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Does Anybody still like Awakening more than Fates.


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Corrin got a lot more player worship because they're the main, while Robin isn't. I definitely agree with needing less player worship, but that's very hard to do and still make the player character a black slate/self insert.

The only ways I can think of to do that is, funnily enough, the silent character treatment, which I'd be fine with although S-Supports would make no sense (SoC please tell us how the Jpn version handled S-Supports with the silent option), or having multiple choices for dialogue. Either way, it'd take a butt-load of work for the devs, but they could possibly pull it off?

EDIT: Note that I'm not saying Corrin being the main excuses his poor writing and player-worship. I'm saying it's likely a cause of the increase in worship over Robin.

Edited by Emerson
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Corrin got a lot more player worship because they're the main, while Robin isn't. I definitely agree with needing less player worship, but that's very hard to do and still make the player character a black slate/self insert.

The only ways I can think of to do that is, funnily enough, the silent character treatment, which I'd be fine with although S-Supports would make no sense (SoC please tell us how the Jpn version handled S-Supports with the silent option), or having multiple choices for dialogue. Either way, it'd take a butt-load of work for the devs, but they could possibly pull it off?

EDIT: Note that I'm not saying Corrin being the main excuses his poor writing and player-worship. I'm saying it's likely a cause of the increase in worship over Robin.

Everyone talks for you.

Even the S support.

Like "Wah? Is that a ring!? You want to marry me!?"

Emmeryn, Chrom, Frederick, Lon'qu, Flavia, and Walhart are the worst offenders of them being the absolutely off putting because they all talk for you clashing with the context.

Edited by shadowofchaos
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Everyone talks for you.

Even the S support.

Like "Wah? Is that a ring!? You want to marry me!?"

Emmeryn, Chrom, Frederick, Lon'qu, Flavia, and Walhart are the worst offenders of them being the absolutely off putting because they all talk for you clashing with the context.

I guess it was kinda tacked on then, huh. Well, hopefully if they do it again it'll be written better.

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I think that Robin is the most overrated character in the series.

Everyone's like "he's the greatest tactician who ever graced the world"

That's really off putting to as it basically says Marth, Alm, Celica, Sigurd, Selph, leif, Roy, Eliwood, Lyn, Hector, Ephraim, Erica, Ike, and Conquest Corrin couldn't have done what he did

No, he could afford to train his army to max out their stats and infinitely level up, a luxury that the other lords never had the opportunity to do. Robin could never hold a fort, or escape like Lief.

Robin is over rated and underneath every lord in the series

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Yeah, that has nothing to do with Robin really. Like SoC said, every world map has had that besides Conquest.

That kinda comes with the world map existing. Unless we had a more serious strategy FE with moving from place to place having some form of consequence, that's what's going to happen.

I will say that lack of directly after chapters is also to blame. If we had even a few of those, it could've been greatly improved.

Yeah but, they didn't have these things called "Second Seals" or gold grinding DLC

Don't the Villagers in FE2 have infinite promotion?

I'd say there's not much difference between maxing everyone's level in FE8 and optimizing everyone in FE13. They're both at their maximum potential for their individual situations. Same with FE14's Eternal Seals. Only difference really being that one takes a heck of a lot longer.

Edited by Emerson
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Corrin got a lot more player worship because they're the main, while Robin isn't. I definitely agree with needing less player worship, but that's very hard to do and still make the player character a black slate/self insert.

The only ways I can think of to do that is, funnily enough, the silent character treatment, which I'd be fine with although S-Supports would make no sense (SoC please tell us how the Jpn version handled S-Supports with the silent option), or having multiple choices for dialogue. Either way, it'd take a butt-load of work for the devs, but they could possibly pull it off?

EDIT: Note that I'm not saying Corrin being the main excuses his poor writing and player-worship. I'm saying it's likely a cause of the increase in worship over Robin.

One game that really handled a silent protagonist avatar character well, and that a lot of people have said the next FE should mimic if Avatars continue to be a thing, is Xenoblade Chronicles X. The Avatar character in that game is silent and completely inconsequential to the main plotline, but is still effectively used as a placeholder that the player can insert into, kind of like a mix of Mark from FE7 and Kris from FE12.

That's one issue I've had with both Robin and Corrin. They're supposed to be player avatars to insert into, but I can't insert myself into either Robin or Corrin's shoes because they're both too much of their own characters with their own established personalities.

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One game that really handled a silent protagonist avatar character well, and that a lot of people have said the next FE should mimic if Avatars continue to be a thing, is Xenoblade Chronicles X. The Avatar character in that game is silent and completely inconsequential to the main plotline, but is still effectively used as a placeholder that the player can insert into, kind of like a mix of Mark from FE7 and Kris from FE12.

That's one issue I've had with both Robin and Corrin. They're supposed to be player avatars to insert into, but I can't insert myself into either Robin or Corrin's shoes because they're both too much of their own characters with their own established personalities.

I kind of wished that they'd done that now...or potentially used the "pokemon trainer" like character; while they do have some impact on the plot (stopping the evil team of the game with the help of other characters) they don't have any dialogue what so ever. I think that would have worked best. It would have made Corrin seem less stupid by a long shot.

Edited by TheSilentChloey
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Tbh the best solution is just remove the avatar entirely since IS clearly can't handle it (anymore, I guess FE7 tactician was tolerable, but Robin's very existence is one of my gripes with Awakening)... however, since IS is also clearly incapable of not adding one, they should have nothing to do with the plot, never appear in cutscenes or inter-chapter dialogue (addressed or doing the addressing), and be a shmo from the starting team Chapter 1 team that happens to be customized (think... Tomas, but in Chapter 1).

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However, since IS is also clearly incapable of not adding one, they should have nothing to do with the plot, never appear in cutscenes or inter-chapter dialogue (addressed or doing the addressing), and be a shmo from the starting team Chapter 1 team that happens to be customized (think... Tomas, but in Chapter 1).

I think that's a bit of "one step forward, two steps back".

By doing that, there's really no point in their existence. What reason would they even have to be in the army? If some weirdo came into the army who wouldn't even interact with anyone, they'd be thrown out immediately in almost any situation.

Heck, I think that'd make them WORSE than Robin, since at least Robin was an actual character, even if he's not one that everyone liked, and got too much pandering.

They'd probably be better than Corrin, if only because Corrin's positives were SO heavily outweighed by his negatives.

I could see them writing it off as, "He/She joined the army as a new recruit before the game," but that still doesn't explain their motives for joining, why the leader allowed them into the army, etc. They'd have less motive than KRIS, a character who's sole existence is based around him training to be stronger and being a Marth fanboy.

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I think that's a bit of "one step forward, two steps back".

By doing that, there's really no point in their existence. What reason would they even have to be in the army? If some weirdo came into the army who wouldn't even interact with anyone, they'd be thrown out immediately in almost any situation.

Heck, I think that'd make them WORSE than Robin, since at least Robin was an actual character, even if he's not one that everyone liked, and got too much pandering.

They'd probably be better than Corrin, if only because Corrin's positives were SO heavily outweighed by his negatives.

I could see them writing it off as, "He/She joined the army as a new recruit before the game," but that still doesn't explain their motives for joining, why the leader allowed them into the army, etc. They'd have less motive than KRIS, a character who's sole existence is based around him training to be stronger and being a Marth fanboy.

I was thinking their personality and such would go entirely into a set of supports chosen by a personality type chosen pre-game (which also scraps "support everyone.")

The point of their existence would be having a customized unit.

Tbh I would prefer scrapping the avatar in full, but having their impact be as ignore-able as possible like that is a compromise I'd be willing to make.

Edited by Glaceon Mage
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It's possible to have a main character that isn't the hero of the story. Robin started out like this, but slowly took centre stage as the story moved along. That's not a bad thing per se, but it did come with unneeded worship, which IS bad.

Regardless, as I've said before, give us a customizable character if we get to make multiple meaningful choices in the game. If not, give us a regular Lord character, with a predefined personality and all that.

One thing I hate is having a silent protagonist. Without anything to say, I ask myself why they even exist. It takes me out of the game. Why not just play god, like you do in a RTS? Same level of self insertion, imo.

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I'm not one for the execution direction in terms of Xenoblade Chronicles Cross with the Avatar character.

I'd rather them just do away with the My Unit and Marriage system entirely. One thing that grinds my gears with Fates is the children existence. Not the characters themselves, but their justification. Awakening at least had a story that justified them properly. Though, the next point excuses neither recent titles.

The whole self-insert is made worse by marriage and children. Kris is better than both Rufure/Robin and Kamui/Corrin in that regard. Kamui moreso because the petting game in My Room's lewd lines and children literally have you go through the motions of marriage, 9 months of pregnancy during a war, with a hyperbolic baby chamber your MU and spouse probably used before to fickle-frackle 3 months in your safe space while your army was coming up with battle preparations in My Caste for the next chapter.

The system was wonderful in gameplay... but... if it was just the marriage system by itself without children, the story doesn't change in the slightest.

Those systems probably cause friction with veterans and newcomers.

On one hand, it had a hand in getting people to love the franchise and even try older titles. On the other, attachment and waifu/husbando culture creeped in even harder than it ever did.

Pairings have always been a contention point in the community, but the self-inserts hinder design (Because you have to be able to marry everyone. Even people being sold in story as your real/blood siblings.) and cause the kind of crap you only see on Tumblr or the tales fandom.

Fates and Awakening moved us in a good gameplay direction. Progressing up to design of Conquest Fates. From a strategic perspective, Conquest blows Awakening out of the water catering to veterans.

The other would be story. Awakening can justify it's story in its own context. Fates has the worst offense in Conquest with what can only be described as the Radiant Dawn blood pact on steroids.

It feels like Fates is an extreme on each of the elements Awakening was criticized for. Both in good and bad.

As one of the few people who actually played with a mute MU... it's not much better as you expect it to be.

Edited by shadowofchaos
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See, I am in the camp where I actually like having a player Avatar, but agree that Corrin took it several steps too far. Honestly for the next game it would be better to go for a character similar to Robin, only perhaps less of a main character. Like at most they can be the deuteragonist or something.

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