Jump to content
jankmaster98

Alternate Story Ideas (Spoilers)

Recommended Posts

I don't know if we already have a thread like this or there's a better place for this thread, but I wanted a place to talk about different ideas someone else or I might have as to how the story could've gone/ what would make a better story. This is all opinion based of course, but I'd like to see some speculation and maybe some people's head canon get unleashed...


My own ideas...

What would the ramifications on the story be if Corrin and Azura were legitimate hostage exchanges for the sake of peace rather than mutual kidnappings? Would this lead to their adopted siblings treating them more or less the same or with a greater distance between the two? How would this effect a Corrin's choice to side with the nation of their birth or the nation that has been their home for as long as they can remember?

[spoiler=Conquest Spoiler]Would it be "more" justifiable if instead of doing it to sit Garon on the throne, the Conquest!Corrin fought Hoshido to build support in Nohr for Xander's cause. Or basically, Xander plans to revolt but can't do it in the middle of a war? Just some thoughts

If anyone has ideas on these thoughts or their own feel free to share, and if there is a better place for me to discuss these types of ideas please feel free to direct me as such.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[spoiler=Revelation spoiler] Remove the plot curse and Hydra and maybe even Valla in its entirety.


Give Garon a personality.

Give Nohr a proper reason to be assholes - or better yet expand upon their existing ones, namely lack of resources, poverty, rampant crime and harsh environment.

Make the siblings less stupid and prone to bone Corrin.

And bam, you've got a story that can make use of the fantastic premise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if we already have a thread like this or there's a better place for this thread, but I wanted a place to talk about different ideas someone else or I might have as to how the story could've gone/ what would make a better story. This is all opinion based of course, but I'd like to see some speculation and maybe some people's head canon get unleashed...

My own ideas...

What would the ramifications on the story be if Corrin and Azura were legitimate hostage exchanges for the sake of peace rather than mutual kidnappings? Would this lead to their adopted siblings treating them more or less the same or with a greater distance between the two? How would this effect a Corrin's choice to side with the nation of their birth or the nation that has been their home for as long as they can remember?

[spoiler=Conquest Spoiler]Would it be "more" justifiable if instead of doing it to sit Garon on the throne, the Conquest!Corrin fought Hoshido to build support in Nohr for Xander's cause. Or basically, Xander plans to revolt but can't do it in the middle of a war? Just some thoughts

If anyone has ideas on these thoughts or their own feel free to share, and if there is a better place for me to discuss these types of ideas please feel free to direct me as such.

Cool ideas, it definitely would have been interesting if Kamui always new he was from Hoshido but not really knowing it until he gets taken there. I'm not fond of the convenient amnesia trope to make your MC a blank slate. I'd rather Kamui grow up with Nohrian values that greatly affect his choice of loyalty and his actions thereafter (Theon Greyjoy, anyone?) Currently, I think the reasons to side with Nohr are pretty weak so they could start by making him more conflicted about leaving his adopted country as a whole rather than just his siblings. Also, cut the "evil king who wants to either murder or make his adopted child cry for some reason" plot line.

Speaking of political hostages for peace, I wish they designed Hoshido as many independent domains 'unified' by the Hoshidan royal faction taking hostages from each feudal lord. Much like Edo period Japan, it would be "peace" but heavily controlled one. Hoshido needs some greying up.

I hate and love this thread already for making me think about what will never be.

Make the siblings less stupid and prone to bone Corrin.

It's like you don't even care about what made Incest Emblem such a successful SRPG. smh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad I'm not the only one who thought of Theon when thinking up this sort of stuff. The idea of upbringing vs blood is there too, expect there the "good guys" are the adopted and the "bad guys" are the blood. Though in that story no one comes out with a black and white morality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's like you don't even care about what made Incest Emblem such a successful SRPG. smh

After playing this game I'm just thankful I don't have any sisters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After playing this game I'm just thankful I don't have any sisters.

The things they were willing to write in the Jugdral games.... shudders*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The things they were willing to write in the Jugdral games.... shudders*

I don't know much about that game, but weren't they tricked? It's not like one of them invited the other to their treehouse for some private face touching.

Staff~ Staff~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had some ideas a while back on what could've been done with Conquest, so excuse me while I pretend to know what I'm talking about for a moment :D

[spoiler=Conquest]

[spoiler=Game Events]

The general idea is that you have a choice at the end of each chapter, you have a choice to make. One that follows Garon's orders and one that disobeys them, with Corrin being rewarded or punished based on the choice they make. There are quite a few aspects to this:

The first is what kind of choices you'd be making. They should start of relatively minor in terms of evilness, like taking crops from conquered territories in order to sustain Nohr's army and population at the expense of the locals; choices that while still somewhat cruel, are more pragmatic than anything else and becoming more morally objectionable in latter chapters, like killing Hoshidan soldiers that are attempting to flee or have already surrendered, possibly including one of Corrin's Hoshidan siblings.

The punishment and reward system could look something like this:

Punishments:

1- Lose 1000g

2- Lose most expensive item (equipped or in inventory)

3- Missions give less experience

4- Permanent -2 to one of Corrin's stats

5- Execute Gunter

6- Execute Felicia/Jakob (whichever one you started with)

7- Execute Silas

Rewards:

1- Gain 1000g

2- Gain 1 Master Seal and 1 Heart Seal

3- Missions give more experience

4- Gain two stat-boost items of your choosing

5- Gain 1 of the following: Armour Shield, Beast Shield, Wing Shield, Point Blank or Bold Stance.

6- Gain 1 Dark Falcon Wing

7- Gain 1 Sighting Lens

I think this would improve the story in a number of ways. The first is that you're giving the option to rebel against Garon, but at a cost, so how much your Corrin is willing to rebel against Garon would be completely up to you. Garon's goal would change from 'make Corrin miserable' to 'make Corrin fall in line', which could make for a a nice bit of gameplay-story integration as I imagine quite a few people would stop rebelling against Garon in order to avoid being punished or because they really want those rewards, an experience similar to what Corrin would be going through at the time. Lastly, it helps the siblings characterisation and their lack of willingness to rebel against Garon at first, since it would be implied that they were rebellious, but eventually broke from Garon's punishments. Xander in-particular would suffer from this, since I'd change his previous retainers deaths from dying in battle or whatever to being executed by Garon when he refused to fall in line and do as daddy said, labeling them as being a 'bad influence' on him.

I also wouldn't base the whole idea around needing to dispose of Garon in order to reform Nohr; starting from chapter 15, you would have the choice of killing Garon and putting Xander on the throne or supporting Garon. Supporting Garon would be better for Nohr at the cost of every other nation, while putting Xander on the throne would result in better relations with other nations but being overall less beneficial for Nohr itself. The ending scene of Xander's path would have a scene where Xander is struggling to work out fair trade relations with the other nations and the surviving Hoshidan siblings being more forgiving towards Corrin, while the end of Garon's path would have the other nations being forced into trade agreements that heavily favour and benefit Nohr while the surviving Hoshidan siblings make it clear that they despise you for what's happened.

[spoiler=Garon]

My vision of Garon is closer to Walhart than anything else, processing both his 'only the strong should rule' attitude as well as the belief that mankind should be the master of it's own destiny rather than answering to religious beings. Garon would've begun his ruler-ship during a time when Nohr was on the brink of collapse from having a Grimleal-esque cult as the state religion. He would've said 'fuck that noise' and abolished the religion before swearing that mankind would answer to no deity.

Nohr would've been rich in mineral resources, but poor in terms of food due to shitty weather. Garon's reign started with trading with nearby nations for crops in order to sustain supply lines for war before conquering said nations and setting up policies in which Nohr takes the majority of that nations resources. Twenty years latter and Nohr had changed from a minor and dying nation into a continental/global superpower, at the expense of all it's neighbors. He rested on his laurels for a while after that, which is when the whole Waifu War happened and Azura was kidnapped. He kidnapped Corrin in retaliation and decided to raise the kid as his own for whatever reason, maybe because he has a soft-spot for kids despite being emotionally abusive.

And then the game starts happening. Garon is done sitting around and reaping the benefits of the current conquests and has his sights set on Hoshido. It will be mentioned that while there's definitely valid reasons to conquer Hoshido (a foot-hold on the Eastern half of the continent and bountiful crop resources being the main reasons), that his reasons for invading are also fueled by revenge and personal grudges, namely that they kidnapped Azura and that Hoshido represents the antithesis of everything he believes in (traditional feudalism vs. meritocracy, religion vs. atheism ETC).

His treatment of his children in-game is a reflection of both how he loves his children and how negatively the Waifu Wars affected him. While he does treat them badly by the standards of most other parents, he does so with a sense of 'this is for your own good' and 'why are you making me hurt you' rather than being actively malicious as well as trying to mold his kids to believe in his ideology. The older the sibling, the closer they are to his ideals i.e. Xander puts his country above all else a la Micaiah while Camilla still has some lines that she won't cross.

He also tolerates Hans and Iago while also being less willing to let them do whatever they want. While both Hans and Iago are terrible people, they're both very good at their jobs and Garon believes in giving important roles to those best capable to fulfill them. So as long as their sadistic tendencies don't negatively impact their abilities to fulfill their roles, he'll give them a bit of leeway when it comes to the being such arseholes about everything.

Edited by Phillius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had some ideas a while back on what could've been done with Conquest, so excuse me while I pretend to know what I'm talking about for a moment :D

[spoiler=Conquest]

[spoiler=Game Events]

The general idea is that you have a choice at the end of each chapter, you have a choice to make. One that follows Garon's orders and one that disobeys them, with Corrin being rewarded or punished based on the choice they make. There are quite a few aspects to this:

The first is what kind of choices you'd be making. They should start of relatively minor in terms of evilness, like taking crops from conquered territories in order to sustain Nohr's army and population at the expense of the locals; choices that while still somewhat cruel, are more pragmatic than anything else and becoming more morally objectionable in latter chapters, like killing Hoshidan soldiers that are attempting to flee or have already surrendered, possibly including one of Corrin's Hoshidan siblings.

The punishment and reward system could look something like this:

Punishments:

1- Lose 1000g

2- Lose most expensive item (equipped or in inventory)

3- Missions give less experience

4- Permanent -2 to one of Corrin's stats

5- Execute Gunter

6- Execute Felicia/Jakob (whichever one you started with)

7- Execute Silas

Rewards:

1- Gain 1000g

2- Gain 1 Master Seal and 1 Heart Seal

3- Missions give more experience

4- Gain two stat-boost items of your choosing

5- Gain 1 of the following: Armour Shield, Beast Shield, Wing Shield, Point Blank or Bold Stance.

6- Gain 1 Dark Falcon Wing

7- Gain 1 Sighting Lens

I think this would improve the story in a number of ways. The first is that you're giving the option to rebel against Garon, but at a cost, so how much your Corrin is willing to rebel against Garon would be completely up to you. Garon's goal would change from 'make Corrin miserable' to 'make Corrin fall in line', which could make for a a nice bit of gameplay-story integration as I imagine quite a few people would stop rebelling against Garon in order to avoid being punished or because they really want those rewards, an experience similar to what Corrin would be going through at the time. Lastly, it helps the siblings characterisation and their lack of willingness to rebel against Garon at first, since it would be implied that they were rebellious, but eventually broke from Garon's punishments. Xander in-particular would suffer from this, since I'd change his previous retainers deaths from dying in battle or whatever to being executed by Garon when he refused to fall in line and do as daddy said, labeling them as being a 'bad influence' on him.

I also wouldn't base the whole idea around needing to dispose of Garon in order to reform Nohr; starting from chapter 15, you would have the choice of killing Garon and putting Xander on the throne or supporting Garon. Supporting Garon would be better for Nohr at the cost of every other nation, while putting Xander on the throne would result in better relations with other nations but being overall less beneficial for Nohr itself. The ending scene of Xander's path would have a scene where Xander is struggling to work out fair trade relations with the other nations and the surviving Hoshidan siblings being more forgiving towards Corrin, while the end of Garon's path would have the other nations being forced into trade agreements that heavily favour and benefit Nohr while the surviving Hoshidan siblings make it clear that they despise you for what's happened.

[spoiler=Garon]

My vision of Garon is closer to Walhart than anything else, processing both his 'only the strong should rule' attitude as well as the belief that mankind should be the master of it's own destiny rather than answering to religious beings. Garon would've begun his ruler-ship during a time when Nohr was on the brink of collapse from having a Grimleal-esque cult as the state religion. He would've said 'fuck that noise' and abolished the religion before swearing that mankind would answer to no deity.

Nohr would've been rich in mineral resources, but poor in terms of food due to shitty weather. Garon's reign started with trading with nearby nations for crops in order to sustain supply lines for war before conquering said nations and setting up policies in which Nohr takes the majority of that nations resources. Twenty years latter and Nohr had changed from a minor and dying nation into a continental/global superpower, at the expense of all it's neighbors.

He rested on his laurels for a while after that, which is when the whole Waifu War happened and Azura was kidnapped. He kidnapped Corrin in retaliation and decided to raise the kid as his own.

And then the game starts happening. Garon is done sitting around and reaping the benefits of the current conquests and has his sights set on Hoshido. It will be mentioned that while there's definitely valid reasons to conquer Hoshido (a foot-hold on the Eastern half of the continent and bountiful crop resources being the main reasons), that his reasons for invading are also driven by personal reasons, namely that they kidnapped Azura and that Hoshido represents the antithesis of everything he believes in (traditional feudalism vs. meritocracy, religion vs. atheism ETC).

His treatment of his children in-game is a reflection of both how he loves his children and how negatively the Waifu Wars affected him. While he does treat them badly by the standards of most other parents, he does so with a sense of 'this is for your own good' and 'why are you making me hurt you' rather than being actively malicious as well as trying to mold his kids to believe in his ideology. The older the sibling, the closer they are to his ideals i.e. Xander puts his country above all else a la Micaiah while Camilla still has some lines that she won't cross.

He also tolerates Hans and Iago while also being less willing to let them do whatever they want. While both Hans and Iago are terrible people, they're both very good at their jobs and Garon believes in giving important roles to those best capable to fulfill them. So as long as their sadistic tendencies don't negatively impact their abilities to fulfill their roles, he'll give them a bit of leeway when it comes to the being such arseholes about everything.

slow_clap_citizen_kane.gif

Do you hear that, Kibayashi and Intelligent Systems?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad I'm not the only one who thought of Theon when thinking up this sort of stuff. The idea of upbringing vs blood is there too, expect there the "good guys" are the adopted and the "bad guys" are the blood. Though in that story no one comes out with a black and white morality.

While I understand that cultural differences isn't a central issue in Fates, I think they really missed a great opportunity by having Kamui experience serious culture shock by siding with Hoshido. Different foods, different customs, different geography and Kamui is just like "Cool! Pass me a dango!". There could be a moment in Birthright where Kamui witnesses something brutal and unnecessary by Nohrian standards (feudal Japanese people weren't big on treating surrendered prisoners very well) that makes him miss his "own" culture and family back in Nohr. If I were to write the story, I'd make it so that Kamui sides with Hoshido based on principles, but he actually finds it very difficult to get readjusted to all their values.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well actually, there are threads like this:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=58843 (Fates Fanfiction Central)

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=58792 (So, the FE: Fates story is a mess so I wanted to try some World Building for Fates)

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=56035 (Fixing Fates story issues)

They're old now though.

Anyway as I brought up in past threads I suggest not making Corrin Anankos' son/daughter (a transparent excuse to let Corrin marry from both sets of siblings), axing and/or merging royal siblings (Corrin has too many siblings), get rid of Slimeman Garon, and so on.

Edited by Alazen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had some ideas a while back on what could've been done with Conquest, so excuse me while I pretend to know what I'm talking about for a moment :D

[spoiler=Conquest]

[spoiler=Game Events]

I just have one complaint about your story (in term of logic). Just saying, I assume you're talking about THE Ganon (not the fake monster).

There are many flaws in Conquest, we can be agree on that, but one thing that Conquest (almost) did right is showing Ganon's autority.

If we put aside the ''ask Hydra what to do'' (because he's the fake monster), Ganon is a very strict ruler, if anyone else disobey him, he/she will be execute. Of course, his family is an exception. But look what happen when Corrin disobey him again, sure, he didn't get executed (because of that damn, stupid dragon) but Garon warned him that if he disobeys him again, he will be execute.

In term of gameplay, your idea is very nice but Ganon is cruel, not dumb. Corrin couldn't possibly disobey that many times without Ganon being really dumb in your story. Sure, the last 3 punishements are great but I think Corrin would be already dead before that can happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just have one complaint about your story (in term of logic). Just saying, I assume you're talking about THE Ganon (not the fake monster).

There are many flaws in Conquest, we can be agree on that, but one thing that Conquest (almost) did right is showing Ganon's autority.

If we put aside the ''ask Hydra what to do'' (because he's the fake monster), Ganon is a very strict ruler, if anyone else disobey him, he/she will be execute. Of course, his family is an exception. But look what happen when Corrin disobey him again, sure, he didn't get executed (because of that damn, stupid dragon) but Garon warned him that if he disobeys him again, he will be execute.

In term of gameplay, your idea is very nice but Ganon is cruel, not dumb. Corrin couldn't possibly disobey that many times without Ganon being really dumb in your story. Sure, the last 3 punishements are great but I think Corrin would be already dead before that can happen.

I agree, Garon is definitely not dumb. He knows full well that sitting on the Hoshido throne will reveal his slimey form, so he makes sure the kids leave first. Then of course you barge in later to interrupt him and to catch him with his pants down, so to speak.

Hmm, Conquest is difficult to fix, but for Revelations...

I'd want a completely separate path. Revelations isn't grey enough. It still involves you winning over people from both sides to get them to work together to save the world. I don't like that. I'd much rather prefer it if you got completely new allies (and possibly a few old allies returned like the maid sisters and Jakob) and the plot was more towards you being an actual third party than just an anti-Garon group. Instead of just defeating Garon and saving the world, you defeated both Garon and Ryoma to get rid of Hoshido and Nohr entirely to make a brand new nation from the two. While it would pretty much be its own game, it'd still have Fates characters to fight against and such. You'd also have a lot more chances at world-building and learning more about the land itself rather than who sits on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, Garon is definitely not dumb. He knows full well that sitting on the Hoshido throne will reveal his slimey form, so he makes sure the kids leave first. Then of course you barge in later to interrupt him and to catch him with his pants down, so to speak.

Hmm, Conquest is difficult to fix, but for Revelations...

I'd want a completely separate path. Revelations isn't grey enough. It still involves you winning over people from both sides to get them to work together to save the world. I don't like that. I'd much rather prefer it if you got completely new allies (and possibly a few old allies returned like the maid sisters and Jakob) and the plot was more towards you being an actual third party than just an anti-Garon group. Instead of just defeating Garon and saving the world, you defeated both Garon and Ryoma to get rid of Hoshido and Nohr entirely to make a brand new nation from the two. While it would pretty much be its own game, it'd still have Fates characters to fight against and such. You'd also have a lot more chances at world-building and learning more about the land itself rather than who sits on it.

I'm not sure that he could know about the throne since he never actually went to Hoshido before his invasion (unless he sended a spy).

Oh I wish Revelations wasn't just a ''everyone vs the big bad guy'' cliché. Especially, since they had a good start with chapter 7, I think we don't need new characters but just characters that fight for Corrin (Felicia, Flora, Jacob, Azura, Guntler, Silas and maybe Mozu) against everyone, not just Ganon.

Edited by Nym

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the entire third path stuff should be removed and all that but it gives the question to what would have happened instead in ch5.

 


Perhaps something like Garon (who is the real garon) noticed that Corrin is being kept in Hoshido and decided to send some trained assassins or mercenaries to silence Corrin so that he won't give away any information about Nohr just in case. After the enemies were dealt with, Ryoma received words that the Nohrian are at the borders and begins ch6. Mikoto remains alive and possibly a boss in Conquest path. On top of that, maybe Corrin would not be able to remember what happened during the kidnap and the dragon thing would not happen since valla stuff is gone.

Hence, Corrin would pick Nohr because he was raised with the Nohrian silbings and trusted them more, believing what Garon did was just due to a misunderstanding of sort while at the same time, Corrin would choose Hoshido because of Garon tried to kill him/her twice and thought that Garon is evil and should be taken down (something like the original game).



I think it would be very difficult for Corrin to suppress both Hoshido and Nohr by himself even if he had help. He could go for Scarlet and the Ice Village and possibly some other OC characters or countries but they would have to be resourceful and powerful enough to overthrow two dominating countries on the continent.

 

There could be some plot hole or are just weird since i should be working on my Physics stuff and its midnight but I wanna contribute for a bit lol.

 



I'm not sure that he could know about the throne since he never actually went to Hoshido before his invasion (unless he sended a spy).

Oh I wish Revelations wasn't just a ''everyone vs the big bad guy'' cliché. Especially, since they had a good start with chapter 7, I think we don't need new characters but just characters that fight for Corrin (Felicia, Flora, Jacob, Azura, Guntler, Silas and maybe Mozu) against everyone, not just Ganon.


If we keep the dragon thing, Garon could have received a warning from Anankos to tell him not to sit on the throne. (At leas thats what i thought at first but oh well lol).
If we don't keep the dragon thing, the throne would be magical without any explanation?? Since it came from the King of Valla, and Garon and Sumeragi knew him, I would assume Garon would knew about the king of Valla gifting Sumeragi such a throne.

 

By the way, why doesn't Garon get something special then? Hoshido gets the throne of truth while Nohr gets nothing??

Edited by Integrity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the entire third path stuff should be removed and all that but it gives the question to what would have happened instead in ch5.

Perhaps something like Garon (who is the real garon) noticed that Corrin is being kept in Hoshido and decided to send some trained assassins or mercenaries to silence Corrin so that he won't give away any information about Nohr just in case. After the enemies were dealt with, Ryoma received words that the Nohrian are at the borders and begins ch6. Mikoto remains alive and possibly a boss in Conquest path. On top of that, maybe Corrin would not be able to remember what happened during the kidnap and the dragon thing would not happen since valla stuff is gone.

Hence, Corrin would pick Nohr because he was raised with the Nohrian silbings and trusted them more, believing what Garon did was just due to a misunderstanding of sort while at the same time, Corrin would choose Hoshido because of Garon tried to kill him/her twice and thought that Garon is evil and should be taken down (something like the original game).

I think it would be very difficult for Corrin to suppress both Hoshido and Nohr by himself even if he had help. He could go for Scarlet and the Ice Village and possibly some other OC characters or countries but they would have to be resourceful and powerful enough to overthrow two dominating countries on the continent.

There could be some plot hole or are just weird since i should be working on my Physics stuff and its midnight but I wanna contribute for a bit lol.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned the world-building. Like we know there's other small countries and stuff, and it's not completely unheard of in FE games for a tiny group to band together other small groups to overthrow the bad guy. We just need to learn more about them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had an idea that would both add a bit of greyness to Hoshido, and explain Nohr and specifically Garon, and it helps with the fact that I have been able to play the game now to get an idea of how this would work.

My idea was that Hoshido and Nohr had fought before. About 30-40 years ago there was another war that occured where Hoshido was still a bit of a developing kingdom rather than the many tribes that they once were. Nohr was you typical knights in shining armor kingdom. A order of knights and priests, their land was capable of producing crops and had bountiful resources, and Garon at the time was a beloved king that ruled with kindness. This war started out between the two more out of Hoshido's newly found power because of the tribes being united, and thought they could topple the giant that was Nohr. Unfortunately for them Nohr had better military strength and experience, and the war wasn't going to well for them. Hoshido took a bit of a dark turn, and assassinated part of the Nohr royal family, and kidnapped a child. Garon's wife was killed, and his daughter, Azura, was kidnapped. This started a dark turn in Garon, causing him to abandon the values he once held close to him. He abandoned his faith, and started to become a bit more ruthless. This all sets up Nohr's overall dark turn to what you see in Conquest. After the war Garon disbanded the order of knights, and started a witch hunt to "imprison" the remaining knights as he accused them of letting Hoshidan assassins kill his wife and kidnap his child. The knights that lived scatttered across the land taking on new lives to hide from their king, while one knight decided to hide right under Garon's nose, Gunter. Gunter was a lesser known knight in the order, which allowed him to work underneath Garon without it being known. Gunter was hired by Garon to teach the Crown Prince skills in fighting, which also allowed Gunter to instill some of the "old Nohrian" values into the young prince in hopes that one day he would take over. This sets up Xander being completely different from his father, and establishes why he keeps working behind his back.

Hoshido on the other-hand had a bit of problems themselves after their actions during the war. The Hoshidan's were split, some in support of their current king, others ashamed of what was done. This caused the Hoshidan General, Sumeragi, to act. A revolution started in Hoshido that led to the fall of their current king, and Sumeragi taking over as the new king. With the war still technically going on, Sumeragi, wanting to pave a new path for Hoshido, sends an offer to Nohr for a peace meeting. Garon accepts, and this is where the event happens that results in Sumeragi's death and Corrin's kidnapping. Garon kidnaps Corrin and kills Sumeragi as a form of retribution for the death of the queen and the kidnapping of Azura. This holds the two countries at a stand still for a few years before the war picks up again, which is where Fates would pick up. Garon's reasoning for starting this war again is for vengeance for what he sees as Hoshido destroying his kingdom.

Ill put the rest of this in spoilers because it gets a little long.

I need to expand on a bit of what goes on in Nohr before continuing. Nohr as I said takes a dark turn. King Garon himself takes a turn from his faith because in his eyes they never helped him. He then takes a turn for the worst and starts turning to darker forces for power, specifically demonic forces. He disbands the knight order as I said before, which sets up a few things. The order is hunted by Garon with the help of brothers who are traitors to their order, Iago and Hans. They promise the knowledge of the orders safe houses and safety measures for power in the kingdom. As I said the knights scatter to various places, some go to small villages, Gunter specifically works under Garon, but the largest group of them go to Cheve. This is where you get the Cheve rebels. The knights adopt the idea of using wyverns instead of their traditional horses in order to blend into the new way of Nohr, and train the village. The leader eventually has a daughter that is left in charge when he dies, whose name is Scarlet.

Garon, as stated before, has kidnapped Corrin and killed Sumeragi as vengeance for what Hoshido did to Nohr. At this point Garon has become completely subservient to his new found "deity". This being starts promising Garon vengeance for his kingdom, and gives him the order to give Corrin the cursed sword, and that the events that would unfold while Corrin is in Hoshido would reignite the flames of war for Garon to take his vengeance. Little does Garon know that this entity is not a deity, but is a demon. The story goes the same way until you get to the "invisible kingdom" part of conquest. After chapter 14 the story would go in a completely different direction. The player will learn of what garon has been toying around with, and figure out that this sudden change is due to Garon being possessed, or in the process of, by a demon lord. Once the player figures this out, chapter 15 is completely replaced. THe chapter would start out with the player starting to go to sleep. Once he is, a nightmare starts occuring, but this one is unnatural. It all starts with the player "waking" up in a place filled with fire and screams. Judging by the structures that are on fire, it is Hoshido. oVEr the course of COrrin exploring his dream, he learns he isnt the only one trapped in this nightmare, both of the royal families are. The player encoutners his Hoshidan siblings and his NOhrian siblings, and it all seems to be starting again.

ryoma and Takumi start questioning XAnder as to what the hell is going, XAnder states that he doesn't know and that he thought it was the work of Hoshido. It seems like a fight is going to break out when everything just stops. The only one that seems to be missing is Azura. An unnaturally deep voice starts talking. "I am glad you all could make it" the voice says. As the group looks towards the direction the player sees a figure standing at about 10 feet tall. Dark red skin glowing with heat, black bone like spines portruding from its body. A long tail that looks so sharp that it could even pierce through corrin's dragon hide. Glowing red eyes, and large horns coming from its head, and a wicked smile that strikes fear into everyone around him. The being looks around at the group and starts talking. THe being starts by introducing itself as Ahazu. He says that Hoshido has something that he wants, and due to the "weak willed fool" that is GARon, he has granted him and his army entrance to this plane. he starts explaing how fun it will be to tear apart the lives of two countries in order to get what he wants. as he says this he raises an arm into the air and finishes with "here let me give you a taste of what is to come." a portal opens behind him with demons pouring forth. The preparation then starts with the player in control of both of the royal families. When the chapter starts it is given no clear objective, and the player seems vastly outmatched. as the fight goes on it seems as if the fight is unwinnable. Barely any damage gets through on the demons, and they seems to start wiping out the player's forces. The only characters that do not fall are Ryoma, XAnder, and Corrin. Once all three of them drop to one hit point, a cutscene plays.

similar to the cutscene earlier in the game, you see azura walking forward singing. It then shows Raijin, Seigried, and the Yato glow with a faint white light. The cutscene ends and all three of the characters are returned to full health with the three weapons starting with the title blessed. Ahazu seems frustrated and says how is that possible, and commands the demons to kill them as he exits through a portal. THe fight goes much easier, with the player cutting through the demons and awakening from this nightmare.

unfortunately that is all I have at the moment.. I know the reason ahazu wants into the main plane is he is after something that will give him power over the other demon lords in hell. THe other thing I want to do is actually move the above event towards the later chapters so that the Nohr v hoshido story can actually start wrapping itself up a little more before the "main" bad guy reveals himself, and I definitely want GAron to be the one possessed because i have an idea for a point where he kind of "Redeems" himself and attempts to right what he did wrong. Im just not sure what would be going on in between these chapters. my thoughts behind it was that this would play out more like Radiant Dawn did, with the two sides joining together by the end, which would get rid of the entire third route idea. My idea is missing a lot so I would love some feedback on what would be good ways to fill in gaps, how to end this, or what could be done better. I know I want to include the knight order somehow with having cheve, Scarlet, and Gunter have more importance to the story, especially in the later half.

EDIT: Okay, got a bit more back story I thought of for the two kingdoms that could include Valla in a way, since I realized that was kind of missing.

Alright, so way before the war between Hoshido and Nohr, centuries before hand we have Valla. Valla was one of those mystical kingdoms that consisted of humans and dragons living with each other. This is where you get the various tribes. the Ice Tribe is a descendent of the Frost Dragons that had lived in the mountain regions of Valla, and the Fire Tribe are descendants of the Fire Dragons that lived in the underground of Valla. Valla was a monarchy that was ruled by a family for hundreds of years. The family was a descendant of Anankos. Valla had three siblings. One was the king of Valla, and the other two had set off to venture into the other lands. For right now we will jut name the the Dusk Dragon and the Dawn Dragon. Unfortunately, while the king of Valla was blessed with immortality as king, the two brothers sacrificed their own to found their own kingdoms. The Dusk Dragon traveled to the west of Valla in search of land for him to found a kingdom, while the Dawn Dragon went to the east. The Dawn Dragon founded his kingdom, and named it Hoshido. Hoshido tried to contain a large amount of varying people under a new style of leadership. Hoshido was ruled by a council with a represenative of each of the races or people represented, but as time went on tensions grew between them and Hoshido fractured into many tribes. The Dusk Dragon founded his kingdom, and named it Nohr. While it did not fracture the same way Hoshido did, it faced many problems of its own. The kingdom tried to find its way and form an identity for itself, going through years of fighting and conquest before turning to ways of kindness and peace. Hoshido, watching its sister country prosper, finally found something that the tribes could agree on, jealousy. They wanted what Nohr had, so they had joined together once more to take for themselves what Nohr had. This leads into the war between the two countries. (Keep in mind this is a quick summary, this would of all taken place over hundreds and hundreds of years.)

Unfortunately Valla was having problems of its own, fighting a war with the demon lord Ahazu. Ahazu wished to absorb the power of the kingdom in order to give himself control over the other demon lords in hell. The king knew Valla wouldn't win the fight, and that the best they could do was to hold them off. The king fought Ahazu himself, ending in the temporary banishment of Ahazu, but gravely injuring the king. The king sends his wife, Mikoto, and their newborn son to Hoshido, in hopes that the heir to the throne would live. Once Mikoto would leave, he would seal the kingdom away, to be locked in battle until the heir to the throne could return. Thus why the Yato sends itself to Corrin. The Yato is the key to the kingdom, that only those of the royal line can use to undo the seal on the kingdom. Ahazu, knowing of this plan removed some of his army from battle, and planned to take advantage of the grief stricken king of Nohr. His plan was to kill both Corrin and Mikoto, so that he could regain entrance into Valla with the rest of his army, and gain the power he wanted once and for all.

As said in the previous spoiler tab, Azura "awakens" the three weapons temporarily. I am really unsure how she fits in though. Maybe she was sent by Valla to make sure Corrin and the wielders of Siegfried and Raijinto get led on the right path, though due to her inexperience she is not sure how to do that? I also want the Siegfriend and Raijinto to be of some kind of importance, perhaps they were the two brothers swords when they left, which is why when "awakened" they could damage Ahazu? Not sure on that yet.

Edited by Tolvir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be nice to learn more about the various tribes and Valla more. Or well, expand upon them in this case. Another location I'd like to hear more of would be Cheve. All I know is it has powerful knights or something and it is where Garon took Corrin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually though of some stuff too, but I have only written a bit due to school and me being a lazy bastard.

Though I will admit my story is more or less a potshot at "Hoshido can do no wrong" attitude of the game, and less about greying it.

This copied from a message I sent to NekoKnight about the fanfiction thread, and while are mainly bios, also detail some changes I made to the premise,

1.The singing used by people in the past to calm Hydra down is now an invention made to end the dragon wars, which destroyed Touma. It now affects anything with dragon blood, such as the royal families. While it calms dragons down, the process is painful for the dragon.

2. No barrier surrounding Hoshido.

2. Azura was kidnapped by Hoshido in hopes of trading her for Corrin, but Garon fearing they would not keep their word, declined. She became a prisoner, and sang to comfort herself as she grew older. But her song, causing pain to the Hoshido royal family, led to her tongue being cut out, and severe abuse from them for the next several years, with the trauma leaving her mute. Lately she's been having nightmares involving a voice telling her to destroy Hoshido.

5. Garon, the king of Nohr. Grief-stricken by the deaths of his lovers, and the state of his kingdom, he is a broken man who strives to care for what's left of his family. He keeps his youngest, Elise and Corrin out of political affairs, hoping to keep their innocence safe. He regrets not being able to spend time with his family, and is often seen drinking his sorrows away. His biggest regret is the abduction of Corrin, which was a accident. He had invited King Sumeragi to a meeting to discuss the possibility of trading for crops from Hoshido. Having been promised help from Sumeragi, his joy turned to sorrow, as that was a pretext for Sumeragi to mock him and his kingdom as "Bloodthirsty barbarians" in person. He then hears a voice telling to murder Sumeragi. Overcome with grief at the thoughtof his people starving to death,and anger at being cruelly lied to, he obeys, and kills Sumeragi and his guards with the help of magic blessed upon him by the voice. The voice then identified himself as Nohr's guardian deity, the Dark Dragon, who was worshipped due to his power to bring rain to Nohr. The deity explains that the current drought Nohr is experiencing is due to the deity of Hoshido nullfiying his power, and that to stop it, Hoshido must be razed to the ground. Before Garon can take this in, he hears a cry of a newborn, and finds Sumeragi's son. Horrified Sumeragi brought his own child away from the safety of home, and feeling guilt for killing the child's father, he decides to adopt the child, ignoring the deity's warning that the child would bring ruin to Nohr. He names the child Corrin, and keeps his origins a secret from him, not wishing to for Corrin to grow up with the painful knowledge he is a Hoshidian, not a Nohrian. Since then, Garon had obeyed the deity, believing it's guidance will be Nohr's salvation.

Sorry for the huge amount of text.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just have one complaint about your story (in term of logic). Just saying, I assume you're talking about THE Ganon (not the fake monster).

There are many flaws in Conquest, we can be agree on that, but one thing that Conquest (almost) did right is showing Ganon's autority.

If we put aside the ''ask Hydra what to do'' (because he's the fake monster), Ganon is a very strict ruler, if anyone else disobey him, he/she will be execute. Of course, his family is an exception. But look what happen when Corrin disobey him again, sure, he didn't get executed (because of that damn, stupid dragon) but Garon warned him that if he disobeys him again, he will be execute.

In term of gameplay, your idea is very nice but Ganon is cruel, not dumb. Corrin couldn't possibly disobey that many times without Ganon being really dumb in your story. Sure, the last 3 punishements are great but I think Corrin would be already dead before that can happen.

And yet a lack of agency is one of the biggest problems with the story, since Corrin and the Siblings look weak-willed and of poor moral fibre considering that they're willing to follow someone so obviously evil. Go onto any discussion about Conquest's story and you'll find people complaining about how the mustache-twirlers will go 'Garon's orders m8, he'll execute you if you try to stop us' before doing something really evil and all Corrin can do is stand their and angst about it. The idea is that the choices start out relatively inconsequential at first (like taking crops but leaving enough behind so that the towns can survive for the winter) and slowly becoming more and more difficult to justify (i.e. commuting mass executions of prisoners or smuggling them away from Nohrian-controlled territory. The idea was also that, while emotionally abusive, he's a lot softer on his family this time around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never really trusted Azura, even after beating all 3 parts of Fates. I would have loved it if the game took a really dark turn and she turned out to be some sort of evil demon who was just manipulating you the whole time.

I know that a plot twist like that would never really happen, but I think it would have made her bland character archetype WAY more interesting.

Also, is it just me, or does the dialogue in Fates tend to get REALLY preachy? Honestly most of the time I end up tuning out whatever message they're trying to send because the character's lines get really repetitive after awhile.

I know this contradicts what I said about Azura, but I think the story could benefit from not having a demon/dragon be responsible for all the bad things that are happening in the game. Wouldn't it be great if the game just addressed the sometimes there are just bad people in the world instead of blaming it on them being possessed by something?

Last Thing:

I always hated how my avatar was really trusting and kind all the time, I wish I could make more complex decisions about how I wanted to go about the plot in my game. I wish I had the option to try and be evil basically. I honestly think it would give the game more layers, and allow for more complex storylines. ( If you've ever played a Fallout game, that's the kind of complexity I'm talking about.)

IN A NUTSHELL:

* I wish the game could be more realistic about it's morals

*I wish I could make more complex decisions, that includes the ability to act evilly rather than being a hero

*I wish the game would take more time for character development in general. ( less preachy, more real conversations)

Edited by TheScrubNewb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never really trusted Azura, even after beating all 3 parts of Fates. I would have loved it if the game took a really dark turn and she turned out to be some sort of evil demon who was just manipulating you the whole time.

Quick question: why a demon? Why can't Azura be Azura and still manipulate you for her own ends? In general I consider human villans far more interesting due to all the drama that it allows; having someone be something else usually feels like an excuse to not feel bad when shit hits the fan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And yet a lack of agency is one of the biggest problems with the story, since Corrin and the Siblings look weak-willed and of poor moral fibre considering that they're willing to follow someone so obviously evil. Go onto any discussion about Conquest's story and you'll find people complaining about how the mustache-twirlers will go 'Garon's orders m8, he'll execute you if you try to stop us' before doing something really evil and all Corrin can do is stand their and angst about it. The idea is that the choices start out relatively inconsequential at first (like taking crops but leaving enough behind so that the towns can survive for the winter) and slowly becoming more and more difficult to justify (i.e. commuting mass executions of prisoners or smuggling them away from Nohrian-controlled territory. The idea was also that, while emotionally abusive, he's a lot softer on his family this time around.

I disagree with all of the siblings being like this, with Elise being innocent and not sent to do other dirty jobs the rest of the family does ingame, even Garon takes her to listen to his favorite singer to forget her troubles, and Leo tends to defy his fathers orders from the shadows. From the beginning of the game where he faked their deaths, to pretending to go on a witch hunt for dancers, and killing Iago when Corrin hesitates. He's the one sibling who always tries to subvert Garon's actions when he can. He's just not stupid enough to defy Garon in front of him. Even in Revelations despite not believing Corrin he lets them go and shows where the prisoners are after killing Zoura, while leaving when he could have attacked like Garon would have wanted. Only in Birthright does he actually try to be ruthless, and fails that because he's just failing to be Tsun.

Can't disagree about Camilla and Xander. Camilla would rather Corrin die by her hands/get killed than defy the father she fears.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This topic is <3

Anyway, I always thought that Fates could have explored more of their lore (because seriously I want to know how Hoshido and Nohr came to be how they were in the story - it could have changed a lot of things.), so here's me trying to fill that in.

#1: Forgotten History - Valla: When It became Atlantis

Valla formerly existed as the central, neutral territory between Hoshido and Nohr. All three kingdoms co-existed in peace, until the 25th Tri-Renewal Conference happened. The Tri-Renewal Conference was where treaties were revised, trades established as well as various other policies. During the 25th Conference, however, the Advocation, an organization of power-hungry vigilantes led by Rephareth otherwise known as "Wrath's Hand", struck.

Disgruntled with the way the lands were ruled and wanting power - seeking to rule the lands, Rephareth sought to end the alliance of the three kingdoms. He also had a target in mind - someone whom he sought to utterly destroy to receive divine power.

The target?

Anankos.

And so Rephareth, with a team of his best magic-users, bound him in chains and forced him to watch as the people he so loved were massacred, some tortured, in front of him.

None were left alive except for Anankos who could not be killed as he was a Divine Being.

Driven by rage, destruction was wrought upon the land as Anankos unleashed his fury. No one was spared that day, and Anankos was driven to insanity.

Anankos then weaved his magic upon Valla, hiding it from the eyes of the rest of the world as he planned and plotted the destruction of both Nohr and Hoshido. For he would destroy all to make it all anew.

#2: Forgotten History (Pt.2) - Nohr: The Ceasing of Honour

The ruined alliance devastated both kingdoms. Nohr, who had been dependent on Hoshido for resources in return for military assistance, were overrun by the corrupt and eventually became a kingdom prioritizing glory and power. Riots were rampant, as was violence as the motto "survival of the fittest" became the creed of Nohr. No means were too cruel as the concept of honour ceased to exist.

Nobility fought one another, each seeking the throne for themselves.

Through sheer force and ambition, using any means necessary, Garon forced his way to the throne.

#3: Forgotten History (Pt.3) - Hoshido: To Uphold Our Vows

Despite the alliance being ruined, the elite clans held a table conference and unanimously agreed that their people was the priority. Thus, they came to the conclusion that the throne would be taken in by the eldest of the remaining royal family upon their coming-of-age. A council consisting of representatives from both noble and civilian clans was formed, which would then be led by the future king and queen as they served as advisors.

Tradition and honour were their creed, as their morals would dictate no less.

Eventually, Sumeragi would take the throne alongside with Mikoto.

Edited by NightStar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...