Zero Escape: Zero Time Dilemma - the game is out!

[Luce]

[spoiler=Still the true ending]Oh sure he doesn't exist yet, but why would Delta create him? Why would he make him look like Left if Left didn't factor into the story at all?

While on that subject, why is Delta immortal? Why is it important for him to be Sigma and Diana's son if he's got no emotional connection to them? - I know, I know, he did all that so he could be born but Jesus Christ the lack of emotion just pisses me off.

He's most certainly not like old Sigma and Akane, since they trained young Sigma and Phi and forced them to learn how to use their abilities - Delta simply says that giving them the MOTIVATION was what he was after; he had no need for Carlos and Diana to learn how to SHIFT.

There are also many things which are just casually hand waved, like where did the alien technology came from and how Delta got it. Really, no matter how well they hinted at Delta's existence like with the ending where you could kill him, it still feels like he just popped out of nowhere just to mess with people.

I liked the game overall, but I never imagined the ending would suck this much and be this unfulfilling.

Uchikoshi himself said that a Left clone would have probably made an appearance in ZTD, but we didn't get anything like that.

This is the list of the things that were promised to us, from ZTD's page in the wiki:

What happened to Light Field, Aoi Kurashiki, Seven, Hazuki Kashiwabara, and Gentarou Hongou after the events of 999 will be revealed by Akane and Junpei.

Sigma and Phi won't be a romantic couple. (Source: VLR Answers, 24)

More information about Free the Soul will be revealed. (Source: VLR Answers, 56)

"Dio" will probably appear, but "not as the man we know".

Phi's background will be revealed. (Source: VLR secret archives)

Dashiell Gordain's name will not be mentioned, but by the end of the game, we will understand more about him. (Source: Uchikoshi's twitter)

The worst offenders here are the things about Free the Soul and Left. We didn't get anything new about them, and Brother doesn't even feel like the man he was supposed to be. Are his goals different from the ones we knew in VLR or am I simply getting everything wrong? Didn't he want to create a new race based on Left clones? Didn't he want to stop Akane and Sigma's plan in VLR?

Anyway, being 124 is probably the less weird thing about Delta, since his very existence doesn't make sense (and I don't understand what happened to his eyes). Maybe he's still alive because it's not his real body that travelled through time, but his atomical data? I mean, he transported using an alien machine, who the heck knows what effects it could have on people. That transporter is the funniest deus ex machina ever, I mean, Zero Escape as a series relies on so many (pseudo)scientific things and stuff and then this ALIEN device pops out of nowhere and nobody ingame questions it.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Luce

[Rapier]

The worst offenders here are the things about Free the Soul and Left. We didn't get anything new about them, and Brother doesn't even feel like the man he was supposed to be. Are his goals different from the ones we knew in VLR or am I simply getting everything wrong? Didn't he want to create a new race based on Left clones? Didn't he want to stop Akane and Sigma's plan in VLR?

Anyway, being 124 is probably the less weird thing about Delta, since his very existence doesn't make sense (and I don't understand what happened to his eyes). Maybe he's still alive because it's not his real body that travelled through time, but his atomical data? I mean, he transported using an alien machine, who the heck knows what effects it could have on people. That transporter is the funniest deus ex machina ever, I mean, Zero Escape as a series relies on so many (pseudo)scientific things and stuff and then this ALIEN device pops out of nowhere and nobody ingame questions it.

Do note that it is Alice who gives us the description of Free the Soul. From their perspective, yes, it is a radical religious group that, for all she knows, is bent on destroying the world and repopulating it with Left clones. But Brother reveals that FTS was made with the purpose of preventing the end of the world, similar to the Crash Keys in a way. I'm not saying they're actually heroes, because I believe the part where Alice speaks about their terrorist actions and we know for certain they were responsible for the morphogenetic field experiment that involved Akane. Their methods are extreme and probably unjustified.

And yes, his actions in VLR don't really make sense to me either. If I do a lot of mental gymnastics I can pretend I believe in the excuse that he sent Dio there because he needed to be the threat that helps Sigma and Phi train their SHIFTing abilities and for the former to discover who he really is, but that's really convoluted.

[Luce]

Do note that it is Alice who gives us the description of Free the Soul. From their perspective, yes, it is a radical religious group that, for all she knows, is bent on destroying the world and repopulating it with Left clones. But Brother reveals that FTS was made with the purpose of preventing the end of the world, similar to the Crash Keys in a way. I'm not saying they're actually heroes, because I believe the part where Alice speaks about their terrorist actions and we know for certain they were responsible for the morphogenetic field experiment that involved Akane. Their methods are extreme and probably unjustified.

And yes, his actions in VLR don't really make sense to me either. If I do a lot of mental gymnastics I can pretend I believe in the excuse that he sent Dio there because he needed to be the threat that helps Sigma and Phi train their SHIFTing abilities and for the former to discover who he really is, but that's really convoluted.

Right, that was Alice's point of view back then. It makes more sense now, thank you! I guess the point of the whole organization is to be very morally ambiguous in our eyes (like Brother's goals in ZTD are).

But why would he use specifically Left clones though? He could have used literally anybody else since he has those mind hacking abilities, or he could've used the Sean robots.

Yeah, that was what I was thinking too, but felt very forced as you said-- I don't know, I just have the feeling that Uchikoshi's plans for Brother changed during these four years. I hope he'll do a Q&A soon!

Anyway, does anyone know if there was a gimmick related to the mechanics? We had young Akane's narrative in 999 and Sigma's eye and stuff in VLR. Since ZTD is based on cinematics, did the screen represent like the cameras or something?

[Rapier]

Right, that was Alice's point of view back then. It makes more sense now, thank you! I guess the point of the whole organization is to be very morally ambiguous in our eyes (like Brother's goals in ZTD are).

But why would he use specifically Left clones though? He could have used literally anybody else since he has those mind hacking abilities, or he could've used the Sean robots.

Yeah, that was what I was thinking too, but felt very forced as you said-- I don't know, I just have the feeling that Uchikoshi's plans for Brother changed during these four years. I hope he'll do a Q&A soon!

Anyway, does anyone know if there was a gimmick related to the mechanics? We had young Akane's narrative in 999 and Sigma's eye and stuff in VLR. Since ZTD is based on cinematics, did the screen represent like the cameras or something?

The cinematic view is the gimmick. You see what you'd see if you were looking in a camera. Recall that we see things through Delta's POV (at least most of the time), and he uses the sunglasses with an imbued camera.

My theory for the gimmick was that the player was actually a parasite that controlled others' actions and the snail was a metaphor refering to the player's ability to command characters, but I was wrong. Oh well.

Also, yeah, I also think his plans changed for Brother and I think he ultimately took that path because he wanted to include an excuse for a sequel. The series could've been solved there, with the protagonists stopping Radical-6 from being spread, Brother being permanently dealt with and Free the Soul becoming very weakened/extinct.

Well, thinking about it, maybe he couldn't just end the series there because there's so much that needed to be revealed and expanded upon. It'd feel rushed. I mean, we still have so many questions about Delta. It'd require many more scenes to expand upon his character and connect him to the cast (or, at least, his family).

Edited July 1, 2016 by Rapier

[Original Alear]

If anyone can help with a healing room puzzle...

I'm having issue with a photo. The pattern that looks like a piano key on the chair in the forest version of the healing room. I've taken pictures both zoomed in and not. Either way, the game won't recognize it as a proper picture and open up the slot for the key to be put in the computer.

Guides I've looked at say you need to "line it up" with the pattern that shins green on the wall, but I can't seem to do that. Apparently you're supposed to be able to change the camera angle while zoomed in on the chair, but I'm not able to figure out how to do this.

EDIT-I figured it out, nevermind. I swear to god, the controls for the camera changed in-game the moment I read someone's instructions on how to do it, because I was trying to do it before and it didn't work. (I know, I'm crazy)

Edited July 2, 2016 by PP UP

[Rapier]

If anyone can help with a healing room puzzle...

I'm having issue with a photo. The pattern that looks like a piano key on the chair in the forest version of the healing room. I've taken pictures both zoomed in and not. Either way, the game won't recognize it as a proper picture and open up the slot for the key to be put in the computer.

Guides I've looked at say you need to "line it up" with the pattern that shins green on the wall, but I can't seem to do that. Apparently you're supposed to be able to change the camera angle while zoomed in on the chair, but I'm not able to figure out how to do this.

EDIT-I figured it out, nevermind. I swear to god, the controls for the camera changed in-game the moment I read someone's instructions on how to do it, because I was trying to do it before and it didn't work. (I know, I'm crazy)

I understand that feel.

Also, whenever I was stuck and made a question about how to progress in the game, 5 minutes later I'd figure out how to pass that part on my own. Go figure.

[Original Alear]

So regarding the choice made after the study puzzle (moon, sun, star safe, etc) you put in a word. I was able to get special refusal/denial/wrong answer results by putting in certain words that didn't work as choices.

I was able to get special results by putting in:

-Q

-Zero

-C and D team members (akane gets special msg)

-Gab

EDIT-I just tried Polovtsian and no dice.

EDIT2-No result for Funyarinpa.

Edited July 2, 2016 by PP UP

[Luce]

The cinematic view is the gimmick. You see what you'd see if you were looking in a camera. Recall that we see things through Delta's POV (at least most of the time), and he uses the sunglasses with an imbued camera.

My theory for the gimmick was that the player was actually a parasite that controlled others' actions and the snail was a metaphor refering to the player's ability to command characters, but I was wrong. Oh well.

Also, yeah, I also think his plans changed for Brother and I think he ultimately took that path because he wanted to include an excuse for a sequel. The series could've been solved there, with the protagonists stopping Radical-6 from being spread, Brother being permanently dealt with and Free the Soul becoming very weakened/extinct.

Well, thinking about it, maybe he couldn't just end the series there because there's so much that needed to be revealed and expanded upon. It'd feel rushed. I mean, we still have so many questions about Delta. It'd require many more scenes to expand upon his character and connect him to the cast (or, at least, his family).

Oh, yeah, that makes sense! I thought we were Delta for a while after perceptive end, but then I realized Delta was just with Q-team and I didn't get how we could be him when we played as C/D-team. It was all his sunglasses! Thank you for explaining haha

I also thought about the snail parasite whenever Diana said "I don't know why I did it" after her choices. It would've been kinda cool to be the snail.

I heard Uchikoshi is planning to say something about the series or something at AX (probably about ZTD), and I swear if he tells us that he wanted to leave space for a sequel I'm going to destroy something. I think all the questions about Delta should have been solved within this game, either by making it longer or something, because there probably won't be a fourth game (we were lucky enough to get the third one). I kind of wish we'd seen more of him interacting with his family aside from leaving Diana alive in Q-END:2 (also, about this: why did he kill Sigma but not Diana?)

So regarding the choice made after the study puzzle (moon, sun, star safe, etc) you put in a word. I was able to get special refusal/denial/wrong answer results by putting in certain words that didn't work as choices.

I was able to get special results by putting in:-Q-Zero-C and D team members (akane gets special msg)-GabEDIT-I just tried Polovtsian and no dice.EDIT2-No result for Funyarinpa.

You can get similar answers in other parts of the game too. It's actually quite funny, I always end up messing with the game and putting in everyone's name to see what happens. And sometimes you might get very, very interesting messages/reactions as well!

[Rapier]

Oh, yeah, that makes sense! I thought we were Delta for a while after perceptive end, but then I realized Delta was just with Q-team and I didn't get how we could be him when we played as C/D-team. It was all his sunglasses! Thank you for explaining haha

I also thought about the snail parasite whenever Diana said "I don't know why I did it" after her choices. It would've been kinda cool to be the snail.

I heard Uchikoshi is planning to say something about the series or something at AX (probably about ZTD), and I swear if he tells us that he wanted to leave space for a sequel I'm going to destroy something. I think all the questions about Delta should have been solved within this game, either by making it longer or something, because there probably won't be a fourth game (we were lucky enough to get the third one). I kind of wish we'd seen more of him interacting with his family aside from leaving Diana alive in Q-END:2 (also, about this: why did he kill Sigma but not Diana?)

I personally think it was rushed because the game was already long enough, and the epilogues were all written in short archive files instead of receiving their own scenes. I think it'd require more of a budget and there was only so much that he could do with the time he had been given for a game that doesn't even seem to matter to the higher ups. Sadly, I don't think we'll get another Zero Escape game. I don't see how this game is not going to get the same (or less) sales as VLR since this is just a cult series. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, or that he at least makes another series that is similar to it, maybe through Kickstarter help.

As for Mira going back in the past to stop herself from killing Eric's mother, I don't see how it is so bad. I disagree with Delta that the snail was necessary for everything bad about the Zero Escape series to happen ("it's because of a solitary snail that six billion people will die"). Even if Eric lived a perfectly normal life, Sean was a real boy, Akane's parents were alive and the Nonary Game never took place, it wouldn't bring an end to the series, as Free the Soul still exists and conducted experiments on kids with ESPer abilities (Snake and Clover, if we discount Akane). Radical 6's development is also independent on the events of any Zero Escape game. If anything, the timeline that follows what Mira wanted to do on the past can only lead to VLR (because Free the Soul and Delta exist independently, because of the unstable time loop), which will lead to ZTD, which will lead to where it originally stopped.

And it'd be just another timeline anyway, so it wouldn't have a significant effect on all the other timelines. It amounts to little in practice, but it serves as a redemption act... that kind of came from nowhere, tbh. When did she suddenly stop being a sociopath and started caring? You can't just snap from a mental condition at random, and for all we saw she couldn't care less about any of the players.

I also wanted to see more interactions with Delta and his family, and an expanded scene on the timeline where he spares Diana. As for why he spared his mother, maybe we'd get a pseudocientific explanation based on Freud's theories but Uchikoshi cut it.

Also, it seems 999 is going to be ported to other platforms as well/receive a remaster, but I couldn't check the link and verify if that is true. Could anyone check it?

Edited July 3, 2016 by Rapier

[Kon]

Finally got the game and I've been binging on it when I can. So far I've done all of C Team's Fragments so far, and now I'm working on Q Team before heading on to do D Team. If I wew going purely by character preferences, I'd be going D Team, then C, then Q, because Sigma and Phi are DA BEST and Mira and Eric can fuck off, but I figure putting off Q Team forever won't get me anywhere. Plus I like Q and feel pretty bad for him since he has those two assholes to deal with.

Oh, and in the Study Room choice, I was trying to put in random guesses to see what kind of answers I got, and well...

I haven't gotten to anything regarding Delta, but I knew that they were in the game after accidentally reading a spoiler, so I decided to put in his name and, uh, something actually happened??? I was laughing so hard 'cause that just came out of nowhere for me, especially since when I put their name in for the Junpei choice, they only got a special message "Don't know their whereabouts" or something like that.

But, uh, Perceptive End get?

Edited July 3, 2016 by Kon

[Luce]

I personally think it was rushed because the game was already long enough, and the epilogues were all written in short archive files instead of receiving their own scenes. I think it'd require more of a budget and there was only so much that he could do with the time he had been given for a game that doesn't even seem to matter to the higher ups. Sadly, I don't think we'll get another Zero Escape game. I don't see how this game is not going to get the same (or less) sales as VLR since this is just a cult series. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, or that he at least makes another series that is similar to it, maybe through Kickstarter help.

As for Mira going back in the past to stop herself from killing Eric's mother, I don't see how it is so bad. I disagree with Delta that the snail was necessary for everything bad about the Zero Escape series to happen ("it's because of a solitary snail that six billion people will die"). Even if Eric lived a perfectly normal life, Sean was a real boy, Akane's parents were alive and the Nonary Game never took place, it wouldn't bring an end to the series, as Free the Soul still exists and conducted experiments on kids with ESPer abilities (Snake and Clover, if we discount Akane). Radical 6's development is also independent on the events of any Zero Escape game. If anything, the timeline that follows what Mira wanted to do on the past can only lead to VLR (because Free the Soul and Delta exist independently, because of the unstable time loop), which will lead to ZTD, which will lead to where it originally stopped.

And it'd be just another timeline anyway, so it wouldn't have a significant effect on all the other timelines. It amounts to little in practice, but it serves as a redemption act... that kind of came from nowhere, tbh. When did she suddenly stop being a sociopath and started caring? You can't just snap from a mental condition at random, and for all we saw she couldn't care less about any of the players.

I also wanted to see more interactions with Delta and his family, and an expanded scene on the timeline where he spares Diana. As for why he spared his mother, maybe we'd get a pseudocientific explanation based on Freud's theories but Uchikoshi cut it.

Also, it seems 999 is going to be ported to other platforms as well/receive a remaster, but I couldn't check the link and verify if that is true. Could anyone check it?

I still hope he will give us answers as soon as possible, because I'm really curious about many many things;;

But if Akane was never kidnapped by Hongou and lived a normal life, her ESPer abilities never awakened and she would have never founded Crash Keys with her brother. She wouldn't have been able to see the future either, which means she wouldn't have contacted Sigma and they wouldn't have worked on the Nonary Game on the moon together, which means he wouldn't have jumped back in time and played the Decision Game. And if Sigma didn't play the Decision Game, Delta would have never been born, so wouldn't Free the Soul. And if they don't exist, nobody will create Radical-6 and nothing will stop the terrorist from destroying humanity. (Now that I think about it, how was Akane's father convicted for Eric's mom's murder anyway? Eric lives in Nebraska and I always assumed the Kurashikis live in Japan...)

The fact that it doesn't affect other timelines is exactly why it's pointless: they're allowing for a total different timeline to exist by saving Mira from becoming a serial killer, but the Mira they know will still be a serial killer no matter what and they're just dooming that timeline for no real reason. It's quite a nice idea though, I mean, Eric would save his mother and Mira would maybe become a normal person, and while it is pointless in the long run it would still be a nice achievement for them. I don't get how Mira changed so easily either; maybe it was because of the final SHIFT? I'm happy she decided to go to jail though.

I really wonder how that timeline continues. I don't really know how Diana would react to all that. I just feel really bad for Sigma; maybe Delta killed him because he wanted to stop his plans or something?

It is! Uchikoshi's announcement I mentioned was actually about this, it's 999 being ported to Steam and it's gonna be dubbed! <3

[Rapier]

Finally got the game and I've been binging on it when I can. So far I've done all of C Team's Fragments so far, and now I'm working on Q Team before heading on to do D Team. If I wew going purely by character preferences, I'd be going D Team, then C, then Q, because Sigma and Phi are DA BEST and Mira and Eric can fuck off, but I figure putting off Q Team forever won't get me anywhere. Plus I like Q and feel pretty bad for him since he has those two assholes to deal with.

Oh, and in the Study Room choice, I was trying to put in random guesses to see what kind of answers I got, and well...

I haven't gotten to anything regarding Delta, but I knew that they were in the game after accidentally reading a spoiler, so I decided to put in his name and, uh, something actually happened??? I was laughing so hard 'cause that just came out of nowhere for me, especially since when I put their name in for the Junpei choice, they only got a special message "Don't know their whereabouts" or something like that.

But, uh, Perceptive End get?

I also think Eric and Mira can fuck off, they never quite grew as characters to me. Eric has a nice background story, but his submission and idiocy really get on my nerves and he never grows a spine. Mira is just crazy.

[spoiler=Mira, endgame spoilers]

She's the worst "Ace archetype" that I've seen in the series. Dio, although he is prone to idiotic mistakes because of his arrogance, still manages to be competent at times, has a purpose on the story and does his job well. Mira is just sociopathic and has no reason at all for doing what she does in Zero Escape, except because she is a sociopath... Which is ok, I guess, but since she's so one dimensional about it and that's all we have about her, it doesn't make her character better (see: Hannibal Lecter as a "likable" sociopathic character).

[spoiler=Zero]

Delta claims that he put her there because he wanted retribution, and I guess that makes sense since he probably was the elderly person who knew Sean, but it makes no sense to give her free pass to commit murders and do all the crap that she did in the Bad Ends. If her intents were like Akane's intents toward Ace, it simply makes no sense for Delta to help her so much. And her redeeming arc comes from nowhere.

There literally are endings where she decides to kill people because "why not", and who knows why she didn't kill her teammates before if they were unconscious while she was the only one unaffected by the drugs?

Also, waiting to see how the 999 port goes. If the STEAM version gets a remaster, I might buy it (since I don't remember 999's story very well, and iirc it had the best cast of characters).

Edited July 3, 2016 by Rapier

[Thane]

I think I figured out why a few twists bothered me so much in this game.

[spoiler=End game stuff] They're not surprises for the characters, or they don't change how we understand the story or the game as a whole like in previous installments.

Case in point: why don't we see Delta at all for the majority of the game? He's only briefly hinted at and there are some shadows every once in a while indicating his presence, but why don't we get to SEE him? It's all set up as a plot twist to surprise the PLAYER and not the cast; seeing as his presence is not a surprise for the characters, it lessens the impact.

Same with him being Sigma and Diana's child and Phi's brother; what does that affect? Sure, he made that game so he would be born, but because of the utter lack of emotional connection between any of the involved parties, they might as well have had no ties at all - I'm not saying they should all hug it out or whatever, but why even make him their child in the first place if it's almost irrelevant?

Couple this with me simply not thinking his motives are solid in the slightest, and the dreaded Brother turns out to be an old man with a shotgun, and I simply feel like Delta is the main issue with the game.

I should point out that I really liked the game as a whole and absolutely loved certain scenes and endings - Diana and Sigma being locked in together was great; it showed something far scarier than all the gore: isolation and its effect on people. Sweet, gentle Diana slowly going insane, drinking and telling Sigma to first have sex with her and then kill her was some genuinely scary stuff, and I loved how they portrayed it.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who disliked Mira and Eric. I was afraid I wouldn't even before the game came out; I obviously wanted to be surprised, but they never grew on me at all, and their inclusion in the game seems to pretty much boil down to "eh, why not?". The last part applies to Carlos as well, but at least he has a few good moments and lines - when he said "THE FUCK?!" at Junpei's plan, I laughed out loud for almost half a minute straight. Great delivery.

Minor question while I'm on a roll, but was I the only one surprised by how Sigma sounded...well, not old? He didn't sound anything like his recording in Virtue's Last Reward, but was acting rather like a young Sigma would, brash and headstrong.

I get the feeling that the game should've had a bit more development time; so many things seem...off in retrospect, even if it's a great product considering the hell it went through to even get made.

[Original Alear]

Minor question while I'm on a roll, but was I the only one surprised by how Sigma sounded...well, not old? He didn't sound anything like his recording in Virtue's Last Reward, but was acting rather like a young Sigma would, brash and headstrong.

It's all the hormones of his body affecting him ;)

I also dislike Mira and Eric so far. Somehow I find myself feeling Eric is even more of a douchecanoe than Mira, and I say that despite being aware that Mira

Spends her spare time carving out people's hearts.

Edited July 4, 2016 by PP UP

[Irony]

I actually like Eric. I know that I'm probably the only one who does, but I find him such an interesting character. Idk, I like him, but he's not my favourite new character (that goes to either Carlos (who is totally shaped like a friend) or Diana.)

[Rapier]

The worst part about Mira is that somehow the game's narrative wants me to be surprised...

when it reveals she's the heart ripper, a serial killer and a sociopath.

I mean, she looks as friendly as this

who'd guess such a twist

also my problem with Eric is that he never develops as a character, and he wasn't such a likable person anyway.

Another thing about endgame that Thane's post made me think

[spoiler=endgame]

Yes, Delta being always here was kind of a cheap move. I also wonder what the cast was thinking. "Hey, we're teaming up with this old man who they say can't speak, hear or see. Of course there is nothing suspicious here". If the player could see him, he'd be the first suspect of being Zero. He's just too suspect for anyone to just dismiss him or believe what they were told about him.

[Sylphid]

Finally got this game today, I've put few hours into it and am loving every bit of it.

Well, almost every bit, but my dislikes about it are small enough that the experience is overall a great one.

Main thing that bothers me right now is how convoluted and fragmented the story feels with three groups, fragments and the memory loss thing. Just having the flowchart and a more linear story with multiple paths would have made it easier to follow.

Now, I get this is entirely intentional and part of what makes the experience, I'm just not a fan of how it's done. Not my cup of tea and so on. Plus I'm bothered by doing stories randomly and opening parts of the flowchart while there are empty segment between what I just did and what I've done before.

I expect I'll get used to it eventually though.

(Also artstyle/CGI but that's subjective. I've honestly found nothing in the game as creepy as some of the characters' faces and how the dog walks <spoiler>including the squicky in hindsight pantry puzzle</spoiler>)

Characters are kind of hit and miss for me. I've mostly played team C and a bit of team D, but only one I genuinely like this far is Akane. I do like Phi, Sigma and Junpei as well, but that's mostly due to previous games, not this one. Carlos and Diana are decent enough but team Q just kind of is there... Of course, I've played with them very little so I don't have much to go on anyways.

As for the puzzles, they've been pretty fun. Rec room I had to use a guide for because I got confused with all the things in it, but otherwise I've been able to do things on my own. I expect things will get harder towards the end though.

Incidentally, I found the first decision with the coin incredibly funny. I expected it was rigged to be always wrong but nope, got to an ending in my first minutes of playing the game lol. "Sure, I guess I'm done with the game now, time to get back to Fates"

The news about a possible 999 port are excellent, I'll be finally able to play that game too.

[Original Alear]

So maybe my biggest issue with this game is that (ending spoilers)

I don't understand how it's possible for Brother to be responsible for his own birth. It's a repeat of the problem in 999, where it's not clear to me how Akane can orchestrate the nonary game in order to save herself without having been saved already.

Also this isn't exactly an issue, but I'm not really clear on why Zero killed Gab. The best I can come up with is that he was trying to keep Sean from being concerned about Gab prior to shifting? I googled for a few results. One person came up with an idea that gab is capable of shifting and that he was killed to motivate his consiousness shifting to another reality, where delta could read it. That doesn't seem very likely, since it doesn't seem like there'd be any control over where he went, and you'd expect at least a small hint that gab would be capable of such a thing. But I'm still mentioning it because I thought it was an interesting idea.

I'm also not sure why gab was chained up in one of the Q endings.

[Kon]

So maybe my biggest issue with this game is that (ending spoilers)

I don't understand how it's possible for Brother to be responsible for his own birth. It's a repeat of the problem in 999, where it's not clear to me how Akane can orchestrate the nonary game in order to save herself without having been saved already.

Also this isn't exactly an issue, but I'm not really clear on why Zero killed Gab. The best I can come up with is that he was trying to keep Sean from being concerned about Gab prior to shifting? I googled for a few results. One person came up with an idea that gab is capable of shifting and that he was killed to motivate his consiousness shifting to another reality, where delta could read it. That doesn't seem very likely, since it doesn't seem like there'd be any control over where he went, and you'd expect at least a small hint that gab would be capable of such a thing. But I'm still mentioning it because I thought it was an interesting idea.

I'm also not sure why gab was chained up in one of the Q endings.

Someone offered an explanation on TV Tropes that makes sense, at least to me

The nature of Delta's existence and Akane's in 999 aren't the same. Delta's quantum state would only resolve in his nonexistence if the events of Zero Time Dilemma could NOT come to pass, due to the nature of the Transporter copying information. Akane, however, is in a true quantum state; Junpei/Akane state that their form of espering is a lesser form of SHIFTing. It most likely doesn't cross the many worlds interpretation, meaning that any world in which Junpei does not save Akane is a world in which Akane's past quantum-collapses into not having learned the solution, leading to her death. Essentially, Delta only needs to have potentially existed, while Akane is collapsed by the fact she cannot exist.

This could be explained as there must be a timeline where the loop is closed, but it need not be the one you perceive. This also requires that there isn't a timeline for every possible action - because if there was, every loop would be automatically closed somewhere - someone has to make effort to make a timeline exist. That explains both actions above, but causes a problem if Brother didn't really want to release Radical-6, but did so to attract the attention of shifters to the terrorist. By releasing Radical-6 he has created that timeline, and although shifters can move in and out of it, they can't destroy it - anything they do, there will be a timeline where it failed. Based on this theory, Brother didn't need to create that timeline and there was no reason for him to do so.

As far as the Gab situation is concerned, all I can think of is keeping Sean from being compelled to stay with him rather than shift with the others. As for why he was chained up, I really have no clue. I'll have to take a look at that path again, because I didn't get it either.

[TildeHat]

So maybe my biggest issue with this game is that (ending spoilers)

I don't understand how it's possible for Brother to be responsible for his own birth. It's a repeat of the problem in 999, where it's not clear to me how Akane can orchestrate the nonary game in order to save herself without having been saved already.

Also this isn't exactly an issue, but I'm not really clear on why Zero killed Gab. The best I can come up with is that he was trying to keep Sean from being concerned about Gab prior to shifting? I googled for a few results. One person came up with an idea that gab is capable of shifting and that he was killed to motivate his consiousness shifting to another reality, where delta could read it. That doesn't seem very likely, since it doesn't seem like there'd be any control over where he went, and you'd expect at least a small hint that gab would be capable of such a thing. But I'm still mentioning it because I thought it was an interesting idea.

I'm also not sure why gab was chained up in one of the Q endings.

Gab was chained up to Delta's wheelchair and Delta was the one who was chained up instead. If you watch the ending again, you can see the shadow of Delta's wheelchair. Gab is probably only there to mess with the player.

[Thane]

[spoiler=endgame]

Yes, Delta being always here was kind of a cheap move. I also wonder what the cast was thinking. "Hey, we're teaming up with this old man who they say can't speak, hear or see. Of course there is nothing suspicious here". If the player could see him, he'd be the first suspect of being Zero. He's just too suspect for anyone to just dismiss him or believe what they were told about him.

When Eric went berserk he never once pointed the gun at him or questioned him, even though he said everyone else was suspicious despite being able to show some proof of their claims. No one questioning Q or even trying to communicate with him makes no sense.

Then there's the whole walking up the stairs in the study with Q-team. Speaking of that room, no one is surprised when he speaks when he's shot in the Perceptive End.

It's just really inconsistent and serves as a plot twist designed to surprise the player and not the characters, and while I'm sure that can work, this is not one of those times.

Also:

Edited July 9, 2016 by Thane

[Sylphid]

So I finally got forward after being stuck for couple days, and it feels I'm getting close to the end since all kinds of weird stuff is starting to happen.

But I must say, some of these route unlocks don't make sense to me. For instance

I unlocked nuclear core room / AB game by getting the bad end where Diana shoots Sigma. Maybe I'm just salty because I got stuck on a randomized bad end for days but it really didn't make sense to me.

This unlocked bunch of shift routes for Carlos and a route for team Q which is direct continuation from those which makes sense. But then that somehow gets me an unrelated one where Sigma and Diana are stuck in the shelter (didn't watch it yet so maybe there's something later).

My point here being that sthe two instances of unlocking routes I mentioned here seem to have no relation to the stuff that actually unlocks them, though this could be unfortunate result of "do everything to advance" and fragmented story.

Anyways, having played through more of the game, I've gotten used to the structure with teams and story fragments (and the art style to an extent, though I still think some of the faces and anatomy are the creepiest thing in the game), even if I still find it kind of messy. Except for some little things that irk me, I'm loving the game. The puzzles have been fun and challenging but not too difficult and the story and cast enjoyable for the most part. Q team is kind of weird case for me since I really enjoy the ideas they were going for but something about the execution feels lacking.

[Retyl]

.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Retyl

[Sylphid]

So I finished the game couple days ago (soon after I made my last post, actually), but needed those couple days to collect my thoughts. Final impressions in spoiler tags, ending spoilers obviously.

So the elephant in the room is of course that Zero/Delta/real Q revelation. In short that felt really cheap and I think Thane hit the mark as to why; none of the cast members are shocked the guy exists. Sure they are all "omg how could the harmless, blind, deaf, mute, wheelchair-bound creepy old guy be Zero", but this just makes them look retrospectively really stupid. You would think when out of nine people you get 6 shifters, a robot, a serial killer and a just regular guy with few screws loose, there's reason to suspect that maybe the harmless old guy isn't actually that harmless. Plus Zero seemed a bit too ready to reveal himself in that one timeline but eh.

Praise where praise is due though, the foreshadowing to that is actually really clever and the idea that the player's been watching the game as Zero himself (via those timeline crossing glasses) is pretty cool if rather convenient.

There are couple puzzling things that bother me:

- The thing about Mira being some kind of unwitting accomplish to Zero's plan is really weird. Like, it's mentioned by him once, at the same time as he does a lot of other shocking expositions, and you would expect it leads to something... Except it doesn't. She's literally given some grand but underutilized wildcard role to explain one bad end and few deaths (most of which happen in said bad end)

- How exactly does Delta know when/where he was born? Who did he mindhack to learn this? No one except Sigma and Diana of that timeline knew about it until Sigma and Diana did shifting (or something) during the game. As far as I'm concerned, this is the only reason why Zero making sure he'll be / have been born doesn't work (rest of the plan is actually doable simply because of how the timelines in the series function.).

The actual end also felt pretty unsatisfactory with nothing having actually happened (in that timeline), no one getting their any retribution for the stuff they did (ok Mira kind of but not really) and Zero being all smug about everything. Though thinking about Delta as a nutty cheerleader is pretty fun.

Rest of the good and bad points haven't really changed since the start for me. I wasn't a fan of the fragmented narrative but got used to it and sometimes the computer models are kind of weird (characters raising their hands results in some of the creepiest moments in the game, seriously).

Puzzle rooms were really fun and the cutscenes were usually great, my favorite being Diana's sanity slipping away in that one ending. Cast was enjoyable enough, though for Mira and Eric this was more because of their backstory than what they actually do.

Speaking of Mira, I found the implication that she caused large part of the cast's lives to go bad pretty interesting.

Anyways, great game. Can't wait for steam port of 999, when that happens I'll have played all games in the series.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Sylphid

[Thane]

So I finished the game couple days ago (soon after I made my last post, actually), but needed those couple days to collect my thoughts. Final impressions in spoiler tags, ending spoilers obviously.

So the elephant in the room is of course that Zero/Delta/real Q revelation. In short that felt really cheap and I think Thane hit the mark as to why; none of the cast members are shocked the guy exists. Sure they are all "omg how could the harmless, blind, deaf, mute, wheelchair-bound creepy old guy be Zero", but this just makes them look retrospectively really stupid. You would think when out of nine people you get 6 shifters, a robot, a serial killer and a just regular guy with few screws loose, there's reason to suspect that maybe the harmless old guy isn't actually that harmless. Plus Zero seemed a bit too ready to reveal himself in that one timeline but eh.

Praise where praise is due though, the foreshadowing to that is actually really clever and the idea that the player's been watching the game as Zero himself (via those timeline crossing glasses) is pretty cool if rather convenient.

There are couple puzzling things that bother me:

- The thing about Mira being some kind of unwitting accomplish to Zero's plan is really weird. Like, it's mentioned by him once, at the same time as he does a lot of other shocking expositions, and you would expect it leads to something... Except it doesn't. She's literally given some grand but underutilized wildcard role to explain one bad end and few deaths (most of which happen in said bad end)

- How exactly does Delta know when/where he was born? Who did he mindhack to learn this? No one except Sigma and Diana of that timeline knew about it until Sigma and Diana did shifting (or something) during the game. As far as I'm concerned, this is the only reason why Zero making sure he'll be / have been born doesn't work (rest of the plan is actually doable simply because of how the timelines in the series function.).

The actual end also felt pretty unsatisfactory with nothing having actually happened (in that timeline), no one getting their any retribution for the stuff they did (ok Mira kind of but not really) and Zero being all smug about everything. Though thinking about Delta as a nutty cheerleader is pretty fun.

Rest of the good and bad points haven't really changed since the start for me. I wasn't a fan of the fragmented narrative but got used to it and sometimes the computer models are kind of weird (characters raising their hands results in some of the creepiest moments in the game, seriously).

Puzzle rooms were really fun and the cutscenes were usually great, my favorite being Diana's sanity slipping away in that one ending. Cast was enjoyable enough, though for Mira and Eric this was more because of their backstory than what they actually do.

Speaking of Mira, I found the implication that she caused large part of the cast's lives to go bad pretty interesting.

Anyways, great game. Can't wait for steam port of 999, when that happens I'll have played all games in the series.

Mira and Eric are horribly underdeveloped, and their roles are hardly even explained. It's also noteworthy that Mira gets away, no strings attached, and unless the power of friendship somehow unlocked her ability to feel emotions properly, she's still a psychopath. Far too much is dismissed by a simple wave of the hand, like the alien technology which even for this series is a bit out there; it requires a completely different suspension of disbelief than SHIFTing due to the lack of backstory, foreshadowing and explanation.

I'm glad you also like Diana and Sigma's ending - I found that to be a highlight of the game. It's depressing and honestly far scarier than any of the gore in the game. I think it was rather well executed too.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Thane