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Thoughts about the new weapon system

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So now that the game has been out for a while, what are your opinions on the new weapon system? Here's what I think:

Pros

  • The nerf to javelins and hand axes was a great idea and honestly should have been implemented in earlier games
  • I know people here might disagree with me, but weapon durability ceased to be an important feature the moment they allowed you to purchase weapons in between chapters so removing it made sense
  • The buffs/debuffs that weapons give you adds a new dimension to game
  • Weapons that modify the double attack threshold are nifty
  • Hidden weapons were a nice addition

Cons

  • Hidden weapons are a tad bit too effective since there's no way to remedy the debuffs that they inflict on you
  • The stat penalty from using silver weapons are a bit too high, so much so that players may forgo using them in favour of forged iron weapons
  • Raijinto and Siegfried are far too strong, completely disregarding the rules of this new weapon system on top of giving their users a stat boost

All in all, I liked the new weapon system. It had a few flaws, but that was to be expected since this is their first attempt at doing it (ignoring Gaiden, which was a bit of a clusterfuck). I hope that they keep it for the next game and try to fix some of the flaws.

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So now that the game has been out for a while, what are your opinions on the new weapon system? Here's what I think:

Pros

  • The nerf to javelins and hand axes was a great idea and honestly should have been implemented in earlier games
  • I know people here might disagree with me, but weapon durability ceased to be an important feature the moment they allowed you to purchase weapons in between chapters so removing it made sense
  • The buffs/debuffs that weapons give you adds a new dimension to game
  • Weapons that modify the double attack threshold are nifty
  • Hidden weapons were a nice addition

Cons

  • Hidden weapons are a tad bit too effective since there's no way to remedy the debuffs that they inflict on you
  • The stat penalty from using silver weapons are a bit too high, so much so that players may forgo using them in favour of forged iron weapons
  • Raijinto and Siegfried are far too strong, completely disregarding the rules of this new weapon system on top of giving their users a stat boost

All in all, I liked the new weapon system. It had a few flaws, but that was to be expected since this is their first attempt at doing it (ignoring Gaiden, which was a bit of a clusterfuck). I hope that they keep it for the next game and try to fix some of the flaws.

Of course the two weapons would be too strong: storyline-wise, they're holy weapons. Like, say, the Falchion. Then again, they're character-locked and by virtue of being a katana, Raijinto makes Ryoma squishier. On the flip side, beast killers, wolfskin and kitsunes can do Xander in. But yeah, hidden weapons are kinda too effective. Their implementation in RD was much better, personally.

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So now that the game has been out for a while, what are your opinions on the new weapon system? Here's what I think:

Pros

  • The nerf to javelins and hand axes was a great idea and honestly should have been implemented in earlier games
  • I know people here might disagree with me, but weapon durability ceased to be an important feature the moment they allowed you to purchase weapons in between chapters so removing it made sense
  • The buffs/debuffs that weapons give you adds a new dimension to game
  • Weapons that modify the double attack threshold are nifty
  • Hidden weapons were a nice addition

Cons

  • Hidden weapons are a tad bit too effective since there's no way to remedy the debuffs that they inflict on you
  • The stat penalty from using silver weapons are a bit too high, so much so that players may forgo using them in favour of forged iron weapons
  • Raijinto and Siegfried are far too strong, completely disregarding the rules of this new weapon system on top of giving their users a stat boost

All in all, I liked the new weapon system. It had a few flaws, but that was to be expected since this is their first attempt at doing it (ignoring Gaiden, which was a bit of a clusterfuck). I hope that they keep it for the next game and try to fix some of the flaws.

The first two issues are addressed by the Clarity skill, to an extent (Clarity allows the user to recover stats from debuffs twice as fast).

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So now that the game has been out for a while, what are your opinions on the new weapon system? Here's what I think:

Pros

  • The nerf to javelins and hand axes was a great idea and honestly should have been implemented in earlier games
  • I know people here might disagree with me, but weapon durability ceased to be an important feature the moment they allowed you to purchase weapons in between chapters so removing it made sense
  • The buffs/debuffs that weapons give you adds a new dimension to game
  • Weapons that modify the double attack threshold are nifty
  • Hidden weapons were a nice addition

Cons

  • Hidden weapons are a tad bit too effective since there's no way to remedy the debuffs that they inflict on you
  • The stat penalty from using silver weapons are a bit too high, so much so that players may forgo using them in favour of forged iron weapons
  • Raijinto and Siegfried are far too strong, completely disregarding the rules of this new weapon system on top of giving their users a stat boost

All in all, I liked the new weapon system. It had a few flaws, but that was to be expected since this is their first attempt at doing it (ignoring Gaiden, which was a bit of a clusterfuck). I hope that they keep it for the next game and try to fix some of the flaws.

*Daggers/Shurikens have overall very low damage output unless you were to try to do bonus damage (ie Sting Shuriken and Hunters Knife). The debuffs were meant to balance out the low damage by causing debuffs to the victim to let your Shuriken/Dagger users to do more damage. You could argue that abusing the debuffs that your opponent gets for non-Shuriken/Dagger users you have to net easier kills isn't really needed.

*Statues exist and can compensate for the Silver Weapon stat drawbacks after use for a decent time. A +7 Silver Sword has 23 Might, around 110 Hit and 8-9 Crit. You have at least a good number of turns before you actually start missing your target due to a lower Skill Stat. Really, a Str/Skl-2 or Mag/Skl-2 is the least damaging drawback to using them. You get a powerful weapon at the side-effect of losing power per use you use it until you stop using a Silver Weapon on that user to let your stats increase back to normal.

*Raijinto and Siegfried aren't that dangerous. In all reality, without Raijinto, Ryoma wouldn't even stand as a candlestick against Bow-users or Tome-users since his HP Growths are average and his Def/Res Growths aren't that great. Raijinto actually is one of the only features that make him a good unit and not be another generic Swordmaster. Siegfried doesn't really make Xander that much stronger, he still takes a ton of damage from a Beast Killer even with his personal sword equipped/in his inventory. It just helps him become less of a prime target for magic-users due to his rather below-average Res Growth and slightly average Res Stat as a result. I'm surprised that you're talking about two of the lesser extreme weapons and not talking about Fujin Yumi (Takumi only) and the upgraded Yato variations (all Yato forms are locked to Corrin only). The former is broken due it allowing the user to move across any terrain that you can have your units move across with no movement penalty (you can camp on mountains where other units can't reach you so easily). The latter is basically Raijinto and Siegfried up to eleven outside of it not being able to attack at a distance not taking into account that Corrin breaks the game's overall difficulty in half.

Of course the two weapons would be too strong: storyline-wise, they're holy weapons. Like, say, the Falchion. Then again, they're character-locked and by virtue of being a katana, Raijinto makes Ryoma squishier. On the flip side, beast killers, wolfskin and kitsunes can do Xander in. But yeah, hidden weapons are kinda too effective. Their implementation in RD was much better, personally.

Actually, RD was much worse in regards to SS-Rank Weapons. You had a bunch of overpowered weapons that made the endgame on Hard Mode (NA) easier than PoR's Hard Mode (NA). The worst offender was the Double Bow in RD, 1-3 attack range on a Marksman and 1-2 attack range on a Silver Paladin. That combined with a 22 Might and a +3 Str boost makes using a Marksman far too powerful for non-Laguz units, thankfully PoR and Awakening Double Bow got nerfed. Ragnell and Alondite in PoR and RD are far worse offenders than Raijinto and Siegfried if we're comparing/contrasting weapon inconsistencies regarding power stats as the Tellius swords are much stronger and far more useful. The only Tellius SS-Rank Sword that is actually 'fair' is the Vague Katti (low damage but high Hit and Crit Rate in PoR but higher damage and average Hit at a cost of lower Crit in RD). Wishblade is also a overly-buffed Spear with a huge attack power and a fairly big Hit Rate. Urvan is just a buffed forged Silver Axe. The only SS-Rank weapons that were logically reasonable in Tellius were the SS-Rank Tomes due to the Weight System which caused a good number of the reasonable users to suffer from an AS loss if they didn't get good growths for better stats (Ilyana, Soren, Tormod, Callil, Laura and Bastion are the only SS-Tome users who you normally get that aren't boss-only that have enough Str Growths to overcome their AS loss).

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The only complaint I have is the removal of weapon durability and the new weapon effects system.

Because, quite frankly, if you spend anytime forging and visiting others' My Castles it's null and void.

For reference: a steel weapon costs 2000 gold. An iron weapon costs 1000 gold. An Iron +1 weapon costs 2000 gold and one specific gem; it has one less might than the steel weapon, but ten more hit and none of the speed or evasion penalties. It's basically the same deal with Iron +2 and Silver; costs the same + a few gems for slightly less might yet none of the drawbacks.

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The first two issues are addressed by the Clarity skill, to an extent (Clarity allows the user to recover stats from debuffs twice as fast).

Should've probably clarified this, but most DLC classes/skills/whatever tend disrupt the balance of the game and really should not be taken into consideration.

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Should've probably clarified this, but most DLC classes/skills/whatever tend disrupt the balance of the game and really should not be taken into consideration.

Oops. Anyways, I'd consider the Hexing Rod's effect far worse than any debuff.

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Actually, RD was much worse in regards to SS-Rank Weapons. You had a bunch of overpowered weapons that made the endgame on Hard Mode (NA) easier than PoR's Hard Mode (NA). The worst offender was the Double Bow in RD, 1-3 attack range on a Marksman and 1-2 attack range on a Silver Paladin. That combined with a 22 Might and a +3 Str boost makes using a Marksman far too powerful for non-Laguz units, thankfully PoR and Awakening Double Bow got nerfed. Ragnell and Alondite in PoR and RD are far worse offenders than Raijinto and Siegfried if we're comparing/contrasting weapon inconsistencies regarding power stats as the Tellius swords are much stronger and far more useful. The only Tellius SS-Rank Sword that is actually 'fair' is the Vague Katti (low damage but high Hit and Crit Rate in PoR but higher damage and average Hit at a cost of lower Crit in RD). Wishblade is also a overly-buffed Spear with a huge attack power and a fairly big Hit Rate. Urvan is just a buffed forged Silver Axe. The only SS-Rank weapons that were logically reasonable in Tellius were the SS-Rank Tomes due to the Weight System which caused a good number of the reasonable users to suffer from an AS loss if they didn't get good growths for better stats (Ilyana, Soren, Tormod, Callil, Laura and Bastion are the only SS-Tome users who you normally get that aren't boss-only that have enough Str Growths to overcome their AS loss).

I was talking about how knives were implemented in RD: actual knives could attack at a 1-2 range, while daggers could only attack at close range. If we made the daggers/kunai stronger, but unable to debuff foes and the knife/shuriken weapons as they are, but with slightly weaker debuffs to enemies...

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Mostly agreed with OP.

While the new system is mostly good, it does have a few problems. In addition to what OP mentioned, I'll add:

-Weapon experience takes too long to earn and base E-rank skill on new weapon types makes using high ranked weapons a slog.

-Bronze weapons shouldn't exist and/or make promoted classes have a minimum D-rank in weapons.

In regards to Hidden Weapons, I like the idea of a weapon type that is for support in combat rather than your hardest hitting weapon, but they made them too strong. A Shuriken has only 2 less might than a Katana but it can attack at 1-2 range without penalties (which is huge, considering how ranged swords/axes/lances work now), buff your speed by 2 and can give devastating stat drops (-4 speed/defense/resistance on Silver Shuriken).

Edited by NekoKnight

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I was talking about how knives were implemented in RD: actual knives could attack at a 1-2 range, while daggers could only attack at close range. If we made the daggers/kunai stronger, but unable to debuff foes and the knife/shuriken weapons as they are, but with slightly weaker debuffs to enemies...

Ok, that makes a lot more sense. The OP mentioned the imbalance of the unique weapons and the overall stronger Silver weapons and I thought your response to him was directed on how 'less' broken those weapons were compared to the likes of the A+ Rank weapons (A, S and SS) in the Tellius series. In RD, you only had 3 Knife/Dagger users and only one of them is actually considerably useful since the other two will end up being a fragile speedster who will less likely get hit by non-bosses (Heather) but have less useful offensive potential or be more balanced but be overshadowed by the much stronger variant (Soth is weaker than the badass Volke). Knives outside of the S-Rank weapon are weak which suits their use, sniping enemies. Daggers range from average (Heather) to great (Sothe) to insanely broken (Volke) depending on the character chosen to use them. In comparison of both Raijinto and Siegfried in Fates to Tellius/Awakening:

*Raijinto is a slightly stronger PoR Vague Katti with the ability to attack at a distance and the Strength boost from Awakening's (the nerfed Tellius' Double Bow aka PoR Double Bow) Double Bow.

*Siegfried is an expy of Ragnell and Alondite due to a sword that can attack close-up and at a distance of 2-tiles while granting the user a Defense buff if it is equipped/in the user's inventory.

Mostly agreed with OP.

While the new system is mostly good, it does have a few problems. In addition to what OP mentioned, I'll add:

-Weapon experience takes too long to earn and base E-rank skill on new weapon types makes using high ranked weapons a slog.

-Bronze weapons shouldn't exist and/or make promoted classes have a minimum D-rank in weapons.

In regards to Hidden Weapons, I like the idea of a weapon type that is for support in combat rather than your hardest hitting weapon, but they made them too strong. A Shuriken has only 2 less might than a Katana but it can attack at 1-2 range without penalties (which is huge, considering how ranged swords/axes/lances work now), buff your speed by 2 and can give devastating stat drops (-4 speed/defense/resistance on Silver Shuriken).

Including enemy-only as well, the debuff factor could be nerfed (read Inevitable End on enemies who can debuff you and Staff Savant for staff/rod-users who can do the above as well) for the enemy-only units.

Excluding enemies with enemy-only skills, the debuff factor isn't that bad, you can't stack debuffs to the same stat. At any given time, the lowest a debuff can cause a unit (not to the HP) is a -4 penalty, you can't debuff a victim's stat to anywhere past -4. If a unit has recovered 1 point for example (debuff is now at -3), being debuffed would cause the penalty to go back to -4. Dagger/Shuriken users in Fates tend to have average Def/Res stats and slightly above-average HP stats, not taking into account stat growths for every Shuriken/Dagger unit available which can make things more or less situational.

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*Daggers/Shurikens have overall very low damage output unless you were to try to do bonus damage (ie Sting Shuriken and Hunters Knife). The debuffs were meant to balance out the low damage by causing debuffs to the victim to let your Shuriken/Dagger users to do more damage. You could argue that abusing the debuffs that your opponent gets for non-Shuriken/Dagger users you have to net easier kills isn't really needed.

*Statues exist and can compensate for the Silver Weapon stat drawbacks after use for a decent time. A +7 Silver Sword has 23 Might, around 110 Hit and 8-9 Crit. You have at least a good number of turns before you actually start missing your target due to a lower Skill Stat. Really, a Str/Skl-2 or Mag/Skl-2 is the least damaging drawback to using them. You get a powerful weapon at the side-effect of losing power per use you use it until you stop using a Silver Weapon on that user to let your stats increase back to normal.

*Raijinto and Siegfried aren't that dangerous. In all reality, without Raijinto, Ryoma wouldn't even stand as a candlestick against Bow-users or Tome-users since his HP Growths are average and his Def/Res Growths aren't that great. Raijinto actually is one of the only features that make him a good unit and not be another generic Swordmaster. Siegfried doesn't really make Xander that much stronger, he still takes a ton of damage from a Beast Killer even with his personal sword equipped/in his inventory. It just helps him become less of a prime target for magic-users due to his rather below-average Res Growth and slightly average Res Stat as a result. I'm surprised that you're talking about two of the lesser extreme weapons and not talking about Fujin Yumi (Takumi only) and the upgraded Yato variations (all Yato forms are locked to Corrin only). The former is broken due it allowing the user to move across any terrain that you can have your units move across with no movement penalty (you can camp on mountains where other units can't reach you so easily). The latter is basically Raijinto and Siegfried up to eleven outside of it not being able to attack at a distance not taking into account that Corrin breaks the game's overall difficulty in half.

Actually, RD was much worse in regards to SS-Rank Weapons. You had a bunch of overpowered weapons that made the endgame on Hard Mode (NA) easier than PoR's Hard Mode (NA). The worst offender was the Double Bow in RD, 1-3 attack range on a Marksman and 1-2 attack range on a Silver Paladin. That combined with a 22 Might and a +3 Str boost makes using a Marksman far too powerful for non-Laguz units, thankfully PoR and Awakening Double Bow got nerfed. Ragnell and Alondite in PoR and RD are far worse offenders than Raijinto and Siegfried if we're comparing/contrasting weapon inconsistencies regarding power stats as the Tellius swords are much stronger and far more useful. The only Tellius SS-Rank Sword that is actually 'fair' is the Vague Katti (low damage but high Hit and Crit Rate in PoR but higher damage and average Hit at a cost of lower Crit in RD). Wishblade is also a overly-buffed Spear with a huge attack power and a fairly big Hit Rate. Urvan is just a buffed forged Silver Axe. The only SS-Rank weapons that were logically reasonable in Tellius were the SS-Rank Tomes due to the Weight System which caused a good number of the reasonable users to suffer from an AS loss if they didn't get good growths for better stats (Ilyana, Soren, Tormod, Callil, Laura and Bastion are the only SS-Tome users who you normally get that aren't boss-only that have enough Str Growths to overcome their AS loss).

While I agree with you that Ragnell/Alondite were broken, the difference between them and Raijinto/Siegfried was that there were still many weapons in Tellius that could attack from range without penalty, in addition to the fact that you got those weapons in the penultimate chapters of the PoR/RD while Xander and Ryouma join you around the half way point. Aside from Raijinto/Siegfried, 1-2 range weapons in Fates either:

  • Suffer from having very low Mt (Hidden weapons and Tomes)
  • Prevent you from doubling, while making it easier for you to get doubled
  • Prevent you from activating crits or skill

Or all of the above. Raijinto/Siegfried suffers from none of this, while giving their users a stat boost. This on top of being able to attack most enemies on player phase without worrying about a counter attack while yourself being able to counterattack nearly every unit on enemy phase makes Raijinto and Siegfried the best weapons in the game, even better than Omega Yato, which still leaves you a sitting duck for ranged enemies

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I was actually really relieved by the removal of weapon durability. I've always found that a cheap way to make a game harder, and I always found it more of an annoyance than an enhancement to the strategy of the game, especially when like you said you can get new weapons between every chapter. Plus, I felt like it made forging weapons a pretty wasteful idea. All in all, I think there is more strategy and though involved in the forging and distribution of weapons when they don't break on you after a set number of uses.

Raijinto and Siegfried, I am on the side of saying they are holy weapons and kind of should be broken. However, it also bothers me how not all the signature royal weapons get the same treatment, since Fujin Yumi and Brynhildr really weren't that spectacular. It would've been nice to see Raijinto and Siegfried brought down and at the same level as an elevated Fujin Yumi and Brynhildr.

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While I agree with you that Ragnell/Alondite were broken, the difference between them and Raijinto/Siegfried was that there were still many weapons in Tellius that could attack from range without penalty, in addition to the fact that you got those weapons in the penultimate chapters of the PoR/RD while Xander and Ryouma join you around the half way point. Aside from Raijinto/Siegfried, 1-2 range weapons in Fates either:

  • Suffer from having very low Mt (Hidden weapons and Tomes)
  • Prevent you from doubling, while making it easier for you to get doubled
  • Prevent you from activating crits or skill

Or all of the above. Raijinto/Siegfried suffers from none of this, while giving their users a stat boost. This on top of being able to attack most enemies on player phase without worrying about a counter attack while yourself being able to counterattack nearly every unit on enemy phase makes Raijinto and Siegfried the best weapons in the game, even better than Omega Yato, which still leaves you a sitting duck for ranged enemies

If that's your point, Raijinto is worse than Siegfried. Xander's Speed Growth and overall Speed Stat is below-average without additional speed statues (not taking DLC skills into account), so he most likely won't be doubling enemies with 22 Speed more more unless you grind to make his Speed better. Siegfried isn't that bad as Xander is still somewhat handicapped. Ryoma on the other hand is just broken as he has an in-built crit ratio and can double non-Swordmasters/Elite Ninjas with relative ease. Ok, stat-boost wise, best weapons available are debatable, versatility-wise then yes, Siegfried and Raijinto are superior than Omega Yato (outside of Corrin being able to use other weapon and just use the Yato as a stat booster).

I was actually really relieved by the removal of weapon durability. I've always found that a cheap way to make a game harder, and I always found it more of an annoyance than an enhancement to the strategy of the game, especially when like you said you can get new weapons between every chapter. Plus, I felt like it made forging weapons a pretty wasteful idea. All in all, I think there is more strategy and though involved in the forging and distribution of weapons when they don't break on you after a set number of uses.

Raijinto and Siegfried, I am on the side of saying they are holy weapons and kind of should be broken. However, it also bothers me how not all the signature royal weapons get the same treatment, since Fujin Yumi and Brynhildr really weren't that spectacular. It would've been nice to see Raijinto and Siegfried brought down and at the same level as an elevated Fujin Yumi and Brynhildr.

Brynhildr turns Leo into a fantastic magical tank. Put in Aegis and Quixotic and you can possibly (if the game does it) get a 75% damage reduction from tome/scrolls. Fujin Yumi benefits Takumi as he can move into areas that ground (non-mounted) units can't reach if he's going to be surrounded. Fujin Yumi seems to be the weakest divine weapon in terms of potential even with the attack power rivaling that of Raijinto (with the Str boost, Raijinto and Fujin Yumi both have 15 Might).

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If that's your point, Raijinto is worse than Siegfried. Xander's Speed Growth and overall Speed Stat is below-average without additional speed statues (not taking DLC skills into account), so he most likely won't be doubling enemies with 22 Speed more more unless you grind to make his Speed better. Siegfried isn't that bad as Xander is still somewhat handicapped. Ryoma on the other hand is just broken as he has an in-built crit ratio and can double non-Swordmasters/Elite Ninjas with relative ease. Ok, stat-boost wise, best weapons available are debatable, versatility-wise then yes, Siegfried and Raijinto are superior than Omega Yato (outside of Corrin being able to use other weapon and just use the Yato as a stat booster).

Brynhildr turns Leo into a fantastic magical tank. Put in Aegis and Quixotic and you can possibly (if the game does it) get a 75% damage reduction from tome/scrolls. Fujin Yumi benefits Takumi as he can move into areas that ground (non-mounted) units can't reach if he's going to be surrounded. Fujin Yumi seems to be the weakest divine weapon in terms of potential even with the attack power rivaling that of Raijinto (with the Str boost, Raijinto and Fujin Yumi both have 15 Might).

Wait, when you say Raijinto is worse, do you mean that it's more broken? If that's the case, I fully agree with you. It's widely agreed upon that Ryoma is a stronger unit than Xander.

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Wait, when you say Raijinto is worse, do you mean that it's more broken? If that's the case, I fully agree with you. It's widely agreed upon that Ryoma is a stronger unit than Xander.

Well, yes that is what I was going to get to but you reached it before I could say it. I was talking about Ryoma with Raijinto and Xander with Siegried while the two are in their base classes (Swordmaster and Paladin respectfully). Ryoma can double just about anything not named a nearly Spd capped Swordmaster/Elite Ninja but can casually OTKO anything not named a final boss with Dragonskin 95% of the time. Ryoma has the Skl/Spd Growths and stats to do that while having enough Str Growth and stats to wreck just about any competition from a non-Corrin unit he faces (I mentioned Corrin like this due to how much reclass potential they have which ruins the competition in comparison/contrast). Xander on the other hand suffers with getting enough Speed to double anything with 22 Speed at the least due to his below-average Spd Growths hindering his average max Spd stat. Ryoma is more of a vanguard-unit, send him out and have him decimate the enemies. Xander is more of a steady wall, with Siegfried, he can tank a good number of physical blows before needing to be healed (he's basically an 'Effie' (one of your two best non-mounted walls) but mounted with less speed growths than the actual unit (Effie herself). He can't double enemies so easily without grinding and/or statues, but he can do a surprisingly high amount of damage to very bulky Defensive walls without trigger skills and/or crits.

Silver Weapons wouldn't be bad, if they only reduced Str (Sword/Axe/Lance/Bow/Beaststone) or Mag (Tome/Scroll/Dragonstone) by a few points per use until you stop using said weapons to let your stats recover. I don't know what to say about the debuffs from the Daggers/Shurikens at this rate, seems that everyone has covered what I would say and that I can quite easily agree that the debuff mechanic could be more refined and balanced. Generally the smithing mechanic makes using +5+ smithed weapons hard since you're draining a lot of materials just to make one powerful weapon. On this side of the topic, +4+ Steel/Silver weapons (B and A-Rank weapons) either rival or are stronger than the divine weapons and S-Rank Weapons outside of the useful benefits that the divine weapons boast.

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The only complaint I have is the removal of weapon durability and the new weapon effects system.

Because, quite frankly, if you spend anytime forging and visiting others' My Castles it's null and void.

For reference: a steel weapon costs 2000 gold. An iron weapon costs 1000 gold. An Iron +1 weapon costs 2000 gold and one specific gem; it has one less might than the steel weapon, but ten more hit and none of the speed or evasion penalties. It's basically the same deal with Iron +2 and Silver; costs the same + a few gems for slightly less might yet none of the drawbacks.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I am NOT impressed by Fates' forging system in the slightest, in large part since weapons are much more expensive relative to previous titles - 2 grand for a +2 boost at +1? I'd feel gypped, in all likelihood.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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I think it's vastly superior than the older system which has always felt archaic to me. That being said, it's in need of some tweaks, like for instance with the hidden weapons which are far too effective.

I also wish for a wider variety of Beaststones.

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Hidden Weapon is kinda bullshit. With powerful class representative, its essentially the one man army weapon ALA Javelin and Hand Axe we all know and love. From what i heard this is what happened with Birthright, in that even without Ryoma you still had Saizo and Kagero taking a sizable hordes during EP with 1-2

Heck even in Conquest we can see a glimpse of how broken it is through the hands of Kaze. When Kaze fits the map, he cleans em up. Chapter 19, Chapter 22, and Chapter 26 had a section of the map where its literally Kaze solo

Even with a weak class repressentative, Hidden Weapon can debuff stats for easier picking. This make it the only weapon that is effective regardless.

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[spoiler=Sorry, this got kinda longer than expected, longpost in the spoiler]

So now that the game has been out for a while, what are your opinions on the new weapon system? Here's what I think:

Pros

The nerf to javelins and hand axes was a great idea and honestly should have been implemented in earlier games

Yeah, I can sorta agree with this. Feel like it went a bit too far (maybe if they'd just prevented doubling?), but I'm okay with 1-2 range swords/lances/axes getting some nerfs.

I know people here might disagree with me, but weapon durability ceased to be an important feature the moment they allowed you to purchase weapons in between chapters so removing it made sense

I agree.

Wasn't certain I would going into Fates, but I like how this was done.

The buffs & debuffs could've been balanced better, but they're good enough this time around.

The buffs/debuffs that weapons give you adds a new dimension to game

Weapons that modify the double attack threshold are nifty

I liked these. Actually made me consider my weapon choices (though in the end I just went Iron/Killer/Effective, unless I was going Corrin in which case I just went Yato/Dragonstone/don't need anything else, but the fact that I actually thought about moving to the more powerful weapon means the negative effects of the more powerful weapons were certainly felt).

Although I do hate the halves-STR/MAG-after-use weapons, those never saw use from me.

Hidden weapons were a nice addition

Yeah. I have quibbles with their implementation, but on the whole I love having another weapon option (though I kinda hoped we'd get guns...).

Cons

Hidden weapons are a tad bit too effective since there's no way to remedy the debuffs that they inflict on you

Yeah, a Restore staff or a weapon effect that passively removed debuffs faster would've been nice.

Or the debuffs could've maybe been a tiny bit lower, but that's more a problem I have with the Seal skills than with Daggers/Shuriken (seriously, -6 to a stat? That could've been lower and still have been worthwhile. On the same note, I kinda wish Draconic Hex was just -2 or -3 to all stats)

The stat penalty from using silver weapons are a bit too high, so much so that players may forgo using them in favour of forged iron weapons

I forwent (is that a word?) them in favor of unforged Iron weapons, since I didn't remember I had a smithy for the longest time.

But yeah, it does feel a bit much. Maybe if it only applied when the user initiated the attack? (Or if the debuff for using it on enemy phase were less than using it on player phase? Or perhaps if one of the stats that got lowered weren't Skill (maybe Luck?)?)

Having said that, I honestly didn't use Silvers often, so I dunno how exactly their debuff worked. So I could be wrong about all of this.

Raijinto and Siegfried are far too strong, completely disregarding the rules of this new weapon system on top of giving their users a stat boost

Yeah, this. There was no point to ever giving Ryoma or Xander anything else, because they came with their amazing holy weapons from the halfway point of the game. Maybe if they came later (pre-release, I seriously expected Xander to join in the final few chapters with really good stats, and maybe could've seen Ryoma doing something similar), or if their weapons had some kind of drawbacks (for example, if Raijinto granted STR +2 and DEF & RES -5 (would've been -4, but it's a katana, so I added another -1) (making Ryoma squishier if he decides to pull out his 1-2 range sword), and Seigfried granted DEF & RES +2 and SPD -5 (to make Xander more durable when he equips it, at the cost of making him more likely to get doubled)... Dunno how balanced that would be, but it's just a thought). Oh, and only give them the buffs (and nerfs, if they were given any) when they have Raijinto/Seigfried equipped, because it strikes me as odd that these weapons would give boosts just for being in their inventories on top of all the other benefits they give Ryoma and Xander.

All in all, I liked the new weapon system. It had a few flaws, but that was to be expected since this is their first attempt at doing it (ignoring Gaiden, which was a bit of a clusterfuck). I hope that they keep it for the next game and try to fix some of the flaws.

Yeah, I'm hoping they'll fix some of the flaws in the system for FE15.

Perhaps give the Killer weapons some drawback? For example, lowered DEF/RES (like the Brave weapons... Which I kinda wish lowered your speed instead of your defenses, since you're already guaranteed multiple attacks with them)? They feel a bit too good to me as they are now.

Also, here's one thing you didn't mention (possibly because it maybe isn't related to the new weapon system) that I liked:

The new weapon triangle was a pretty neat addition, in my opinion. I liked Tomes and Bows being integrated into the triangle (it kinda bugged me that they were never on the triangle in the older games, mostly Bows since magic had its own triangle sometimes).

EDIT: Oh, and this:

I think it's vastly superior than the older system which has always felt archaic to me. That being said, it's in need of some tweaks, like for instance with the hidden weapons which are far too effective.

I also wish for a wider variety of Beaststones.

This, alongside another Dragonstone or two (a Dragonrune, because it bugs me that one of those doesn't already exist, and one that allowed you to attack at 1-2 range), would be nice, though I'm not sure what exactly other Beaststones would have for effects. Edited by ILikeKirbys

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I was actually really relieved by the removal of weapon durability. I've always found that a cheap way to make a game harder, and I always found it more of an annoyance than an enhancement to the strategy of the game, especially when like you said you can get new weapons between every chapter. Plus, I felt like it made forging weapons a pretty wasteful idea. All in all, I think there is more strategy and though involved in the forging and distribution of weapons when they don't break on you after a set number of uses.

Agreed - in general, my big gripe with durability is that it encouraged hoarding, and at worst, can even result in people outright refusing to use anything that can't be easily replaced; hell, Awakening tried to avert Too Awesome to Use, and imo, didn't even do that good a job of it.

Edited by Levant Mir Celestia

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I think it's vastly superior than the older system which has always felt archaic to me. That being said, it's in need of some tweaks, like for instance with the hidden weapons which are far too effective.

I also wish for a wider variety of Beaststones.

Yeah, the weapon system has remained mostly the same for more than twenty years (with the exception of RD)

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I'd also like to add that while hidden weapons are useful for you, they are much more useful for the enemy due to their large numerical advantage over you.

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I agree that Javelins and Hand Axes needed a nerf and I was hoping for that from the beginning. The magic weapons might have replaced them, alongside, hidden weapons, but I'm not really sure. There's pretty hefty penalties for using them, but their Mt is really high. Granted, there's not a lot of units who are really exceptional with them and the supply of them was quite limited so, I'm not really sure if they're in need of a nerf. For hidden weapons, I think the problem may be that they gave Saizo and Kagero too much Str. Enemy Ninja are more or less just debuffers unless they're attacking player squishies. Saizo and Kagero both have strong enough offense that if they're keeping up in levels, they can easily just mash enemies, which leads to the problem with hidden weapons becoming like the old Javelins/Hand Axes. I think Kaze more or less got it right and the problem with him soloing things is that some of the map design relies on just spamming mages to make that section dangerous. Since hidden weapons are more or less engineered to mash mages and Kaze has good Res, well... I guess another possible way to nerf them would be to make it so they can only double on PP, but I feel like balancing the player characters would be the better approach.

I could take or leave the durability removal. It removes some strategy and replaces it with something less balanced, but more interesting, so it sorta evens out.

I think my biggest issue with the system is forging. Random gems aside, the static boosts make the improvements disproportionately good for Bronze and Iron. +2 Mt is a really good deal for the costs again (especially for hidden weapons, where a Bronze +1 doubles its Mt). Conversely, shelling out 2000 and 4000 to improve the other weapons is big rip-off. To even make this remotely worth it in a no-grind run, Steel would have to be maybe 1500 and Silver, 2500. But I think the better change would be to keep the pricing, but tailor the boosts to the grade of weapon. Drop the Mt improvements of Bronze and Iron to +1 per rank, but add a but more +Hit or even +Crit (for Iron). Then Steel could be +2 Mt and a more nominal Hit boost, then Silver is +3 Mt per rank with basically no Hit boosts (encouraging the PP nature of the weapons). Special weapons could either have their own system or run using the current static chart, since forging them at all without grinding Museum is kind of iffy (since the limited quantity means it might just be better to distribute the +0 versions to every unit who wants to use them).

While the new system is mostly good, it does have a few problems. In addition to what OP mentioned, I'll add:

-Weapon experience takes too long to earn and base E-rank skill on new weapon types makes using high ranked weapons a slog.

-Bronze weapons shouldn't exist and/or make promoted classes have a minimum D-rank in weapons.

But, but, my +10 Dodge (seriously, almost everyone in my Conquest army carried one around to prevent enemy listed crit)! I agree that the WEXP is a problem, though. I feel like they didn't put enough thought into balancing the lower half, whereas C->B->A->S seem about right. E should only take something like 10 swings to progress to D and then 20-25 from there to get to C (I debated whether or not it should just be easy to get out of E, but Steel really doesn't need more incentives to not be used). The weapons should be easy to become adept in, but stay very difficult to master.

Edited by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

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