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Bad/Horrible support conversations!


Michelaar
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I can say happily the supports in Fire emblem Fates are way better than the one in Radiant dawn (God, those were awful), But there are still some very bad support conversations. For me, I really don't like Azama X Sakura. I was going to pair them up until I saw their supports. Azama is just being a total dick and then Sakura marries him. Thats basically what happened. What are your least favorite support conversations?

I don't like Azama x Sakura either, but I was unfortunately forced to, as they were my last two unpaired, and I hadn't gotten even their C support to guage how the support would of been.

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I'm glad to see there's others here who dislike the Soleil and Ophelia supports; I remember when the translations for the supports were coming out last year and there were people on sites like reddit who actually liked it. Soleil's my least favorite character for how much sexual harassment she somehow gets away with.

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The only real support I like from Soleil is with her father because it's actually meaningful. I also despise Nina's because the majority of the time it revolves around her gimmick as a yaoi fangirl which gets annoying. Another one is Jakob and Felicia.

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While I don't think many of us are a fan of just how little time gets devoted to people hooking up and deciding to get married, I must say that there's a very big difference between a character being an asshole throughout three conversations rather than...well, a nice person.

Some people are assholes, or, even if they're not, may behave like assholes in certain circumstances. Supports should not shy away from having such people.

Again, the problem very much lies in the game forcing all these supports to go romantic.

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Some people are assholes, or, even if they're not, may behave like assholes in certain circumstances. Supports should not shy away from having such people.

Again, the problem very much lies in the game forcing all these supports to go romantic.

I agree, which is why - with the current support system - it makes no sense to have someone go out of their way to be an asshole and end up getting married. It's not like I'm advocating everyone holding hands and playing with kittens.

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I agree, which is why - with the current support system - it makes no sense to have someone go out of their way to be an asshole and end up getting married. It's not like I'm advocating everyone holding hands and playing with kittens.

True, but it's not like we were meant to see Shinon or Soren as good people. My problem is that (from my point of view at least) we're expected to see Azama and Jakob as funny or likable characters despite the 'humour' boils down to acting like a jackass to everyone around them for no reason, with very few exceptions.

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While I don't think many of us are a fan of just how little time gets devoted to people hooking up and deciding to get married, I must say that there's a very big difference between a character being an asshole throughout three conversations rather than...well, a nice person.

Pretty much what I was going for. There's a big difference between those supports and the supports where characters interact, discuss things related to their personalities, and actually seem to like each other/enjoy interacting with each other/not treat each other like crap. I can excuse the short time between hooking up and marriage if the characters generally get along, but Jakob and Azama break that willing suspension of disbelief completely because of how assholish and insulting they are to almost everyone.

Azama and Jakob are the worst offenders imo of the 1st Gen side.

I agree. I'm also inclined to say that Soleil is the absolute worst offender from 2nd Gen.

True, but it's not like we were meant to see Shinon or Soren as good people. My problem is that (from my point of view at least) we're expected to see Azama and Jakob as funny or likable characters despite the 'humour' boils down to acting like a jackass to everyone around them for no reason, with very few exceptions.

One of the few differences I see between Soren and Jakob personality-wise is that Jakob isn't also racist on top of being a jackass (and honestly I think that's only because he can't support Kaden or Keaton). They're both snarky assholes, have tragic backstories, are good-looking, are devoted to one person specifically, etc.

One I blocked out before someone else brought it up: Silas/Orochi. Silas being a judgemental ass seems to be a running theme among some of his Birthright romantic supports.

Edited by AzureSen
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For the longest time I remember hearing nothing but people talking about Soleil/Ophelia and other supports of hers with females like they were ten times better than any she had with males. I was never interested enough to check, but it seems I should've known better; however much Treehouse tried to salvage her more controversial supports (and even then they're only 'meh' level now, nowhere near great), it doesn't seem to be able to make up for how terrible she is with the other girls and her own mother. Not to mention the fact that they gutted her male supports for no reason; I'm willing to bet none of them could possibly be as bad as that Ophelia one (and I can't believe people would ship that over some of her better supports, like Kiragi...or what used to be her S rank with Kiragi...). I find it sad that after all that whining others did over the Japanese Soleil controversy, I actually miss some of her better written Japanese supports over what we were ultimately given; I appreciate what they tried to do with Corrin, but I could care less about that one and wish they'd left it alone if it meant her other supports wouldn't have been sacrificed. I guess she was never going to be anything more than a disappointment no matter what. Depressing, since I liked her character design from day 1, only to be a badly done trope... :<

I'm also not a fan of most of Jakob's, but even though he's still mean to Felicia, I can appreciate Jakob/Felicia a little more than the others since there's a bit of familiarity between them that he lacks with other women, which makes me think that theirs is more realistic in that he'd be condescending but very willing to help her out with her maid skills. To the point that he considers any failure of hers a failure of his, and he won't give up on her till she achieves her dream of being a better maid. Doesn't excuse him still being a general jerk, but I found it to be more in character than his supports with most of the other women, who he lacks any familiarity reason to be so condescending to on the outset. That, and his non-jerkass supports were with people I preferred with others, so its the next best thing for me I guess.

And while I don't hate them perse, I do find Xander/Charlotte and Takumi/Oboro to be very overrated and overdone in general.

I'll probably have more when I find more...

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Yeah, I know. I just don't really see a solution aside from doing away with the current everyone-marries-everyone paradigm, so that tends to be where I'm going to direct my ire.

Well, on that we can agree. Considering the lukewarm reception towards the children this time around though, I have high hopes that there won't be a tacked on second generation next game, which would mean there'd be no reason to allow everyone to hook up with each other. All that extra time could be devoted to writing longer supports of better quality.

At least, that's what I hope.

True, but it's not like we were meant to see Shinon or Soren as good people. My problem is that (from my point of view at least) we're expected to see Azama and Jakob as funny or likable characters despite the 'humour' boils down to acting like a jackass to everyone around them for no reason, with very few exceptions.

My memory is a bit fuzzy, but isn't there a big difference between Soren and Shinon? Soren grows up a bit and opens up while Shinon remains an asshole and never really gets called out on it - hell he even joins the bad guys. Of course, I may be misremembering things, it has been a few years now.

Anyway, I agree with you. They come across as unsympathetic. Again, I wouldn't mind having a few characters like that - Knights of the Old Republic one and two have a lot of party members which are at each other's throats. The difference there is that you don't pair them up, and their differences aren't played for laughs. I really don't understand how Jakob can be as popular as he is, but to each their own.

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psa: jakob is not a dick to mozu, please do this support and do not get any of jakob's other supports if you want to minimize dickishness among your characters getting married

camilla/keaton is really bad

it's basically

"look at these bones!"

"ok"

"i wanna go stare at bones again!"

"okay now go away kid"

"i can't find them!"

"do you need help?"

"*tsundere wolf man*"

"ok"

the s support isn't terrible, but it just feels like a waste of time reading it

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My memory is a bit fuzzy, but isn't there a big difference between Soren and Shinon? Soren grows up a bit and opens up while Shinon remains an asshole and never really gets called out on it - hell he even joins the bad guys. Of course, I may be misremembering things, it has been a few years now.

Anyway, I agree with you. They come across as unsympathetic. Again, I wouldn't mind having a few characters like that - Knights of the Old Republic one and two have a lot of party members which are at each other's throats. The difference there is that you don't pair them up, and their differences aren't played for laughs. I really don't understand how Jakob can be as popular as he is, but to each their own.

Oh no, Soren is much better than Shinon. My point is that I don't recall us ever being expected to see them as good or even decent people, while Jakob can get away with acting like an arse because he's nice to Corrin (his boss), Azura (his boss' best friend and heavily implied love interest) and the Royal Siblings (his boss' family), while Azama doesn't even act nice to anyone, but is apparently still okay because his dickishness is played for laughs. I'd be fine if they actually got called out on it a bit more and the humour was downplayed, but apparently being a douche to everyone around you is funny.

Edited by Phillius
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psa: jakob is not a dick to mozu, please do this support and do not get any of jakob's other supports if you want to minimize dickishness among your characters getting married

camilla/keaton is really bad

it's basically

"look at these bones!"

"ok"

"i wanna go stare at bones again!"

"okay now go away kid"

"i can't find them!"

"do you need help?"

"*tsundere wolf man*"

"ok"

the s support isn't terrible, but it just feels like a waste of time reading it

Jakob/Mozu and Jakob/Azura are indeed very nice.

Camilla/Keaton is, sadly, not as great as I'd hoped, but there are worse imo. And at least the S Support opened on these memorable lines:

Keaton: I think you need a strong man.

Camilla: ...You have ten seconds from the end of this sentence to reconsider that remark.

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psa: jakob is not a dick to mozu, please do this support and do not get any of jakob's other supports if you want to minimize dickishness among your characters getting married

camilla/keaton is really bad

it's basically

"look at these bones!"

"ok"

"i wanna go stare at bones again!"

"okay now go away kid"

"i can't find them!"

"do you need help?"

"*tsundere wolf man*"

"ok"

the s support isn't terrible, but it just feels like a waste of time reading it

I'm pretty much the exact opposite when it comes to Camilla/Keaton. I find their C-A pretty charming if a little bit samey and rehashed over and over again, but their S is just... creepy, even if it starts out OK. Her reason for accepting his proposal can pretty much boil down to "we wrote this support in a way that doesn't really lead up to them getting married but ahaha isn't Camilla cuh-RAZY?" I agree that it's a waste of time.

Soleil's supports with her mother, Ophelia and Nina make me uncomfortable, too, but I believe everything that can be said about them has been. I'll only add that I was excited at the prospect of a bisexual lady character and her getting cleaned up a bit in the localisation when it came to her supports but her one-note yuri fanaticism and borderline sexual harrassment really disappointed me, not to mention the localisation couldn't make up its mind as to whether she's... actually bisexual or not. Same with Nina - could've had a Robin Hood but got a 14-year-old Teen Wolf fan on tumblr. (Although I do like her Shiro support.)

EDIT: Gotta add Camilla/Ryoma. While not overtly terrible (particularly the S, which I think is great especially in JP) I have to comment on the lost opportunity to explore their characters and the political landscape, instead opting for a player-worship-fest which does neither of them justice. I still love them together because of headcanon, but Jesus Christ one of the most potentially interesting couples and they managed to completely butcher it.

Edited by nordopolica
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Jakob/Mozu and Jakob/Azura are indeed very nice.

Camilla/Keaton is, sadly, not as great as I'd hoped, but there are worse imo. And at least the S Support opened on these memorable lines:

Keaton: I think you need a strong man.

Camilla: ...You have ten seconds from the end of this sentence to reconsider that remark.

I dunno. It's good for Jakob, but it's weak for Azura since the only thing she really does is act as a sounding-board for Jakob.

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Oh no, Soren is much better than Shinon. My point is that I don't recall us ever being expected to see them as good or even decent people, while Jakob can get away with acting like an arse because he's nice to Corrin (his boss), Azura (his boss' best friend and heavily implied love interest) and the Royal Siblings (his boss' family), while Azama doesn't even act nice to anyone, but is apparently still okay because his dickishness is played for laughs. I'd be fine if they actually got called out on it a bit more and the humour was downplayed, but apparently being a douche to everyone around you is funny.

I agree. However, I don't believe Azama is particularly popular for that very reason, even if he's got a few good lines. Jakob, on the other hand, seems to be very well-liked and I just don't see why. I'd never be able to stand someone brown nosing me, and if I found out my subordinate had gone out of his way to insult people and make their lives generally more difficult, I would've fired him immediately.

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I agree. However, I don't believe Azama is particularly popular for that very reason, even if he's got a few good lines. Jakob, on the other hand, seems to be very well-liked and I just don't see why. I'd never be able to stand someone brown nosing me, and if I found out my subordinate had gone out of his way to insult people and make their lives generally more difficult, I would've fired him immediately.

maybe jakob is popular because he's british

i don't think there are many fire emblem characters that are british

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I agree. However, I don't believe Azama is particularly popular for that very reason, even if he's got a few good lines. Jakob, on the other hand, seems to be very well-liked and I just don't see why. I'd never be able to stand someone brown nosing me, and if I found out my subordinate had gone out of his way to insult people and make their lives generally more difficult, I would've fired him immediately.

Jakob has good battle quotes and the Butler class has an amazing animation set. I think that about sums it up. Plus a few of his supports are actually funny on those occasions where it's implied he's just overly blunt and likes sassing and doesn't actually mean anything by it. At least Orochi calls him out on it, even if she starts the support convo by making personal attacks in Jakob's own preferred style.

Edited by FlameUser64
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Oh no, Soren is much better than Shinon. My point is that I don't recall us ever being expected to see them as good or even decent people, while Jakob can get away with acting like an ass because he's nice to Corrin (his boss), Azura (his boss' best friend and heavily implied love interest) and the Royal Siblings (his boss' family), while Azama doesn't even act nice to anyone, but is apparently still okay because his dickishness is played for laughs. I'd be fine if they actually got called out on it a bit more and the humour was downplayed, but apparently being a douche to everyone around you is funny.

Wait, I thought Azama had some supports where he was called out on being jerk. I mean, doesn't Azama at least acknowledge he's a jerk while Jakob doesn't?

Unless I misread something (...I mean Azama and Jakob's supports, not your post).

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I agree. However, I don't believe Azama is particularly popular for that very reason, even if he's got a few good lines. Jakob, on the other hand, seems to be very well-liked and I just don't see why. I'd never be able to stand someone brown nosing me, and if I found out my subordinate had gone out of his way to insult people and make their lives generally more difficult, I would've fired him immediately.

Yeah, Azama falls flat because he's played for laughs. I like Soren and Shinon better because I can appreciate them for what they are; they both have somewhat sympathetic backstories, but we're never expected to see it as a justification for their behaviour.

Also, I've probably mentioned this before, but Jakob becomes much less likable once you actually work with someone like him. The guy was a complete jackass, but he was friends with the boss so he got away with everything he did. He pissed everyone off, and then we got on each others nerves. I and several others had to quit because the work environment was so toxic.

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Here are the supports that I read at this point and dislike:

Jakob/Felicia

Most of Jakob's supports in general (Jakob is just unpleasant)

Camilla/Ryoma

Silas/Hana

Silas/Effie

Silas/Camilla

Silas/Elise

Saizo/Hinoka

Camilla/Takumi

Orochi/Takumi

Soleil/Ophelia

Most of Soleil's supports in general

Saizo/Azura

Niles/Mozu

Edited by Frelia
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I'm going to be totally original and say most of Soleil's supports (mostly her supports with Ignatius, Ophelia, Nina, Mitama, and her mother).

For reasons that have been mentioned in this thread already.

I personally always got the impression that Soleil was never actually Bi, it was more of something she was doing to try and have in common with her father because she never really got to know him, at least in the japanese version. It was more of a way to have something relate-able with her father rather than actual affection and preference to women. After reading her supports, I wish that was the path they went with because that would of made a more interesting and understandable character than the creepy stalker that we got. I have to ignore almost the entirety of her supports in order to like the character much like I had to do with Tharja regarding her supports with Noire.

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