Takumi

[Christianguy7]

Why do we blame him for everything?

[Nanima]

It's an injoke from an early stream of the japanese game that turned into a meme.

[Melissa]

Because he's evil

[Emblem Blade]

Why do we blame him for everything?

Those that don't really know Takumi's inferior complex would say he's a horrible character. However...

A) He believes that no one really cares for him causing him to be cold and distant (he recovers in Birthright and Conquest).

B) Feels like he's the weakest of the family (tries to act strong and resilient as a result).

C) Tends to have the most doubts for good reasons at times.

*The inferior complex stems from A and B.

I can't really blame Takumi since I feel like I'm similar to him at times and some of his responses due to his personal troubles are often the same as mine.

[joshcja]

Why do we blame him for everything?

It's all his fault.

(Sans rev where the back of Leo's hand is magical and Takumi gets bitch slapped back to humanity)

[secondworld]

Mostly just a meme at this point.

[Shadow Knight]

Because he's Takumi and he deserves it

[Emblem Blade]

It's all his fault.

(Sans rev where the back of Leo's hand is magical and Takumi gets bitch slapped back to humanity)

That's quite the view to see someone who has had those personal struggles since they were really young. Takumi has suffered from the thought that he isn't needed in the family. Only a few people really help him recover from that gloomy room (Azura, Izana and Corrin/Kamui mostly). Saying that everything is his fault is just as much saying that it's everyone's fault that IS made a game that shouldn't exist (FE: Fates) since more than two trivial components to a FE game aren't present or are lacklusters. Outside of memes, Takumi doesn't deserve all the hatred that goes to him.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Emblem Blade

[Shadow Knight]

It's all his fault.

(Sans rev where the back of Leo's hand is magical and Takumi gets bitch slapped back to humanity)

I prefer to do the work myself. Preferably a swift stab to the neck to put him out of my misery. It's much more cathartic when you do it yourself.

[saisymbolic]

That's quite the view to see someone who has had those personal struggles since they were really young. Takumi has suffered from the thought that he isn't needed in the family. Only a few people really help him recover from that gloomy room (Azura, Izana and Corrin/Kamui mostly). Saying that everything is his fault is just as much saying that it's everyone's fault that IS made a game that shouldn't exist (FE: Fates) since more than two trivial components to a FE game aren't present or are lacklusters. Outside of memes, Takumi doesn't deserve all the hatred that goes to him.

You do realize he was joking, right?

But, yes, the dislike for Takumi is just for some goofs and gaffs and a couple of laughs. It's just as prank, bro. Don't read too much into it.

[Emblem Blade]

You do realize he was joking, right?

But, yes, the dislike for Takumi is just for some goofs and gaffs and a couple of laughs. It's just as prank, bro. Don't read too much into it.

I can quote this about myself whenever people tell me that the one I responded to was joking: I have a really, really bad sense of humor due to my past experiences around my middle and high school friends. It's not common that I see a joke that makes a lot of sense unless I know where and when the joke started and/or what the meaning behind the joke is.

[saisymbolic]

I can quote this about myself whenever people tell me that the one I responded to was joking: I have a really, really bad sense of humor due to my past experiences around my middle and high school friends. It's not common that I see a joke that makes a lot of sense unless I know where and when the joke started and/or what the meaning behind the joke is.

Well, I can understand that. I have moments where I myself take certain things personally before I have to calm myself, take a step back and analyze the situation.

I just didn't want this thread to turn into some kind of argument about morals or something like that. No offense, if it seemed that way.

(The Great Arthur knows we've seen too much of that in this game's forum at this point in time.)

Edited March 24, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

[Nanima]

Okay. This specifically doesn't refer to the people who blame Takumi as a half-hearted joke or meme. This is meant for his actual detractors.

It's really interesting how many people hate on Takumi for not being another Corrin worshipper as well as being confrontational or mean to their favourites.

In my opinion his reactions and opinions are either judtified or can at least be explained (if not excused) by his deep psychological issues. He is quite a complex character in general.

He never knew Corrin the way Ryouma and Hinoka did, having been even younger back then. To suddenly see this stranger coming from an enemy nation be embraced by his family really kicked off his inferiority complex. He himself is convinced that his family and everyone else doesn't care for him at all. Because why should they? He thinks he is worthless after all.

So yelling at Corrin was a mix of his justified suspicion (imagine yourself in his shoes. Would you trust Corrin immeditaley?) and his jealousy over all the affection they were getting. When Azura stepped in, he yelled at her, which was definitly wrong. But I doubt he ever held any actual malice for her. Azura herself confirms n Conquest, that while he never accepted her as a sister, he also was never really cruel and certainly could be kind.

Oh and then he gets a front line seat to his moms assassination. For which Corrin is responsible. The fact that Corrin was manipulated into it by Garon isn't readily apparent, so you really can't fault him for blowing up at them. The event deeply traumatized him, to the point where he has screaming nightmares of it. Something he really is no stranger to (another sign of his psychological issues)

I really do not see any reason to hate him on Birthright. He gets possessed early on, being partially freed by Azura (after which he apologizes for his earlier yelling) and then spends most of the rest of the route as Iago's unwitting pawn. If anything, the blame should go to that fucker.

Now on Conquest. Is there any reason Takumi is supposed to react positively towards Corrin after they joined back up with the enemy side? The ones definitly responsible for Mikoto's death? Why should he believe in this stranger whose only actions so far where getting his mom killed and joining up with the side bend on conquering his homeland?

Many people also hate him for shooting at Elise, claiming that she is a non-combatant. I wonder if those people refused to let this "noncombatant" ever fight on any map. I'd say no. Also she isn't even hurt by the arrow of one of the most powerful weapons in the world. So I am pretty certain he wasn't actively trying to kill her there.

We can't be sure of how responsible he is for his remaining actions on Conquest, because of Anankos' gradual possession.

So here we have a character with deep psychological issues that reacts realistically in accordance with them, yet also shows many moments of true kindness (see his supports with Mozume, Sakura, Oboro, Azura etc.). Are some of his actions and words uncalled for? Yes. But I prefer him as his flawed self. It really shows how a person with insecurity can act in a way that harms both them and others.

All too often media portrays insecurity as something that produces fluffy cinnamonrolls that only need lots of hugs to get better. Takumi instead pushes people away, gets abrasive and often digs his own grave.

His insecurity is portrayed as a flaw, which I love. I can identify with it so much better than Mary Sue/Gary Stu!Corrin.

[twice]

Takumi is a cute little pineapple head brat which lots of people blame because he is satan????

[Emblem Blade]

Well, I can understand that. I have moments where I myself take certain things personally before I have to calm myself, take a step back and analyze the situation.

I just didn't want this thread to turn into some kind of argument about morals or something like that. No offense, if it seemed that way.

(The Great Arthur knows we've seen too much of that in this game's forum at this point in time.)

I really don't want to see an unneeded argument show up either. Just that due to my poor sense of humor thanks to my friends back in middle and early high school, I can't really see a joke at first sight until someone later on ends up explaining what the joke meant (unless I somehow can get a grasp on why the joke got brought up).

It's complicated for me to explain entirely that there are times I feel like I am Takumi since I've had similar issues that he's had before so I have a bit more sympathy for him. When I can understand how a character feels and I have experienced some of the same problems that they have had, it's hard for me to see jokes directed towards said characters as being funny when the context of the joke doesn't sound funny to me at first.

[saisymbolic]

Takumi is a cute little pineapple head brat which lots of people blame because he is satan????

Pineapples are the devil's poop so, therefore, yes.

I love pineapples so...

[joshcja]

I really don't want to see an unneeded argument show up either. Just that due to my poor sense of humor thanks to my friends back in middle and early high school, I can't really see a joke at first sight until someone later on ends up explaining what the joke meant (unless I somehow can get a grasp on why the joke got brought up).

It's complicated for me to explain entirely that there are times I feel like I am Takumi since I've had similar issues that he's had before so I have a bit more sympathy for him. When I can understand how a character feels and I have experienced some of the same problems that they have had, it's hard for me to see jokes directed towards said characters as being funny when the context of the joke doesn't sound funny to me at first.

Chill and just work on it nobody who matters is going to get mad because you disagree on the internet.

You'll grow out of it over time. (Or just come to terms with being a curmudgeon :P)

(I do actually hate Takumi on 2 of the 3 routes, Conquest he's pure scum, birthright he's an out and out traitor, no forgiveness there. On rev he's actually chill though for a given value of chill)

Edited March 24, 2016 by joshcja

[claire]

i don't blame him hes perfect

[saisymbolic]

I really don't want to see an unneeded argument show up either. Just that due to my poor sense of humor thanks to my friends back in middle and early high school, I can't really see a joke at first sight until someone later on ends up explaining what the joke meant (unless I somehow can get a grasp on why the joke got brought up).

It's complicated for me to explain entirely that there are times I feel like I am Takumi since I've had similar issues that he's had before so I have a bit more sympathy for him. When I can understand how a character feels and I have experienced some of the same problems that they have had, it's hard for me to see jokes directed towards said characters as being funny when the context of the joke doesn't sound funny to me at first.

Now, I can honestly say that I also see some of myself in Takumi. Middle and high school were the worst times in my life. For some reason, everything I did somehow garnered ridicule or laughter from the people around me--it's part of the reason as to why I suffer from social anxiety nowadays. And, even now, it feels like I'm a weak person that is afraid of doing anything in fear of messing it up and having the whole world laugh at me. Like, I see similarities between myself and Takumi but putting it into words is hard--hell, I'm sort of like Benny in that respect

What I'm trying to say is that, while our issues differ, I can find myself understanding what you are saying even if I'm bad at explaining just how.

I'm so awkward.

[Emblem Blade]

Chill and just work on it nobody who matters is going to get mad because you disagree on the internet.

You'll grow out of it over time. (Or just come to terms with being a curmudgeon :P)

(I do actually hate Takumi on 2 of the 3 routes, Conquest he's pure scum, birthright he's an out and out traitor, no forgiveness there. On rev he's actually chill though for a given value of chill)

A joke can be understood or misunderstood by the context and tone that it is expressed by. Context as in the description of the the joke. If the joke is purely for the laughs than it would be more than 'Because it is all his fault', since that description can also be seen as 'That person really thinks that because it really is all hit fault no matter what due to not having a reason'. Tone shows if you're being serious or comedic, since we can't personally see each other speak (on Forums) to know if one is joking or not, it's not hard to misread someone who's joking for being dead serious.

Nanima had a point for why Takumi isn't really so much as a jerk that he appears to be. He actually has more justification to his actions that can be agreed with as his Nohr counterpart, Leo.

Now, I can honestly say that I also see some of myself in Takumi. Middle and high school were the worst times in my life. For some reason, everything I did somehow garnered ridicule or laughter from the people around me--it's part of the reason as to why I suffer from social anxiety nowadays. And, even now, it feels like I'm a weak person that is afraid of doing anything in fear of messing it up and having the whole world laugh at me. Like, I see similarities between myself and Takumi but putting it into words is hard--hell, I'm sort of like Benny in that respect

What I'm trying to say is that, while our issues differ, I can find myself understanding what you are saying even if I'm bad at explaining just how.

I'm so awkward.

When I compare myself to FE characters, I'm more or less like Soren, Leo and Takumi regarding personality and past troubles.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Emblem Blade

[iavasechui]

birthright he's an out and out traitor, no forgiveness there

Last I checked one is not in control of ones actions while one is possessed so how exactly is he a traitor?

[maybe]

Okay. This specifically doesn't refer to the people who blame Takumi as a half-hearted joke or meme. This is meant for his actual detractors.

It's really interesting how many people hate on Takumi for not being another Corrin worshipper as well as being confrontational or mean to their favourites.

In my opinion his reactions and opinions are either judtified or can at least be explained (if not excused) by his deep psychological issues. He is quite a complex character in general.

He never knew Corrin the way Ryouma and Hinoka did, having been even younger back then. To suddenly see this stranger coming from an enemy nation be embraced by his family really kicked off his inferiority complex. He himself is convinced that his family and everyone else doesn't care for him at all. Because why should they? He thinks he is worthless after all.

So yelling at Corrin was a mix of his justified suspicion (imagine yourself in his shoes. Would you trust Corrin immeditaley?) and his jealousy over all the affection they were getting. When Azura stepped in, he yelled at her, which was definitly wrong. But I doubt he ever held any actual malice for her. Azura herself confirms n Conquest, that while he never accepted her as a sister, he also was never really cruel and certainly could be kind.

Oh and then he gets a front line seat to his moms assassination. For which Corrin is responsible. The fact that Corrin was manipulated into it by Garon isn't readily apparent, so you really can't fault him for blowing up at them. The event deeply traumatized him, to the point where he has screaming nightmares of it. Something he really is no stranger to (another sign of his psychological issues)

I really do not see any reason to hate him on Birthright. He gets possessed early on, being partially freed by Azura (after which he apologizes for his earlier yelling) and then spends most of the rest of the route as Iago's unwitting pawn. If anything, the blame should go to that fucker.

Now on Conquest. Is there any reason Takumi is supposed to react positively towards Corrin after they joined back up with the enemy side? The ones definitly responsible for Mikoto's death? Why should he believe in this stranger whose only actions so far where getting his mom killed and joining up with the side bend on conquering his homeland?

Many people also hate him for shooting at Elise, claiming that she is a non-combatant. I wonder if those people refused to let this "noncombatant" ever fight on any map. I'd say no. Also she isn't even hurt by the arrow of one of the most powerful weapons in the world. So I am pretty certain he wasn't actively trying to kill her there.

We can't be sure of how responsible he is for his remaining actions on Conquest, because of Anankos' gradual possession.

So here we have a character with deep psychological issues that reacts realistically in accordance with them, yet also shows many moments of true kindness (see his supports with Mozume, Sakura, Oboro, Azura etc.). Are some of his actions and words uncalled for? Yes. But I prefer him as his flawed self. It really shows how a person with insecurity can act in a way that harms both them and others.

All too often media portrays insecurity as something that produces fluffy cinnamonrolls that only need lots of hugs to get better. Takumi instead pushes people away, gets abrasive and often digs his own grave.

His insecurity is portrayed as a flaw, which I love. I can identify with it so much better than Mary Sue/Gary Stu!Corrin.

while I 100% agree with all of this about Conquest Takumi

(I mean, he literally saw a guy from the enemy kingdom show up and essentially cause his mom's death, then go back to said enemy kingdom)

I still do find it really weird how mean he was to azura at the beginning? like, he literally says to her not to call him by his name and that he doesn't trust her. that's literally the only thing I don't like about him and it really soured my initial impression of him, since I really wanted to like him (and do like him) as one of the few characters who is not an idiot and does not blindly trust and love Corn.

anyway I really do like takumi and I wish the meme of him being god stayed longer than the meme of him being satan

the only thing I genuinely don't like about him aside from what I previously mentioned is

his role in conquest as the final boss like what the fuck is that even

[Nanima]

while I 100% agree with all of this about Conquest Takumi

(I mean, he literally saw a guy from the enemy kingdom show up and essentially cause his mom's death, then go back to said enemy kingdom)

I still do find it really weird how mean he was to azura at the beginning? like, he literally says to her not to call him by his name and that he doesn't trust her. that's literally the only thing I don't like about him and it really soured my initial impression of him, since I really wanted to like him (and do like him) as one of the few characters who is not an idiot and does not blindly trust and love Corn.

anyway I really do like takumi and I wish the meme of him being god stayed longer than the meme of him being satan

the only thing I genuinely don't like about him aside from what I previously mentioned is

his role in conquest as the final boss like what the fuck is that even

Yeah the Azura thing was uncalled for. But it's not like we haven't had our moments of assholish teenage behaviour before. Which is what I am interpreting it as. His anger was mostly aimed at Corrin, and he only laid into Azura whenever she stepped between them. Shitty but not exceptionally evil. He is otherwise perfectly civil towards Azura, though somewhat distant at times. Which I don't really hold against him, considering Azura took active steps to remain distant from all of the Broshidos aside from Sakura. His apology on Birthright is genuine and heartfelt, and it only doesn't take place on Conquest because Azura joins up with Nohr (or maybe it did offscreen, who knows).

As someone who has acted similarly when having a fit, I really can't hold it against him.

The final boss thing was definitly stupid. As was his sudden apology to Corrin, when the latter had just finished conquering Hoshido purely to place Garon on a shiny chair, for the "good of both nations". Corrin should have been the one to apologize, but I digress.. Takumi shouldn't have gotten possessed in the first place. It was a dumb plot device

Edited March 24, 2016 by Nanima²

[Karis]

Trumpkumi for president. Keeping Nohrian Scum out.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I don't like Takumi much.

On Conquest he is a bad, bad character. He behaves like a maniac. No, shooting Elise isn't cool (and I say this as someone who had zero problem with Ryoma rationally holding the medicine from Elise hostage in the previous chapter, that made good sense), nor is repeatedly escalating a fight. I don't mind that he doesn't trust Corrin, that's deserved. I do mind that he throws Azura's heritage in her face, though. Past that, yeah, I know he gets possessed, but he still acts like one of those "anime rival" characters motivated by nothing more than a burning hatred of the protagonist and generally making a fool of himself so the player can feel righteous.

On Birthright... *shrug* he exists. He didn't do much that left an impression on me, just got possessed when it was narratively convenient but quickly got better each time. I kinda like that there is someone who doesn't immediately take to Corrin, but like Shinon in Tellius, the game makes it clear that he's in the wrong for this, so I'm not giving the game or him any credit for it.

I also can't say I'm terribly impressed with his character depth. It doesn't seem to go beyond "he has insecurities, so he acts like a jerk". I just don't respect people like that at all, nor find him a particularly well-executed version of that trope.