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Azura and Corrin- (Spoilers)

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Speaking of which, what is the deal with [spoiler=Hidden Truths] Lilith being Corrin's sister? That's never brought up in the main story or any following DLC, so what was the point in writing that? It just makes her come across as very stupid (not to mention creepy, serving as her sibling's maid and then unofficial castle mascot) for not telling Corrin about Valla, along with the Awakening trio. In fact, I can just imagine Owain, Inigo and Severa sitting at the coronation after Conquest and ask themselves if they had forgotten something important, but I digress

Prob so that people MIGHT feel bad for them when they do their needless overdramatic act, thinking it wasnt pointless and totally make sense. But then that squash their establish past history, so nice patch up there IS. I love imagining how she plan to get herself injured so Corrin can litterally pick her up like a injured puppy.

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I'm going to be blunt here.

Azura and Corrin being cousins is one of the biggest reasons I will never pair these two together. Historical context be damned.

It's mildly irritating that the game is trying to not-so-subtly push the player into S-Ranking her as well.

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Honestly, relationships between cousins never really bothered me, so the two of the being cousins doesn't bother me as well.

Japan doesn't have a problem with cousin relationships as well, which is probably why the writers didn't mind making Azura and Corrin cousins.

But you know, when did cousin relationships started being considered taboo?

I wasn't like that before.

But people these days seem to think it's disgusting, especially in the USA.

Actually, why people in the USA are so against relationship between in the first place?

Did some scanal happened there? I'm genuinely curious.

Like I said before, I wasn't always like this.

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Honestly, relationships between cousins never really bothered me, so the two of the being cousins doesn't bother me as well.

Japan doesn't have a problem with cousin relationships as well, which is probably why the writers didn't mind making Azura and Corrin cousins.

But you know, when did cousin relationships started being considered taboo?

I wasn't like that before.

But people these days seem to think it's disgusting, especially in the USA.

Actually, why people in the USA are so against relationship between in the first place?

Did some scanal happened there? I'm genuinely curious.

Like I said before, I wasn't always like this.

People can react negatively to a lot of things even if it's a work of fiction. As far as I know about incest, it's mainly genetics and the possible abuse of trust that makes incest taboo and disgusting to them, not to mention that classic literature like some Shakespearean works and Oedipus Rex paints incest in a negative light.

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In a historical context, it wasn't uncommon for relatives to marry each other.

IS drew inspiration from European and Asian history, as they have discussed in their development videos (link 1, 2 and 3). Renaissance Europe, Feudal Japan - nobility and upper-class families often had arranged marriages so in their culture, it wasn't a huge (if not an) issue at all. It's just strange for a lot of us who never lived it, or know people who have experienced it (partially or fully).

I personally know people who have, so it's not an issue with me at all.

Even now, some families arrange marriages for their children. India is one of them, the caste system still being present. It is also present in China (having done research on arranged marriages for an assignment before), as families want them to marry well.

The difference here being that it isn't an arranged marriage. At the time, it was understandable why marriages were arranged -- the logic of keeping the royalty line, "pure" so to speak, and keeping the marriages pretty much strictly political rather than actually having emotional investments in them. In the case of Fire Emblem Fates, it even would make sense because you wouldn't want people going around having the ability to use dragon abilities that the royalty has, such as freezing rivers / bodies of water. Imagine if a group of brigands somehow managed to have the ability to freeze water and the standard civilian couldn't.

But that's not what's happening here. It's that your character and the player can choose to S rank these characters, and then the game has the Birthright children go through hoops to explain that they actually aren't related at all. Makes the whole point of "Birthright" completely pointless. Granted I haven't played it, but the fact that you're joining the Hoshians on nothing but a lie sounds pretty horrible. At least the Nohrian siblings flat out say "you're family despite blood." And marrying them isn't nearly as bad because you were raised knowing full well that they weren't your blood siblings. The biggest issue with Nohrian siblings is the fact that Corrin keeps referring to them as "brother" and "sister." Had (s)he not, it wouldn't have been so bad.

I'm going to be blunt here.

Azura and Corrin being cousins is one of the biggest reasons I will never pair these two together. Historical context be damned.

It's mildly irritating that the game is trying to not-so-subtly push the player into S-Ranking her as well.

Maybe I never noticed because I was a female Corin, but I was of the opinion that Azura was the secondary hero sort of thing they have seemed to like to do since Fire Emblem 7 where the character has quite a bit of dialogue and has almost as much at stake, if not more than the protagonist at moments.

Eliwood - Hector

Eirika - Ephraim

Ike - Titania (Radiant Dawn seems to replace Titania with Ranulf here).

Micaiah - Sothe

Chrom - Robin

With Chrom and Robin being the only one that kind of gets weird because after part 1 because the roles reverse. But outside of maybe Micaiah and Sothe, I never really felt there was much of a push for the hero to go with that sort of character. I suppose Awakening kind of mocks you for not doing it as a female with Lucina, but Robin justifiably and satisfyingly responds with irritation and quite a bit of animosity.

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The difference here being that it isn't an arranged marriage. At the time, it was understandable why marriages were arranged -- the logic of keeping the royalty line, "pure" so to speak, and keeping the marriages pretty much strictly political rather than actually having emotional investments in them. In the case of Fire Emblem Fates, it even would make sense because you wouldn't want people going around having the ability to use dragon abilities that the royalty has, such as freezing rivers / bodies of water. Imagine if a group of brigands somehow managed to have the ability to freeze water and the standard civilian couldn't.

I think he means that the historical context gives grounds for the people of Fateslandia to not really give a crap about marrying their cousins, especially if they didn't know they were cousins at the time. Their marriage may not have been arranged, but cousin marriage would have occurred enough to be seen as normal and for them not be bothered when they did find out (though it still doesn't excuse how nobody ever acknowledges it).

Maybe I never noticed because I was a female Corin, but I was of the opinion that Azura was the secondary hero sort of thing they have seemed to like to do since Fire Emblem 7 where the character has quite a bit of dialogue and has almost as much at stake, if not more than the protagonist at moments.

Eliwood - Hector

Eirika - Ephraim

Ike - Titania (Radiant Dawn seems to replace Titania with Ranulf here).

Micaiah - Sothe

Chrom - Robin

With Chrom and Robin being the only one that kind of gets weird because after part 1 because the roles reverse. But outside of maybe Micaiah and Sothe, I never really felt there was much of a push for the hero to go with that sort of character. I suppose Awakening kind of mocks you for not doing it as a female with Lucina, but Robin justifiably and satisfyingly responds with irritation and quite a bit of animosity.

No, you're right, she is the deuteragonist, but while she's not "pushed" in the veins of Chrom/Sumia, the devs did go out of their way to give her extra things none of the other girls got and include some shippy dialogue.

Edited by Abvora

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I think he means that the historical context gives grounds for the people of Fateslandia to not really give a crap about marrying their cousins, especially if they didn't know they were cousins at the time. Their marriage may not have been arranged, but cousin marriage would have occurred enough to be seen as normal and for them not be bothered when theydid find out (though it still doesn't excuse how nobody ever acknowledges it).

Which if they just acted like it didn't matter, that'd be considerably easier to swallow. As it stands, the characters go out of their way to ensure that they aren't really related, and then the game just kind of throws that on you.

Honestly though, the game does acknowledge it, just not in a way that really amounts to anything. And that's the problem with this plot, stuff is revealed, and nothing really comes out of it.

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Yes we agree, it's completely out of nowhere, it's bad, people don't compare it with FE4 because FE4 freaking did it right at every turns with no BS whatsoever.

And yes FE1 did it too-... Wait, what ? Hardin and Nyna are related ? How ? I didn't knew that !

I think it's more like it's surprise incest with Azura more than anything. Meanwhile the entire point of Birthright is Ryoma deceiving Corrin by pretending they're blood siblings.

And it is never ever developed or even pointed out. (Hoshido are the pure, innocent good guys remember ?)

Yaaaaaaaaaaay ! :D

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Honestly, relationships between cousins never really bothered me, so the two of the being cousins doesn't bother me as well.

Japan doesn't have a problem with cousin relationships as well, which is probably why the writers didn't mind making Azura and Corrin cousins.

But you know, when did cousin relationships started being considered taboo?

I wasn't like that before.

But people these days seem to think it's disgusting, especially in the USA.

Actually, why people in the USA are so against relationship between in the first place?

Did some scanal happened there? I'm genuinely curious.

Like I said before, I wasn't always like this.

18 states in the USA allow first cousin marriages (including California, Florida and New York, some of the highest population states [Cal = 40 mill, Flor = 20 mill, NY = 20 mill]).

However, since the USA allows for states to determine much of their own legislature (instead of all laws coming straight from the federal end) some states have criminal charges attached to marrying your first cousin (including Texas which has 27 million people all its lonesome).

The USA has a long and storied history with some states accepting some practices while other states outright condemn it (mostly divided by north and south, or "coastal states" versus "inner states"), which is why some Americans will balk at the idea of two cousins marrying (and even get very angry at the idea) while other Americans won't care.

Lastly, the USA is also known for its more prudish attitudes toward sex (when compared to European and Asian 1st world countries) most likely due to the fact that the USA was founded by many groups of devote faith. The stigma surrounding sex (typically seen in religious doctrines and writings) has thus translated into the American popular culture. The USA is okay with graphic violence, but the thought of side-boob is offensive and demeaning, apparently.

Which leads back to the cousin marriage issue. A lot of Americans aren't comfortable openly discussing sex, so some will be uncomfortable with anything outside the "normal" no matter the details (two consenting adults, etc.).

Overall, the USA is a huge place. Lots of Americans don't care. There are some who will be vocal about their distaste, but the country really does have two conscious halves when concerning matters such as this. >.>

Edited by Kakeyo

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But that's not what's happening here. It's that your character and the player can choose to S rank these characters, and then the game has the Birthright children go through hoops to explain that they actually aren't related at all. Makes the whole point of "Birthright" completely pointless. Granted I haven't played it, but the fact that you're joining the Hoshians on nothing but a lie sounds pretty horrible. At least the Nohrian siblings flat out say "you're family despite blood." And marrying them isn't nearly as bad because you were raised knowing full well that they weren't your blood siblings. The biggest issue with Nohrian siblings is the fact that Corrin keeps referring to them as "brother" and "sister." Had (s)he not, it wouldn't have been so bad.

Actually, in Birthright, Corrin didn't join Hoshido because the royals were his blood sibilings.

Corrin joind Hoshido for the sake of doing the right.

During Chapter 6, if Corrin sides with Hoshido, he never says it's because they are his blood family. He says that sides with Hoshido because he cannot stand Nohr's brutality anymore. Corrin even tries to get Xander to join him!

18 states in the USA allow first cousin marriages (including California, Florida and New York, some of the highest population states [Cal = 40 mill, Flor = 20 mill, NY = 20 mill]).

However, since the USA allows for states to determine much of their own legislature (instead of all laws coming straight from the federal end) some states have criminal charges attached to marrying your first cousin (including Texas which has 27 million people all its lonesome).

The USA has a long and storied history with some states accepting some practices while other states outright condemn it (mostly divided by north and south, or "coastal states" versus "inner states"), which is why some Americans will balk at the idea of two cousins marrying (and even get very angry at the idea) while other Americans won't care.

Lastly, the USA is also known for its more prudish attitudes toward sex (when compared to European and Asian 1st world countries) most likely due to the fact that the USA was founded by many groups of devote faith. The stigma surrounding sex (typically seen in religious doctrines and writings) has thus translated into the American popular culture. The USA is okay with graphic violence, but the thought of side-boob is offensive and demeaning, apparently.

Which leads back to the cousin marriage issue. A lot of Americans aren't comfortable openly discussing sex, so some will be uncomfortable with anything outside the "normal" no matter the details (two consenting adults, etc.).

Overall, the USA is a huge place. Lots of Americans don't care. There are some who will be vocal about their distaste, but the country really does have two conscious halves when concerning matters such as this. >.>

Interesting...

I tought that could be the reason, and it makes a lot of sense, but it's still strange how the condem cousin marriage with such fervor.

Edited by Water Mage

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Speaking of which, what is the deal with [spoiler=Hidden Truths] Lilith being Corrin's sister? That's never brought up in the main story or any following DLC, so what was the point in writing that? It just makes her come across as very stupid (not to mention creepy, serving as her sibling's maid and then unofficial castle mascot) for not telling Corrin about Valla, along with the Awakening trio. In fact, I can just imagine Owain, Inigo and Severa sitting at the coronation after Conquest and ask themselves if they had forgotten something important, but I digress

Personal maid didn't really creep me out but

I assume they did that to make us sad.

tfw IS is iago

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I friggin called it in my head. The one main character who actually is related to you is from neither kingdom. Pretty Ironic!!

When she disappears in Birthright, I was like "BYE"

Edited by ChocolaChao

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Concerning Lilith.

She personally admits to wanting to keep everything about Anankos a secret to respect her father, who himself wanted Corrin to know nothing about him because of the crimes he has commited. She says as much in Hidden Truths. She will never tell Corrin about Anankos and will instead help them on their journey like Astral Dragons are supposed to do. Astral Dragons are meant to guide travelers in the Astral Plane.

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I think he means that the historical context gives grounds for the people of Fateslandia to not really give a crap about marrying their cousins, especially if they didn't know they were cousins at the time. Their marriage may not have been arranged, but cousin marriage would have occurred enough to be seen as normal and for them not be bothered when they did find out (though it still doesn't excuse how nobody ever acknowledges it).

Yeap, Abvora's pretty much summed up my thoughts.

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