Jump to content
gnubz

How you’re still completely missing the point of Azama’s character (and why, yes, he is smarter than you):

Recommended Posts

Yes. Azama is absolutely hysterical. He’s the antithesis of a traditional holy man– impatient, condescending, and a bully. Now, now. I know what you’re thinking: He’s a monk but a dick! Of course that’s why he’s funny! He’s a hypocrite! However, best put in his wise words, “I’m sorry that you’re totally wrong about everything.”

Azama’s cruel behavior corresponds to his personal philosophy more than you understand. Despite it being the wildly common claim, he’s actually not a nihilist. Azama’s an absurdist.

Absurdism is the third, lesser-known sibling to existentialism and nihilism.Existentialists believe humans can imbue meaning to life while nihilists think life is intrinsically meaningless and trying to ascribe some kind of meaning is futile and irrational. Yet it could be said that absurdists are like a paradoxical combination of the two schools of thought. Absurdists believe that while life is indeed intrinsically meaningless, one ought pursue the experience of life itself anyway– to live on in spite its contradictions and dilemmas.

One can “reject” the absurd in two ways: 1) suicide and 2) religion. Suicide outright denies the experience of living, and to place faith in a religion is to willingly stay ignorant about the ultimate insignificance of a life. [x]
But Azama’s a monk!

Yes, yes. I hear you, and you see, that’s exactly how Azama has embraced the third option: to accept the absurd. He’s not necessarily a pious monk. (Whether it be enemy soldiers or bears, he has no qualms over killing.) Furthermore, he originally became a monk in hopes to mitigate his horrible temper. In meditation, Azama has found something that works for him, and he’s making use of his time being a monk with the full awareness that him being a “holy man” utterly holds no value. That’s why he doesn’t take being a monk and a healer and a retainer seriously. He may realize he’s smarter than most, but he also realizes that he’s truly no holier-(or-more-important)-than-thou. He never questions his comrades for their morality, just their stupidity.

Arguably, he’s the most grounded character. Because instead of establishing a god-complex for all his talents and imparting his knowledge onto simpler minds, he doesn’t give two shits about anything since he knows no creation is any more more special than the next. So who is he to try and pretend like he’s someone better?

Azama’s a dick because…might as well get some cheap laughs out of a ride you didn’t sign up for. Right? [x]

~~~

Whoever worked on Azama for the localization deserves a huge bonus– they did their philosophy homework! See?! I’m learning something as a philosophy major in college! [ugly cries]

post-23578-0-63768600-1462318234_thumb.png

post-23578-0-46613900-1462318240_thumb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do find this interesting but I am a bit skeptical. Considering how Fates turned out, I am reluctant to think that the writers actually put that much thought into any character. I seriously think they exhausted themselves writing some of the more well-written characters like Takumi, Forrest, Leo and Niles.

If they did put this much thought into Azama, I applaud them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So he's a dick just because he wants to be, and we should applaud him for it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no, op, i am sorry, an anime character in a poorly written game is not smarter than me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

None of this changes how I feel towards Azama, though. Regardless of his motives, he still ends being a bully to many of the characters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course he's not a monk: he's a Sohei.

 

Here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sōhei

 

Some of these guys weren't really religious to begin with.


Monk/holy man, the philosophical argument for absurdism considers it all the same.

 



I do find this interesting but I am a bit skeptical. Considering how Fates turned out, I am reluctant to think that the writers actually put that much thought into any character. I seriously think they exhausted themselves writing some of the more well-written characters like Takumi, Forrest, Leo and Niles.

If they did put this much thought into Azama, I applaud them.

Fates isn't perfect, far from it. I get it. But it's pretty harsh to totally dismiss the localization team like that. It's their job do this, and I think someone on the team probably took a shine to Azama and paid him special attention.

 



None of this changes how I feel towards Azama, though. Regardless of his motives, he still ends being a bully to many of the characters.

Absolutely fair. Makes me adore him more though.

 

MODEDIT: don't doublepost, yeah, but also don't triplepost

Edited by Integrity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so since i actually read the op you're basically just saying "yeah he's a dick, but he's actually a dick for no reason and that's why he's a well-written character"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fates isn't perfect, far from it. I get it. But it's pretty harsh to totally dismiss the localization team like that. It's their job do this, and I think someone on the team probably took a shine to Azama and paid him special attention.

I did word that pretty harshly. While I do respect the localization team and appreciate their efforts, I still am a bit skeptical about Azama. Like, I said, though, I applaud them if they did give Azama the kind of depth you explained; it just gets bogged down by his presentation in his supports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand how this proves he's smarter than anyone, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

something that does not exist in real life can not be smarter then someone that does exist in real life.

simply because they do not exist, inb4 this gets moved to far away from the forest.

i already made this post but pithier and better, loser, get back in line

EDIT: also this isn't going to fftf because i feel that op is arguing in good faith, it's just a bad argument, not trolling

Edited by Integrity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all these definitions of existentialist philosophy schools suck and ignore all of the nuance of the thought, thanks op

i'm just gonna drop this here

"There is no justification for life, but also no reason not to live. Those who claim to find meaning in their lives are either dishonest or deluded. In either case, they fail to face up to the harsh reality of the human situations." - Donald A. Crosby, a well known existential nihilist

azama is a video game character and also can't be smarter than a live being, lmao

Edited by Knight of Argentum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i already made this post but pithier and better, loser, get back in line

EDIT: also this isn't going to fftf because i feel that op is arguing in good faith, it's just a bad argument, not trolling

First, sorry about the triple post. I'm like two weeks fresh into the forum.

Second, the title is kind of snarky, sure, but it's meant to be humorous. I'm not actually calling anyone dumb. Don't be quick to get offended and belittle the post because you don't like the title. My point to was to show that Azama's a dick, but there's a valid argument to be had about his behavior. I'm not shitposting arguing he's best husbando.

all these definitions of existentialist philosophy schools suck and ignore all of the nuance of the thought, thanks op

i'm just gonna drop this here

"There is no justification for life, but also no reason not to live. Those who claim to find meaning in their lives are either dishonest or deluded. In either case, they fail to face up to the harsh reality of the human situations." - Donald A. Crosby, a well known existential nihilist

azama is a video game character and also can't be smarter than a live being, lmao

You're not countering anything significant. You're just being pedantic and passing it off as a legit rebuttal. And I don't get what you're trying to prove with the quote. Existential nihilism isn't a contradiction. It's a subset of nihilism. It just means he's taking a platform and saying the existence of humanity in its entirety is nothing special.

Edited by gnubz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well the forum ate that post so i'll summarize

the title is dumb, but the post is also dumb, and it boils down to he's a dick, but because he's a dick for no reasons he's actually a representative of this deep school of philosophical thought that you're only shallowly presenting here and is therefore actually deep and well-written, when the truth of it is that he's just a dick and you're trying to justify liking him.

EDIT: #jmo

Edited by Integrity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, sorry about the triple post. I'm like two weeks fresh into the forum.

Second, the title is kind of snarky, sure, but it's meant to be humorous. I'm not actually calling anyone dumb. Don't be quick to get offended and belittle the post because you don't like the title. My point to was to show that Azama's a dick, but there's a valid argument to be had about his behavior. I'm not shitposting arguing he's best husbando.

trying to appeal to emotion while trying to prove something with evidence and examples is a bad combination of attic and asiatic arguments, op

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is nice and all, but that topic title looks like click-bait garbage.

Next thing we know, we'll get "Top 10 reasons Azama is a better character than Xander" or something along those lines.

Not trying to knock you, TC. I'm just taking the piss out of all this (which is probably what Azama would do, if I'm understanding your post).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BuzzFeed Presents 10 Ways You Can Just Totally Tell Leo Is A 90's Kid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oops i missed this

You're not countering anything significant. You're just being pedantic and passing it off as a legit rebuttal. And I don't get what you're trying to prove with the quote. Existential nihilism isn't a contradiction. It's a subset of nihilism. It just means he's taking a platform and saying the existence of humanity in its entirety is nothing special.

first of all, it's not even a remotely serious reply, and taking it as such is pretty lame

second of all, the point i was making is that you defined azama as an absurdist because of his interpretation on creating meaning within a meaningless existence, the quote from a well known existential nihilist, a philosophy you were disqualifying azama from, said the same thing

which boils down in a serious reply to:

he's actually a representative of this deep school of philosophical thought that you're only shallowly presenting here and is therefore actually deep and well-written, when the truth of it is that he's just a dick and you're trying to justify liking him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is nice and all, but that topic title looks like click-bait garbage.

Next thing we know, we'll get "Top 10 reasons Azama is a better character than Xander" or something along those lines.

Not trying to knock you, TC. I'm just taking the piss out of all this (which is probably what Azama would do, if I'm understanding your post).

Eh, looking back, the title should've been different. I'll admit. No hard feelings, but now I'm just realizing Serenes Forest isn't the place for post like these since it seems like people are more interested in being the most correct rather than discussions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BuzzFeed Presents 10 Ways You Can Just Totally Tell Leo Is A 90's Kid

if I make this thread how long will I get banned

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oops i missed this

first of all, it's not even a remotely serious reply, and taking it as such is pretty lame

second of all, the point i was making is that you defined azama as an absurdist because of his interpretation on creating meaning within a meaningless existence, the quote from a well known existential nihilist, a philosophy you were disqualifying azama from, said the same thing

which boils down in a serious reply to:

Right, but there is that nuance of thinking you were talking about before. It seems Crosby is saying that just because you're a nihilist doesn't mean you ought to off yourself since your life is a random blip in the universe. Deciding to live on is perfectly in line with nihilism-- just so long as you never forget that your life is pointless. Absurdism, on the other hand, is accepting that life is pointless but simultaneously rebelling against it anyway.

Edited by gnubz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if I make this thread how long will I get banned

If you found 10 things we could dubiously interpret as evidence then I'd be really proud of you

If you just made 10 things up and threw some blingee in, then, hell, I'd still be proud of you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh, looking back, the title should've been different. I'll admit. No hard feelings, but now I'm just realizing Serenes Forest isn't the place for post like these since it seems like people are more interested in being the most correct rather than discussions.

sf isn't a very good place for discussions typically, you're right, but you still haven't even tried to convince me that your argument is anything but what i reduced it to, dude. the blame might not lie with "literally everyone else" in this case.

EDIT: if all you really want is a philosophy debate, go make a philosophy debate topic. trying to impose it on a video game character, insisting he's the one well written side character in a terribly written video game, just makes you look really bad.

Edited by Integrity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...