Ema Skye Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 You just said Ryu can't be the best because not enough people play him. So who do you think is the best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 Rosalina is who I think is the best in the current meta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 As much as that makes me happy since she's one of my mains, I don't see how she could be number 1 considering Bayonetta is like her worst matchup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Explain to me how, considering Luma's interference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Rosa is absolute combo fodder for Bayo due to her physics. Luma honestly is irrelevant from my experience because it can't get Bayo off of Rosa. Yes, Luma helps keep Bayo out. Remember that Witch Time works on Luma though. Bayo's entire playstyle revolves around breaking walls and mercilessly comboing once the wall is broken. Rosalina's playstyle is about maintaining the wall and keeping them out, because she has nothing to take them back outside the wall. idk, it seems pretty obvious to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Rosalina loses to ZSS, I'm pretty sure. EDIT And because she's so light, probably to Sheik as well. Edited March 23, 2016 by Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Rosalina loses to ZSS, I'm pretty sure. EDIT And because she's so light, probably to Sheik as well. ZSS gets hit by Luma for grabs and she can't get rid of Luma all that effectively, especially with her reduced knockback. I don't see Sheik doing well at all anymore vs her either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 i'm no zss player but I imagine nair and even something like sideb would get rid of luma pretty easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 Maybe I just am thinking these nerfs were so significant that Luma is way worse than I remembered it being @Doofina, doesn't Bayo still have to fish with her side b even vs Rosalina? Like I imagine if Luma was in her way she'd just get hit by Rosalina's uair from a short hop, because they usually come in from the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 27, 2016 Author Share Posted March 27, 2016 Bump, and now I'm more cooled off, here you go with ZeRo's personal thoughts on Bayonetta and Sheik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I find his view on Bayonetta intriguing and enlightening. For now at least, people should try to find ways to deliberately counter Bayonetta before ever seriously talking about banning her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I think we'll be getting at least one more patch. Reasoning is that the Ryu, Roy and Famicom ROB amiibo don't work in Version 1.1.4 (the game says they are unsupported) but 1.1.5 added the flags to let them be used. Presumably the next patch will add flags for Cloud, Corrin and Bayonetta amiibo. Though there isn't really a way of knowing if the flags are there already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 If we're indeed getting an NX port, I'd suspect a patch then as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Wow, Sheik and ZSS nerfs, FINALLY. I felt that Bayonetta needed nerfed too, so that's good. And Zelda getting buffs? Like legit buffs? Where is the balance team and what did these imposters do with them? lol Also nice to see my characters untouched (well, other than Corrin who I have to admit needed a Counter nerf). Though still I wish Luigi would get a small buff after he got knocked down to nearly mid tier. And that Mii Swordfighter gets buffed someday too. But seeing as Zelda finally got what she's been waiting so long for, there's still hope... Edited March 29, 2016 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I'd rather Bayonetta be banned than see her nerfed. I'd hate seeing one of my favorites ruined just because competitive players whined about it. I thought the competitive scene wasn't supposed to influence casuals, but this recent patch obviously showed that tournaments are ruining this game's balance. Cloud didn't deserve those nerfs and Sheik's abilities never bothered me. Seriously contemplating just not downloading the patch so I can have super great Cloud again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) I'd rather Bayonetta be banned than see her nerfed. I'd hate seeing one of my favorites ruined just because competitive players whined about it. I thought the competitive scene wasn't supposed to influence casuals, but this recent patch obviously showed that tournaments are ruining this game's balance. Cloud didn't deserve those nerfs and Sheik's abilities never bothered me. Seriously contemplating just not downloading the patch so I can have super great Cloud again. Clouds nerf's were a slap on the freaking wrist; he kills maybe 3% later overall, with limit break taking half a second longer to charge. The only thing the nerfs do is work against Finishing Touch spam. Also, wow. Just... wow. You do know patches are based off of For Glory results, right? And even then, let's take a step back: Bayonetta has carried players since she launched. Thanks to her stupidly good combo game and Witch Time, the only way to feasibly beat a decent Bayonetta is to play slow and campy; one slip-up means she can fire out Witch Time and potentially just KO you from there. But sure, she's balanced. She has four 0-death combos (at least one of which is fairly utilitarian), but she's balanced. Seriously, Bayonetta is the best in the game by a long shot. Look, it's nice having an opinion. It's not nice trumpeting your opinion as objective fact. I have to question whether or not you're deliberately trying to start a flame war or something, considering the people who actively post here are predominantly competitive/semi-competitive Smash players. Edited March 29, 2016 by The DanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) I'd rather Bayonetta be banned than see her nerfed. I'd hate seeing one of my favorites ruined just because competitive players whined about it. I thought the competitive scene wasn't supposed to influence casuals, but this recent patch obviously showed that tournaments are ruining this game's balance. Cloud didn't deserve those nerfs and Sheik's abilities never bothered me. Seriously contemplating just not downloading the patch so I can have super great Cloud again. Sakurai balances the game for both casual and competitive play, its a rough balancing act, and its the reason why some people like Shulk and Bowser while can be good in skilled hands, shine more in the FFA scenario. Clouds nerf's were a slap on the freaking wrist; he kills maybe 3% later overall, with limit break taking half a second longer to charge. The only thing the nerfs do is work against Finishing Touch spam. Also, wow. Just... wow. You do know patches are based off of For Glory results, right? And even then, let's take a step back: Bayonetta has carried players since she launched. Thanks to her stupidly good combo game and Witch Time, the only way to feasibly beat a decent Bayonetta is to play slow and campy; one slip-up means she can fire out Witch Time and potentially just KO you from there. But sure, she's balanced. She has four 0-death combos (at least one of which is fairly utilitarian), but she's balanced. Seriously, Bayonetta is the best in the game by a long shot. Look, it's nice having an opinion. It's not nice trumpeting your opinion as objective fact. I have to question whether or not you're deliberately trying to start a flame war or something, considering the people who actively post here are predominantly competitive/semi-competitive Smash players. Cloud at least has a few flaws, despite being really solid too. His recovery for one Edited March 29, 2016 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 If any character should be better, it's Shulk. I feel that even when my family and I play Smash, Shulk's still not amazing. Even if Bayonetta's great, I can't pull off any of her large combo strings. Nerfing stuff like Heel Slide only serves to hurt someone who likes Bayonetta and wants to play her. I'm sure Marth and Dedede mains probably would feel the same considering the nerfs they got from Brawl to 4. Marth in the base game was almost unrecognizable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) If any character should be better, it's Shulk. I feel that even when my family and I play Smash, Shulk's still not amazing. Even if Bayonetta's great, I can't pull off any of her large combo strings. Nerfing stuff like Heel Slide only serves to hurt someone who likes Bayonetta and wants to play her. I'm sure Marth and Dedede mains probably would feel the same considering the nerfs they got from Brawl to 4. Marth in the base game was almost unrecognizable. The heel slide nerf wasn't even bad :/ Also you're right Dedede and Marth players (such as myself were annoyed), some people were happy though that Marth finally wasn't high/top tier in a smash game lol. Although people don't miss the reason Dedede was super good in brawl in particular however, (Read: Chain grabs to death on the majority of the cast) A game of 58 is impossible to fully properly balance, its amazing we've gotten as much balance as we have to be honest, the power gaps aren't nearly as big as say Brawl. Edited March 29, 2016 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Cloud at least has a few flaws, despite being really solid too. His recovery for one His overall extreme design doesn't quite work out. It's the same reason why, for instance, classes who focus on a couple stats in RPGS are better than jack-of-all-trades, middle-of-the-road type ones. Yeah, Cloud has poor recovery and no combo game, but he doesn't need the later because he hits so hard in the first place, and the former is nowhere near as much of an issue if the player is good enough with the character/saves limit for recovery once they reach medium percentages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Also, wow. Just... wow. You do know patches are based off of For Glory results, right? Well, that's not entirely true. For Glory is a source of info for balance patches I'm sure, but Sakurai has attended tournaments and has taken notes from them. Prior to 1.1.4, Sakurai attended the NicoNico event where Corrin and Bayo footage was first shown, and he commented on how certain players could do things he wasn't even aware of. He specifically mentioned Zero Suit Samus and Metaknight, and, surprise, both got nerfed in the recent patch. I don't know how much does Sakurai consider the tournament scene when it comes to balance patches, but I think it's safe to say he DOES consider it to an extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 His overall extreme design doesn't quite work out. It's the same reason why, for instance, classes who focus on a couple stats in RPGS are better than jack-of-all-trades, middle-of-the-road type ones. Yeah, Cloud has poor recovery and no combo game, but he doesn't need the later because he hits so hard in the first place, and the former is nowhere near as much of an issue if the player is good enough with the character/saves limit for recovery once they reach medium percentages. He has combos, many of his moves link into uair and cross slash, and combos are the reason Finishing Touch was an issue for people to begin with because a sourspoted dair can perfectly link into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 He has combos, many of his moves link into uair and cross slash, and combos are the reason Finishing Touch was an issue for people to begin with because a sourspoted dair can perfectly link into it. Outside of down-tilt -> U-air, I wasn't really aware of Cloud actually having much in the way of combos. I suppose in a sense that makes him even better than I previously thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Outside of down-tilt -> U-air, I wasn't really aware of Cloud actually having much in the way of combos. I suppose in a sense that makes him even better than I previously thought. People will still find things to complain about with Rosalina, Sonic, Mario and such before Cloud though lol. Edited March 30, 2016 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Wait, you can combo into Finishing Touch? That sounds OP and bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.jpg_large.thumb.jpg.f2d3abf71ab721ac00c5f689699cfa50.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.