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Miking11

Three things I didn't enjoy about Fates

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Hey guys.

Right now, I'm at chapter 20 of Revelations, and I have three complaints about the three games so far.

1. As of right now, I just don't see the point of Revelations. All of the maps are gimmicky and repetitive, there are too many damn units being recruited at once (chapter 16 and 17 are the worst offenders), and the balance is simply horrendous (Nyx (lv. 9 Dark Mage) and Shura (lv. 10 Adventurer) joining you in the same chapter is hilarious). Story wise, it may make sense, but gameplay-wise, Revelations is a mess. I think it shouldn't have been a game by itself, instead, the developers should have worked harder on Birthright and Conquest (especially the former which had so many filler chapters). They could have added plot elements of Revelation as paralogues or as the final chapters of the game, kinda like Sacred Stones.

2. I don't like the fact that maps are re-used between the three games. It feels like a cheap quick cash-grab. The developers could have had different maps for the three games OR simply sell the whole thing as one game (with two paths).

3. Children are useless gimmicks, story-wise, they are simply not justified. They're only there because it worked well in Awakening, here, it feels so random and out of place.

Overall, I think that Fates shoud have been sold as one game with branching paths. What do you guys think? Do you agree with these points?

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No.

But to leave it as that is spam, so here's some elaboration:

- I think IS had a bunch of cool map ideas, then tried to put a story behind it. Some of them are legitimately awesome (Chapter 15 Conquest), while others. . .not so much. Some characters are criminally underleveled when they join, though (Laslow/Peri/Odin/Niles).

- I like the map reuse - it gives me a touch of nostalgia as I roast every last Mokushujin.

- Children work as a gameplay mechanic, but the in-game justification makes me shake my head.

Fates works like this, but it's hardly perfect. There's things they got right, and things that went horribly wrong, and I hope IS addresses the "horribly wrong" to make an even better game in the future.

EDIT: The only reason why you're not getting a warn from me, you above me, is because you beat me by four minutes (if you get warned by another mod, them's the breaks). While that IS technically spam, the way this topic is worded is asking for that kind of response. TC, you might want to think about what kinds of discussion you want in your topic, and phrase things accordingly.

Edited by eclipse

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Map reuse is to be expected considering that Fire Emblem Fates pretty much stays within the same setting.

Children characters: you can always ignore them since unlike in Awakening, their recruitment is optional. Also, aside from stat mods, they're not as strong as before, especially in the face of difficulty scaling in paralogues (children characters are more likely to die/be defeated before recruitment if paralogue is attempted lategame). Also, skill buying is a thing so children characters don't always overshadow their parents since in Awakening, many players largely replace the parent generation with the children characters due to their superior stat mods and skillsets.

Writing isn't always a strong point in Fire Emblem games (Fates', Awakening's, and Radiant Dawn's stories all have some form of criticism; very old Fire Emblem games have little-to-no characterization for the vast majority of the playable cast). Unit balance also isn't always perfect (Hana is stupidly fragile in Fates; many units in pre-Ch.5 portion of Awakening Lunatic+ are either complete garbage or support bots since it's Robin Emblem )

Fates is still fun but I think some of the mess stem from the fact that the developers threw so many of their best ideas in Awakening due to its being the potential final game in the series and had to pull stuff that made Awakening a seller into Fates so as to keep the new crowd that Awakening brought in.

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No.

But to leave it as that is spam, so here's some elaboration:

- I think IS had a bunch of cool map ideas, then tried to put a story behind it. Some of them are legitimately awesome (Chapter 15 Conquest), while others. . .not so much. Some characters are criminally underleveled when they join, though (Laslow/Peri/Odin/Niles).

- I like the map reuse - it gives me a touch of nostalgia as I roast every last Mokushujin.

- Children work as a gameplay mechanic, but the in-game justification makes me shake my head.

Fates works like this, but it's hardly perfect. There's things they got right, and things that went horribly wrong, and I hope IS addresses the "horribly wrong" to make an even better game in the future.

EDIT: The only reason why you're not getting a warn from me, you above me, is because you beat me by four minutes (if you get warned by another mod, them's the breaks). While that IS technically spam, the way this topic is worded is asking for that kind of response. TC, you might want to think about what kinds of discussion you want in your topic, and phrase things accordingly.

Thank you for your comment but I think my topic was perfectly worded. To quote myself:

"What do you guys think? Do you agree with these points?"

I would have agreed IF I had left out the first sentence. But as it stands, I think it was fine. But thank you for your advice anyway, will take it into account the next time I create a topic.

Also, don't be fooled by the fact that this is my first topic as a new user. I've been here since 2010-ish, I just created a new account because I wanted a fresh start (you might (or not) recognize this name: lilmik11),

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To be honest...

I think it would have hurt the company to sell it as "one game with branching paths".

Since you have overall a lot of game content for a 3DS, it means the game would have been around 70€, that is way too much for players who only want to try one version.

The reason it worked so well is because you could try one version, and then go to the other if you liked that. (and if you really liked that get into Revelations)

Revelations has quite the flaws, but I guess some players -like me I think- always like to have the option to be either against everyone or with everyone. Revelations proposed that for players left with this desire. Sure, it's not handled really well, but at least it's the "happy ending" option.

Maps being reused is obviously gonna happen. You fight in the same environments. While it is boring gameplay-wise, it's something that makes sense in the story. (while they somehow took different point of views, like Revelations' Chapter 8)

As for Children... They're the reward for getting an S pairing. They should have been better handled for sure, that is a fact. I don't technically like Children being there since they're often broken units with no real reason (time travel was BS in awakening, and Deeprealms are even more), but if they do it like FE4, why not. (though it's impossible because if people cry at a normal tragic death like Ryoma, they're bound to be devastated if you learn everyone flipping dies)

I think the inclusion of children is pretty hard there. Though since they got some people into the games, I'm okay as long as it doesn't make other leave. I can just ignore them.

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1. Your topic can be answered with a "yes" or "no", and I was quite tempted to leave it as "no". That's not how to do a discussion.

2. If you're a returning member, you should be familiar with the Code of Conduct. Within the CoC, there's something about making multiple accounts, and how that's very much against the rules. PM Tangerine ASAP, and explain why you felt that you had to create a new account, instead of using your old one.

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1 - I still haven't played all three routes so I can't really argue with you here on a solid basing, but I'm pretty satisfied with what Conquest has offered me so far and I feel as if had they "worked harder" on it, the game would come off as massive and dull. In my opinion, they've just put the right amount of work on it and I from what I've read about the other two routes, they do not diminish one another at all.

2 - Yeah, you're definitely not alone on this one; I've heard quite a few people feel the exactly same way, but I beg to differ. I very much enjoy the idea of replaying the same map with the entirely different perspective that is offered by each route. The way I see it, that alone is enough to keep it from feeling repetitive and boring, but to each its own.

3 - I'm forced to agree, but I see the children simply as extra content that I have to pay no mind at all if I don't want to. Still, I think it's a nice thing to have and honestly? I'm glad they brought this feature back from Awakening. It really wasn't introduced in Fates as smoothly as it was in Awakening, but one can hardly hold it as a con towards the game; doing so is really just grasping at straws.

Having said that, no; I do not agree with you.

Edited by Spirit in Black

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I agree that none of the 3 games feel quite finished, but to say that it should have only been 1 game greatly under-represents the amount of work put into the games. AKA: they put in a lot of work, just maybe not necessarily in the right areas.

Map reuse doesn't bother me. It would've been really nice if the maps were a bit bigger, but then each path used a slightly different section to make a sort of venn diagram around key parts of the map. That kind of thing would have taken far less effort than making 2 completely different maps but would have made for far more interesting reused maps.

The children and S supports between (nearly) every single character of opposite sex is a sore topic for a lot of people (myself included). However, since it did work out much better in Awakening I can totally understand why IS doesn't want to chase off the new fans that Awakening brought in. I just really feel that children characters should have been dlc. I'm gonna leave it at that before I start ranting about it lol.

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- I like the map reuse - it gives me a touch of nostalgia as I roast every last Mokushujin.

Yee! Roast all those Mokushujin with misty eyes!

To the OP, nah i dont agree. While kids are shoehorned, id rather them be like this than some even more BS plot contrivance. Revelations is actually a lot of fun and i love it being there. I dont have a beef with map reuse because of how much sense it makes. Only one seems to work the same way (Wind Tribe one), the others have different DV options and stuff.

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The reused maps were to be expected, and I'd even argue necessary, for a game whose whole shtick was about taking different paths; what better way to demonstrate differences than to show a new take on a place you've already been to before? Granted, some are better executed than others; the Rainbow Sage maps are boring in every single route and is only really there to drag out the plot and hand out exposition; it has nothing to do with the choice you made.

I think Revelation's biggest offense is simply existing, since it completely invalidates the other two paths story-wise. It's a lot less appealing to make a choice when you know two answers are wrong and the third one is right.

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I have to agree with you one Revelations. I don't see why it exists. It's nice to have all the characters (Even though you don't) but the story is utter balls. IMO, wose the Conquest, and that was a shit story. I feel like they could have easily fit in Anankos somewhere in both of the other paths without the need of a third, or just not including him at all as an entity and just as some God Garon worships. Like Thane said, I hate how invalidates the other endings. I only plan on playing it solely for completionism.

For the map thing, I don't mind it. I expected it to happen TBH and I like how some maps are used different. I also like how with the reusing f maps, we saw more, example, we saw the exterior of Macarath Palace in Conquest but the interior in Birthright. I just dislike the Rainbow Sage chapter.

As for the kids. I don't mind them gameplay wise, since they are strong and generally good units, but not enough so that they make all the others worthless. I just hate the explanation for them. It's so fucking stupid.

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Actually I'm rather fond of the map reuse.

It's very interesting to play on the same map, but under different conditions. It adds a lot to the strategy factor, actually.

Take Birthright Chapter 11 and Conquest Chapter 16.

The both take place on the same boat map, but they both work very differently. They feel like completely different maps.

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