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vanguard333

Best and Worst Map Gimmick

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In your opinion, what was the best map gimmick in Fates, and what was the worst? Which was the most interesting, and which was the most irritating?

In my opinion, the best was the wind currents that slowed down flying units in chapters 11 and 24 of Birthright, and the worst would be a tie between the giant streams of fire in Birthright chapter 23, and the winds in Conquest Chapter 20 (those winds would have been a lot better if only one or two at a time and they didn't push you as far).

Note: This includes but is not limited to Dragon Veins (example; the fox illusions in Conquest Chapter 19 count as a map gimmick)

EDIT: I don't consider it the best or the worst, but the water draining in Conquest chapter 10 gets an honourable mention.

Edited by vanguard333

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The poison/medicine pots were neat.

Winds can go suck a dick but they do legitimately add thought and difficulty.

The worst are the lolcanttouchthis fox cloned that made me have to have everyone but two pairs run laps around the map

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I feel like the only person who legitimately enjoyed Conquest chapter 20 and its wind currents. That was my favorite gimmick. Chapter 19 was my least favorite since it felt so random and nonsensical, with

Hinoka's last chapter in Conquest taking a close second.

Honestly, I thought the DV and map gimmicks were handled pretty well overall. Not a whole lot of complaints from me. Oh, I guess I did find Sophie's paralogue with the return of the suicidal villager AI to be annoying.

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I feel like the only person who legitimately enjoyed Conquest chapter 20 and its wind currents. That was my favorite gimmick. Chapter 19 was my least favorite since it felt so random and nonsensical, with

Hinoka's last chapter in Conquest taking a close second.

Honestly, I thought the DV and map gimmicks were handled pretty well overall. Not a whole lot of complaints from me. Oh, I guess I did find Sophie's paralogue with the return of the suicidal villager AI to be annoying.

This pretty much, tho 21 Conquest can also die in a fire.

unless you know how to trivialize it, in which case the map is just bad instead of gimmicky

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I like most of the gimmicks that aren't heavily one-sided and instead rely on clever usage by the player which can backfire if not used wisely. That way it feels like it's legitimately your fault when things go terribly as opposed to the enemy just having some trump card they can screw you with when they want. Most of the latter examples I disliked, save for the water draining in Conquest chapter 10. That made the map a whole lot more chaotic in a good way.

I think my favorite was the cloning gimmick in Conquest chapter 15. You really have to strategize your equipment, positioning, and the order in which you take your actions there, or else a move that may seem good with one character on one side of the map may end up screwing their counterpart on the other side.

I also actually liked the gimmick in Conquest chapter 24 with Hinoka speeding up fliers and slowing down ground units. It forces you to decide whether or not you want to slow the fliers down at the cost of possibly allowing ground units who would otherwise be out of reach to get you.

I generally don't like it when levels have a bunch of harmful dragon veins just handed to the enemy. Birthright chapter 22 was probably my least favorite in that regard. It's like no matter where you go, Camilla can just rain damage down upon you, and then high-movement fliers come in to finish you off. I know you can hide in the alleyways, but it's not like you're making any progress when you do that...

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I didn't really find any of the gimmicks that bad. Even conquest's chapter 19 on lunatic wasn't that bad imo. That said, I haven't played Revelation yet and I heard it had some really annoying gimmicks, so we'll see.

Favorite might actually be Conquest's chapter 24. Figuring out a way to deal with all the fliers was really fun , and realising I could use the dragon vein to reach Asama without having to deal with the Hexing Rod was really cool

Edited by Nobody

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Loved the training water of Conquest 10 and the pots of Conquest 12.

The fox illusions in Conquest 19 were awful.

The wind was meh. It took a lot of figuring out but once you figure it out it's actually really enjoyable.

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I've only finished Birthright so far but holy shit those dragon veins in the second Camilla chapter were really fucking annoying.

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I can't process through all the gimmicks, but just a short mention

Good Gimmicks: Hoshido 23, Conquest 8, 10, 19, 20, 25, Endgame

Undecided: Hoshido Endgame, Conquest 24

Bad Gimmicks:Hoshido 10, 11, 19, 20, Conquest 12, Revelations 10, 11

In general, I don't really like one off gimmicks, movement gimmicks, or "trivial" gimmicks.

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I love map 21, so the whole freezing all units who are advancing towards you was amazing. Maybe the jump in difficulty was a bit too much, and maybe they should've made it more beneficial to wait for the right moment instead of using it as soon as you can as it usually turned out, but those would be minor tweaks to a great map.

The worst is without a doubt slow-moving platforms and tight alleyways with obstacles in Revelations - if those don't count as gimmicks, then invincible foxes with Pass and Beastkiller in harsh terrain.

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I think a million people have already mentioned it, but I just want to throw my money in with them - the fox illusions were the worst. A one off gimmick that did nothing more than irritate (and it's not like your foxes get it). Boo to that map.

I liked Conquest 17 (the ninja tunnels) a lot. I know people don't tend to like this map, but I found the wall stuff fun (and ninjas very easy to kill with bows).

I also like Kana's and Asugi's children maps. The water in Kana's was interesting (wish more maps had that in it) and racing Asugi to the exit was interesting.

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My least favourite part isn't a map gimmick per se. I dislike consecutive maps.

For map gimmick proper, that darned volcano. I already cannot save, and now I have to deal with unpredictable changes of enemy attack ranges with base class units in tow.

Edited by nocturnal YL

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For best, I have to say Hinoka's movement in Conquest 24. It was a big back-and-forth between you and here, where you had to decide the best time to let fliers have the extra movement and the best time for ground forces to have it. The medicine-or-poison pots were a lot of fun, too, and Takumi using Dragon's Vein to dry up the water added an extra layer of difficult fun to Conquest Chapter 10.

I actually liked the wind gimmick, sure it was annoying, but when it blew you away it was usually your fault, and it had a lot of strategic uses, like dividing enemies or moving your forces to a group they were better suited to fighting.

For worst, those stupid foxes in Conquest 19 and their stupid illusions can go die in a hole.

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TBH, I'm not even a fan of map gimmicks, so I really only have complaints. The worst for me were the lava, snow shoveling, wind currents, fox illusions, and the goddamn map where all your units on a particular side of the map would get damaged, plus obstacle destruction.

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I think the Kitsune illusions were the worst for me. At least you could sort of control the wind and Chapter 21 basically encouraged you to skip it. 19 sort of threw the illusion gimmick at you from out of nowhere and basically just said "lel you can't touch these units because shut up. Hope your healers aren't too frail!"

Edited by Avalanche

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The Fox illusions were annoying as hell. Once you know how it works its a piece of cake but that avoidance and gimmick make it hard for weak characters.

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I love map 21, so the whole freezing all units who are advancing towards you was amazing. Maybe the jump in difficulty was a bit too much, and maybe they should've made it more beneficial to wait for the right moment instead of using it as soon as you can as it usually turned out, but those would be minor tweaks to a great map.

The worst is without a doubt slow-moving platforms and tight alleyways with obstacles in Revelations - if those don't count as gimmicks, then invincible foxes with Pass and Beastkiller in harsh terrain.

Conquest 21?

Granted I'm only on hard not lunatic but I was able to steamroll that map, I used a couple freezes just because they were there to keep the bottom 0Exp reinforcements away, but they didn't seem necessary.

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Calling Conquest 21 a "jump in difficulty" is something I just can't parse. 20 was the hardest map in the game for me.

I liked almost all the map gimmicks I've seen (Conquest so far, yet to do an especially "gimmicky" map in Birthright). 10, 11, 12, 15, 21, 24 all good! 20 I go back and forth on, it's kinda brilliant and yeah has tactical applications, but it does take some getting used to the exact mechanics of and will kill you until you figure out. And is very unforgiving while you do.

As much as I thought the fox map was easy (which I think has to do with my unit choices? The foxes can do approximately nothing to wyverns, and once you realise they have Pass you should know not to get your squishies too close... but if you do you can always pair them up or wall them) and somewhat confused by the complaints about it, I don't think the illusion gimmick is that interesting either, and it's a bit uneven how you can't target them but you also can't walk through them. That doesn't make sense! If I run through them with my sword pointed in front of me, the only way I'm getting stopped is if the fox is taking damage!

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The wind currents can be exploited, and it was thanks to that that I managed to beat the chapter. The only thing I'll say about it is Heartseeker.

Favorite so far:

Velouria's recruitment chapter. You have to think about what you'll do on that single turn where the mages do nothing - get it right, and you can take out the major threats with no fear of retaliation.

Least favorite:

I'm not sure if the Mokushujin's ridiculous trap pits or Birthright Chapter 22 annoyed me more.

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Conquest 21?

Granted I'm only on hard not lunatic but I was able to steamroll that map, I used a couple freezes just because they were there to keep the bottom 0Exp reinforcements away, but they didn't seem necessary.

Calling Conquest 21 a "jump in difficulty" is something I just can't parse. 20 was the hardest map in the game for me.

Huh, this surprises me; when I was playing the amount of damage the Faceless did to all of my units was a lot more than what any enemies had done previously. The Wind Village has an annoying mechanic but it just took a while for me, I'm not sure I'd call it difficult unless you've got a lack of air units or just a lot of slow-moving units in general.

I found the difficulty of Conquest to be a rollercoaster. 10 is one of the hardest maps in the game and 11 one of the easiest; 23 is tough as all get-out but 24 was a breeze (get it?), etc.

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Least favorite:

I'm not sure if the Mokushujin's ridiculous trap pits or Birthright Chapter 22 annoyed me more.

Isn't Birthright 22 the one with Shura? What was so bad about that map? The second one with Camilla was the worst for me, that map felt so unfair.

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Huh, this surprises me; when I was playing the amount of damage the Faceless did to all of my units was a lot more than what any enemies had done previously. The Wind Village has an annoying mechanic but it just took a while for me, I'm not sure I'd call it difficult unless you've got a lack of air units or just a lot of slow-moving units in general.

I found the difficulty of Conquest to be a rollercoaster. 10 is one of the hardest maps in the game and 11 one of the easiest; 23 is tough as all get-out but 24 was a breeze (get it?), etc.

Interesting, I guess we just have different experiences in general, since I also thought 24 was tougher than 23. But then, I bypassed what looked like the harder part of 23 with a ferry run, which pretty much just leaves the map with Oboro's rush (which is legitimate enough) and the boss (who is... one of the better bosses in the game, but notably not as good as 24's).

The only part I agree with rollercoaster-wise is that I think 20 is a very difficult chapter flanked by two relatively easy ones. (I agree that 10's tougher than 11, but I wouldn't call 11 easy, personally, although it's probably pretty easy if you decide to ignore the left side with its lunge ninjas.) But it's less roller-coastery than most FEs for difficulty, because I think even the "easier" Conquest maps are respectable enough and capable of causing problems for people... as evidenced by the fact that we have trouble agreeing on what the easier Conquest maps are.

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Interesting, I guess we just have different experiences in general, since I also thought 24 was tougher than 23. But then, I bypassed what looked like the harder part of 23 with a ferry run, which pretty much just leaves the map with Oboro's rush (which is legitimate enough) and the boss (who is... one of the better bosses in the game, but notably not as good as 24's).

The only part I agree with rollercoaster-wise is that I think 20 is a very difficult chapter flanked by two relatively easy ones. (I agree that 10's tougher than 11, but I wouldn't call 11 easy, personally, although it's probably pretty easy if you decide to ignore the left side with its lunge ninjas.) But it's less roller-coastery than most FEs for difficulty, because I think even the "easier" Conquest maps are respectable enough and capable of causing problems for people... as evidenced by the fact that we have trouble agreeing on what the easier Conquest maps are.

I definitely agree. I would assume that a lot of it comes down to both playstyle and what kind of units you have. For instance, I had three units who could use bows on 24, which helped with the curbstomping. Then I just ignored half the map of chapter 11 and first and then attacked from behind, meaning that I lost no EXP and circumvented the Lunge Ninja. I got chapter 21 on the second try so it's not impossible by any means, but I definitely found it harder than most.

I still expected Hinoka to put up more of a fight than Sakura though. Those bloody Shuriken Tower or whatever they're called, man.

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I thought Conquest's C20 wind currents were very fun. If you figured out how to use it in your favor, it's quite easy to manipulate the gimmick and get to the point fast. Of course if you want the chests things may get a bit hairy.

I disliked the sewers chapter in Birthright. It was easy to avoid the damage, but it was claustrophobic to maneuver the units.

Edited by enzomkII

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