Quintessence Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Fe14 Birthright: Subaki. There's basically no merit whatsoever to using this guy, his growth rates are absolutely atrocious (Everything but HP, skill and defense averages at around 25%) to the point that his boasting of being perfect almost seems like an inside joke. He's basically the only character whose child is actually superior to them.I hope you're joking cuz Subaki is like one of the few units in Birthright that can take hits like a truck and use Guard Naginata like a boss. As far as I know, Class growths are added to the unit's Personal growths, which in the end favors his Str, Skl, Sp and Res getting them up to 30s or even 40s. He has access to Samurai which is godsent to fix his Spd issues, and get Vantage and Astra, even Life and Death if you want to hit harder and land crts quite often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Strategist Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 FE6: Roy. His Def Growth is pitiful, and I'm supposed to carry this barely double digit Def to the endgame? Sure he gets decent avoid, but that feels too risky to me... FE7: Nino. Joins far too late to be useful (in my eyes) when Pent or Erk are already present and/or promoted. FE 9: Oscar. I got so RNG screwed on my playthroughs with Oscar that I never got to experience anything pleasant from him, save for carrying Ike or Soren out of trouble early on or carrying extra equipment for them at the points before I completely dropped him. FE13: Either Virion or Miriel. Whilst I was coming to grips with how to play the franchise and just learning everything I could a few years back, Virion and Miriel both kept taking severe beatings from most enemies, and wound up being left behind other more obvious units such as Chrom, or the Avatar. Heck, even Ricken was actually more useful to me than either of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) I hope you're joking cuz Subaki is like one of the few units in Birthright that can take hits like a truck and use Guard Naginata like a boss. As far as I know, Class growths are added to the unit's Personal growths, which in the end favors his Str, Skl, Sp and Res getting them up to 30s or even 40s. He has access to Samurai which is godsent to fix his Spd issues, and get Vantage and Astra, even Life and Death if you want to hit harder and land crts quite often I would hardly call a 5% boost over sky knight to be a "godsend" to fix his speed issues, and a sky knight is a terrible idea for a main tank regardless of their defense growth because effective weapons are everywhere for them. Hinoka as a spear fighter is a way better guard naginata tanking option with a superior HP growth to, and the exact same defense growth as, sky knight Subaki, along with vastly superior speed and resistance to avoid being taken out by mages or fast enemies. FE13: Either Virion or Miriel. Whilst I was coming to grips with how to play the franchise and just learning everything I could a few years back, Virion and Miriel both kept taking severe beatings from most enemies, and wound up being left behind other more obvious units such as Chrom, or the Avatar. Heck, even Ricken was actually more useful to me than either of them. Miriel's a godsend in Lunatic+ mode, what with her ability to gain tons of auras and nostank. Edited April 26, 2016 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Least favorite and not qualitatively worse, eh, time for a healthy dose of personal experience and subjectivity today FE4: Beowulf. Motherfucker never really performs for me in gen1 and isn't that great of a dad either. Delmud's stats look good on paper with him as a dad, but in practice I found Beo!Delmuds quite underwhelming. The one time Del performed well, his dad wasn't Beowulf. FE5: Shanam probably, I never even bought anything in FE5 (capture op) so his personal skill is not even useful FE6: Wendy. Played FE6 all girls, still benched her. I trained her and Lilina around the same time. Lilina became pretty good after a while. Wendy never got anywhere. At least Sophia gets me a promotion item that I can sell for more boots. FE7: Sain. Look, I know he's good on average. I acknowledge that he's good unit on average. I refuse to deal with him anymore after motherfucker decideds to go 10 levels without a single spd level. I was going to go for early Sainadin out of Wallace's Knight crest, but that completely fucked up my plans and ate my exp. Fuck this guy. FE8: Ewan probably, I don't like the trainees but I at least like Amelia as a character and play girls runs quite a bit so at least she can GK for me there I played FE9 and FE10 exactly once so I don't really have opinions on most units FE11/12: lmao most of the cast sucks, it'd be easier to name who I actually enjoy using FE13: Ricken. I used him one run. Played a mage boys run. still sucked. Fucking Virion made a better mage than this joker. Also can't really judge on FE14 because I've played each route only once seriously with my usual constraints of Lunatic classic nogrind etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I would hardly call a 5% boost over sky knight to be a "godsend" to fix his speed issues, and a sky knight is a terrible idea for a main tank regardless of their defense growth because effective weapons are everywhere for them. Hinoka as a spear fighter is a way better guard naginata tanking option with a superior HP growth to, and the exact same defense growth as, sky knight Subaki, along with vastly superior speed and resistance to avoid being taken out by mages or fast enemies.Hinoka's existence doesn't change the fact that Subaki is not the worst unit on Birthright, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Hinoka's existence doesn't change the fact that Subaki is not the worst unit on Birthright, though. The fact that he's vastly outclassed in the only area he doesn't suck in, however, does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicIsOP Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Donnel has more going against him than just being outclassed, last I checked. Like bad jointime (don't even try to pretend that coming in with shit bases during an axe-heavy portion of the game isn't bad jointime, especially when his paralogue comes right before a chapter where you're strapped for unit slots, with Wyvern country coming right after). He can join right after C4, which isn't that bad considering he can feed off the damned souls of the Dark Mages, can feed of the Cavs in C6, and by the time Wyvern land comes around he'll be like Level 7 or 8, which is 2 levels away from being a Merc(best) or Fighter. And either of his promotions absolutely trash Axeland. Maribelle, while not only outclassed, joins in a bad spot(surrounded by enemies and being protected by Dicken isn't the best thing), has worse stats than Donny, and if you even try to deploy here in Wyvern Country then ohoho you are going to regret it. Not to mention, her growths are worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rend Keaven Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) 7. Tie between Louise, Dorcas and Nino8. Moulder11. Gordin13. Henry (1st gen) Nah (2nd). and if this counts: TLP- Arthur Edited April 26, 2016 by Kevlar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) He can join right after C4, which isn't that bad considering he can feed off the damned souls of the Dark Mages, can feed of the Cavs in C6, and by the time Wyvern land comes around he'll be like Level 7 or 8, which is 2 levels away from being a Merc(best) or Fighter. And either of his promotions absolutely trash Axeland. Level 2 donnel has 9.75 atk against 34/5 dark mages who wield nosferatu, and level 3 donnel has 10.5 atk against 34/7 cavs, both ORKO him Expecting him to be anywhere near 7.00 after C6 is massive favoritism, even 5.00 is generous, and he's hardly reclassing before the start of C10 (again I'm being generous, note that even with renown you only have 2 second seals by then, which other units would make good use of) and while in villager mode he's OHKOed by many enemies while doing poor damage in return, and none against ranged enemies. Nonexistent EP makes his exp gain a lot slower than that of other growth units because they can take hits for extra combat exp, and find more opportunities for kills due to their much better atk (and just as importantly, speed - your other units are in fact likely to get ORKOes at this point). Edited April 26, 2016 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) He can join right after C4, which isn't that bad considering he can feed off the damned souls of the Dark Mages, can feed of the Cavs in C6, and by the time Wyvern land comes around he'll be like Level 7 or 8, which is 2 levels away from being a Merc(best) or Fighter. And either of his promotions absolutely trash Axeland. Maribelle, while not only outclassed, joins in a bad spot(surrounded by enemies and being protected by Dicken isn't the best thing), has worse stats than Donny, and if you even try to deploy here in Wyvern Country then ohoho you are going to regret it. Not to mention, her growths are worse. I thought you were desperate until now - now I KNOW you're desperate. He merely tickles the dark mages, and gets bodied in return. As for chapter 6 cavs, again, he barely does anything to them, and takes a OHKO in return. Oh, and for your information, Wyvern country starts AFTER chapter 4. How in the seven hells is Donnel going to get the exp needed to get out of Villager when everyone and their grandma OHKOs him??? And once again, I'd rather have Cavalier Chrom, Cavalier/Merc/Pegasus (for females) Robin, Wyvern Panne, or what have you over Merc Donnel. Edited April 26, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicIsOP Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) I thought you were desperate until now - now I KNOW you're desperate. He merely tickles the dark mages, and gets bodied in return. As for chapter 6 cavs, again, he barely does anything to them, and takes a OHKO in return. Oh, and for your information, Wyvern country starts AFTER chapter 4. How in the seven hells is Donnel going to get the exp needed to get out of Villager when everyone and their grandma OHKOs him??? And once again, I'd rather have Cavalier Chrom, Cavalier/Merc/Pegasus (for females) Robin, Wyvern Panne, or what have you over Merc Donnel. Yes, all of the 3 Wyverns in C5 are such a threat. And I'm the desperate one. Yeah. Robin wants her tome rank, so she doesn't need reclassing yet. Wyvern Panne is alright but she does fine as a Taguel for the first part of the game. Donny also doesn't get bodied by the DM's in chapter 5, while guess who does. Your favorite shitty healer. I guess we shouldn't be arguing, as you're entitled to your wrong opinion. Also, there's an archetype that he belongs to, here's the link: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Archetype (scroll down to the bottom) and generally those guys are the best in their game, unless you seem to think that needing babying is terrible. But you don't because you like Maribelle, who also needs to be babied to do anything good. Edited April 26, 2016 by MagicIsOP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) Yes, all of the 3 Wyverns in C5 are such a threat. And I'm the desperate one. Yeah. Robin wants her tome rank, so she doesn't need reclassing yet. Wyvern Panne is alright but she does fine as a Taguel for the first part of the game. Donny also doesn't get bodied by the DM's in chapter 5, while guess who does. Your favorite shitty healer. I guess we shouldn't be arguing, as you're entitled to your wrong opinion. Also, there's an archetype that he belongs to, here's the link: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Archetype (scroll down to the bottom) and generally those guys are the best in their game, unless you seem to think that needing babying is terrible. But you don't because you like Maribelle, who also needs to be babied to do anything good. Sounds like you're talking Normal mode, where you can get away with just about anything. Personally, I prefer to play on hard mode. And hard mode chapter 5 has more than just 3 wyverns. Also, taking 1-2 damage from dark mages is totally getting "bodied" by them. Oh wait, no it ain't. Sorry! Anyways, my issue with Donnel is that unlike other Ests, he needs to actively siphon exp from an army that's still growing to stay relevant - given this trope, that's even worse than most Ests' coming in late. Edited April 26, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicIsOP Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Sounds like you're talking Normal mode, where you can get away with just about anything. Personally, I prefer to play on hard mode. And hard mode chapter 5 has more than just 3 wyverns. Also, taking 1-2 damage from dark mages is totally getting "bodied" by them. Oh wait, no it ain't. Sorry! Anyways, my issue with Donnel is that unlike other Ests, he needs to actively siphon exp from an army that's still growing to stay relevant - given this trope, that's even worse than most Ests' coming in late. Read the freakin' link. He's not an Est, he's a Cliff which you would know if you read the link. I never said he got bodied, so don't put words in my mouth thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosabers Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Yes, all of the 3 Wyverns in C5 are such a threat. And I'm the desperate one. Yeah. Robin wants her tome rank, so she doesn't need reclassing yet. Wyvern Panne is alright but she does fine as a Taguel for the first part of the game. Donny also doesn't get bodied by the DM's in chapter 5, while guess who does. Your favorite shitty healer. I guess we shouldn't be arguing, as you're entitled to your wrong opinion. Also, there's an archetype that he belongs to, here's the link: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Archetype (scroll down to the bottom) and generally those guys are the best in their game, unless you seem to think that needing babying is terrible. But you don't because you like Maribelle, who also needs to be babied to do anything good. That is a horrible way to convince anyone of your arguments. Especially when you're trying to argue that a full utility healer who can do her job just fine at join is better than a unit who needs way too much babying, has to deal with double bronze lock, AND eats the early second seal which should be going to pretty much anyone else. Not to mention he doesn't even end up the best thanks to his shitty caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicIsOP Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 That is a horrible way to convince anyone of your arguments. Especially when you're trying to argue that a full utility healer who can do her job just fine at join is better than a unit who needs way too much babying, has to deal with double bronze lock, AND eats the early second seal which should be going to pretty much anyone else. Not to mention he doesn't even end up the best thanks to his shitty caps. His caps are better than useless Troubadour #43791's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 His caps are better than useless Troubadour #43791's. Donnel's 4 -1s, one of which is in Speed, say otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosabers Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 His caps are better than useless Troubadour #43791's. No, that's almost hilariously wrong. Donnel's strength is 1, Maribelle's magic is 2 Donnel's skill is -1, Maribelle's is 1 Donnel's speed is -1, Maribelle's speed is 0 They both have equal luck. Donnel's defense is 1 while Maribelle's is -3. But Maribelle's resistance is also 2 while Donnel's is -1 Donnel only wins in defense with relevant stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicIsOP Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 So let's look at their growth rates here: (Brackets=Aptitude, and let's be real you always want Donny with aptitude.) HP/Str/Mag/Skl/Spd/Lck/Def/Res Donny: 85(105)/55(75)/15(35)/45(65)/50(70)/80(100)/45(65)/20(40) Maribelle: 65/20/60/50/45/80/20/50 So while Maribelle does have way better Magic, resistance and skill growths than Donnel, he has better growths in everything else. (Also his Skill growth is better w/ aptitude.) Also, Donnel can make any kid good thanks to aptitude while Maribelle craps out Brady(who is good), possibly a crappy Lucina, and Morgan is good anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Dude can't you just admit defeat and move on Like really. This is coming from someone who makes freaking ROLF work out of favoritism. I admit his faults (low level like a third of the way through, no pony etc.) Maribelle is a decent at worst unit, she's a healer on a horse, so she can't be that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 So let's look at their growth rates here: (Brackets=Aptitude, and let's be real you always want Donny with aptitude.) HP/Str/Mag/Skl/Spd/Lck/Def/Res Donny: 85(105)/55(75)/15(35)/45(65)/50(70)/80(100)/45(65)/20(40) Maribelle: 65/20/60/50/45/80/20/50 So while Maribelle does have way better Magic, resistance and skill growths than Donnel, he has better growths in everything else. (Also his Skill growth is better w/ aptitude.) Also, Donnel can make any kid good thanks to aptitude while Maribelle craps out Brady(who is good), possibly a crappy Lucina, and Morgan is good anyways AHAHAHAHA no. Growths aren't everything. Hell, Glace said it before I had the chance - you might as well quit while you're behind, rather than making yourself look even worse than you already have thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicIsOP Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 AHAHAHAHA no. Growths aren't everything. Hell, Glace said it before I had the chance - you might as well quit while you're behind, rather than making yourself look even worse than you already have thus far. Yes, so are all the things I've discussed about on why Donnelald trump is better than Maribelle. Glace was talking to you, bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Yes, so are all the things I've discussed about on why Donnelald trump is better than Maribelle. Glace was talking to you, bro. AHAHAHAHAHAHA Talk about blind arrogance. I've never seen anything like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicIsOP Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 AHAHAHAHAHAHA Talk about blind arrogance. I've never seen anything like it. Look in the mirror, or the broken shards of your dignity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosabers Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 So let's look at their growth rates here: (Brackets=Aptitude, and let's be real you always want Donny with aptitude.) HP/Str/Mag/Skl/Spd/Lck/Def/Res Donny: 85(105)/55(75)/15(35)/45(65)/50(70)/80(100)/45(65)/20(40) Maribelle: 65/20/60/50/45/80/20/50 So while Maribelle does have way better Magic, resistance and skill growths than Donnel, he has better growths in everything else. (Also his Skill growth is better w/ aptitude.) Also, Donnel can make any kid good thanks to aptitude while Maribelle craps out Brady(who is good), possibly a crappy Lucina, and Morgan is good anyways Donnel is one of the absolute worst fathers besides galeforce, altitude doesn't help that much on a child considering how crazy their growths are in the first place. Not to mention -1 speed mod doesn't help him at all. Also Donnel is still in a stat rut and bronze locked while actively taking exp from far better units. Plus he needs a second seal which should always basically be going to Robin. Guess what competition Maribelle has for exp? Lissa, an on foot healer. Finally these extra growths on Donnel means he's hitting his super shitty caps faster. That is only after wasting your early second seal and shit tons of exp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicIsOP Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Donnel is one of the absolute worst fathers besides galeforce, altitude doesn't help that much on a child considering how crazy their growths are in the first place. Not to mention -1 speed mod doesn't help him at all. Also Donnel is still in a stat rut and bronze locked while actively taking exp from far better units. Plus he needs a second seal which should always basically be going to Robin. Guess what competition Maribelle has for exp? Lissa, an on foot healer. Finally these extra growths on Donnel means he's hitting his super shitty caps faster. That is only after wasting your early second seal and shit tons of exp. Hitting not-as-crap-as-you-think caps fast=good Also, you get Libra and Anna a few chapters later, and Sumia and Cordelia can just reclass to Falcoknight. Donnel faces competition from Gregor(decent), Vaike(debatable), Virion(lol) and Flavia(lol) for a Hero/Bow Knight/Warrior on your team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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