Who do you think is the best villain in the series?

[The Draco Knight]

My issue with Lyon is that his presence is very absent for a massive majority of the game. The twins randomly flash back to him when they were kids every now and then but as a villain he only shows up in like the last six chapters and spends almost the entire time running away and looking very sick. The writing's still good and they do amp up the tragedy, we even get two characterasations but as far as antagonists go, someone fighting against the protagonists and wanting their destruction, I just don't feel it with Lyon. Good character perhaps but not a good villian. If I was to blame anything it'd be Sacred Stone's relatively short plot compared to the other games. He needed a few more chapters to breath as a villian.

Now Caellach, that's someone I was really feeling as a villain. Cool, casual and dangerous. The kind of guy that'd murder you in a second but you could also have a good drink with. And in terms of achievement he was totally pulling more weight than every other villain in the game.

It depens: in the Ephraim's path, he doesn't want to truly destroy them, but the opposite(he want them to stop him), since he is aware of being controlled.

In the Eirika's path, It's not "Lyon vs the Siblings", but "Demon king vs the siblings", since we are no talking to Lyob, but Fomortiis himself, who just wanted to revive himself.

I apologize if I misunderstood you comment.

Anyway, my favorite villain has to be the already mentioned Lyon because I can undestand him, I can understand how it feels to be weak, to be afraid of not being able to live up to the people's expectacion and we also have similar personality.

However, I really like him as a character too: we get to know and to grow fond of him before we even know he is responsible of what happened in the game thanks to the flashback and, because of that, It can be quite difficult to land the final blow on him.

So, he may not be the best villain ever, but I think Lyon is a very good example of how to make a tragic villain.

[Jotari]

Wait, seriously? I was mostly about hp, but why the fuck does the FINAL BOSS not have the highest stats?

Note, I said Radiant Dawn, the sequel game which features another tier of promotion. In that game Ashera does indeed beat out the Black Knight in stats (though if he had access to Luna...) but she's a god so doesn't fulfill the human criteria.

It depens: in the Ephraim's path, he doesn't want to truly destroy them, but the opposite(he want them to stop him), since he is aware of being controlled.

In the Eirika's path, It's not "Lyon vs the Siblings", but "Demon king vs the siblings", since we are no talking to Lyob, but Fomortiis himself, who just wanted to revive himself.

Yeah, I've played both paths and I'm aware of the different characterisation, but I still feel Lyon's as a villain appears pretty quickly and doesn't have enough time to truly make an impact for me. As I said though, the issue probably comes more down to Sacred Stones being too short a plot than anything specifically about the writing regarding Lyon.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Jotari

[blah the Prussian]

Note, I said Radiant Dawn, the sequel game which features another tier of promotion. In that game Ashera does indeed beat out the Black Knight in stats (though if he had access to Luna...) but she's a god so doesn't fulfill the human criteria.

Yeah, I've played both paths and I'm aware of the different characterisation, but I still feel Lyon's as a villain appears pretty quickly and doesn't have enough time to truly make an impact for me. As I said though, the issue probably comes more down to Sacred Stones being too short a plot than anything specifically about the writing regarding Lyon.

Oh, sorry. I was just looking at POR. As you said, RD has an unfair advantage due to the three tiers.

[Raguna]

Lyon and Arvis are really the only main villains I can say were evil with understandable reasons for what they did without it devolving into a Freudian excuse. Although, Arvis did go a bit too far in the end and Lyon straddled the fine line as well, but they're both pretty sympathetic by the end of their respective stories.

[SSbardock84]

I voted Medeus because I mean, come on he's a fricking dragon. He always seemed like an ideal villain choice but besides him I'd say King Ashnard. The Mad King seemed like perfect villain to me as well. Who doesn't love a good tyrant using his people to spread chaos throughout the land?

[blah the Prussian]

Isn't this bit completely retconned in RD tho when it explains all of the things Sephrian did to release the Goddesses?

Okay shit I didn't see this until now, sorry about that.

Right, but here's the thing: Ashnard and Sephiran always had the same goal, just for different reasons. Ashnard always wanted the Dark Godess to be released, so, even though he was helping Sephiran achieve his goal, if he did know he would have had no problem with it, and it was his goal anyway. He wasn't being manipulated, and although Sephiran was using him it wasn't really in any way Ash and would object to.

[Irysa]

Where's Gharnef?

In the absence of Gharnef I'm forced into a three way tie between Lyon, Arvis and Hardin. I do like Ashnard's role and goals in FE9, but in a vaccum as an antagonist I don't think he holds up particularly well; he needs the context of the rest of the game to be worth anything.

Arvis on paper wins out of the remaining three for concept, but I feel his execution is pretty lacking. Lyon has really nice execution but lacks true antagonistic qualities. Hardin hits all the right spots but is a bit barebones.

I geninuely can't think of Sephiran as an antagonist. I realise that's kind of the point but he's even worse than Lyon at actually being contemptible in some manner, which is a quality I think villains should have. It's probably to do with his demeanour being altogether too agreeable, and his general lack of presence in much of the story. There's not enough of a struggle between him and the protagonists, there's no real battle of ideas, he just loses and that's the end of it or has his mind changed somewhat awkwardly in the extended ending.

EDIT: Sod it, voting Fomortiis in protest. I think seperating Lyon and Formotiis is silly, because Lyon himself is kind of absent and really just a sympathetic puppet. Formotiis may just be manipulating what's there but I think the combined elements of The Demon King and Lyon are what make Lyon good, as Formotiis' manipulative dickery is balanced with Lyon's patheticness. So I guess the vote is more specifically for "The Lyon that is under the influence of The Demon King", as opposed to "The nice kid Lyon who dun goofed" or "Pure evil bad guy Formotiis". That's basically what I like about Gharnef too. Though again, a better executed Arvis would still win out.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Irysa

[SageHarpuiaJDJ]

Gonna be that one guy and vote Gangrel since I don't have a lot of experience with the others.

Of all of the three, Gangrel was probably the more interesting since he didn't want to rule the world, but just wanted revenge for what Chrom's father did to his people. I like that simple goal, and the fact that he himself didn't need to kill a huge character to cause him to be a threat. I also feel that his suffering was on par with Emmeryn's, only the result was him wanting vengeance for himself and his people. He was a good leader to his people since he help feed the rage that they felt as well, and there wasn't any objections until Emmeryn killed herself.

I also think that Lyon was a good antagonist, but he's swept the board at this point.

[blah the Prussian]

Gonna be that one guy and vote Gangrel since I don't have a lot of experience with the others.

Of all of the three, Gangrel was probably the more interesting since he didn't want to rule the world, but just wanted revenge for what Chrom's father did to his people. I like that simple goal, and the fact that he himself didn't need to kill a huge character to cause him to be a threat. I also feel that his suffering was on par with Emmeryn's, only the result was him wanting vengeance for himself and his people. He was a good leader to his people since he help feed the rage that they felt as well, and there wasn't any objections until Emmeryn killed herself.

I also think that Lyon was a good antagonist, but he's swept the board at this point.

I somewhat agree, but I feel the writers were very confused as to what they wanted Gangrel to be. For example, he later said that his motivation was to unite the continent against Walhart, which was an obviously stupid motivation. Also, he just wasn't given enough humanizing moments for it to be believable that he was driven by hated and a true love for his people, as opposed to just insanity. But of all the three Awakening villains Gangrel certainly had the most potential, so he has that I guess.

[Noni]

I would like to see the Black Knight and Takumi in this Poll. Maybe Xander too.

The Black Knight has certainly the most Spotlight from all Tellius-Villains and is the most importan Villain for Ike. Takumi and Xander are the most antagonistic Siblings in Fates and the ones, that you have to kill, while Elise and Ryoma die for you. Takumi is even the Endboss. Gharnef is missing as well.

[Just call me AL]

Voted Arvis for reasons already explained earlier. But I would have liked to see Idun on here. The girl didn't want any fighting between her own dragon tribe and any others, and stayed behind because of it. And because she stayed behind, she got kidnapped, got turned into a Naga Tribe's own version of a Shadow Dragon, and got her own personality literally rewritten when she wanted out. And even with that considered, there's so much that we don't know about her. Granted, that might not be villain material. But still.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Just call me AL

[Paiphu]

I cant believe no one has picked Walhart yet

[Magical Glace]

I cant believe no one has picked Walhart yet

Is it really that hard to believe? He's directly associated with one of the worst plot arcs in the series, and has very little real relevance.

And the competition includes Lyon and Arvis, I don't think he really stands much chance.

[valieruswanderer]

Lyon. I found myself almost unwilling to fight him after i learned his motivations. Plus his demon armies almost made short work of my team.

Next was Valdar, Nergal and Zephiel. Garon doesn't even make the list.

[Thane]

Just going to quote myself from another topic about villains.

I can only speak for Fire Emblem 1, Gaiden and the localized games, so the choice is obvious: Sacred Stones. Lyon is the only villain actually done really well in all of the Fire Emblem games I've played - others may be interesting or have potential, but there's always a big, fat "but" accompanying those bad guys. Lyon, on the other hand, has a solid backstory, an established personality, comprehensible motives that still lead to questionable acts and then good interactions with the protagonists.

Really, it's sad they seem to have done their best to move away from a villain that's so heavily involved with the protagonists and the story as a whole; hell, just compare Lyon to Ashnard, who Ike doesn't even recognize before the final battle starts.

It'd be really impressive, had it not been so sad, just how much Lyon outshines every other villain from the Fire Emblem games that I've played.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Thane

[Lady Sansa]

The Begnion senators since they were completely vile and the game really made you want to see them suffer.

Most villains are too cartoonishly evil to care about.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Lyon is great. The protagonists have a strong personal connection to him (and the nuances of the connection are different for each character), we have a backstory which shapes the way he acts, and the "just how much is him and how much is the Demon King" is always fun. Terrific stuff.

Honourable mention to Sephiran, who has a very, very sensible reason to act the way he does. I think most of the major RD villains play their assigned roles pretty well... in contrast to Ashnard who is one of the stupidest villains in the series. (Yes, let's just abandon our home country... I'm sure none of my own soldiers will have any issues with their families being subjugated back home while I sit my ass on the throne of Melior. Armour of invincibility is an incredibly stupid plot point, too.)

Most of the rest are pretty terrible tbh.

[BANRYU]

IDK if the massive entities like Fomortiis and Grima should be included on a list like this; as far as their role in the story goes, they're more of the 'force of nature' type of character, whose villainous intent is more just a given and unavoidable part of their existence. They're not so much an actual villain driving the plot as they are a looming entity or more of a plot device, based on my understanding.

That said, I voted for Lyon for pretty obvious reasons haha.

Edited December 15, 2016 by BANRYU

[geraq]

I think Lyon is the best written antagonist in the series, at least among the ones I saw.
The time devoted to its backstory as opposite to its time as a "villain" makes him a character one can understand and even relate to. His motivations are always clear, and it is indeed very tragic to be unable to save him. His feelings for Eirika and his envy for Ephraim are very well developed, and sometimes it is difficult to tell if it is the Demon King who is talking or it is the darkest part of Lyon's soul. I don't think other villain has a chance against him as a character. His human weaknesses were the reason for his fall into darkness, much like in Hardin's case, but I don't like Hardin as much as a villain because he feels like a completely different character as emperor and I didn't see his inner struggle until the end. I'm talking about Hardin in FE3, as I haven't played FE12.

I don't know if Gharnef gets any character development in FE11, but in FE1 and FE3 he is just that evil wizard who wants to resurrect a big demon/dragon and destroy the world. Manfloy is not much different, although he might be a demented religious zealot. I'm not a big fan of Nergal either, his motivations seem very shallow, but it is true that at least he interacts with the protagonists and represents a threat, even if he is more like a Power Ranger villain. And for Ashnard, he gets points for his dialogue trying to explain that he is a jerk and likes to be jerk, but I wouldn't say he is a terribly interesting or well developed character.

As my irrational hype for Radiant Dawn is slowly dimishing after I beat it I can finally see that it did no good to the characterization of Ashnard and the Black Knight. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the attempt of humanizing the Black Knight and giving him motivations, it didn't seem believable and barely made sense. Ashera is more a plot device than a character and in my opninion she doesn't have (or need) much development as such. I can't say much about Sephiran, I didn't play FE10 on its 2nd playthrough yet but I read a little about him. I can't say I like his development very much or that it makes much sense to me.

I couldn't get to see Alvis in the 2nd generation, but he did a good job in being a dastard in the 1st generation. Most of the villains in FE4 were utterly despicable and easy to hate, but I'm not sure about if they actually were interesting characters in the first place. Like the Begnion senators, who are evil just for the sake of being evil, and are also very easy to hate and very pleasant to kill. I don't know, maybe I'm confusing "good villain" with "good character". Gameplay-wise, I think Ashnard was the most fun to fight, and the most enjoyable to defeat.

[Leonarth]

Out of the ones I have played, I think Walhart deserves a mention for being a villain that isn't just an "I'm evil lol" villain in a story where everyone else pretty much was. From what I understand, he isn't the only one in the series, with Lyon being the first example that comes to mind, but I like Walhart because he was doing it for ultimately good reasons. He was trying to end all wars by conquering everyone else to prevent any wars. Obviously, this wouldn't work, but I think Walhart works because he has a set of beliefs that he follows adamantly.

When you recruit him, he follows Chrom because he believes that the strong leads. This means that in Walhart's eyes, Chrom wins because he is stronger and follows the "better path" or in other words, Chrom's path must be right because Chrom won. This is part of why I like him as a villain, he doesn't seek redemption by following Chrom, he follows what he believes is right. He didn't get seduced by evil intentions or man's greed for power or anything like that, he does what he feels he must to achieve what he believes to be right.

Only real problem is that Awakening's story telling isn't the best and that you only figure most of this out from supports between Walhart and Robin, and that the majority of it can only be accessed after playing a paralogue just before endgame, but details I guess.

[HylianBelmont]

Hmm... It's actually pretty hard to choose between Medeus, Fomortis/Lyon and Anankos for my favourite villain in the series honestly. Because they're all pretty interesting/intimidating in their own way IMO. However I think I gotta go with the Demon King though! If only because he was the final boss of the first FE game I ever beat (totally unbiased right? Haha)

Also honourable mention for Iago. Not because I think he's a particularly great villain or anything (he's alright I suppose) but because of how entertaining his voice is! You can tell whoever it was that voiced him had the time of his life playing the character XD

[Levin's Scarf]

Out of the guys listed I would say Sephiran. He's committed crimes that attributed to the misery of so many, but he's also a sympathetic character. He's been through so much. He lost his home, his family, his sense of self... everything. He tried his best to help everyone on Tellius but he kept getting hurt time and time again. He took so many heartbreaks before he inevitably fell apart and decided that the world was not worth it. What's interesting is his battle quotes, as he's goading people into killing him. It's evident that he's such a scarred and tired soul.

I love multi-faceted characters.

[bethany81707]

I decided to go with Arvis. The narrative does a good job of making him hateable, but unlike most villains, you can't blame him for his actions. All the time, he's thinking about what's best for his kingdom- and to the best of his knowledge, becoming Emperor and marrying Deirdre were perfectly reasonable courses of action. When he learns of his errors, he continues to do what he believes is right, even if he has to give his own life to do so.

Honestly, aside from the fact that he married his already-married half-sister, it's kind of debatable how 'evil' he is. He's a good character, but...

[Armadillo8]

Is Lyon actually considered a villain? He has good intentions and the "bad Lyon" is just Fomortiis manipulating/controlling him. I'd go with Lyon, but I don't really see him as "evil". So I guess I'll just go with Fomortiis...

Edited January 6, 2017 by Mariode

[Thane]

Is Lyon actually considered a villain? He has good intentions and the "bad Lyon" is just Fomortiis manipulating/controlling him. I'd go with Lyon, but I don't really see him as "evil". So I guess I'll just go with Fomortiis...

Good intentions only get you so far; I consider Nohrrin to be a villain as well.

Lyon is a tragic villain, but a villain nonetheless because of his actions.