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ruadath

FE13 Lunatic RNG-abused LTC

  

12 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will get the most kills?

    • Robin
      8
    • Frederick
      2
    • Lucina
      0
    • Morgan
      1
    • Other?!
      1
  2. 2. Who will get the most MVPs?

    • Robin
      6
    • Frederick
      3
    • Lucina
      0
    • Morgan
      2
    • Other?!
      1


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SSJDennis told me to look into whether or not a 3 turn is possible on Lunatic, and it turns out the answer is yes! And with significantly less RNG abuse than I imagined (though it is still a rather nontrivial amount)

g0k7Y8k.png

I will update with details soon, and potentially (though unlikely, Citra still isn't that nice yet) a video.

UPDATE: Adding turn counts to the first page, too lazy to add links yet

[spoiler=Turn Counts]Premonition (2 turns)

Prologue (3 turns)

Chapter 1 (3 turns)

Chapter 2 (3 turns)

Chapter 3 (3 turns)

Chapter 4 (2 turns)

Chapter 5 (2 turns)

Chapter 6 (3 turns)

Chapter 7 (2 turns)

Edited by ruadath

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Not good enough, unfortunately. Something like 1/20000 (I'm estimating very roughly here), and that's not counting rigging good level(s) for Robin. Only one forced crit, one or 2 forced dodge and like 2-3 forced DS though, I think, which is significantly better than what I was expecting

EDIT: If you (or anyone else) wants to play around with it, I'm happy to email/PM/whatever the save file.

Edited by ruadath

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I'll settle for a good old fashioned screenshot description of the clear.

Turn 1 PP: Frederick pairs up with Robin, who moves up to the myrmidon, gives Fred her Bronze Sword for later, then switches with him so he can OHKO the myrmidon with his Silver Lance. Chrom takes a step east, and Lissa moves to the spot behind him

5svtkv7.png

Turn 1 EP: Two Barbarians rush Frederick; (at least) one needs to die from a DS from Robin. Fred will get attacked 4 times (by people who can actually damage him) during the chapter, and he needs to make at least one dodge. The eastmost myrmidon attacks Chrom. In order for this strategy to work, the mage has to move left, but he does that most often anyway

n8sASY2.png

Turn 2 PP: Chrom moves to the spot either north or east of Fred, takes Robin, switches and lets her kill the remaining Barb (if he's there). Robin got some Event Tile EXP in my playthrough at this point, but I edited it away since I don't like the idea of Event Tile randomness. Fred circled around and OHKOs the mage from the east with his Silver Lance. Lissa runs away to a safe square

l5bqTlm.png

Turn 2 EP: Fred lures an enemy mage, two myrmidons (who he kills), and a barbarian who he has to crit-kill (2% chance, IIRC). If Fred survives this, he is good for the rest of the chapter (remember, only one dodge necessary). The myrmidon from the south attacks Robin, and Chrom finishes him off with a Dual Strike (~35% chance). Thanks to Veteran awesomeness, Robin hits level 2 already!

4gDnBNj.png

Turn 3 PP: Lissa heals Robin. Robin moves above Fred and switches to Chrom, who transfers Robin to Fred, and trade-equips him with the Bronze Sword. Chrom then attacks the mage, requiring either a crit (6% with Rapier?) or a Dual Strike from Fred (~35% chance) to kill him.

M7zZ3O6.png

At this point, I was planning to attack the boss with Bronze Sword!Robin (paired up with Silver Lance!Fred), but the RNG seed was such that it ended up being more convenient for me to move to the highlighted square above and kill the barbarian with Thunder plus a DS from Fred.

Turn 3 EP: The boss attacked and got killed by a crit from Thunder!Robin (plus a DS from Fred). Note again that I normally would have just killed him in 2 rounds (requiring only one DS proc, no crits), but this happened to yield a near perfect level for Robin, so I decided to roll with it. She did end up losing ~15 EXP from what was originally intended because of this, but I figure the awesome level is worth it, plus Fred got an extra 5 EXP or so, which means it evens out I guess. In the worst case scenario, I can just give Robin back the EXP she "earned" from the Event Tile (EDIT: I think I'm doing this, if we're really going to go for optimal turn counts in the next couple of chapters she needs every bit of EXP she can get).

UNIT     CLASS          LEVEL  HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES  WEXP
Chrom    Lord            1.50  BASE                            E Swd
Robin    Tactician       3.47  21   8   7   7  10   2   8   5  E Swd E Tome
Lissa    Cleric          1.17  BASE                            E Stf
Fred     Great Knight    1.83  BASE                            D Swd B Lnc D Axe

So lots of EXP for Robin, and a decent amount for Fred, but Chrom lagging a bit. Oh well.

Edited by ruadath

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Turn 3 EP: The boss attacked and got killed by a crit from Thunder!Robin (plus a DS from Fred).

This is THE reason only YOU can achieve this kind of stuff ; ]

I am playing on a regular 3DS, so not very likely this will help me out. How big is the crit rate? 1%? Or a bit higher? Robin got TWO level ups? Amazing.

Also, you can't use Event Tiles to help you out... But still, what do you think about chapter 1?

You rush with Frederick all way down, to make sure Robin kills everyone on EP2? :smug:

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This is THE reason only YOU can achieve this kind of stuff ; ]

Well, like I said you don't actually need that. The safer thing to do is to give Robin the Bronze Sword (so that she has a good dodge chance) and attack the boss from up close, and then get a Dual Strike on one out of two rounds of combat with him. It's just that the RNG happened to favor this alternative approach in my clear. I also didn't use the Event Tile (well I did, but then I manually removed the EXP bonus Robin got).

But still, what do you think about chapter 1?

You rush with Frederick all way down, to make sure Robin kills everyone on EP2? :smug:

Again, I should stress (just like with SD) how little I know about this game. But given that the maps are the same in HM and LM (up to enemy stats), and a 2-turn is possible in HM... that means it should be possible in LM, right? Unless there are certain enemies that just can't be killed in a single round of combat, even with crits. I'll have to think about it, but a quick question: does the boss move?

EDIT: So it seems like a 2-turn is at least "plausible," but the RNG abuse seems massive since Robin has to take the lead so that 2-range enemies can get killed. A quick calculation here: Fred needs to DS on every singly one of the 8 enemies, so that is ~.25^8, and then Robin needs to dodge 4 or 5 attacks without Woods bonus... so this is already looking like 1/20,000,000... and that's not counting that Robin will level up a bunch of times (and Fred once), and they probably need to be rigged... so I'm going to say that this is not feasible to actually carry out. And we also aren't counting the fact that Thunder is innacurate and can miss as well.

Edited by ruadath

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Expect to see more odds like that for the next few chapters. C2, in particular, sees a pretty big spike in power. C3 will likely see you rushing headlong into groups of very accurate enemies and C4 has Marth, whose stats are really good. Stat plateau a bit starting at C5 with mostly nominal increases (and the odd one that's actually weaker) per chapter, but the terrain in C5 is pretty awful and the reinforcements comes early and hard. Also, it doesn't take long for many of the earliest of the scrubs to fall into being one-shot or one-rounded without a few specific pair-up partners that everyone's going to want, not to mention that they only four-shot the enemy in return (I suspect that you may get significant mileage out of Killing Edge Lon'qu with Vaike pair, though).

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Cool, thanks for the advice. A more thought-provoking question that you might be qualified to answer: how feasible do you think it is for me to do things without Renown? I'm probably going to consider picking up the 100 Renown Second Seal early (all I have to do is hire and fire 1 SpotPass team, I think), but will I screw myself over without the Energy Drop/Speedwings/good weapons? I think since my stats are rigged I might be fine, but I don't want to nerf Sumia/Cordelia to the extent that they will be unusable (not sure if that will happen).

Chapter 1 now completed (I'll have the write-up soon) in 3 turns using a modification of SSJDennis' strat, and here are the stats:

UNIT     CLASS          LEVEL  HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES  WEXP
Chrom    Lord            1.85  BASE                            E Swd
Robin    Tactician       5.31  23  10   9   8  12   4   9   6  E Swd D Tome
Lissa    Cleric          1.51  BASE                            E Stf
Fred     Great Knight    2.50  29  14   2  13  11   6  14   3  D Swd B Lnc D Axe
Sully    Cavalier        2.10  BASE
Virion   Archer          2.00  BASE

Most importantly, I only used the Silver Lance twice, so still 19 uses left! And Fred and Chrom reached their C support which is useful. I'm pretty sure Chapter 2 can be done in 3 turns by rushing Frederick and Chrom forward with the Silver Lance; I'll let you know how that goes.

Edited by ruadath

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Just use renown up to 2.2k (Seraph Robe). Much like FE10 transfers, it mainly improves statistical reliability, which is a good thing to save yourself some rigging, and doesn't fundamentally change the way you play.

Also, just play through the game on a separate save and do some spotpass battles (just kill wolt over and over) to fill up the rest of the renown. You need to beat endgame once to get the renown without falsifying the data on this playthrough anyway (hiring and firing a spotpass team isn't enough, you must beat or buy them or beat a chapter). It will also make planning this out a lot less dependent on trial and error.

Robin should be decently off for now and you should focus on Chrom to save turns in 23, his exp gain is rather tight. Robin still needs to hit level 10 by chapter 6, but there's enough room for that to put priority on Chrom.

Edited by Gradivus.

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OK, but no 50k Boots then? Also, what's the reason behind the 2.2k cutoff? I'm just curious if it's arbitrary or if there is some reason. Also, who gets the statboosters? Robin's getting Str/Mag/Spd every level, so she probably doesn't need them by the time Chapter 4/5 (?) rolls around? Do I just dump them on Sumia/Cordelia, or put them on Frederick to keep up his usefulness (he also get Str/Spd every level). Just wondering if you have any thoughts, otherwise I can figure it out later when the time comes.

EDIT:

Also, just play through the game on a separate save and do some spotpass battles (just kill wolt over and over) to fill up the rest of the renown. You need to beat endgame once to get the renown without falsifying the data on this playthrough anyway (hiring and firing a spotpass team isn't enough, you must beat or buy them or beat a chapter). It will also make planning this out a lot less dependent on trial and error.

I might actually do that, but the lazy part of me wants to just hack in the Renown items into someone's inventory whenever I need them (it's actually surprisingly easy to do this).

Edited by ruadath

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Well, if you're doing RNG rigging, you could probably do entirely without Renown. You could spawn Anna shops with the seals or other gear you might need (barring the Bonus Box weapons, but if you're rigging crits, I don't see much of a need for them). With the crit rigging and stat rigging, the stat boosters probably wouldn't be necessary, but would certainly make things more reliable. I think that, regardless of stats, the biggest obstacle is going to be rigging the chain dodges/Dual Guards. For instance, with your C2 clear, your Fred is going to be looking at high-accuracy Mercs who deal 5 damage, decent-accuracy Soldiers doing 8 damage and high-accuracy Barbs (due to WTA against the Silver Lance) dealing 13 damage.

As for Sumia, even if you broke at the stat boosters, she's not going to be very good. She requires a fair amount of babying and I don't think a LTC setting is going to give her what she needs. Still, Sumia isn't ever going to be totally useless, because flying taxis will always be in demand and she's the lone one for a good while. Cordelia might be a better bet if you're looking for a flying combat unit. She comes in with better bases, better proficiencies and right before a map that's practically designed to feed fliers. She's still likely to fall off and become little more than a taxi later on, unless you can really find a way to cram her full of EXP in C8 (as in, probably rig it similarly to what you're gonna have to do with Fred in C2).

I guess one other thing that Sumia could be useful for, assuming you can find the time to build supports, is as a stat backpack for Fred. The extra Spd to keep him from being doubled helps him stay relevant until you stop facing unpromoted enemies in C17. Granted, if he's getting Str/Spd rigged every time, he may actually start doubling with this. Still, even with all that, his EXP gain is so bad that I doubt he'll hold much past C20 or so.

One thing to maybe consider, assuming you can easily rig seal shops and have the cash to spare, is Wyvern Panne. Her growths very easily make her a flying tank, which should also make level rigging a bit easier for you. The only problem here is finding her 4 levels for a reclass, then dealing with E axes, not to mention that a Second Seal is a non-trivial resource (even if you can rig it up). And unlike Cordelia, she won't have 1~2 range for a good while.

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@Espinosa Boots get skipped (unless they save more turns than they cost, which is unlikely), but yes, GK!Chrom gives her the movement to kill weak Validar on turn 1, provided an 8 mov class.

Above 2.2k are some ridiculous weapons like Innes' bow (this one is useless though) and Mercurius, 2.2k and less are just statboosters and earlygame utility weapons. It might be partly arbitrary, but it's one of the most reasonable cut-offs (along with 270/330, 1k and 10k).

With rigged stats, I'm not seeing any direct necessity for the renown items (that's off the top of my head though), but I think a C7 2-turn might revolve around giving Robin an Angelic Robe since the map contains a bunch of steel axe wyverns that have high hit and 30 Atk, as well as a silver axe wyvern boss.

Edited by Gradivus.

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Depends on what you mean by "this." If you're talking about the 3 turn clear of the Prologue, it's exponentially better than the FE6 thing. The prologue is at worst 1/500,000 odds with levels included (and probably not close to that bad, I'm giving a high upper bound).

FE6 C1, on the other hand, collectively has like 4-5 1% (some of them are actually like 2 or 3, but you get my points) crits, at least one of which also has like a 30% not true hit rate, and then there are the 5-6 Wolt dodges while he's carrying Roy (at like 85% not true hit). I think Lance has to dodge something at least once to not die (we're not even talking about his level up here), Marcus has to crit something, and if you want Alan survive and not Lance, then you need to do some terrible rigging on the enemy stats at the beginning (probably at least 1/1000); otherwise there is a seed at the beginning that makes it possible for the Lance surviving clear.

Edited by ruadath

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Chapter 1

Turn 1 PP: Frederick pairs up with Chrom, who moves up to the myrmidon on the west side of the map, switches to Frederick who attacks with the Bronze Sword (conserving Silver Lance uses here). Robin moves onto the fort with the Event Tile (yay more EXP!) and attacks the fighter. Lissa moves southwest

j8WkbQO.png

Turn 1 EP: The myrmidon suicides on Fred+Chrom, the fighter attacks Robin again but misses, and all the enemies generally approach our army

orS4vHM.png

Turn 2 PP: Sully moves east up into the trees, Virion pairs up with Robin, and Robin moves west of Sully to finally finish off the fighter and hit level 4. Lissa heals Robin

zG6ZBPC.png

Fred moves south into the forests and attacks with the Bronze Sword for a sweet level.

Turn 2 EP: A bunch of things attack Fred and die, either because he just doubles them or because Chrom DS. I still haven't used the Silver Lance this chapter! An archer attacks Robin.

vhJpIDq.png

Turn 3 PP: Not too much to do here. Sully attacks the archer from the north, Lissa heals Robin from the west, and then Robin moves 1 SW to kill the archer so that she can aggro the remaining mymridon on the EP. Fred doubles the boss with the Silver Lance to kill him (I think Chrom got a DS for some additional EXP)

Turn 3 EP: The myrmidon suicides on Robin and she gets a nice level. Chapter complete!

5TEnXFE.png

I have screenshots but right now I'm too lazy to upload to imgur. They will be added eventually

Edited by ruadath

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Nice clear, bit more dangerous then what I did, but it works. Why didn't you pair Lissa earlier with Robin?

2 turn completion seemed impossible? You think my 3 turn chapter 2 strat will work out? Or settling with the 4 turn clear?

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I don't think Lissa can reach Robin on the first turn (actually I think she can but then she can't maneuver properly for healing on the next turn? It's a small change regardless), and I wanted her (Robin) to get the EXP from moving onto the fort.

The 3 turn completion almost certainly works for Chapter 2. Chrom levels up almost immediately and Fred gets A rank in lances soon after that so on turn 1 EP they destroy everything on the bridge and south of that except for 2 enemies who are out of range and are easily dealt with by Robin and co. After that Fred charges up north and uses the Elixir from Virion and is pretty good for surviving. The only tricky things after that are Chrom critting the boss on the DS (~45%,~8%) and saving as many Silver Lance uses as possible (it drops down to like 8 or 9 after turn 1). Fred gets to attack the boss from a fort on turn 3, so I don't think there is any need to worry about him surviving after the 1st EP.

Edited by ruadath

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Chapter 2

Note that for the first couple of turns the pictures have Stahl and Sully switched with regard to the descriptions. The descriptions are correct; the screenshots are just outdated


Turn 1 PP: Virion moves below Chrom and trades him the Elixir. Sully pairs up with Virion, Robin with Stahl, Lissa moves to where Robin was, and Stahl moves to the spot in the image below (to aggro an enemy who can't reach Fred) and switches to Robin. Fred pairs with Chrom, and they move up to attack the soldier with the Silver Lance. Chrom gets to D in swords.

jLWbGCx.png

Turn 1 EP: The myrmidon attacks Robin. A whole slew of enemies suicide on Fred+Chrom. Fred reaches A in lances, and both Fred and Chrom gain awesome level ups. Only 9 uses of Silver Lance remaining though!

PFldPYp.png

Turn 2 PP: Miriel pairs with Lissa, who moves below Robin and switches back to attack the myrmidon. Robin moves a step west and finishes him off (in position to aggro the barb). Vaike moves between the two of them, gets his Iron Axe, takes Lissa and switches to her so she can heal Robin.

XiE0a3T.png

Fred moves to the spot in the image below and heals himself by trading with Chrom. I was planning to use the Elixir, but as it turned out the Vulnerary worked out fine instead.

Qzbzdsl.png

Turn 2 EP: A barbarian, soldier, and myrmidon attack Fred, who is still equipped with the Silver Lance, and die (the last one needs a dual strike); Fred gets an Iron Lance from the soldier. The barbarian attacks Robin and sends her to level 6.

gVbd6YS.png

Just to give you an idea of what some of these levels look like lol.

jVgXEaa.png


Turn 3 PP: Stahl charges in and attacks the barb. Lissa exchanges Vaike with Sully and heals Robin. Miriem takes Sully, switches to her, and lets Sully attack to get D Lances. This is important! For RNG purposes, I then switch up north to Fred+Chrom, and move onto the fort to attack the boss. Fred's health is low, but nothing is going to touch him with his bonuses from the fort, support with Chrom, and outdoor skill, so I don't have to worry about him dying. He attacks the boss with his Iron Lance, and Chrom follows up with a Rapier crit. I really wanted to use the Bronze Sword so that Fred could hit C in swords, but he and Chrom aren't strong enough to take out the myrmidon if he only has the Bronze Sword equipped. Finally we go back down to Robin to finish off the barb (she takes Miriel's Fire).

tsw7IZs.png

Turn 3 EP: The last few enemies kill themselves of Fred+Chrom. Fred hits level 4!

u7PBDG1.png

On the world map, Robin and Sully get their C support. I doubt this will be important though.

UNIT     CLASS          LEVEL  HP STR MAG SKL SPD LCK DEF RES  WEXP
Chrom    Lord            2.91  21   8   1   9   9   6   7   1  D Swd
Robin    Tactician       6.35  24  11  10   9  13   4  10   6  E Swd D Tome
Lissa    Cleric          1.85  BASE                            E Stf
Fred     Great Knight    4.08  31  16   2  15  13   8  16   3  D Swd A Lnc D Axe
Virion   Archer          2.00  BASE                            D Bow
Sully    Cavalier        2.25  BASE                            E Swd D Lnc
Stahl    Cavalier        2.10  BASE                            E Swd E Lnc
Vaike    Fighter         3.00  BASE                            D Axe
Miriel   Mage            1.10  BASE                            E Tome

Supports:
Chrom x Frederick: C
Robin x Sully: C

The fact that Chrom is really close to level 3 is useful, because upon reaching there (and hitting 10 Spd), he provides another point of Spd in Pair Up bonuses. Also, as far as I can tell, Sully's D rank in Lances is essential to making the 3-turn clear of Chapter 3 work.

Only 6 uses of the Silver Lance remaining, and at least 2-3 get used in the next chapter, so I'm probably breaking it on "Marth" in Chapter 4. That's OK though, because after that I have access to "renown" (if I need it), and Ephraim's Lance is effectively a Silver Lance with a +2 Spd bonus.

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Outstanding Ruadath :XD: Bit disappointing you didn't nail the 2 turn clear on Chapter 1 ; ]

You did burn quite some Silver Lance uses this turn, but I believe you only need one use to kill "Marth" with. He can't double anyway and I think Robin will do better against him by now.

@Espinosa Boots get skipped (unless they save more turns than they cost, which is unlikely), but yes, GK!Chrom gives her the movement to kill weak Validar on turn 1, provided an 8 mov class.

Uhhhh doesn't that mean Chrom needs to be a Paladin? GK does have lower movement, according to SF just 6.

Guess Ruadath COULD go wild and abuse every inch of the game. Just get the 50k renown and the Boots :evil:

Last, but not least, would a 3 turn in chapter 3 not involve massive Door Key trades? Why did Sully need D-lances? Freddy kills everyone on his right (or left) with his speed by now. Get Kellam with Chrom, get the Javelin off Kellam to Frederick and watch everyone die. Knight dies to Robin. I don't see ANY combat for Sully... Did I miss something?

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GK gives +1 mov on pairup, it's all Robin needs to kill weak validar turn 1.

Edited by Gradivus.

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Wow, as long as Robin can keep picking up rigged levels at that pace, she should quite quickly become unkillable.


Uhhhh doesn't that mean Chrom needs to be a Paladin? GK does have lower movement, according to SF just 6.

Guess Ruadath COULD go wild and abuse every inch of the game. Just get the 50k renown and the Boots :evil:

It's not so Chrom can cart Robin over. GK gives +1 Move for pairing up, so as long as Robin is in an 8-Move class, Robin will have 9 Move and should be able to attack Validar from range.

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My 3 turn strat is kind of complicated to explain, but I don't think it matters because I think I screwed up anyway. I'm not sure Fred can kill the boss just by doubling her with the Silver Lance. I originally thought that 16 Str + 13 Mt (weapon) + 2 Atk (rank) + 2 Str (pair up) = 33 Atk would be enough to deal with the boss since she has 42 HP and 12 Def, but thinking on this further (I haven't actually checked), he probably gets a boost to Def from seize tile... so yeah I don't know. 10 Luck, so Fred can't crit her, and I don't think Sully can damage her on the Pair Up attacks either (even with the Iron Lance equipped)...

Edited by ruadath

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Yeah, she's on a Gate. IIRC, it's worth 3 Def/Res.

Too bad you can't get your hands on the Hammer drop. Is there any way you could do this with Robin, Miriel (tome Dual Strike) or Chrom (Rapier Dual Strike) as Fred's partner? If not, is there any way you can get Chrom onto the tile right behind Fred? Then you could transfer out Sully, swap and have Sully attack with the Javelin and rig for a Dual Strike (this is assuming that Miriel and Robin can't make it that far because they're busy doing other stuff). Another option for the second idea is if you can get a lone Virion up behind Fred and rig a Fred Dual Strike off of his attack.

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Actually, yeah I think it might out with Chrom paired up with Fred. The strategy is a little bit more complicated though, and this necessitates Robin nailing a 1% crit (though she has two tries) on one of the knights. Thankfully, there isn't a ton of other rigging besides dodges, although with this change Sully has to survive a difficult enemy phase on turn 2 without Frederick on her.

That brings me to a question; I saw this happen in my prologue clear, but will unpaired units automatically pair up with adjacent units when attacked? Or is it a chance? Like Sully will be next to Fred, so will she automatically pair up when she gets attacked? And will she get his Def/Spd bonuses? This is important for targeting priority stuff.

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