Jump to content

Bad/Horrible support conversations!


Michelaar
 Share

Recommended Posts

I haven't read all of Hayato's supports yet but a lot of them just annoy me. Yeah, I get it -- he's Ricken the shota mage all over again, wanting to prove himself as an adult man when he looks like a pre-teenaged boy. From what I've seen so far from his supports with his romance options (only at Ch. 14 in Revelations), he doesn't really grow up much, if any, in his supports.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 386
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I haven't read all of Hayato's supports yet but a lot of them just annoy me. Yeah, I get it -- he's Ricken the shota mage all over again, wanting to prove himself as an adult man when he looks like a pre-teenaged boy. From what I've seen so far from his supports with his romance options (only at Ch. 14 in Revelations), he doesn't really grow up much, if any, in his supports.

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Ricken the Dicken, please pick up your straight-jacket and diazepam at the second door to the left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And whats wrong with people shipping two female characters together for fun? Nothing. Its the internet, and they're not real.

I never said it was wrong for people to ship female characters together. I said it was wrong for people to ship them together because Soleil sexually harasses Ophelia and that isn't okay.

Edited by Matt-hue
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree on this. I was looking forward to the support chain to see more of their backstory and such but it never really came. It's just a wasted opportunity. There was more to learn about the two of them D:

I already said it in the "best supports" topic, but I was disappointed how Kaze and Kagero's supports were fairly dull and straightforward, and they never brought up the fact that she used to be with his brother. You'd think it would've come up at least once at some point. Other than that, though, I think almost all of his supports are well done.

I never said it was wrong for people to ship female characters together. I said it was wrong for people to ship them together because Soleil sexually harasses Ophelia and that isn't okay.

This. I'm actually a little annoyed that they took out almost all of Soleil's romantic supports with the men and made her look even more lesbian/bisexual without letting her support the women in a romantic way (not that I think she deserves to be with Ophelia after what she pulled).

Edited by thievery
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Azama is an asshat in most of his, though surprisingly I found that he's pretty nice to Felicia, if only because his blunt criticism is genuine and borne of legitimate desire for her to improve.

...but that's not what this topic is about, is it ~3~

I didn't like F!Corrin's supports with Odin (or M!Corrin's, for that matter TBH). I know Odin is a complete goof, but personally, I enjoy him for that. Corrin is just kind of a jerk to him though, there's never any particular indication that Corrin every appreciates or enjoys his quirks... This doesn't matter so much for M!Corrin, but for chick Corrin? I can understand her wanting Odin to make a serious proposal, but the fact that she's so intolerant of his shenanigans in all their previous interactions make her embracing them after marriage feel really unearned to me...

I was looking for some sweet, fluffy shit like in f!RobinxOwain's Hot Spring Scramble convo, but no dice. >___>


I haven't read all of Hayato's supports yet but a lot of them just annoy me. Yeah, I get it -- he's Ricken the shota mage all over again, wanting to prove himself as an adult man when he looks like a pre-teenaged boy. From what I've seen so far from his supports with his romance options (only at Ch. 14 in Revelations), he doesn't really grow up much, if any, in his supports.

That, and even though Ricken was quite ambitious and hot-headed, he was also quite nice and good-natured to most people he interacts with. Hayato is just kind of a jerk to a lot of people, and is definitely way more insecure about his shota-ness than even Ricken was.

Edited by BANRYU
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't know if there's a thread about this, but a few I liked:

Xander x Selena. It's actually curious he is also a prince, like Chrom, but Selena had the courage to go for it. In that respect, she did surpass her mother. I have doubts about her being a good queen, but from the supports it felt like opposites (but not that much opposite) attract.

Odin x Azura was pretty cool too and also has a lot of backstory. Owain says how he (or another him) dies in the Future Past and that makes him scared of bridges (as he cut the rope of the bridge to ensure the others would bring the gemstones to Lucina).

For Azura, she tells about her daily life in court as a child from Garon's second wife. Makes you wonder that being kidnapped and raised in Hoshido was probably a good thing for her. The support is also funny.

Niles x Arthur. I don't know about the innuendo thing, but I liked the backstory of the support and how Arthur just judged him by appearances/habits then became friends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't know if there's a thread about this, but a few I liked:

Xander x Selena. It's actually curious he is also a prince, like Chrom, but Selena had the courage to go for it. In that respect, she did surpass her mother. I have doubts about her being a good queen, but from the supports it felt like opposites (but not that much opposite) attract.

Odin x Azura was pretty cool too and also has a lot of backstory. Owain says how he (or another him) dies in the Future Past and that makes him scared of bridges (as he cut the rope of the bridge to ensure the others would bring the gemstones to Lucina).

For Azura, she tells about her daily life in court as a child from Garon's second wife. Makes you wonder that being kidnapped and raised in Hoshido was probably a good thing for her. The support is also funny.

Niles x Arthur. I don't know about the innuendo thing, but I liked the backstory of the support and how Arthur just judged him by appearances/habits then became friends.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=62414 here's the thread you're looking for.

...and damn, that got pushed to page 2 already? This board moves fast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm probably going to get some flak for saying this, but I DON'T hate Soleil x Mother. Mainly because I never saw it as Soleil hitting on her. When I read it, it made me think that Soleil sees her mother as pretty much the perfect woman, and given Soleil's blunt and straightforward nature when it comes to interacting with girls, she won't have any qualms when expressing her feelings towards her mother. She's very open and direct with how she feels, to the point of being bothersome and distracting (which the supports also comments on), but I don't think the intention was for Soleil to hit on her (If that was the intention, I doubt the convo would have been localized as it was).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't read all of Hayato's supports yet but a lot of them just annoy me. Yeah, I get it -- he's Ricken the shota mage all over again, wanting to prove himself as an adult man when he looks like a pre-teenaged boy. From what I've seen so far from his supports with his romance options (only at Ch. 14 in Revelations), he doesn't really grow up much, if any, in his supports.

Some of Hayato's supports (Hinoka, Orochi, Oboro, Kagero, Mozu, Fuga) barely deal with his his complex or at least give a reason why he acts that way. I honestly like Hayato way more than Ricken, because unlike Ricken, Hayato actually has a reason to be frustrated with people looking down on him (he's already treated like an adult in the Wind Tribe).

I will agree with others that Corrin/Hayato, both of them, is just a boring rehash of Robin/Ricken and didn't need to exist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Uh, you'd be right about that, except for the Micaiah/Oliver A support. That's better than most of Fates.

Tbh, I don't think that sounds very understandable. I don't mean it doesn't sound understandable in a monstrous or reprehensible. I mean it doesn't seem very realistic. The idea that a girl goes around hitting on girls because she wants to feel a kinship with the dad she never got to know despite not being attracted to them seems strange. I certainly have known women who'll flirt with girls despite not being interested in em sexually, but it doesn't seem like they do it because it makes them feel like they have something in common with their dad. And those girls flirt with guys too. Maybe I'm wrong.

I think you kind of misunderstood what I meant. The reason I say this is because she treats relationship with women like more of a game or a trophy. Its not the actual relationship, its just the ability for her to say "I had tea with girl#1 today" or something like that. She sees her dad do this type of thing, flirting with women and doing things of that nature, so she looks at it as a way of "hey dad look, I am just like you." Its a lot like how you see young kids imitate their parents to be like them. They look up to them, I still remember grabbing a lego piece and pretending to shave like my dad because I thought it was so cool and I wanted to be like that too. In a way I think its that same thing with Soleil, or at least that is the way I saw her without looking at most of her supports.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you kind of misunderstood what I meant. The reason I say this is because she treats relationship with women like more of a game or a trophy. Its not the actual relationship, its just the ability for her to say "I had tea with girl#1 today" or something like that. She sees her dad do this type of thing, flirting with women and doing things of that nature, so she looks at it as a way of "hey dad look, I am just like you." Its a lot like how you see young kids imitate their parents to be like them. They look up to them, I still remember grabbing a lego piece and pretending to shave like my dad because I thought it was so cool and I wanted to be like that too. In a way I think its that same thing with Soleil, or at least that is the way I saw her without looking at most of her supports.

well, looking at most of her supports, you can see that that's definitely not the case

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you kind of misunderstood what I meant. The reason I say this is because she treats relationship with women like more of a game or a trophy. Its not the actual relationship, its just the ability for her to say "I had tea with girl#1 today" or something like that. She sees her dad do this type of thing, flirting with women and doing things of that nature, so she looks at it as a way of "hey dad look, I am just like you." Its a lot like how you see young kids imitate their parents to be like them. They look up to them, I still remember grabbing a lego piece and pretending to shave like my dad because I thought it was so cool and I wanted to be like that too. In a way I think its that same thing with Soleil, or at least that is the way I saw her without looking at most of her supports.

Nah Soliel just genuinely enjoys women, both in horny and completely platonic ways.

I see nothing wrong with the localized ophy x soliel support line btw. Ophelia straight up cursed Soliel anything from there was fair game, pretty sure I'd be more offended/violated by someone forcefully ripping my soul out that "oh man I'll be in my bunk" (The A support is actually kinda sweet btw).

Edited by joshcja
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nah Soliel just genuinely enjoys women, both in horny and completely platonic ways.

I see nothing wrong with the localized ophy x soliel support line btw. Ophelia straight up cursed Soliel anything from there was fair game, pretty sure I'd be more offended/violated by someone forcefully ripping my soul out that "oh man I'll be in my bunk" (The A support is actually kinda sweet btw).

Nothing wrong with repeated harassment despite protests? Treating Ophelia like an object for her amusement is definitly fucked up. The curse might have been questionable, but Soleil had been bothering her throughout the entire support line and showed no signs of stopping. "Anything is fair game"? What the hell kind of statement is that? This does not excuse violating someones personal space, and definitly shouldn't be brought up as a defense of Soleil's actions.

The whole support line is messed up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will definitely say that was one of the most dissapointing parts of Localization. We get rid of Soleil's original support because people associated the powder with date rape drugs, but we are fine with leaving in the Ophelia x Soleil support line, which in my opinion is 10x worst than the other because it actually does contain sexual harassment and consent issues. What makes it even worst is when you go on Tumblr and they ship the two together, and say Ophelia is just hiding closet feelings, and that she should be so mean. Makes me want to hate a character that I actually like barring most of her supports.

Back on topic I found Xander and Hinoka's support really boring. I was hoping for something better, but the whole support felt like a really bad build up to the S-Support that made no sense.

Edited by Tolvir
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nothing wrong with repeated harassment despite protests? Treating Ophelia like an object for her amusement is definitly fucked up. The curse might have been questionable, but Soleil had been bothering her throughout the entire support line and showed no signs of stopping. "Anything is fair game"? What the hell kind of statement is that? This does not excuse violating someones personal space, and definitly shouldn't be brought up as a defense of Soleil's actions.

The whole support line is messed up.

Ok:

A) I'm pretty sure the line of consent is crossed when you literally force someone inside you. I have no idea why people are reading into this as more than a tropy/juvenile joke but if you want to go for it go all the way. Don't just go "omg she objectified the supermodel in stripper clothes this is offensive". Explore the nice twisted reverse reverse reverse rape scenario of ye olde "body swap" trope for all the sublimated horror you can drink in n_n.

B) Seriously:

Ophelia: I looked forward to meeting you even before I came to this world. But when at last we did meet...you were such an embarrassment... Not at all like the comrade-in-arms that I had imagined you to be.

Soleil: Oh. I'm...I'm sorry...

Ophelia: No... I blame myself. I made you out to be something you're not. You only ever saw me as I am... But when I looked at you, I compared you to the ideal I had in my mind. When I think back, you never said you wanted anything more from me than to talk. I was the one who ran from you, refusing to listen to what you were saying. So if anyone should apologize, it's me.

Soliel straight up wanted to chill with her dads's besties daughter who she honestly admires. Ophelia gives her hell for an unspecified amount of time and then rips her out of her body, a situation that Soliel diffuses in a reasonably peaceful manner. Soliel then comes over and apologizes in the A support. That's way above and beyond the line of duty. Soliel is a flirt, but she's good people.

Edit: I don't even like Soliel that much. I'm pretty neutral on her overall but holy crap you folks are making her out to be a straight up daterapist because "lol boobies". It's juvenile and stupid but it's a known cliche or trope. There is a line between "it's offensive" and "I'm offended", learn it. There are genuinely abusive supports in this game (harlot x saizo comes to mind) of nothing but verbal and at times physical abuse and degradation, this is actually offensive to anyone not a born in blood submissive. Soleil never crosses that line, if the trope offends you that's fine, it's ok, you have every right to your own opinion, but don't project that onto everyone.

Edited by joshcja
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok

A) I'm pretty sure the line of consent is crossed when you literally force someone inside you. I have no idea why people are reading into this as more than a tropy/juvenile joke but if you want to go for it go all the way. Don't just go "omg she objectified the supermodel in stripper clothes this is offensive". Explore the nice twisted reverse reverse reverse rape scenario of ye olde "body swap" trope for all the sublimated horror you can drink in n_n.

B) How the support actually goes down if you read it like a normal person: The C support shows only that... Ophelia is annoyed with Soliel, in the B she tries to "fix" Soliel by force and Soliel turns it around on her, in the A support you find out that.... Soliel was just trying to hang out with her dad's besties daughter and Ophy was just mad at her for not living up to her own little fantasy.

Seriously:

Ophelia: I looked forward to meeting you even before I came to this world. But when at last we did meet...you were such an embarrassment... Not at all like the comrade-in-arms that I had imagined you to be.

Soleil: Oh. I'm...I'm sorry...

Ophelia: No... I blame myself. I made you out to be something you're not. You only ever saw me as I am... But when I looked at you, I compared you to the ideal I had in my mind. When I think back, you never said you wanted anything more from me than to talk. I was the one who ran from you, refusing to listen to what you were saying. So if anyone should apologize, it's me.

The way you justify Soleil's harassment is sending chills down my spine. "objectified the super model in strippers clothes" really? What Ophelia is wearing doesn't matter at all. She could be naked and it would still count as harassment to touch her against her will. If she says "stop" an "don't touch me" Soleil has to fucking stop touching her or it counts as hartassment.

Also if your entire argument for Soleil's touching being justified is "Ophelia wasn't bothered that much" then right back at you: Soleil also didn't seem horrified when she discovered the body swap. Indeed, she was rather exstatic about being able to get a closer look at Ophelia's body.

But see.. of course this doesn't justify such an act. So when Ophelia was clearly put off by Soleil's advances, Soleil not stopping was wrong. The fact that you refuse to aknowledge this and then turn around and accuse me of downplaying the body swap is ridiculous. I never did. I said it was wrong, and Ophelia shouldn't have done it.

This still doesn't excuse Soleil not being able to take a fucking hint and stop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Soliel straight up wanted to chill with her dads's besties daughter who she honestly admires. Ophelia gives her hell for an unspecified amount of time and then rips her out of her body, a situation that Soliel diffuses in a reasonably peaceful manner. Soliel then comes over and apologizes in the A support. That's way above and beyond the line of duty on the "overly good person" front.

Except nothing Soleil said in the C and B Support indicated that that was her intention, just like nothing in the C and B support indicated that Ophelia was avoiding Soleil for any other reason than she was being harassed. Ophelia even tells her to leave her alone in their C Support, but Soleil refuses. She's so stressed out by Soleil's harassment that she starts crying in their B Support. Trying to spin the support to make Soleil look like the wronged party completely ignores what actually happens in the support.

EDIT: For reference:

[spoiler=from the C Support]

Ophelia: Soleil...why must you always chase me around?

Soleil: Isn't it obvious? Because I'm interested in you! You and me were destined to be together! Once you finally realize it, we'll be a partnership for the ages.

Ophelia: Please...just leave me be...

Soleil: Ahaha... I'm not letting you go that easy, my cute little butterfly! Relax already! We have so much to talk about that I can't wait to get started. Heheh...ooooooh, this is gonna be good!

Ophelia: N-nooooooooo!

[spoiler=from the B Support]

Ophelia: Soleil, you dunderhead!

Soleil: What did I do?!

Ophelia: I thought surely that spell would make you see the error of your ways. My plan was to have you swear not to chase me as a condition for restoring you. THEN maybe we could be normal friends!

Soleil: Uh...

Ophelia: But no...you'll never change, I suppose. You'll never listen to my pleas... You'll always hound me, try as I might to hide. W-well, see if I care! *sniff* *sob*

Edited by AzureSen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not a fan of Camilla's and Silas' support, more so their A rank. It's not bad perse, I just don't like how it ends. They admit they were in love with each other and then it ends. It kind of just annoys me.

I also dislike the changes to M!Corrina and Niles S rank. IMO it is too similar to F!Corrin's and NIles' and it removes a lot of his more sensitive moments, especially his confession. Though I still ship it hard tho.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except nothing Soleil said in the C and B Support indicated that that was her intention, just like nothing in the C and B support indicated that Ophelia was avoiding Soleil for any other reason than she was being harassed. Ophelia even tells her to leave her alone in their C Support, but Soleil refuses. She's so stressed out by Soleil's harassment that she starts crying in their B Support. Trying to spin the support to make Soleil look like the wronged party completely ignores what actually happens in the support.

EDIT: For reference:

[spoiler=from the C Support]

Ophelia: Soleil...why must you always chase me around?

Soleil: Isn't it obvious? Because I'm interested in you! You and me were destined to be together! Once you finally realize it, we'll be a partnership for the ages.

Ophelia: Please...just leave me be...

Soleil: Ahaha... I'm not letting you go that easy, my cute little butterfly! Relax already! We have so much to talk about that I can't wait to get started. Heheh...ooooooh, this is gonna be good!

Ophelia: N-nooooooooo!

[spoiler=from the B Support]

Ophelia: Soleil, you dunderhead!

Soleil: What did I do?!

Ophelia: I thought surely that spell would make you see the error of your ways. My plan was to have you swear not to chase me as a condition for restoring you. THEN maybe we could be normal friends!

Soleil: Uh...

Ophelia: But no...you'll never change, I suppose. You'll never listen to my pleas... You'll always hound me, try as I might to hide. W-well, see if I care! *sniff* *sob*

Oh if you take the C and B supports as stand alone's rather than considering the entire support line it looks awful. I'm pretty sure the media has shown us all that you can make anything terrible by not observing the full picture though.

I never said Soliel wasn't an idiot just that in this case she had good intentions. Both of them were wrong and they both admit it. I never "spun" anything, but I do actually consider the implications of the A support.

@ Nanima: You're rather one note on this aren't you? Solid selective reading.

Edited by joshcja
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I posted this on the Favorite Support Thread:

Soleil and Ophelia A support - The C and B support are garbage (Although Soleil doesn't sexually harass Ophelia. If you want actual sexual harassment, try Japanese Foleo x Soleil supports), but the A-Support gives us some great character interaction with Soleil feeling terrible for what she did to the point where if Ophelia didn't forgive her, she would leave her alone. In all honesty, I love this A-Support. I just wish it wasn't preceded by two rounds of Soleil harassing Ophelia and one round of Ophelia thinking that ransom is great way to solve her problems (Yes, hold Soleil's body hostage, despite the fact that she is OBSESSED with you, by switching bodies with her. That's a fucking brilliant plan. What could possibly go wrong?).

I don't support what both of them did. Soleil shouldn't have harassed Ophelia and Ophelia should have realized that her plan was going to backfire. However, it was this part that made me not hate this support:

Soleil: Ophelia... Um...I wanted to apologize. I'm really sorry for how I acted. I kept doing what you told me not to. I should have listened to you.

Ophelia: ...

Soleil: I really like you, Ophelia. I think you're supercool. You're confident in yourself, and you never flinch or falter in battle. That's why I wanted to sit down and talk with you. That's all I wanted, really... But I was so nervous, all my invitations came out wrong. I'm really sorry. I promise I won't do that to you again. So please...if it's all right with you, I still want to be your friend.

Ophelia: ...

Soleil: I...guess it's not all right. OK.

Soleil feels horrible. She realizes that she fucked up, and she want's to change. If Ophelia had said no, Soleil would have walked away and that would be the end of that. This is why I don't hate this support.

Anyway, worst support conversation goes to Japanese Soleil and Foleo. Just read it for yourself. It's appalling.

Edited by Hunter Nightblood
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Charlotte and Saizou support is abusive? I just finished the C-A ranks and Saizou was just casually trolling her and covertly dropping compliments. Was this during the S-rank or something?

To be honest, I love and hate all the supports. I keep fluctuating between each extreme for some reason. This is a testament to IS writing.

Soliel, I already knew I would feel not much of anything for her because they reused her father's gimmick. It doesn't have anything to do with gender or sex--they just should not have reused that trope for the Awakening kids. I love Ophelia but I would be hypocritical if I didn't call her for it.

I love Charlotte but I don't like how a lot of her supports follow the same formula. There are some that go well with the formula but there should have been more to her character than that one trope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I posted this on the Favorite Support Thread:

I don't support what both of them did. Soleil shouldn't have harassed Ophelia and Ophelia should have realized that her plan was going to backfire. However, it was this part that made me not hate this support:

Soleil: Ophelia... Um...I wanted to apologize. I'm really sorry for how I acted. I kept doing what you told me not to. I should have listened to you.

Ophelia: ...

Soleil: I really like you, Ophelia. I think you're supercool. You're confident in yourself, and you never flinch or falter in battle. That's why I wanted to sit down and talk with you. That's all I wanted, really... But I was so nervous, all my invitations came out wrong. I'm really sorry. I promise I won't do that to you again. So please...if it's all right with you, I still want to be your friend.

Ophelia: ...

Soleil: I...guess it's not all right. OK.

Soleil feels horrible. She realizes that she fucked up, and she want's to change. If Ophelia had said no, Soleil would have walked away and that would be the end of that. This is why I don't hate this support.

Anyway, worst support conversation goes to Japanese Soleil and Foleo. Just read it for yourself. It's appalling.

I actually thought it was cute how Ophelia accepts to be friends with her on the basis that they should get along considering how close their fathers are. Haven't read all of Soleil's supports, but I do hope this chain was her very worst.

Japanese Foleo x Soleil can die in a hole though.

Edited by LeDom
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Foleo/Soleil, Asama/Kagerou and Joker/Rinka (Japanese versions only) are all awful too for reasons I've already said.

Outside of them? Certain Zero and Joker supports, along with Pieri/the servants. Those ones are reaaaalllyyyy bad, imo.

Edited by Matt-hue
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...