Do you buy Kaze's reason for joining Corrin in Conquest?

[Moblin Major General]

It's official: Kaze contracted Stockholm Syndrome. In fact, I think everybody in this game does.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Hylian Air Force

[Loki Laufeyson]

Once you see Kaze's supports it makes more sense.

Not really. Even if he was loyal to Corn for that reason, why is it overriding his loyalty to his homeland and brother? There really isnt a viable reason for Kaze to remain in Nohr.

I could give him a stretch for the chapter 11 join reason but staying past 17 or so without extensive supports and extra shit you do to make him stay, not so much

This so much. Kaze isnt a bad character by any means, but how the narrative handles him here, is fucking bullshit. Same is said on BR if you dont have an A support with him. Considering that event has nothing to do with the support itself. The story would have been cooler in Conquest, if Kaze left you when facing Saizo. Remember Jill in PoR? Yeah...kinda like that. (if you didnt have a certain support level with either Mist or Lethe, Jill, if fielded on the Talrega chapter, would actually defect if she encountered particular enemies.)

[Sunwoo]

It's one of the worst pieces of writing in the entire game. A guy who's been trained to be loyal all his life - and genuinely is loyal, liked, respected and has no trouble with his country, its people or his fellow soldiers - abandons everything because the guy who went back to the nation that attacked Hoshido unprovoked makes a vague promise on stopping the war efficiently. He then doesn't raise any objections when Corrin goes on his murder spree and invades Hoshido - Suzukaze wasn't privy to the plan, so he just went along with killing people.

Then there's the issue that we're supposed to believe Corrin and Azura are acting sneaky and only pretend to be loyal to Garon, yet they walk around with the same ninja who Garon thought was dead. This is never brought up, and I can only assume the writers forgot about that part.

I can't take Suzukaze seriously as a character because of this, and it shows just how much mental gymnastics you have to do to accept this game's (lack of) logic.

Yeah, I have to agree with the points that Thane brings up. If Kaze expressed any discontent for Hoshido at all, any problems with his family, then it would have made sense. What you have, instead, is Kaze feeling so guilty about Kamui that he's throwing away everything else. He is literally throwing away his family, his country, everything that he has just for Kamui. And regardless of whether Kamui spared his life or not, that just comes off as bullshit to throw away EVERYTHING YOU HAVE just for this one person.

[RedRob]

I agree with the majority of people here. Kaze had really flimsy reasons to join Corrin, and is largely ignored by the story.

Like for other plot contrivances, I came up with an alternative, which involved a lot of backstory changes, like Garon only killed Sumeragi in a fit of rage and despair when he declined to trade their crops to Nohr, and Hoshido is on paper led by Ryouma, not Mikoto, but he's for all intents and purposes, a puppet-king for corrupt officials who want to destroy Nohr and lie to him about political affairs and such to get away with it. Oh, and there's deflation for crop prices due to overabundance. In this setting, Kaze is sent to act as a spy in Nohr, on what he believes to be Ryouma's orders, and to report back with info on military targets. While in Nohr, disguised as a war refugee, he begins to sympathize with the Nohrians, realizing that they only started the war out of necessity, not aggression. Seeing that both sides are suffering from an unnecessary war, and knowing that opening trade with Nohr would help with the deflation back home, he sends a letter to Ryouma, begging him to negotiate a treaty with Nohr and end the war. The letter is however instead received by the officials, and fearing he might turn traitor, sends an assassin after him. But the assassin fails, and is killed by Kaze, who believing he has been abandoned by his country, offers his loyalty, and knowledge of Hoshido's inner workings, to Garon, seeking vengeance.

Is this better set-up for Kaze joining Nohr? Or do I need to improve on my writing skills?

EDIT: I should clarify that Kaze wasn't there when Corrin was kidnapped in this version and that this all happens before the "game" begins.

Edited April 16, 2016 by RedRob

[Pixelman]

Is this better set-up for Kaze joining Nohr? Or do I need to improve on my writing skills?

It's certainly better than what we got, lol

Edited April 16, 2016 by Pixelman

[NekoKnight]

I agree with the majority of people here. Kaze had really flimsy reasons to join Corrin, and is largely ignored by the story.

Like for other plot contrivances, I came up with an alternative, which involved a lot of backstory changes, like Garon only killed Sumeragi in a fit of rage and despair when he declined to trade their crops to Nohr, and Hoshido is on paper led by Ryouma, not Mikoto, but he's for all intents and purposes, a puppet-king for corrupt officials who want to destroy Nohr and lie to him about political affairs and such to get away with it. Oh, and there's deflation for crop prices due to overabundance. In this setting, Kaze is sent to act as a spy in Nohr, on what he believes to be Ryouma's orders, and to report back with info on military targets. While in Nohr, disguised as a war refugee, he begins to sympathize with the Nohrians, realizing that they only started the war out of necessity, not aggression. Seeing that both sides are suffering from an unnecessary war, and knowing that opening trade with Nohr would help with the deflation back home, he sends a letter to Ryouma, begging him to negotiate a treaty with Nohr and end the war. The letter is however instead received by the officials, and fearing he might turn traitor, sends an assassin after him. But the assassin fails, and is killed by Kaze, who believing he has been abandoned by his country, offers his loyalty, and knowledge of Hoshido's inner workings, to Garon, seeking vengeance.

Is this better set-up for Kaze joining Nohr? Or do I need to improve on my writing skills?

EDIT: I should clarify that Kaze wasn't there when Corrin was kidnapped in this version and that this all happens before the "game" begins.

I like the idea of corrupt Hoshidan officials maligning him for sympathizing with Nohr. I don't think Suzukaze should ally with Nohr in order to seek vengeance, however. That would be really ooc.

[Captain Karnage]

at first no

after reading his supports withthe avatar, yes

[RedRob]

I like the idea of corrupt Hoshidan officials maligning him for sympathizing with Nohr. I don't think Suzukaze should ally with Nohr in order to seek vengeance, however. That would be really ooc.

Well, I did once plan to have Asugi be the assassin, but I was afraid that might be overdoing it. I also planned this out in more detail, but this thread was about his reasons for joining Nohr, not for me to post my fanfic, so I decided to give a general idea instead. Plus, I had some second thoughts about those details, as I wrote the post. What I originally planned was for the murder attempt to happen in his home, and reported by his neighbors as a disturbance or just have it overheard by some random patrolling guard. Kaze would then be arrested, and brought before a court for charges of espionage, with Garon as the judge. In despair over his family's betrayal, he tells Garon all about his assignment, hoping to get the death penalty. Garon, however, due to the Concubine Wars, sympathizes with Kaze, understanding how it feels to see family members trying to kill each other. He then offers Kaze to join Nohr. Kaze, believing he had no where else to go, accepts.

That last part was what I actually had in mind, but I was afraid of derailing the thread if the post was any longer. Like I said, this thread was about his reasons for joining Nohr, not for me to post my fanfic.

Edited April 16, 2016 by RedRob

[Djing]

No I got it for free.

[Sentacotus]

Not really. Even if he was loyal to Corn for that reason, why is it overriding his loyalty to his homeland and brother? There really isnt a viable reason for Kaze to remain in Nohr.

Well apparently it overrides his loyalty to his homeland and brother to the extent that he's wanting to throw away his life for Corrin (assuming you don't have A support in Birthright). I mean the guy did have a strong sense of guilt for failing to protect Corrin and it also seems to me that him and Saizo don't exactly get along much in the first place. The biggest thing I think the whole Kaze joining Corrin in the Nohr path has going against it is he's essentially joining the guys who captured and tried to have him killed in the beginning (then again Corrin did spare him so I guess that has that going for it).

Either way I like having my OP speed ninja in Conquest.

Edited April 16, 2016 by LordTaco42

[HylianTiki]

I love how it plays out when you play Conquest!

It's the reason why I decided to marry him.

It's like

He's prisoner of war, about to die, yet the person who is supposed to kill him refuses.

I do not understand his guilt though. It's like you ssid, it was a good idea but poorly executed simoly because of how young they were. I always imagine Kamui having been like 3-5 when they wee taken, If Kaze was old enough to understand he was in service to your family, but is still relatively you g when you meet, he was probably 7 or 8. It's hard for me to believe that a child that age could understand and blame themselves so hard.

That aside, why was Kamui there in tbe first place? Why were any of the "children" there?

[Abysswalker25]

Eh, it was random but I can't complain. I like Kaze. And after his supports, I understand him better. Of course, not everyone will like the explanation. But that logic applies to a lot of fates in general.

[Alazen]

The issue of Kaze sticking with Corrin to the point of helping him steamroll Hoshido is really an extension of how Conquest doesn't vilify Corrin. Even though he not only fights on the ''foul'' side, but actually works a plot that has Hoshido crushed.

Conquest tries to frame Corrin as this paragon raised in a dark, corrupt, land. Since Kaze serves as one of his sidekicks our green shinobi can't be portrayed as being an ''evil'' or shady character, and since Fates also goes with Hoshido dindu nuffin he can't really do so out of a grudge against the nation or doubts about its policies. Conquest doesn't have Kaze seriously questioned for his allegiance. He doesn't even shed a tear when his brother kicks the bucket.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Alazen

[BruceLee]

I am extremely disappointed in the writers of Fates, like holy shit how can it be so bad?

If the writers don't take Kaze's character seriously why should i?

[Zerosabers]

Not really but why should I care? I need that green ninja for his hidden weapons.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Zerosabers

[Abysswalker25]

I am extremely disappointed in the writers of Fates, like holy shit how can it be so bad?

If the writers don't take Kaze's character seriously why should i?

Christ, you make it sound like the writers killed your dog.

Not really but why should I care? I need that green ninja for his hidden weapons.

This is the best opinion about Kaze, honestly.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Abysswalker25

[BruceLee]

Christ, you make it sound like the writers killed your dog.

This is the best opinion about Kaze, honestly.

I'm sorry did i hurt your feelings?

[Thane]

This is the best opinion about Kaze, honestly.

The best opinion about a plot point is to not care about the story?

[Dark Holy Elf]

Kaze is a character and a unit, not a plot point. You can absolutely care about characters/units and not their role in the story. I mean, that's how I feel about Azama, or Arthur.

Back on topic, while I feel that Kaze's reasons for changing sides are well-justified (certainly moreso than many previous FE turncoats), I certainly agree that he should have voiced objections thereafter, like Jill does in both PoR and RD, and I definitely think there was a missed opportunity to do something involving "A support or he'll leave again" like his Birthright self (only it would actually make sense!).

[saisymbolic]

I'm still curious as to why that thought it a good idea to add that little tidbit during BR.

If you don't support him to A/S, he dies.

What was the point of that? Atoning for his past failures? Why was it even included? Was I supposed to feel bad about it or something? Why is it just Kaze? Why didn't they put that in Conquest instead? Did him doing that even tie into the main story? Did they talk about again during the story? Why is this here? As a "consequence" of you actions?

Honestly, it reminds me of when

Nanako dies in Persona 4.

It was unnecessary. It punishes you for not knowing ahead of time. How was I supposed to know that doing that certain thing would end up like that? How is a person dying tied into not doing one thing and doing another? WTF?

/silly rant over

[Thane]

Nanako dies in Persona 4.

It was unnecessary. It punishes you for not knowing ahead of time. How was I supposed to know that doing that certain thing would end up like that? How is a person dying tied into not doing one thing and doing another? WTF?

Woah there, I know it's a controversial topic in the Persona fandom, but let's not pretend it's similar in any way! What you mentioned is meant to drive home the theme of the game, since choosing the easy way out leads to one of the bad ends. You could argue over how well it was executed, but it has a point - Suzukaze dies and is immediately forgotten about afterwards because he couldn't see an exploing crystal due to not being Corrin's best friend.

[saisymbolic]

Woah there, I know it's a controversial topic in the Persona fandom, but let's not pretend it's similar in any way! What you mentioned is meant to drive home the theme of the game, since choosing the easy way out leads to one of the bad ends. You could argue over how well it was executed, but it has a point - Suzukaze dies and is immediately forgotten about afterwards because he couldn't see an exploing crystal due to not being Corrin's best friend.

I have my qualms about it but all right.

No one cared because he was a loner, anyways.

Who can guess the game reference? :D

[Ebony]

I have my qualms about it but all right.

No one cared because he was a loner, anyways.

Who can guess the game reference? :D

I hate you.

I buy it as a way to join but not a way to stay.

[Thane]

I have my qualms about it but all right.

No one cared because he was a loner, anyways.

Who can guess the game reference? :D

I don't get it. Is it because I'm dumb, from a small country or old?

[Ebony]

I don't get it. Is it because I'm dumb, from a small country or old?

Didja see that, Shinji?

I'm sorry did i hurt your feelings?

Probably not that and just the more harsher language you seem to use when talking about it in general. But eh... I can't say much since I basically agree with your points.