off Selena for Sol -> pal. Ending with Selena Falco backpack. He doubles, can take magic dmg, and if you want even more shenanigans he has access to shurikenbreaker. Xander as a main combat DEMANDS ALL THE TALISMANS! lol. If you're set on Charlotte, go for it. It works. I just want you to know the options and the rationale behind them.

 

+Mag/-luck Corrin is the standard. -def is a possibility for a harder early game with a bit higher offensive growths. Robust is solid for any choice, but imo mag is the way to go for almost any playthrough barring something really specific. E.G. early Dwyer trample!cav.

 

Laslow x Charlotte is dope. Getting access to +5 hp and gamble is solid, while Soliel's bulk reaches the heavens to grab Zeus by the throat yelling "COME AT ME, BRO!". Both Laslow and Soleil perform extremely well as MN with Charlotte. Charlotte gives Laslow everything he needs to get past his less than stellar and late start. This kinda assumes lots of investment. Laslow needs an immediate heart seal, dagger forge, and lots of xp to catch up to the early units. A weakness for this argument is it's the only way I've ever used Laslow as a main combat unit. Otherwise he's a rally bot with a bow in my playthroughs. Bronze bows are great in Conquest.

Any other thoughts?

I am thinking maybe switching around to Xander x Selena, Laslow x Charlotte, and Keaton x Peri.

I feel the pony ferrying justification for Azura and Silas can apply to Azura and Jakob as well. You even get a Paladin basically by default in Sophie, though the pairing does come a bit later. Still, I think what I have going on is good, don’t you agree?

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You're using too many units.

Cut down to 4 early pairings + Utility units. Kids, prepromotes, and the important late captures fill out the roster.

Edited by joshcja

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27 minutes ago, joshcja said:

You're using too many units.

Cut down to 4 early pairings + Utility units. Kids, prepromotes, and the important late captures fill out the roster.

So trying to go through all paralogues is out of the picture?

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Unless you're going to to grind (dlc, online, very slow pace, etc), lots of these S supports will be difficult to get all at the same time on lunatic. Also depends what units you want to use for support, combat, backpacks, and/or just breeding lol.

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31 minutes ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

So trying to go through all paralogues is out of the picture?

You can do all the paralouges if you like.

Barring DLC/MC abuse using that many units is pretty much a challange run.

Also doing Seigberts paralouge is an excersise in masochism without certain cheese.

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It’s a really fun challenge run. It’s possible even to give every first gen unit an S support and a relevant A+ support and level them all to 20 and then promote them all by the end of chapter 20, but that takes some really intense planning and a good sense of how to work with under-leveled units all the time. (Abuse attack stance, mainly.)

Still, that’s not at all what you should do if you’re just trying to learn how to do a solid Lunatic Conquest clear. A focused team will work a lot better.

Charlotte!Siegbert is a really nice physical unit, in my experience, but his paralogue is very frustrating unless you have a top-tier blender unit or two. Think Sorcerers with Vantage or really strong Sol Master Ninjas, each with a lot of +damage skills.

Edited by Zoran

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Ok, so I changed my pairings. Might make these pairings part of a Hard mode all paralogues run, but I think these would be a nice base for a Loonie run. Pairings with [Loonies] beside it are candidates for the 4 early pairings on Lunatic @joshcja mentioned.

Spoiler

Corrin x Jakob [Loonies]

Silas x Azura [Loonies]

Kaze x Charlotte backpack (Charlotte at least provides strength for Kaze)

Xander x Selena

Leo x Felicia

Benny x Beruka

Keaton x Mozu (Still makes a good Velouria, and Sniper Mozu still gives everything Keaton needs)

Arthur x Effie

Odin x Elise [Loonies]

Laslow x Peri

Niles x Camilla [Loonies]

I just need one more set of [Loonies]. @Centh@Zoran

Edited by Azure the Scale Tipper
Joshcja’s suggestion.

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Oh my Naga, Odin and Elise being absent in lunatic is cray cray.

I'd swap Niles and Silias. Kinshi is a thing Niles wants.

Baracuda x America is my OTP.

Edited by joshcja

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28 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Oh my Naga, Odin and Elise being absent in lunatic is cray cray.

I'd swap Niles and Silias. Kinshi is a thing Niles wants.

Baracuda x America is my OTP.

Sorry, got that fixed.

Silas can ferry Azura around from the start. Niles can only do that eventually, and Azura does not give strength, only speed.

And for Beruka x Arthur, sorry, need the early moola.

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Depends on what you'll be spending gold on. Unless you're going to use nos odin, there isnt much to spend gold on.

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15 minutes ago, Centh said:

Depends on what you'll be spending gold on. Unless you're going to use nos odin, there isnt much to spend gold on.

Well, Nostank Odin is something I might do. What else is there to spend gold on other than seals and weapons? Multiple copies of weapons to maybe forge?

Edit: Btw, have my pairings improved @Centh ?

Edited by Azure the Scale Tipper
Needed to add something.

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1 hour ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

Sorry, got that fixed.

Silas can ferry Azura around from the start. Niles can only do that eventually, and Azura does not give strength, only speed.

And for Beruka x Arthur, sorry, need the early moola.

Cash isn't really tight in CQ (even with an early nos purchase). That's just the game lieing to you.

Niles isn't spending much time in guard stance, and when he does that A+ Arthur support is Str city.

Staves, tonics, seals, and forges are out big money sinks. With a few one and done buys like the braves/bolt axe

Edited by joshcja

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1 minute ago, joshcja said:

Cash isn't really tight in CQ (even with an early nos purchase). That's just the game lieing to you.

Niles isn't spending much time in guard stance, and when he does that A+ Arthur support is Str city.

That might be me still used to guard stance. Especially when his guide emphasizes it:

 

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