Localisation observations

[Book of Ereshkigal]

But, like... Aversa is, pretty much, wearing the same thing she wore in Awakening

I don' understan'

Edited May 6, 2016 by L95

[Phoenix_Kensai]

I wonder if they weren't hoping to widen the game's appeal by making it more family-friendly. I don't know if that would actually work, but that being their plan is the best explanation I can think of. If not, considering more risque stuff was left in Awakening and Fates... well, I guess it's kind of weird regardless.

Aversa looks odd now. The change reminds me of some of the lazy censorship I've seen in anime, but at least they didn't go with JoJo-style black blobs, I guess. That was ridiculous.

[eclipse]

First video: That's even more disturbing - that's what I'd expect a ten-year-old to wear. I can live without Tsubasa's boobs in my face, though.

Second video: . . .and that made Dark Pegasus Chick even creepier. Like she's only half-there or something.

GG Nintendo, you managed to freak me out.

Edited May 6, 2016 by eclipse

[The DanMan]

They are appealing to an audience that wouldn't even buy the game in the first place and annoying the niche one that actually will. I wonder if they genuinely think this is a good business decision.

Maybe this is all just a publicity stunt to advertise a niche game through the famous internet censorship arguments. I'll be waiting for the "we heard the feedback guys and we're giving you the option to play the with the original content through a restoration patch!"

I don't really feel like buying it anymore. I may get it used later and that will let me see the full extent of the changes too.

Does it matter? The gameplay is unchanged.

If anything, I feel pity for people like you who tend to get up in arms over every single little thing instead of enjoying it for what it is and then passing your own verdict.

[DarkDestr0yer61]

First video: That's even more disturbing - that's what I'd expect a ten-year-old to wear. I can live without Tsubasa's boobs in my face, though.

I can't say I agree with that first statement. Mainly because I have never seen any ten-year old wear anything like that.... honestly, I think the outfit is kind of cute... for the most part. But to each their own.

I do agree that I appreciate her boobs not being in my face.

As for the 2nd video....honestly censorship like that has existed for forever.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

I can't say I agree with that first statement. Mainly because I have never seen any ten-year old wear anything like that.... honestly, I think the outfit is kind of cute... for the most part. But to each their own.

I do agree that I appreciate her boobs not being in my face.

As for the 2nd video....honestly censorship like that has existed for forever.

Yeah, I really like Tsubasa's new outfit, it's super cute.

That's the thing tho, the 'censorship like that' wasn't in Awakening when Aversa was wearing the same thing :P

[shadowofchaos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUqOFBU7hQA

@8:41

There's a scene where Tsubasa introduces herself and her age. In the English version she actually says "juuhassai" (18 years old) as opposed to "juunana sai" (17 years old) in the Japanese version. In other words, her seiyu had to revoice some of her lines for the English localization release. And there's a possibility that some of the cast may need to revoice some lines throughout the game as well.

What I'm glad about... is them actually revoicing it instead of pretending that's what she said in the subtitles.

[Avk]

I think the new outfit is fine, I'm more worried about what does that mean for the story, since it's a part of the main story. The other changes seem unnecessary, but I don't mind them too much.

I wonder if they weren't hoping to widen the game's appeal by making it more family-friendly. I don't know if that would actually work, but that being their plan is the best explanation I can think of. If not, considering more risque stuff was left in Awakening and Fates... well, I guess it's kind of weird regardless.

Aversa looks odd now. The change reminds me of some of the lazy censorship I've seen in anime, but at least they didn't go with JoJo-style black blobs, I guess. That was ridiculous.

I'm not sure there is a way to make the game have a broader appeal without denaturing the game itself, I'm not sure just because they did these changes the game will appear more appealing (or family-friendly, the game doesn't seem especially restrictive on that to begin with). And apparently, having an english dub does have some effect on sales, so that should have been the first thing they should have done if that was the intention. I'm not blaming them for not doing it (although dual audio would have been nice), but all of this just makes me puzzled.

[Glyth]

Does it matter? The gameplay is unchanged.

If anything, I feel pity for people like you who tend to get up in arms over every single little thing instead of enjoying it for what it is and then passing your own verdict.

"Up in arms" is certainly is an inflated way of describing my post, especially when it was mostly questioning their business decision, and the posts a bit above mine could be seen as much more "up in arms" but specifically chose to address mine.

I'll elaborate. These changes are stupid, and stupid bothers me. They are laughable and even contradictory to other changes. I personally don't feel like buying something with stupid changes. It would make me feel gross for supporting stupidity. I'm simply judging the localization based on what I currently know. That's all. It's basically confirmed that nintendo is forcing atlus do these changes, which I find fucked up.

Also, I personally wouldn't consider changing the art of an entire dungeon, and from what I can tell, changing a key moment of development for tsubasa "minor."

If anything, I feel pity for people like you who reach for some contrived reason to be condescending and get some shallow sense of superiority.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Glyth

[The DanMan]

"Up in arms" is certainly is an inflated way of describing my post, especially when it was mostly questioning their business decision, and the posts a bit above mine could be seen as much more "up in arms" but specifically chose to address mine.

I'll elaborate. These changes are stupid, and stupid bothers me. They are laughable and even contradictory to other changes. I personally don't feel like buying something with stupid changes. It would make me feel gross for supporting stupidity. I'm simply judging the localization based on what I currently know. That's all. It's basically confirmed that nintendo is forcing atlus do these changes, which I find fucked up.

Also, I personally wouldn't consider changing the art of an entire dungeon, and from what I can tell, changing a key moment of development for tsubasa "minor."

If anything, I feel pity for people like you who reach for some contrived reason to be condescending and get some shallow sense of superiority.

Okay. Instead of trying to clear things up peacefully, let's just keep firing back insults at each-other; that's totally the way people should talk when they have a disagreement.

Maybe I misunderstood you; I was working off your previous statements during the (much overblown) Fates localization drama. Tone doesn't carry well over the internet. I'm sorry if I offended you.

EDIT: Seeing that latter parts of this post really didn't entirely concern anything specifically in yours, I've removed them.

Edited May 6, 2016 by The DanMan

[Jave]

DanMan, I think you're being way overdramatic about this. Nobody here is "bellyaching" nor getting "up in arms" over these changes. They simply find them stupid and/or unnecessary and calling them out as that.

And quite honestly, I tend to agree on that. These changes just feel far too dumb and overboard. I'm still getting the game since the changes don't bother me to the point wanting to not play it, but it doesn't change the fact I feel they're completely unnecessary.

Although I will say this: I'm legit afraid that this might damage Nintendo's relationship with Atlus.

[The DanMan]

DanMan, I think you're being way overdramatic about this. Nobody here is "bellyaching" nor getting "up in arms" over these changes. They simply find them stupid and/or unnecessary and calling them out as that.

And quite honestly, I tend to agree on that. These changes just feel far too dumb and overboard. I'm still getting the game since the changes don't bother me to the point wanting to not play it, but it doesn't change the fact I feel they're completely unnecessary.

Although I will say this: I'm legit afraid that this might damage Nintendo's relationship with Atlus.

I apologized, and parts of my post are addressing things in general, expressing my feelings about how certain people are acting here and elsewhere.

As such, I'll admit that I was in the wrong for going overboard and putting all of it in that specific reply.

As for the latter part of your post, I don't see this having much of any lasting effects; Nintendo was the bigger player of the two in this project in the first place. I don't see Etrian Odyssey or non-Persona SMT games going anywhere else in the distant future.

Edited May 6, 2016 by The DanMan

[Glyth]

Okay. Instead of trying to clear things up peacefully, let's just keep firing back insults at each-other; that's totally the way people should talk when they have a disagreement.

Well you started it mate.

I'm sorry if I offended you.

ok

In general, I'm tired of people bellyaching over every single localization change- when they would be perfectly fine with it if they didn't know.

Ignorance is bliss isn't something everyone believes in. I don't think it's irrational to want something to be more like the original. There may be those who exaggerate certain things though. Even if I didn't know about the changes, I personally wouldn't be happy with some of them.

As for the rest of the fate's defense, I have plenty of issues with the writing changes. I don't feel like going on about that anymore. My main issue is with the removal of content and nothing to compensate for that removal. It's just lazy and gross. Also, the voice acting isn't good.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Glyth

[Hardin]

Although I will say this: I'm legit afraid that this might damage Nintendo's relationship with Atlus.

The business relationship between NCL and Atlus won't be damaged over cartoon breasts.

[The DanMan]

Well you started it mate.

Ignorance is bliss isn't something everyone believes in. I don't think it's irrational to want something to be more like the original. There may be those who exaggerate certain things though. Even if I didn't know about the changes, I personally wouldn't be happy with some of them.

As for the rest of the fate's defense, I have plenty of issues with the writing changes. I don't feel like going on about that anymore. My main issue is with the removal of content and nothing to compensate for that removal. It's just lazy and gross. Also, the voice acting isn't good.

Yes, I started it. And I just apologized for it.

I just excised a large part of my original post because it really didn't have anything to do with yours, but it seems I was a bit too late. That's what I get for not thinking things through the first time around.

As for the last bit, I personally find the content that was removed gross to begin with.

And most of the voice acting is just fine; I can name three voices that I don't like, with all the rest fitting the characters pretty well.

[Glyth]

As for the last bit, I personally find the content that was removed gross to begin with.

And most of the voice acting is just fine; I can name three voices that I don't like, with all the rest fitting the characters pretty well.

Even if you think that, it doesn't change the fact that it's lazy.

You can invite a someone into your room and they'll say the same thing four times in a row. More often than not, the fade in and fade out are longer than the actual "conversation."

So that I don't make a completely off topic post..

The business relationship between NCL and Atlus won't be damaged over cartoon breasts.

Cartoon breasts are a bigger deal than you think. I think it's reasonable to believe that there are at least quite a few people upset at having these dumb changes forced on them. This will also make the game sell worse than it already was. Wasting money.

I'm still going to go with my publicity stunt theory. They can't this dumb. That recent E3 reveal though.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Glyth

[Hardin]

Cartoon breasts are a bigger deal than you think. I think it's reasonable to believe that there are at least quite a few people upset at having these dumb changes forced on them. This will also make the game sell worse than it already was. Wasting money.

I'm still going to go with my publicity stunt theory. They can't this dumb. That recent E3 reveal though.

You are talking about professional people with working relationships going back years. Developers realize that different markets have different cultural norms and make adjustments as necessary. When Star Ocean 5 was criticized for exploiting teenage girls, they modified the outfit in question because they are professionals. They know this isn't personal and do what they can to make the product more suitable for the local environment.

[The DanMan]

Even if you think that, it doesn't change the fact that it's lazy.

You can invite a someone into your room and they'll say the same thing four times in a row. More often than not, the fade in and fade out are longer than the actual "conversation."

Cartoon breasts are a bigger deal than you think. I think it's reasonable to believe that there are at least quite a few people upset at having these dumb changes forced on them. This will also make the game sell worse than it already was. Wasting money.

I'm still going to go with my publicity stunt theory. They can't this dumb. That recent E3 reveal though.

Is it a "fact" that it's lazy? Or are you just claiming that your opinion that it's lazy is a fact?

As for the latter part of your post, it's the same people and the same story over and over. The effect on sales is almost certainly negligible; nothing will save the game in the first place. I myself am fairly neutral on these changes anyways.

[Glyth]

You are talking about professional people with working relationships going back years. Developers realize that different markets have different cultural norms and make adjustments as necessary. When Star Ocean 5 was criticized for exploiting teenage girls, they modified the outfit in question because they are professionals. They know this isn't personal and do what they can to make the product more suitable for the local environment.

I didn't say it's about being personal. It's the fact that these changes are going to make the product sell less and they may see nintendo as a bad business partner because they have a bad understanding of the market. Don't use the "cultural norms" thing on a game like this.

Are you talking about miki? I heard that they got a lot of backlash from the japanese because of that change. The character was also 18. Because that number is all that matters. They didn't even receive backlash. It seems they just changed it preemptively. Also, when you have something like this http://gematsu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/SO5-Chara-PV-Fiore-Brunelli.jpg you can see how dumb it is.

Is it a "fact" that it's lazy? Or are you just claiming that your opinion that it's lazy is a fact?

They removed something and added nothing. Just like they removed the swimsuits and replaced them with nothing. I'm not sure why people wouldn't think that's lazy. I don't want to get into some dumb discussion about what is objectively lazy. Negate the "fact" part if it feels good.

As for the latter part of your post, it's the same people and the same story over and over. The effect on sales is almost certainly negligible; nothing will save the game in the first place. I myself am fairly neutral on these changes anyways.

I think it would have a significant affect on a game like this because of the type of audience. Just because you don't see several different types of people posting about not buying the game doesn't mean it isn't happening. Even assuming it's only the people complaining that are not buying, it's still less sales and wasted resources for nothing, and atlus, who is used to dealing with more niche titles, knows how dumb this is.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Glyth

[Hardin]

I didn't say it's about being personal. It's the fact that these changes are going to make the product sell less* and they may see nintendo as a bad business partner because they have a bad understanding of the market. Don't use the "cultural norms" thing on a game like this.

Are you talking about miki? I heard that they got a lot of backlash from the japanese because of that change. The character was also 18. Because that number is all that matters. They didn't even receive backlash. It seems they just changed it preemptively. Also, when you have something like this http://gematsu.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/SO5-Chara-PV-Fiore-Brunelli.jpg you can see how dumb it is.

*Citation needed

I agree that Fiore is a dumb design and they should have never played the "She's not human" card.

[Glyth]

*Citation needed

I'm no business major or expert on the market, but it's a fair assertion to make. I've yet to see a person say they are now buying this game now because the removed cleavage, though there is probably someone somewhere who will, I guess.

It makes sense for atlus to think this way too.

Now give me your honest thoughts, do you think the game will sell more because of these changes?

Edited May 6, 2016 by Glyth

[Hardin]

The major factor would be if the game had received an M rating, in which case I think it would have suffered and that is why these changes are being made. A T rating allows more casual consumers to jump in, whereas an M would keep out younger FE fans.

People said that the changes with Fates would harm the sales, yet Fates has smashed all the previous records so I have no reason to believe that TMS will show any significant losses. Internet forums tend to be echo chambers which distort reality so I put no real stock in them.

[Glyth]

There is nothing in this game that would give an M rating if left alone. I can give examples of games with "lewder" content that got T rating, but I don't think I have to. As I've said before, the changes are inconsistent. They cover up cleavage here, but don't do it there. They sometimes show swimsuits, they sometimes don't. I doubt the M rating would do anything other than prevent a few grandmas from picking it up for their kids on a whim anyway. Considering this game, it wouldn't do anything.Kids buy M rated games all the time, and most wii u owners are adults according to this https://mynintendonews.com/2014/08/28/nintendo-reveals-demographics-of-wii-u-eshop-users-males-account-for-93-and-females-only-7/. Not entirely accurate, but you get my point. The people who want this type of game are going to get it. Besides, an M can also entice people to get the game because it can give the impression of being more matuur. It might be a good thing with something this colorful.

Fates and this are entirely different things.

Fates has wide appeal. This doesn't.

Fates had a shit ton of marketing. This doesn't.

The audience is entirely different.

Besides, we don't know if the fates changes made the game sell less or not. We just know it sold well. I'm just saying.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Glyth

[Hardin]

TMS was shown with a card suggesting it would be rated M last E3, NoA prefers a T rating because that is the sweet spot for their base. The ESRB and CERO have different criteria on how games are rated, and publishers react accordingly to get their preferred rating.

[Glyth]

That doesn't change what I said about the inconsistencies, or the fact that this is much more tame than other T games

Hyrule warriors http://zeldauniverse.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Hyrule-Wariors-Famitsu-image-41.jpg

Neptunia http://s20.postimg.org/kxzz1hywd/neptuniav_22.jpg

senran kagera on 3ds, just google it.

Even the model viewer in the fates accessory shop is more "lewd"

The reason it got that anticipation is probably for it's relation to the smt franchise. That's the only thing that makes sense because the changes are INCONSISTENT. That's key.

My other points about how an M rating would affect this still stand. It wouldn't get it, but still.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Glyth