What makes your favorite FE lord your favorite?

[Rezzy]

I loved PoR Ike, but in RD he was too good. If that makes any sense. His chapters had no sense of dramatic tension, since we know the Greil Mercenaries are the Justice League and they can defeat anyone and solve anything. Ike having a cheerleaders in every nation doesn't help, either.

We then went from the Grey vs Black morality of part 1 to the Grey vs White morality of part 3. If the Ike/Laguz alliance was shown to have at least some faults, it would have helped the narrative.

[Magical Glace]

But because Ike has PoR, he's not a Stu (Sue is a female-only term). I never said Micaiah was actually a Sue, only that she feels too Sueish for my liking. Everyone around her worships her from the beginning, even the Daein people, she has unique abilities and traits even among other Branded, and she rather suddenly has this super big secret heritage. And then Micaiah is thrown aside by Yune later which just made her even worse to me. And to make things even further worse, this has made people hate on Ike when like I said, it was YUNE who stole the spotlight, not him. Ike was already in the spotlight as soon as he first appeared in the game. Micaiah came back in at the end of part 3, but then Yune came in part 4 and just made her feel almost redundant. I like Yune, don't get me wrong, but this was just poorly handled. So I also hate Micaiah because she made people hate Ike for imo, stupid reasons. It's not the only reason though, of course, that would be silly.

Fair enough, just wanted to make sure you knew the other side of the arguement

Oh and mind you, a secret heritage/history can work if done right (I've used the concept myself a couple of times), but for Micaiah, I felt it wasn't. I never saw any explanation for how she ended up in Daein or anything if she's the true Begnion apostle. She would've been better off as an actual Daein-born Branded.

Yeah, it really did come out of no where. Sanaki popping up in the epilogue all SISTER was really stupid. Though it was implied she was to be killed alongside Mis'aha (or whatever her name was) and was ferried to safety in Daein somehow, so there is some explanation as to how she got there, but it was still poorly done.

And as for RD Ike, I am also somewhat disappointed in how he was written, I wanted to see more growth and development for him. But thankfully, I was still entertained by his badassery and some of his lines. :P And his design, of course.

Fair enough, again, just wanted to show you the opposing argument

Bolded are my replies. Edited May 4, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[Anacybele]

I understand, I just wanted to show you my argument as well.

Believe me, I can understand people not liking how RD Ike was written and not liking him for that reason. But I never like when people say they hate Ike as a whole because of it. He was still excellent in PoR, after all... :(

I probably wouldn't have liked RD Ike that much myself if it wasn't for his design and a few funny lines and all like I said.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Anacybele

[Light Strategist]

Now, I've not played Radiant Dawn and don't currently have the ability to change that, but I can see that people are complaining about characters that got their character development in Path of Radiance and hating on them in Radiant Dawn because they can't develop any further.

I don't see the logic to it.

Certain characters make sense that they're developed when you consider their new way of thinking after the war in Path of Radiance, characters like Micaiah on the other hand, that didn't actively make any changes during PoR that the player is allowed to see until Radiant Dawn, get the opportunity to develop more because this time, we're allowed to see it.

As for characters like Sothe, that were in both but can still develop, I'd chalk that up to his younger age and lack of importance in PoR.

That's purely how I guess it's supposed to be.

[Rezzy]

Now, I've not played Radiant Dawn and don't currently have the ability to change that, but I can see that people are complaining about characters that got their character development in Path of Radiance and hating on them in Radiant Dawn because they can't develop any further.

I don't see the logic to it.

Certain characters make sense that they're developed when you consider their new way of thinking after the war in Path of Radiance, characters like Micaiah on the other hand, that didn't actively make any changes during PoR that the player is allowed to see until Radiant Dawn, get the opportunity to develop more because this time, we're allowed to see it.

As for characters like Sothe, that were in both but can still develop, I'd chalk that up to his younger age and lack of importance in PoR.

That's purely how I guess it's supposed to be.

It's so much the lack of new development, there's characters like Soren who had most of their development in in PoR, but I still love Soren.

Then there's characters who continue to develop, like Elincia, who continue to develop. I think it's largely due to Ike's absence for much of Elincia's story that she's allowed to develop. Once the Ike re-entered the narrative, the good guys just throw Ike at problems until they're solved.

I also preferred Ike's PoR model, but I don't find super muscular guys that attractive.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Rezzy

[Magical Glace]

I understand, I just wanted to show you my argument as well.

Believe me, I can understand people not liking how RD Ike was written and not liking him for that reason. But I never like when people say they hate Ike as a whole because of it. He was still excellent in PoR, after all... :(

I probably wouldn't have liked RD Ike that much myself if it wasn't for his design and a few funny lines and all like I said.

Most of my Ike hate is directed at FE10 Ike, since I overall prefer FE10 as a game. FE9 Ike is just whatever for me. Not Chrom/Robin/FE10Ike tier but not spectacular either.

So yeah.

Now, I've not played Radiant Dawn and don't currently have the ability to change that, but I can see that people are complaining about characters that got their character development in Path of Radiance and hating on them in Radiant Dawn because they can't develop any further.

I don't see the logic to it.

Certain characters make sense that they're developed when you consider their new way of thinking after the war in Path of Radiance, characters like Micaiah on the other hand, that didn't actively make any changes during PoR that the player is allowed to see until Radiant Dawn, get the opportunity to develop more because this time, we're allowed to see it.

As for characters like Sothe, that were in both but can still develop, I'd chalk that up to his younger age and lack of importance in PoR.

That's purely how I guess it's supposed to be.

The issue lies in that they, to an extent, got in the way of the newer characters time to shine. Micaiah was grossly overshadowed by Ike in Part III screentime, despite the name of the segment and the preview implying she will be as important. Then in Part IV, she just got completely shoved aside by Yune so by that point it's no longer even her game. She's not even allowed to kill Ashera, which would at least give her something resembling importance to the endgame.

It's just kinda insulting to the interesting sides of Micaiah we see in Part III, she's never really given the opportunity to explore her character in more depth. Which is a damn shame, imo.

[Quintessence]

But because Ike has PoR, he's not a Stu (Sue is a female-only term). I never said Micaiah was actually a Sue, only that she feels too Sueish for my liking. Everyone around her worships her from the beginning, even the Daein people, she has unique abilities and traits even among other Branded, and she rather suddenly has this super big secret heritage. And then Micaiah is thrown aside by Yune later which just made her even worse to me. And to make things even further worse, this has made people hate on Ike when like I said, it was YUNE who stole the spotlight, not him. Ike was already in the spotlight as soon as he first appeared in the game. Micaiah came back in at the end of part 3, but then Yune came in part 4 and just made her feel almost redundant. I like Yune, don't get me wrong, but this was just poorly handled. So I also hate Micaiah because she made people hate Ike for imo, stupid reasons. It's not the only reason though, of course, that would be silly.

Oh and mind you, a secret heritage/history can work if done right (I've used the concept myself a couple of times), but for Micaiah, I felt it wasn't. I never saw any explanation for how she ended up in Daein or anything if she's the true Begnion apostle. She would've been better off as an actual Daein-born Branded.

And as for RD Ike, I am also somewhat disappointed in how he was written, I wanted to see more growth and development for him. But thankfully, I was still entertained by his badassery and some of his lines. :P And his design, of course.

Although the praise Micaiah got has its foundation on the notion that she's like the only hope Daein has to be freed from Begnion opression, since there is not another figure that can defend the nation; Pelleas was kept hidden iirc or in secret and shows no leadership by earlygame, whereas Micaiah does. And there's also the tale of the Silver-Haired Maiden that will free their nation, that's why people follow her and love her as such.

And idk if people really understood RD's ending. People resume it as Ike blows Ashera and Micaiah got her ass kicked. In the end, it was Yune who stopped Ashera. If it weren't for Yune, Ike, Micaiah & Co would've died or be subject of Ashera's judgement. Ike and Micaiah where only the means to bring back peace and a new beginning. Micaiah was the vessel of the goddess of chaos, and Ike was used to deal the final blow. But the only thing people see is "Micaiah was shut down and Ike was the master of the show".

[Magical Glace]

Although the praise Micaiah got has its foundation on the notion that she's like the only hope Daein has to be freed from Begnion opression, since there is not another figure that can defend the nation; Pelleas was kept hidden iirc or in secret and shows no leadership by earlygame, whereas Micaiah does. And there's also the tale of the Silver-Haired Maiden that will free their nation, that's why people follow her and love her as such.

And idk if people really understood RD's ending. People resume it as Ike blows Ashera and Micaiah got her ass kicked. In the end, it was Yune who stopped Ashera. If it weren't for Yune, Ike, Micaiah & Co would've died or be subject of Ashera's judgement. Ike and Micaiah where only the means to bring back peace and a new beginning. Micaiah was the vessel of the goddess of chaos, and Ike was used to deal the final blow. But the only thing people see is "Micaiah was shut down and Ike was the master of the show".

Micaiah being the vessel made it so she had close to no lines of her own during IV. That was the problem with her role in the part. If Yune could manifest as her own thing (which she does speaking to Ike in the ending) there's no real reason for her to possess Micaiah to begin with. It's rather annoying.

[Quintessence]

Micaiah being the vessel made it so she had close to no lines of her own during IV. That was the problem with her role in the part. If Yune could manifest as her own thing (which she does speaking to Ike in the ending) there's no real reason for her to possess Micaiah to begin with. It's rather annoying.

Yeah but it was Yune's final moment and she was just vanishing so. But yeah, Micaiah had more to be squeezed, she has much more potential.

[Anacybele]

Although the praise Micaiah got has its foundation on the notion that she's like the only hope Daein has to be freed from Begnion opression, since there is not another figure that can defend the nation; Pelleas was kept hidden iirc or in secret and shows no leadership by earlygame, whereas Micaiah does. And there's also the tale of the Silver-Haired Maiden that will free their nation, that's why people follow her and love her as such.

Why do people think she's their only hope though? WHY? I never understood it. Is it because she has silver hair or something? They obviously don't know about her Brand or Sacrifice ability, otherwise they'd hate her guts because that's how Daeins (and pretty much all Tellius nations, in fact) are with Branded. They just blindly worship her and I always thought that was dumb.

Micaiah being the vessel made it so she had close to no lines of her own during IV. That was the problem with her role in the part. If Yune could manifest as her own thing (which she does speaking to Ike in the ending) there's no real reason for her to possess Micaiah to begin with. It's rather annoying.

^This is correct too.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Anacybele

[Loki Laufeyson]

Hector feels like a real person sometimes. Hes bullheaded, hot tempered, and reacts with the kind of vigor that a green boy his age would. He does and says things that arent completely goody-goody. His unwillingness to forgive Jaffar, his stubborn approach to learning of his brother's death, his unwillingness to back down after he learns his best friend is in danger. These make him a good character and a believable one.

Eirika comes in second because she also feels rather human. Shes really green and doesnt know her way around war. War scares her, overwhelms her, but her father was killed and her twin brother may be in danger. So she grits her teeth and tries to fight the best way she can. She makes mistakes when she acts from the heart, and thats ok. She also doesnt get her spotlight stolen in her route and i love that.

If Radiant Dawn had enough time to flesh out Micaiah more, she'd probably be the coolest lord when it comes to characterization. Shes really close in character to another really great literary fantasy character who deconstructs the idea of Chosen Princess.

[Quintessence]

Why do people think she's their only hope though? WHY? I never understood it. Is it because she has silver hair or something? They obviously don't know about her Brand or Sacrifice ability, otherwise they'd hate her guts because that's how Daeins (and pretty much all Tellius nations, in fact) are with Branded. They just blindly worship her and I always thought that was dumb.

^This is correct too.

Because they witness her powers, they see how she uses Sacrifice to heal a kid which is a talent a commoner doesn't have. The people in Daein won't rely on commoners like Nolan, Edward, Leonardo or Sothe who are simple citizens with self improvement, they see Micaiah as their Savior, which I don't have an issue with it. Besides, she keeps her Brand as a secret, she acknowledges the risk of being known as Branded. Edited May 4, 2016 by Quintessence

[Light Strategist]

Once the Ike re-entered the narrative, the good guys just throw Ike at problems until they're solved.

This sounds like my friend Jason when I play Smash Bros. with him...

[Shotguner159]

Why do people think she's their only hope though? WHY? I never understood it. Is it because she has silver hair or something? They obviously don't know about her Brand or Sacrifice ability, otherwise they'd hate her guts because that's how Daeins (and pretty much all Tellius nations, in fact) are with Branded. They just blindly worship her and I always thought that was dumb.

Because the Dawn Brigade were apparently literally the only ones fighting back against the Begnion Occupation Army.

A band of young heroes has escaped the Begnion army to form a group called the Dawn Brigade. Fighting for a free Daein, they alone have stood against Begnion’s forces. They alone have shouldered the hopes of their nation. Among the company is a young girl named Micaiah, who is said to possess mystical powers. The people of Daein have come to know her as the “Silver-Haired Maiden.” They have come to think of her as the savior for whom they had been waiting.

Micaiah is the most visible part of the five of them with her silver hair, while the others are relatively normal looking, so she's the figure Daein rallys behind.

She's not outright worshipped until after Izuka spreads propaganda about her and Pelleas working together in order to inspire Daein's citizens, in which he would include the various abilities he knows about, and after she's liberated a lot of Daein (Between Chapters 7 and 8, she liberates Talrega and seven other areas, in addition to the two we do).

I'm fairly sure that the first instance of proper worship is after Chapter 8, in which Micaiah walks into a known trap, without the aid of the army, and comes back with all the prisoners and that section of Begnion's army destroyed,so it's not like she did nothing.

She's helped along by precedent too. In Crimea's darkest hour, a saviour appeared with a previously unknown heir to the throne, and ousted the oppressors. Ike's respected by seemingly the entire continent by what he did for Crimea, and Micaiah just does the same for Daein in an even worse position, with various mystical abilities unexplainable by the normal rules of magic and without help from other countries, with the exception of eight individuals. The various mystical abilities also have precedent: The Apostle of Begnion, and Begnion's Holy Knights belief in Sanaki is directly compared to Daein's belief in Micaiah.

And my favourite Lord is also Micaiah, because of her early snark, and because her actions get called into question frequently, and suffers consequences because of said actions, and because she sticks to her convictions. She doesn't want to fight the Laguz Alliance, and even encourages Sothe to join up with Ike, but because she trusts Pelleas and is the leader of the Army, she does anyway.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, I guess it pretty much is just because she has silver hair and "mystical powers." This is still dumb to me and a reason I hate her. The Crimean people didn't start thinking much of Ike until he showed up with an army and won some battles and stuff.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Anacybele

[Jave]

I have to say, the Micaiah love in this thread makes me happy. I still remember when she was the most hated character in the series, but it seems the fandom has come a long way since then.

And yes, Miccy is my favorite Lord too, mainly because I find her more interesting than all other lords, and in a game with a really flawed plot, she is basically a character that makes things happen and manages to keep everything interesting. It's nice to root for the underdog for once, and facing nearly impossible odds in most of her chapters in quite a breath of fresh air.

Leif is second best because he literally has to build an army out of nothing with barely any support from any sort of royalty or higher ups. The guy basically has to sneak his way back to his homeland with everything against him, and even after taking his home castle back he has to defend it against a gigantic enemy army. The way he grows as a character is also great.

[Shotguner159]

Yeah, I guess it pretty much is just because she has silver hair and "mystical powers." This is still dumb to me and a reason I hate her. The Crimean people didn't start thinking much of Ike until he showed up with an army and won some battles and stuff.

What. She was a thorn in the Occupation Army's side prior to the start of the game, stealing from them to give to the people who lived in Nevassa, and served as both general and tactican of the Liberation Army, an army that took back a great deal of Daein from the occupation army, and got most of its troops from freeing Daein's soldiers from prisons and work camps. They don't worship her until after Chapter 8, the pre-chapter narration of which reveals that she and the army have taken Talrega and other locations, in addition to Terin and Umono.

Micaiah did things. Don't reduce her to just hair and powers because you don't like her. That respect and worship comes from her fighting against the Occupation Army. The hair and powers help yes, but if she didn't fight it wouldn't exist. Daein didn't respect Pelleas because Micaiah was doing all the work fighting back.

[Anacybele]

What. She was a thorn in the Occupation Army's side prior to the start of the game, stealing from them to give to the people who lived in Nevassa, and served as both general and tactican of the Liberation Army, an army that took back a great deal of Daein from the occupation army, and got most of its troops from freeing Daein's soldiers from prisons and work camps. They don't worship her until after Chapter 8, the pre-chapter narration of which reveals that she and the army have taken Talrega and other locations, in addition to Terin and Umono.

Micaiah did things. Don't reduce her to just hair and powers because you don't like her. That respect and worship comes from her fighting against the Occupation Army. The hair and powers help yes, but if she didn't fight it wouldn't exist. Daein didn't respect Pelleas because Micaiah was doing all the work fighting back.

lol. Way to take what I said completely out of context. Everybody is worshiping her from the very start of the game, before ANY of that happens. This is what I find stupid.

The proof is in the opening cutscene. The guard says "Silver hair! If it's the fortune teller, we'll be heroes!" that means she's already gotten a reputation for whatever reason. It's dumb to put so much faith in someone just because of her hair color or fortune telling or healing powers.

Micaiah is poorly written and I've seen many people agree with this. Just try to accept it.

EDIT: Jave, I'm pretty sure she still is one of the most hated.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Anacybele

[Jave]

The thing is that Micaiah has done things prior to the beginning of the game, which is why she already has a reputation and the guards recognize her. People have witnessed her and the Dawn Brigade fighting the Begnion troops, where apparently no one else, at least in Nevassa, has managed to do the same. When you are a group of five people and you're the only ones fighting for your country, you tend to get noticed.

The Silver Hair nickname was likely given to her by her followers because they needed a name to identify her and since silver hair on a young woman is not something particularly common in Tellius then I guess the name caught on. They don't worship her BECAUSE of the hair.

So yeah, Micaiah doesn't gain a reputation for no reason. She did things, which the game does in fact tell us, but it doesn't go into detail on what that was.

[Kon]

lol. Way to take what I said completely out of context. Everybody is worshiping her from the very start of the game, before ANY of that happens. This is what I find stupid.

The proof is in the opening cutscene. The guard says "Silver hair! If it's the fortune teller, we'll be heroes!" that means she's already gotten a reputation for whatever reason. It's dumb to put so much faith in someone just because of her hair color or fortune telling or healing powers.

Micaiah is poorly written and I've seen many people agree with this. Just try to accept it.

EDIT: Jave, I'm pretty sure she still is one of the most hated.

Did you read the whole quote though? The rest of it explains why she had a reputation:

"If it's the fortune-teller, we'll be heroes! Without her, the Dawn Brigade is nothing."

The Dawn Brigade was an already well established force before the start of the game. She's being targeted specifically for being the leader of the resistance group rather than having special hair or powers. Of course, those unusual traits are bound to make her far more noticeable than a regular mercenary ~o3o~

[Anacybele]

I didn't say the silver hair was the only reason people worshiped her. Her fortune telling and healing abilities are a reason too. And I think all of that alone are dumb reasons to put so much faith into her. It's like having all of Crimea put complete faith into Ike just because he's the son of a former Daein Rider/strong mercenary leader.

Micaiah to me has a lot of forced one-of-a-kind traits that make her feel too Sueish to me. She's not a complete Mary Sue, but she's too close to one for my liking, that is all I've been saying this whole time.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Anacybele

[Jave]

Bear in mind that the people of Daein become pretty desperate and hopeless after the Begnion takeover, so they kinda NEED someone to believe in. And when Micaiah and Co. are the only ones actually getting shit done, it's evident the people will see them as their saviors.

This is all pretty obvious, honestly. Pretty sure the game actually tells you this at one point.

[Kon]

???

She leads a well known resistance force that has been pretty well single-handedly fucking shit up for the Begnion occupation force and becoming a local hero in the process, and it's later discovered that she has actual foresight and can heal without a stave, something that's straight up impossible to do, even by the most gifted healers.

I mean yeah she does get some pretty Sue-ish traits but that doesn't mean that the praise she gets is entirely undeserved jeesh

[Shotguner159]

lol. Way to take what I said completely out of context. Everybody is worshiping her from the very start of the game, before ANY of that happens. This is what I find stupid.

The proof is in the opening cutscene. The guard says "Silver hair! If it's the fortune teller, we'll be heroes!" that means she's already gotten a reputation for whatever reason. It's dumb to put so much faith in someone just because of her hair color or fortune telling or healing powers.

Micaiah is poorly written and I've seen many people agree with this. Just try to accept it.

Apologies. I'd say my mouth outsped my brain but we're typing, so I don't have that excuse. I did fail to consider the earlier context of the conversation, and considered your post by itself. My bad.

A reputation gotten by giving back what the Occupation army takes to Daein's citizens, by foiling attempts to capture her and the others by seeing the future and healing the sick and injured through Sacrifice, if the Occupation Army knowing about it is any indication. Micaiah is not Ike. She's not the newest member of a group of mercenaries in a mostly peaceful country. She's an important figure of the only group fighting back against a horribly oppressive regime. They put their faith in her not because of her hair and abilities, but because she's one of the few fighting back and using those abilities to help those in need and to hamper Begnion. Her having those abilities alone wouldn't get respect, but using them to help the people of Daein, and fight back against Begnion does.

And I wouldn't call it worship at the start. Later on, when they adorn her with titles, and believe they can't lose as long as she fights with them sure, but at the start? Jarod, who's been in charge of the Occupation Army in Nevassa for a while, only finds out about her because he sees the Dawn Brigade fleeing, and later just imprisons her rather than killing her despite bein murder happy. If she was worshipped then, wouldn't he have seen her as too dangerous to let live?

Course, this might just be a semantics thing, since I only think of it as worship when Daein's pratically deified her, before then I just see it as a great deal of respect for what she does.

And yeah, she's poorly written, but that doesn't mean I should dismiss this as bad writing and move on, since it is explainable.

[Anacybele]

I mean yeah she does get some pretty Sue-ish traits but that doesn't mean that the praise she gets is entirely undeserved jeesh

I know, I did say before that I thought she had the potential to be a great character. Meaning that I wanted to like her. She has one of my favorite designs in the series as well (I actually loosely based a Zelda OC's design off of hers). But in the end, IS utterly dropped the ball with her, imo.

Jave and Shotguner: You'd probably think I was just blatantly ignoring you both if I didn't say something to you two, which is understandable, so I'll just say that I'm not sure how to continue the conversation at this point. I'm not admitting "defeat" or trying to dodge something or anything of the sort, I just really don't have anything more to say, I guess. We'll all just have to agree to disagree in the end, really.

Although frankly, I feel like RD wants you to compare Micaiah to Ike. Elincia and Bastian do so themselves. So that's why I kind of do. And I feel Micaiah wasn't done as well as Ike was in PoR.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Anacybele