People preference Does Anybody still like Awakening more than Fates.

[DragonFlames]

While playing Birthright, Fates had already surpassed Awakening in my mind, both in terms of story and gameplay, less so with the characters. There were only a handful of Birthright's characters that really I liked while I liked almost everybody (except for Ricken and Kjelle) in Awakening.

The characters that really captured my interest were Ryoma, Saizo, Sakura, Hana, Selkie, Kana and Kaden. The others just didn't feel as memorable to me. Two of them almost made the cut for most insufferable FE characters period, but one of them redeemed himself due to being quite powerful in combat (Takumi), while the other co-leads my list personal list of most hated FE characters (Hayato, alongside the aforementioned Ricken and Kjelle).

Maybe that'll change once Revelation comes around.

I don't know how it is on Conquest yet.

Aside from Ryoma, the Nohrian Royals seem better / more appealing character-wise than their Hoshidan counterparts, at least during the Prologue and the few times they were on screen in Birthright's story.

Xander is equally badass as Ryoma (albeit a bit naive), Camilla is cooler / creepier than Hinoka and Elise gives me way more cavities than Sakura, almost on par with Nowi. Although Sakura does have a few badass moments

like when she beats up Iago

, so she probably fits the Badass Adorable mold better than Elise, who is just cute cranked up to eleven. (For the moment. After my Conquest playthrough, this opinion might change).

Takumi just came off as a mean a$$, I don't even know what his deal is. He gets all jealous when someone can do something better than him, always wants to have attention and is a sore loser above it all? Nope! Not my type of guy! I do understand his mistrust of Kamui / Corrin in the beginning of the game, though. I get where he's coming from, at least. But that still doesn't excuse him!

Compare that to Leo, who only pretends to be an a$$, while actually being a genuinely pleasant guy, I'd hang out with Leo over Takumi any day.

I do prefer Kamui / Corrin over Robin, though. If only for their design, which I find to be a bit better than Robin's.

Also Manakete protag. So that's a plus.

I don't know how many people I have angered with this post... I'd better go into hiding...

[ruadath]

There not being an option to grind makes players feel more inclined to overcome the challenges with what they have, instead of using the easy way out when they're lazy. That's the whole point.

And uh, to be honest most players know better how to distribute experience. It's a skill you need to make FE easier for yourself, and as the version that is supposed to challenge the player the most and is there to appeal to experts, Conquest challenges this skill with a combination of no grinding and making lowmanning a bad idea (or so I heard, I haven't played it yet).

Based on my experiences so far, low-manning is still a pretty viable option, it's just that the EXP curve is so steep that you can't really get your characters more than 4 or 5 levels ahead of the enemies (except for maybe Corrin because of Nobility). With the right combination of units and skills, you don't really need to be much above that though (in my casual playthrough, Avatar+ Jakob, Silas, Camilla, Nyx, Beruka, and Severa have made for a pretty competent team).

I haven't checked this out yet, but I heard the EXP curve in Lunatic is even steeper, so I guess I'll see what happens when I try that out.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Still doesn't justify it.

I never thought id actually meet one of these mythological fans people talk about that literally go apeshit when you cant grind in Fire Emblem. Or rely too much on it and think not being able to is unfair and awful. Id never come across someone like this.

Until now.

It is not unfair to not be able to grind in any FE. It is perfectly justified to not have that option in one version of the game. The majority of the series does not have grinding in it and many people played it just fine. The games are never so unbalanced that you cant get through it without overpowering your dudes. Conquest is designed to be a little tougher than the rest of Fates. It was marketed that way. It is perfectly justified. If you are that damn buttmad about not being able to grind on that route, get the Boo Camp DLC so you can . Otherwise, its likely not the kind of route for you. Its not bad design, it is not unfair, its your problem. Sorry, but git gud.

[Baldrick]

And this is what Awakening has done to us, folks.

It's left an enormous count of people without the proper sense of strategy to handle the older formula. Well, that's what Phoenix mode is for, okay? That's why it exists.

I think it's not so much that they lack strategy, but that they've come to expect grinding. That's the problem with Awakening being extremely popular; I was worried that FE would be Awakening clones indefinitely because to do otherwise risks disenfranchising the majority of the fanbase who haven't played the older games. As it is, they've compromised with the Birthright/Conquest split, but will they keep doing it like this?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i actually like the not grinding stuff (exp wise) it means i can grind up relatenship points and have fun with castle battles without that fear of "i'm going to overlevel and break the game"

[mikethepokemaster]

Come on now, people don't jump on the girl she was just posting her frustration with the game.

[Sky Knight Subaki]

I love both games.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Come on now, people don't jump on the girl she was just posting her frustration with the game.

its one thing to be frustrated, its quite another to try to say an established part of FE is unjustified,

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

its one thing to be frustrated, its quite another to try to say an established part of FE is unjustified,

i get ya, next thing you know someone will say "permadeath as an OPTION is unjustified" or something.

[AlexTheClumsyGrandmaster]

I like Awakening more.

Edited August 24, 2016 by AlexTheClumsyGrandmaster

[BlueLeafeon]

Awakening > Fates

Awakening at least didn't shatter my Suspension of Willing Disbelief to the point where I put the game down and didn't pick it back up. The story was generally better and the gameplay was far more enjoyable. (I do not call false difficulty "fun") The characters were better, too, for the most part--at least the main cast.

[kisaragi]

In terms of story I personally preferred Awakening more than Fates but in terms of characters I'm more attached to the characters of fates.

I was only pretty much fond of the children in awakening.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Awakening > Fates

Awakening at least didn't shatter my Suspension of Willing Disbelief to the point where I put the game down and didn't pick it back up. The story was generally better and the gameplay was far more enjoyable. (I do not call false difficulty "fun") The characters were better, too, for the most part--at least the main cast.

Out of curiosity, what do you consider false difficulty?

[TheSilentChloey]

Come on now, people don't jump on the girl she was just posting her frustration with the game.

Thanks for the support. It's amazing how badly people are ripping into me for both my lack of experience with Fire Emblem games and my defensive style strategies that are meant to make full use of all characters avaliable to me and keep everyone on equal footing and EXP which if you've ever played Pokemon is essential.

Mostly all I care about is building up support points not actual exp since we can buy skills anyway (making children and master seals etc redundant), but given that it takes time to bring characters to bare with stats to take at least a couple of hits while dishing out decent damage was my biggest issue with Conquest. I am playing Revelation, which fixes most of my gripes about Conquest save for the unengaging characters *cough Corrin/Kamui cough* and unengaging story, at least for Revelation. Conquest was good though. And to make it crystal clear I assumed that Conquest would allow for some grinding. Even if I wanted to use "Boo Camp" (which I can't by the way because the DLC isn't avaliable for me to play as of the last time I played Fates) I would rather have my units about the same level if not one or two levels ahead of the enemy, same as Pokemon for very obvious reasons as stated above.

(Edited for dumb spelling errors)

Edited May 30, 2016 by TheSilentChloey

[Maritisa]

contrary to popular belief and all the trends, Fire Emblem is not Pokemon. Shocking, I know.

But hey if you're playing revelation and it suits your playstyle better well sure have fun. It's just when folks gripe about stuff that's explicitly stated to not be possible or strategies that are legitimately impractical that folks kind of blow up.

...Out of curiosity, though, what's wrong with your DLC? o.o;

[TheSilentChloey]

contrary to popular belief and all the trends, Fire Emblem is not Pokemon. Shocking, I know.

But hey if you're playing revelation and it suits your playstyle better well sure have fun. It's just when folks gripe about stuff that's explicitly stated to not be possible or strategies that are legitimately impractical that folks kind of blow up.

...Out of curiosity, though, what's wrong with your DLC? o.o;

It's region blocked at the moment so the only map I can play is Before Awakening. I know that it is different from Pokemon, I'm just using Pokemon as an example in case.

Edited May 30, 2016 by TheSilentChloey

[Taka-kun]

Up until ch 20 of Birthright, I've gotta say that there are so many facepalm moment in the story.

The general plot is so bland, with Corrin & Co. traveling across the world for the boneheaded idea of "hey, let's just kill Garon, he will never expect it" and out of Ryoma's mouth out of everybody, the one who is supposed to be an ace in war. Moreover, the whole premise of war seems completely lost since there is no major engagement, no telling of the Hoshido-Nohr war in favor of Nohr running around like chickens trying to catch Corrin & Co. and Iago just setting random traps for the lulz. Nothing is told or shown about what the Nohrian royal family is doing until they meet Corrin, it's like they just chill around (except for Xander) until Corrin comes for them. Awakening at least had a story about setting up an alliance and make a pre-emptive strike against a large empire, and some minor strategies about disrupting communication channels, rallying the people with a symbol and placing themselves in a favorable geographic position.

What bothers me the most is how every other chapter, Ryoma spouts out "You are natural-born leader" to Corrin and I always go "Gee, thanks for telling me cause I never noticed!". Sweet jesus, now I know why the SF forums went ballistic almost a year ago.

The gameplay is fun though. I like this change with Attack and Guard stance and the MyCastle battles are tons of fun, with how I and others design the defenses for maximum annoyance challenge. The characters are quite good too, though I am not entirely sold. Saizo/Mozu must be the most adorable thing I have read so far.

[Thane]

The main reasons why Awakening's plot is bad:

-No real worldbuilding

-Cartoon villains with no in-story development

-The Valm Arc is massive filler

-The fact that Future Grima can revive himself without the Emblem makes no sense since they first physically appeared at the start of the Valm arc but don't do anything before the game's climax, with Validar still trying to get the Emblem

That's funny, with a few adjustments, all of those complaints can be applied to Fates as well.

- We find out nothing about the world (it doesn't even have a name) and we plow through unimportant cities on our way to the goal.

- Garon literally holds evil monologues. Iago has no other purpose in the story other than to make life bitter for Corrin, and Ganz is a crazy person.

- [spoiler=Revelation]Revelation makes two thirds of the game obsolete story-wise.

- [spoiler=Revelation]The fact that Anankos can just send Sumeragi around and blow up cities at will yet only does it once, or twice in Revelation, makes no sense. He could have also teleported Garon to him at any time and returned to his (what we can only assume) full power.

[MCProductions]

That's funny, with a few adjustments, all of those complaints can be applied to Fates as well.

- We find out nothing about the world (it doesn't even have a name) and we plow through unimportant cities on our way to the goal.

- Garon literally holds evil monologues. Iago has no other purpose in the story other than to make life bitter for Corrin, and Ganz is a crazy person.

- [spoiler=Revelation]Revelation makes two thirds of the game obsolete story-wise.

- [spoiler=Revelation]The fact that Anankos can just send Sumeragi around and blow up cities at will yet only does it once, or twice in Revelation, makes no sense. He could have also teleported Garon to him at any time and returned to his (what we can only assume) full power.

1. Agreed, tho I feel Fates does a MUCH better job of making what little world building it actually has well established. Seriously, does anyone even know WHERE on Valm Cron'sin and Rossanne are

2. While I have no defense for Iago or Garon, despite liking Garon, Hans seems less crazy and more "I must follow orders at any cost". Hell, Hans actually apologizes to Corrin in Cheve as he felt he had no choice but to massacre the citizens of the place due to Garon's orders, AND Hans goes on about how Corrin returning to Nohr boosted Morale. I'm not calling Hans a good character, but he's not as insane as the story attempts to portray him.

3.

No, it doesn't. Outrealms prove that all three routes are canon just in different outrealms, so they are not obsolete

4.

Anankos is literally noted to have no sanity left, being nothing more than a degenerated dragon from the Archenea games, so his stupid actions are not a problem with the plot as it actually explains why his actions make no sense

While I consider both Awakening and Fates to have shit plots, not as bad as RD's imo, but still, Fates does a much better job for me, as I can actually comprehend everyone bar Iago's motivations.

Edited May 30, 2016 by MCProductions

[Dengres]

Seriously, does anyone even know WHERE on Valm Cron'sin and Rossanne are

I have more of an idea where they are then any of the countries other than Nohr and Hoshido mentioned in Fates tbh. Also the lack of a name for the continent bothers me greatly

4.

Anankos is literally noted to have no sanity left, being nothing more than a degenerated dragon from the Archenea games, so his stupid actions are not a problem with the plot as it actually explains why his actions make no sense

Is this a thing? I don't remember this being a thing.

[MCProductions]

I have more of an idea where they are then any of the countries other than Nohr and Hoshido mentioned in Fates tbh. Also the lack of a name for the continent bothers me greatly

Is this a thing? I don't remember this being a thing.

Hidden Truths DLC goes into GREAT detail about this plot point, tho I do concede the main story itself botches conveying that

[Thane]

1. Agreed, tho I feel Fates does a MUCH better job of making what little world building it actually has well established. Seriously, does anyone even know WHERE on Valm Cron'sin and Rossanne are

2. While I have no defense for Iago or Garon, despite liking Garon, Hans seems less crazy and more "I must follow orders at any cost". Hell, Hans actually apologizes to Corrin in Cheve as he felt he had no choice but to massacre the citizens of the place due to Garon's orders, AND Hans goes on about how Corrin returning to Nohr boosted Morale. I'm not calling Hans a good character, but he's not as insane as the story attempts to portray him.

3.

No, it doesn't. Outrealms prove that all three routes are canon just in different outrealms, so they are not obsolete

4.

Anankos is literally noted to have no sanity left, being nothing more than a degenerated dragon from the Archenea games, so his stupid actions are not a problem with the plot as it actually explains why his actions make no sense

While I consider both Awakening and Fates to have shit plots, not as bad as RD's imo, but still, Fates does a much better job for me, as I can actually comprehend everyone bar Iago's motivations.

1. You think so? All I know is that Nohr and Hoshido have a war going on, there's a neutral country somewhere in the mix, as well as a town (in another country?) that's known for pleasure that Garon could apparently walk around and kill singers in. We know nothing about that nameless world.

2. Right. The guy made a suicidal charge in the first chapter he's introduced and gleefully slaughters people so that it makes him look like a demon. By that logic I can say that Mustafa makes up for Awakening's cartoon villains.

3.

Surely you must be joking? One path reveals everything, ties everything up and gives you an unambiguously happy ending while the other two paths have Azura show up and hint that you messed up at the end; some lip service won't change the fact that Birthright and Conquest are not canon. If that is enough for you, then that's fine, but it most certainly does not satisfy me.

4.

I fail to see the point. The guy is insane, so what? It doesn't change the fact that he could finish everything whenever he wanted to, but didn't, which puts him on the same level as Nergal. At least Grima needed the Dragon Table or whatever it was.

[The DanMan]

That's funny, with a few adjustments, all of those complaints can be applied to Fates as well.

- We find out nothing about the world (it doesn't even have a name) and we plow through unimportant cities on our way to the goal.

- Garon literally holds evil monologues. Iago has no other purpose in the story other than to make life bitter for Corrin, and Ganz is a crazy person.

- [spoiler=Revelation]Revelation makes two thirds of the game obsolete story-wise.

- [spoiler=Revelation]The fact that Anankos can just send Sumeragi around and blow up cities at will yet only does it once, or twice in Revelation, makes no sense. He could have also teleported Garon to him at any time and returned to his (what we can only assume) full power.

I've also said before (I believe even in this very thread) that I find Awakening's plot to be marginally better than Fates'.

[MCProductions]

1. You think so? All I know is that Nohr and Hoshido have a war going on, there's a neutral country somewhere in the mix, as well as a town (in another country?) that's known for pleasure that Garon could apparently walk around and kill singers in. We know nothing about that nameless world.

2. Right. The guy made a suicidal charge in the first chapter he's introduced and gleefully slaughters people so that it makes him look like a demon. By that logic I can say that Mustafa makes up for Awakening's cartoon villains.

3.

Surely you must be joking? One path reveals everything, ties everything up and gives you an unambiguously happy ending while the other two paths have Azura show up and hint that you messed up at the end; some lip service won't change the fact that Birthright and Conquest are not canon. If that is enough for you, then that's fine, but it most certainly does not satisfy me.

4.

I fail to see the point. The guy is insane, so what? It doesn't change the fact that he could finish everything whenever he wanted to, but didn't, which puts him on the same level as Nergal. At least Grima needed the Dragon Table or whatever it was.

Well, I can actually tell you where certain locations are in Fates when I can't in Awakening. That's gotta mean something.

I'm not saying he makes up for Fates poor villains, I'm just saying he has more character than most people give him credit for.

I may be a chronic shitposter, but I'm not joking when I say that. I just can't believe there's any reason for Outrealms to EXIST unless every possible choice in this series is actually canon.

The point is simple. Anankos is basically a wild animal. His actions have no real logic, and they shouldn't be expected too due to him no longer truly possessing the sanity necessary to even take logical actions

.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Thanks for the support. It's amazing how badly people are ripping into me for both my lack of experience with Fire Emblem games and my defensive style strategies that are meant to make full use of all characters avaliable to me and keep everyone on equal footing and EXP which if you've ever played Pokemon is essential.

Mostly all I care about is building up support points not actual exp since we can buy skills anyway (making children and master seals etc redundant), but given that it takes time to bring characters to bare with stats to take at least a couple of hits while dishing out decent damage was my biggest issue with Conquest. I am playing Revelation, which fixes most of my gripes about Conquest save for the unengaging characters *cough Corrin/Kamui cough* and unengaging story, at least for Revelation. Conquest was good though. And to make it crystal clear I assumed that Conquest would allow for some grinding. Even if I wanted to use "Boo Camp" (which I can't by the way because the DLC isn't avaliable for me to play as of the last time I played Fates) I would rather have my units about the same level if not one or two levels ahead of the enemy, same as Pokemon for very obvious reasons as stated above.

(Edited for dumb spelling errors)

You can psuedo-grind in Conquest, since My Castles still allow for support grinding. This allows you to collect all your supports without worrying about EXP. On top of that, grinding out those S supports opens up the kid paralogues, which gives you additional sources of EXP. They're still limited in absolute quantity, but those paralogues are super generous about enemy stats versus the amount of EXP they give. The best thing about the new Attack Stance is that as long as a character can use ranged weapons, they can gain EXP, even if they'd deal 0 damage. They just need one of your higher-level characters backing them, since anyone in the pair dealing damage gives the lead unit EXP. Finally, if you wait a bit into the game, the Offspring Seals give the kids free, effortless EXP, allowing the first gens to take the lion's share of it.

I also want to point out that spread EXP a bit is, in fact, actually important in getting through Conquest (barring having some very specific game-breaking builds in mind that allow 1-2 super units to roll over it). The enemy has a lot of different stats, skills and formations that can generally be decisively answered by certain units. So keeping a core team of around 10-12, all with varying roles, allows much more ease in play over, say, trying to just juggernaut around with Corrin and Jakob. This is all with just the main campaign, BTW, so if you take the time to open all the paralogues via My Castle support grinding, the additional maps should allow you to use everyone (you'll still want some units at higher levels to help everyone else get a footing, though).