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Nym

The reason why Flora and Felicia were in Nohr

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So, Flora and Felicia, 2 twins maids, chieftain's daughters, one being cold toward you (at least at the start of the game) and the other one being very loyal and cheerful.

We don't really know much of their backstory through the game, only in chapter 8 and support convos.

For this reason, we believe that Flora and Felicia are hostages, for the only purpose of stopping a rebellion from the Ice village.

However, I don't think it's the case, they are not hostages, they are spies.

Here's why (there's some spoilers):

Reason #1: Anankos, Garon AND Iago don't know that they are the chieftain's daughters.

So you rejoined your Nohr siblings and Father asked Anankos what to do with you. Fortunately for you, you just have to stop the Ice rebellion in order to become Garon's child again.

Wait, what? Aren't Flora and Felicia hostages for the whole purpose of preventing this from happening? Then explain why Anankos is asking this. Sure, Anankos may not know them but what about Garon? I mean, the monster, not the real one since this is the monster that we see in the cutscene when we are a baby, right? Does Anankos forgot to put a brain inside his puppet? But Iago, if he knew Leo since he was a child, he would sure as hell remember that Flora and Felicia would be hostages.

Reason #2: Flora's arrival before chapter 8 makes more sense if she's actually a spy.

This is something that bothered me when I watched the conversation before chapter 8 for the first time and second time. Remember, you just got saved by Kilma (btw, if you play as a female avatar, I think Jakob leaving you is totaly out of the character or even the fact that he knows where is the Ice village is strange) and after he gave you tea, he said this:

''Ah, it looks like my daughter has finally arrived. Allow me to introduce you...''

Ok, explain to me how in the world that he knew that was on her way to the Ice village, she was a HOSTAGE and according to Flora herself (more on that below), she didn't see him for YEARS.

There we have 2 differents cases: if Felicia is here or if Jakob is here.

If Felicia is here, there's no problem since now, both ''hostages'' are in the village.

On the other hand, there something fishy if Jakob is here. Jakob asks to Flora if Felicia came as well but Flora said that she didn't.

Again, why? That would the perfect moment since Milady (Avatar) is not here, Jakob too and Guntler is ''dead'' and there's only generics soldiers for stopping you from leaving the citadel and you can both fight very well and heal each other.

Reason #3: Flora gave you false informations.

Flora, before you fight her in both Conquest and Revelations, is very cold toward you. Yes, she respects you since you are her liege but you are still her enemy. In chapter 8, Flora gave you informations if you send either Felicia or Jacob against her.

If you send Felicia, we don't have much information but there's something wrong. Several people (including myself) though that Felicia didn't know that she was a hostage at all since in the battle conversation with Flora, she doesn't understand of what Flora is talking about.

However, this is false, in her A support conversation with Niles, Niles believes that she's a hostage and she responds by saying this:

''I-I don't think of myself that way...''

I know what you're thinking: ''Well, she just don't think that she's a hostage.''

Well, just after, Niles said she wasn't raised in any warm arms and she said:

''Ahaha, you're right, the Ice Trible homeland isn't warm at all.''

I don't know if that was a poor attempt of making a joke by Felicia but by saying that, Niles would have realized that she's just lied to him.

If you send Jakob, Flora said that they were taken as hostages since they were children from preventing the rebellion from happening.

It's a lie too. In Felicia and Flora B support, we learn that their father trained them for combat since they were children.

So, why are they spies? Here what happened:

- Kilma wanted to freed his village from Nohr's influence but he needs to wait the right time to attack, when Garon will send most of his army away from Nohr.

- Then, he had the great idea of sending a spy so he can informs him when Garon sends his army.

- Of course, the task is very dangerous because anyone could be executed.

- He had the genious idea to send both his daughters as spies by disguising them as maids (they might be teenagers at that time)

- When the war started between Hoshido and Nohr, Flora informed Kilas so he could starts the rebellion.

Keep in mind, this may be not true because Japenese conversations could be different but, I think it's still a solid theory.

Edited by Nym

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Huh. An interesting theory, with snippets from in-game that I did not bother to analyze.

Particularly about when I thought the two were political hostages but the Ice Rebellion still happened; I hadn't thought about it like that for some reason. If it were true, it would paint Kilma in an interesting light as he is essentially sacrificing his children to apparently be from under Garon's influence.

I don't care if this true or not, I am adopting it for headcanon/fanfiction purposes.

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This theory is very interesting and cool!

Question though, just like how Kamui/Corrin was conditioned to forget Silas, could Felicia have been conditioned to forget she was a hostage? No offense to Felicia, but Flora seems like the more competent twin of the two so it'd make sense in a way for her to either remember or have her be the one trusted with the information by her father.

Also, where did it say that fake Garon, Iago, etc didn't know they were Kilma's daughters?

Edit: Nevermind. I reread your post and see what you're saying now. It's a very good point and the only reason I can think of is that Kilma just finally got fed up with Garon's rule that he now decides to rebel for the good of his tribe

Edited by Morgan

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I'm more inclined to think that this is just IS being inconsistent writers. Wouldn't be the first time they shown incompetence.

Snark aside, reason 1, you forgot that they sent Corrin on a suicide mission telling him to stop the rebellion. They just wanted Corrin dead. Plus Anankos hates humans, so him just having an army sent to kill the tribe after Corrin died wouldn't surprise me.

Reason 3, it's not like the game hasn't been vague about age before. It's possible they were trained since they were five and then taken hostage at eleven. Both ages would qualify as being children. So this isn't an inconsistency, it's just an uncertainty. Plus I failed to see how that support is any indication of Felicia lying. As said before, she could have been raised in her homeland for over five years before being taken hostage.

Overall, your theory isn't that credible. Your spelling and grammar errors doesn't make it any easier to take seriously. EX. You should have used aren't in your 8th sentence not are. You forgot the s in the send before "either Felicia or Jacob" , Jakob is spelt with a k in the game. This, along with you forgetting to take the stuff I mentioned above into consideration, makes you come off as sloppy and harder to take your theory seriously.

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I'm more inclined to think that this is just IS being inconsistent writers. Wouldn't be the first time they shown incompetence.

Snark aside, reason 1, you forgot that they sent Corrin on a suicide mission telling him to stop the rebellion. They just wanted Corrin dead. Plus Anankos hates humans, so him just having an army sent to kill the tribe after Corrin died wouldn't surprise me.

Reason 3, it's not like the game hasn't been vague about age before. It's possible they were trained since they were five and then taken hostage at eleven. Both ages would qualify as being children. So this isn't an inconsistency, it's just an uncertainty. Plus I failed to see how that support is any indication of Felicia lying. As said before, she could have been raised in her homeland for over five years before being taken hostage.

Overall, your theory isn't that credible. Your spelling and grammar errors doesn't make it any easier to take seriously. EX. You should have used aren't in your 8th sentence not are. You forgot the s in the send before "either Felicia or Jacob" , Jakob is spelt with a k in the game. This, along with you forgetting to take the stuff I mentioned above into consideration, makes you come off as sloppy and harder to take your theory seriously.

LOL.

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Huh. An interesting theory, with snippets from in-game that I did not bother to analyze.

Particularly about when I thought the two were political hostages but the Ice Rebellion still happened; I hadn't thought about it like that for some reason. If it were true, it would paint Kilma in an interesting light as he is essentially sacrificing his children to apparently be from under Garon's influence.

I don't care if this true or not, I am adopting it for headcanon/fanfiction purposes.

​You welcome, xD.

I'm more inclined to think that this is just IS being inconsistent writers. Wouldn't be the first time they shown incompetence.

Snark aside, reason 1, you forgot that they sent Corrin on a suicide mission telling him to stop the rebellion. They just wanted Corrin dead. Plus Anankos hates humans, so him just having an army sent to kill the tribe after Corrin died wouldn't surprise me.

Reason 3, it's not like the game hasn't been vague about age before. It's possible they were trained since they were five and then taken hostage at eleven. Both ages would qualify as being children. So this isn't an inconsistency, it's just an uncertainty. Plus I failed to see how that support is any indication of Felicia lying. As said before, she could have been raised in her homeland for over five years before being taken hostage.

Overall, your theory isn't that credible. Your spelling and grammar errors doesn't make it any easier to take seriously. EX. You should have used aren't in your 8th sentence not are. You forgot the s in the send before "either Felicia or Jacob" , Jakob is spelt with a k in the game. This, along with you forgetting to take the stuff I mentioned above into consideration, makes you come off as sloppy and harder to take your theory seriously.

First of all, do you really need to be rude?

Secondly, I NEVER said that was true.

Thirdly, I worked with proofs from only support convos or in game informations, of course my theory could not be credible.

Finally, I'm not a english speaker, would be cool if you think twice before writting, thank you.

​ ​

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​You welcome, xD.

First of all, do you really need to be rude?

Secondly, I NEVER said that was true.

Thirdly, I worked with proofs from only support convos or in game informations, of course my theory could not be credible.

Finally, I'm not a english speaker, would be cool if you think twice before writting, thank you.

​ ​

I honestly think he was kidding.

Because, ironically, his whole paragraph had several grammatical errors, as well.

Edited by SaiSymbolic

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Secondly, I NEVER said that was true.

​ ​

However, I don't think it's the case, they are not hostages, they are spies.

If by the first quote you meant that you never said that your theory was true, just posting your theory implies you think there's some credibility in it, why else would you try to explain and support it? The second quote supports the idea that you do think there's some truth in it.

And if you're talking about something else, then please specify what you meant.

Thirdly, I worked with proofs from only support convos or in game informations, of course my theory could not be credible.

​ ​

Then wouldn't it make more sense to call this fanfiction, not a theory? Plus if this wasn't credible, then why go to the effort of acting as it was by listing stuff from the game to support it? Doing so implies you think it's credible as I stated above.

Finally, I'm not a english speaker, would be cool if you think twice before writting, thank you.

​ ​

If you aren't told you made a mistake when you do, then how do you expect to improve your English? Though I will apologize for letting it affect my judgement.

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I'm more inclined to think that this is just IS being inconsistent writers. Wouldn't be the first time they shown incompetence.

Snark aside, reason 1, you forgot that they sent Corrin on a suicide mission telling him to stop the rebellion. They just wanted Corrin dead. Plus Anankos hates humans, so him just having an army sent to kill the tribe after Corrin died wouldn't surprise me.

Reason 3, it's not like the game hasn't been vague about age before. It's possible they were trained since they were five and then taken hostage at eleven. Both ages would qualify as being children. So this isn't an inconsistency, it's just an uncertainty. Plus I failed to see how that support is any indication of Felicia lying. As said before, she could have been raised in her homeland for over five years before being taken hostage.

Overall, your theory isn't that credible. Your spelling and grammar errors doesn't make it any easier to take seriously. EX. You should have used aren't in your 8th sentence not are. You forgot the s in the send before "either Felicia or Jacob" , Jakob is spelt with a k in the game. This, along with you forgetting to take the stuff I mentioned above into consideration, makes you come off as sloppy and harder to take your theory seriously.

You should make sure your own house is in order before you try to give someone else advice.

Especially since language is fluid, and a message can easily be deciphered with imperfect grammar unless it's just purely incoherent.

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I admit my grammar isn't perfect I and I apologize for calling Nym out on it.

Now can we get back to discussing his theory and my rebuttals to it please?

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Overall, your theory isn't that credible. Your spelling and grammar errors doesn't make it any easier to take seriously. EX. You should have used aren't in your 8th sentence not are. You forgot the s in the send before "either Felicia or Jacob" , Jakob is spelt with a k in the game. This, along with you forgetting to take the stuff I mentioned above into consideration, makes you come off as sloppy and harder to take your theory seriously.

don't be such a dick

_______________

anyways this is one of the things I like about Fates's story

there are a lot of little things that are never clarified and are up to interpratation, like the unknown man who visited the rainbow sage.

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If by the first quote you meant that you never said that your theory was true, just posting your theory implies you think there's some credibility in it, why else would you try to explain and support it? The second quote supports the idea that you do think there's some truth in it.

And if you're talking about something else, then please specify what you meant.

Then wouldn't it make more sense to call this fanfiction, not a theory? Plus if this wasn't credible, then why go to the effort of acting as it was by listing stuff from the game to support it? Doing so implies you think it's credible as I stated above.

If you aren't told you made a mistake when you do, then how do you expect to improve your English? Though I will apologize for letting it affect my judgement.

A theory is a theory or a hypothesis, if you prefer. It may be true or not, it all depends on proofs. Of course, posting my theory here means that I would like it to be true.

There is no canon proofs which is why I say it may not be credible (because it's a theory, again), there is not a single time in the main game when we have any hints about their situation, only with conversations before and in the battle or in support convos.

That's not what I meant, I know that I make a ton of mistakes, I just don't know where while I'm writing. I always try to find mistakes in my posts after I'm finished writting, even several hours after the post was made.

It's ok.

Edited by Nym

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I thought they were in Nhor because...

They live in Nhor.

I'm not certain ya'll understand how political hostage taking works...or just how common the system was (read: literally every king ever did this shit) honestly the only nonsensical part of this whole mess is... the ice tribe rebelling because Darth Garon released them without cordially inviting another member of the tribes ruling family into arms reach for a top tier education in a field relevant according to their station among the nobility, where they would be treated with all due respect and just so happen to be in arms reach.

Edited by joshcja

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Reason #1: Anankos, Garon AND Iago don't know that they are the chieftain's daughters.

Wrong. Of course Garon knows, and of course Anankos knows. Why exactly do you think they send Corrin to deal with the Ice tribe rebellion specifically? Why do you think Corrin is forced to fight Flora in every single route? Because it's all set up by Garon/Anankos. Garon/Anankos want Corrin to suffer, and what better way to do that than force Corrin to fight against someone they were (or at least thinks they were) very close to? Hell, in Birthright, the first thing Garon does when Corrin defects to Hoshido is send a different childhood friend after him (Silas.) It fits his MO.

Reason #2: Flora's arrival before chapter 8 makes more sense if she's actually a spy.

She arrives earlier than you in chapter 8 because she left earlier than you did. She escaped the fortress not long after you head for the Bottomless Canyon. As for why she would escape when Felicia is still in danger...

[spoiler=Felicia and Jakob My Castle join lines]Felicia: "Lady Corrin! I'm so glad you're safe! When I heard that you'd gone missing,\nI couldn't think about anything else! I've been tracking you down ever since, through the astral whosits! It wasn't easy, but I made it here and I want to fight!"

Jakob: "Lord Corrin, it's truly splendid to see you are doing well! When word reached us that you had\ngone missing, I could not rest. Tracking nobles across dimensional barriers was a new item for my résumé... But I am undoubtedly richer for it. Now that I am here, I would to like fight at your side."

From this you can surmise that as soon as news reached the Citadel that Corrin and Gunter went MIA, whoever was left behind immediately escaped the fortress to go search for Corrin. With Gunter and Corrin missing, and both Felicia and Jakob at the border searching for their whereabouts, this would leave Flora at the fortress alone. With Felicia out of harm's way and no one left at the Citadel that she cares about, Flora decides it's now or never and escapes back to her village, enabling them to challenge Garon's rule and rebel.

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I thought they were in Nhor because...

They live in Nhor.

I'm not certain ya'll understand how political hostage taking works...or just how common the system was (read: literally every king ever did this shit) honestly the only nonsensical part of this whole mess is... the ice tribe rebelling because Darth Garon released them without cordially inviting another member of the tribes ruling family into arms reach for a top tier education in a field relevant according to their station among the nobility, where they would be treated with all due respect and just so happen to be in arms reach.

Garon is a big poopy face who had a kidnapped prince/princess be fed prison gruel. I doubt he treated his prisoners very well. It was only through Best Grandpa's efforts that Corrin's standard of living began improving, I imagine it was the same for Felicia and Flora.

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Garon is a big poopy face who had a kidnapped prince/princess be fed prison gruel. I doubt he treated his prisoners very well. It was only through Best Grandpa's efforts that Corrin's standard of living began improving, I imagine it was the same for Felicia and Flora.

Man Felecia managed to keep employment.

At all.

That's some pretty magnanimous shit.

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Felicia probably worried a lot about being kicked out for being incompetent, at which point Flora would roll her eyes and resist the urge to reply, "They won't fire us, we're hostages, you dumbass."

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Felicia probably worried a lot about being kicked out for being incompetent, at which point Flora would roll her eyes and resist the urge to reply, "They won't fire us, we're hostages, you dumbass."

Shrug.

Garon only needed one of them.

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Speaking of Felicia and her incompetentness, i love how Felicia and Jakob's in story desciption is completely fucking backwards with their gameplay strength

Really how in the living fuck are we supposed to believe Jakob is a good butler when he's such a shitty butler to the point that his offspring gets hurt by his incompetence as a butler

Also Garon would totally fire Flora if she doesn't fire herself

Can't resist

Edited by JSND

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Shrug.

Garon only needed one of them.

Two is better than one and is a useful insurance policy in case one of them escaped.

Plus, anything stupid Garon did could probably be explained by the fact that he's controlled by a bat shit crazy dragon.

A theory is a theory or a hypothesis, if you prefer. It may be true or not, it all depends on proofs. Of course, posting my theory here means that I would like it to be true.

There is no canon proofs which is why I say it may not be credible (because it's a theory, again), there is not a single time in the main game when we have any hints about their situation, only with conversations before and in the battle or in support convos.

That's not what I meant, I know that I make a ton of mistakes, I just don't know where while I'm writting. I always try to find mitakes in my posts after I'm finished writting, even several hours after the post was made.

It's ok.

Fair enough and again, I'm sorry. I think part of why this spat happened is because you and I have different connotations for the word theory.

And if you're still looking for mistakes, in the third line of your post, you misspelled writing as writting, and mistakes as mitakes. Hope that helps.

Edited by RedRob

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Reason #1: Anankos, Garon AND Iago don't know that they are the chieftain's daughters.

Wrong. Of course Garon knows, and of course Anankos knows. Why exactly do you think they send Corrin to deal with the Ice tribe rebellion specifically? Why do you think Corrin is forced to fight Flora in every single route? Because it's all set up by Garon/Anankos. Garon/Anankos want Corrin to suffer, and what better way to do that than force Corrin to fight against someone they were (or at least thinks they were) very close to? Hell, in Birthright, the first thing Garon does when Corrin defects to Hoshido is send a different childhood friend after him (Silas.) It fits his MO.

Reason #2: Flora's arrival before chapter 8 makes more sense if she's actually a spy.

She arrives earlier than you in chapter 8 because she left earlier than you did. She escaped the fortress not long after you head for the Bottomless Canyon. As for why she would escape when Felicia is still in danger...

[spoiler=Felicia and Jakob My Castle join lines]Felicia: "Lady Corrin! I'm so glad you're safe! When I heard that you'd gone missing,\nI couldn't think about anything else! I've been tracking you down ever since, through the astral whosits! It wasn't easy, but I made it here and I want to fight!"

Jakob: "Lord Corrin, it's truly splendid to see you are doing well! When word reached us that you had\ngone missing, I could not rest. Tracking nobles across dimensional barriers was a new item for my résumé... But I am undoubtedly richer for it. Now that I am here, I would to like fight at your side."

From this you can surmise that as soon as news reached the Citadel that Corrin and Gunter went MIA, whoever was left behind immediately escaped the fortress to go search for Corrin. With Gunter and Corrin missing, and both Felicia and Jakob at the border searching for their whereabouts, this would leave Flora at the fortress alone. With Felicia out of harm's way and no one left at the Citadel that she cares about, Flora decides it's now or never and escapes back to her village, enabling them to challenge Garon's rule and rebel.

About reason#1, I completely forgot about this (woops) but what about the Nohr siblings? I mean, they surely know the twins, right?

However, about reason#2, even she arrives earlier, that doesnt explain how she escaped the citadel if she's a hostage.

What you say about Felicia searching for the Avatar is true but it could also make my theory true.

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She escaped because she was planning an escape for quite some time. She was just biding her time for the right opportunity, and that opportunity came with everyone else leaving the fortress.

Edited by Ryas

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