Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Rezzy

A Modest Conquests Rewrite Proposal (Spoilers)

Recommended Posts

As many people have stated, Fates in general has had weak writing overall, with a plurality of the ire directed at Conquests. I've had my complaints as well, but I figured I'd offer a solution, rather than just retread old ground. Without further ado, my changes... (Note, I'll use female Corrin in this case, because that's what's on the box.)

My first change would be right at the branch of fates. I think the story would be better served by Nohr outright conquering Hoshido right at the beginning. Really, after assassinating the queen, why does Nohr's army just leave? This is never really addressed very well. It would have been the perfect time to strike, since the army was temporarily leaderless. It also fits the traditional Fire Emblem story of one nation invading another, but this time, we see it from the other side. It also helps remove the gripe many people have where Corrin is bringing peace by invading a peaceful nation. In this scenario, the deed is already done, and Corrin tries to help change Nohr from the inside, like they advertised.

The reason could also be painted as more gray. Garon could paint it as conquering Hoshido for their resources to feed their starving masses. At least that way, it would make more sense to Xander and others to follow. Even if Garon is an omnicidal slime monster, he could at least pretend not to be.

Ryoma and the other royal siblings escape at this point, and begin to build their resistance force. There could be a map or two where you mop up the remaining Hoshido soldiers and some much needed world building. They could comment on how merciful Corrin is, taking prisoners before Hans gets to them. One of these prisoners early on could be Azura, abandoned by the Hoshidans after the invasion. She could get a special release, being a former Nohr princess and all.

Azura can let Corrin know Garon's slime nature, and this can be a plot point that is the driving force going forward.

At this point, Corrin can confide in Leo about her misgivings and Leo can give her his prep speech about appearing to be evil. Now, Corrin has been given a command, maybe a base. Now Corrin can use this chance to change things from the inside. Think Oskar Schindler during World War 2. Corrin gathers prisoners and puts them to work in her base. Outwardly, she can say they are her slaves, and they are digging ore and working the fields for the good of Nohr back home, but in reality, she's keeping them safe from the likes of Garon and Hans.

Slavery is a terrible thing, but we're supposed to be dealing with gray morality here.

Once we're past the initial phase of the game, we can move onto the next stage. Corrin has made a very efficient base of slave labor and has been appointed ambassador to the neutral countries for a PR campaign, basically to keep them from aiding the Hoshidan resistance. She could visit the Wind/Fire Tribes, Nestra, Izana, etc. One scenario could be visiting with the leaders, then getting attacked by the Hoshidan resistance, led by Takumi and Hinoka. Corrin uses this to say "We came in peace, and now these barbarians are attacking both of us, putting your leaders in danger!" Izana's map could be doing some favor for him to get a magic orb to reveal Garon's true nature. Each map could have some different fluff to it, but that's the basic idea of this arc. Also, around here, Hinoka is taken captive. It's okay for a boss to escape occasionally, but it's silly to happen every time.

Garon of course, continues to commit atrocities. Your base continues to collect slave labor and be highly efficient, but Corrin does her best to keep her prisoners alive. Hinoka is now her prisoner, and she confides her plans in her.

Around this time, Azura has gathered her magic reagents and shows Corrin and Leo slime Garon. Elise and Camilla join in, because they trust Corrin, but Xander is not let in on the plan yet, since he's too loyal to Garon still.

Now, Iago comes snooping around our castle and sees our evilness quota isn't high enough, but we kill him right here and now, making sure to hide his body.

The next arc of the game is eliminating the Hoshido resistance, capturing Sakura. Takumi goes down fighting, refusing to let himself be taken prisoner. Following this victory, Garon orders the death of Sakura. Hans takes her away, with Corrin powerless to help her. This is the point where Xander is ready to believe the slime allegations of his father and joins Corrin.

At this point it's civil war, unfortunately, before Corrin can move her army into the open, Ryoma attacks, blaming Corrin for Sakura's death "She trusted you, and you let her die!". After defeating Ryoma, he believes you and forgives you. At this time, Garon's forces attack. His cover has been blown after losing Xander's support, and he's ready to kill Corrin. Ryoma takes a fatal blow, protecting Corrin.

Now, we simply have a map or two where we take out Hans and the few elite soldiers loyal to Slime Garon before defeating the Slime King.

We can now have our happy ending with Queen Hinoka and King Xander forging a peace to last the ages.

tl;dr Make Corrin resist from the inside by trying to take prisoners and run a Schindler castle.

The Castle could be integrated into the My Castle feature.

I don't think my proposal is perfect, but I feel this would be an improvement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We do have a fanfic thread, just so you know; I think these types of post should go there so we have one thread dedicated to writing and critiquing.

Also, one quick question: for what purpose did you keep Garon as a slime?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a LOT of different ways Conquest could be rewritten. Have you tried writing out all the small details, rather than the outline?

(not being sarcastic, genuine question, because it would be interesting to see just how many ways Conquest could've gone)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We do have a fanfic thread, just so you know; I think these types of post should go there so we have one thread dedicated to writing and critiquing.

Also, one quick question: for what purpose did you keep Garon as a slime?

It could be moved there, but I didn't think it qualified as fan fic so much, since it was more of an outline of story changes, rather than a narrative.

I kept Garon slime, since I didn't see a compelling reason to change it from the original, and him being Anankos' pawn is the same in Birthright and Revelations, even if he doesn't go slime form there.

There's a LOT of different ways Conquest could be rewritten. Have you tried writing out all the small details, rather than the outline?

(not being sarcastic, genuine question, because it would be interesting to see just how many ways Conquest could've gone)

I could definitely go into more detail, but I figured my post was long enough as is.

My hacking skills are zero, otherwise I could try to work on an actual script and changes to the game itself, but it seems a waste to go into that much detail if the discussion is purely academic.

I would also give my outline a second draft and more polish if I was to try to pass it off as a true fanfic. I'm not much of a fanficcer, but when I do try to write an original story, I try to hold myself to a higher standard of writing, so I was more looking for discussion on the ideas, rather than the caliber of the writing itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It could be moved there, but I didn't think it qualified as fan fic so much, since it was more of an outline of story changes, rather than a narrative.

I kept Garon slime, since I didn't see a compelling reason to change it from the original, and him being Anankos' pawn is the same in Birthright and Revelations, even if he doesn't go slime form there.

People rewrite things there all the time, that's the point of the thread. I think it's better to have one thread dedicated to stuff like this rather than far too many. I feel like we get a new pairing thread every other day.

Fair enough. In my opinion though, Garon being a slime is just used as an excuse in the plot to justify all manner of nonsense, and him not being in control of his own actions weakens the entire narrative as a whole. If I were to rewrite the game, that's definitely something I'd change, but if you don't want to, that's your call, obviously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have added

Garon cannot be truly killed unless he sits on the Hoshidan throne

That plot device of a crystal could only be used in that world/only decendants of a certain dragon can see in it

Hans acts the way he does so he can receive dragon's blood

Iago has dragon's blood and the power has driven him insane

And maybe the game should have shown more events of what was happening before the avatar was born.

Like maybe showing Garon slowly change his ways while becoming more possessed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People rewrite things there all the time, that's the point of the thread. I think it's better to have one thread dedicated to stuff like this rather than far too many. I feel like we get a new pairing thread every other day.

Fair enough. In my opinion though, Garon being a slime is just used as an excuse in the plot to justify all manner of nonsense, and him not being in control of his own actions weakens the entire narrative as a whole. If I were to rewrite the game, that's definitely something I'd change, but if you don't want to, that's your call, obviously.

Yeah, I could see changing Garon to be human. I thought about including my rewrite ideas for Birthright and Revelations, but Conquests alone was getting too long and didn't want to lose people's attention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Changing Garon is not so much as a necessity, though, I would have preferred him as human. I would have preferred that he had a core personality, then have Anankos' influence gradually distorting that personality with traits that do not fit. And show it during the story. His children would have more of a reason to be reluctant to actually side against him; he is their father, he is still the same man but he has had some moments, if my point makes sense.

The problem with Garon and the royal siblings staying with him is that it is obvious that something is wrong with Garon. Majorly wrong. His own children are afraid of him; he would kill his own children. Yet, Xander stays. He stays because he remembers a time when his father was not the man he is today (and he is the first prince). The problem is that we don't know how the man Garon was back in the day; we only know heresy through a biased vessel.

It really shows how stupid the royal siblings are, honestly.

Edited by SaiSymbolic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with Garon and the royal siblings staying with him is that it is obvious that something is wrong with Garon. Majorly wrong. His own children are afraid of him; he would kill his own children. Yet, Xander stays. He stays because he remembers a time when his father was not the man he is today (and he is the first prince). The problem is that we don't know how the man Garon was back in the day; we only know heresy through a biased vessel.

Unless I'm missing some info, I'm pretty sure Xander is the only one that remembers Garon being nice. Camilla doesn't mention any fond memories of him and Leo only talks about him being a womanizer. But from the supports, Garon to me seems like he was never actually that nice. He had numerous concubines and didn't do anything to stop them from fighting each other, or to protect his children. I'm pretty sure Xander got special treatment because he was the Queen's son, and that's why he was "spoiled" by Garon.

Another reason why it bothers me that the rest of them hesitate to disobey Garon/attack Slime Garon. I like the way the OP rewrote the whole situation because, for me, it always seemed like Xander was the main reason nobody acted, but the way the story is, that isn't acknowledged.

Edited by Book Bro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless I'm missing some info, I'm pretty sure Xander is the only one that remembers Garon being nice. Camilla doesn't mention any fond memories of him and Leo only talks about him being a womanizer. But from the supports, Garon to me seems like he was never actually that nice. He had numerous concubines and didn't do anything to stop them from fighting each other, or to protect his children. I'm pretty sure Xander got special treatment because he was the Queen's son, and that's why he was "spoiled" by Garon.

Another reason why it bothers me that the rest of them hesitate to disobey Garon/attack Slime Garon. I like the way the OP rewrote the whole situation because, for me, it always seemed like Xander was the main reason nobody acted, but the way the story is, that isn't acknowledged.

Thanks, in the canon story, I don't know when Garon actually becomes a slime monster. I'd imagine that it was after Elise was conceived, but before kidnapping Corrin. If it was before Elise was conceived that brings up the horror that Elise's father is a slime monster. I'm thinking it was a gradual process with the monster latching onto the worst parts of Garon before taking him over totally. Human Garon was probably a harsh guy, but with still a shred of humanity, but our only sources are biased, so we'll probably never know. I imagine it was like the monster that latched onto Takumi's Emo-ness and took him over.

I'm not sure if slime Garon still keeps concubines. We never see any current ones or even mention of them. It seems being a giant slime monster has its draw backs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, in the canon story, I don't know when Garon actually becomes a slime monster. I'd imagine that it was after Elise was conceived, but before kidnapping Corrin. If it was before Elise was conceived that brings up the horror that Elise's father is a slime monster. I'm thinking it was a gradual process with the monster latching onto the worst parts of Garon before taking him over totally. Human Garon was probably a harsh guy, but with still a shred of humanity, but our only sources are biased, so we'll probably never know. I imagine it was like the monster that latched onto Takumi's Emo-ness and took him over.

I'm not sure if slime Garon still keeps concubines. We never see any current ones or even mention of them. It seems being a giant slime monster has its draw backs.

From what I remember, Garon was actually killed by Anankos and than his body was revived as a slime monster. I don't think the process was gradual. Garon died, and then his body was turned into a slime monster that thought it was Garon. As for how long ago that happen in the game, it was probably before Corrin was kidnapped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I remember, Garon was actually killed by Anankos and than his body was revived as a slime monster. I don't think the process was gradual. Garon died, and then his body was turned into a slime monster that thought it was Garon. As for how long ago that happen in the game, it was probably before Corrin was kidnapped.

I must have missed that part. Was that in DLC?

They could have included that little tidbit in Revelations, heck knows it could have used a bit more story development once we got to Valla.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must have missed that part. Was that in DLC?

They could have included that little tidbit in Revelations, heck knows it could have used a bit more story development once we got to Valla.

The only DLC that furthered the story was Hidden Truths, which didn't involve Garon at all, so it's in Revelations. Judging by the fact that in that route, Anankos revived Sumeragi and Mikoto as his minions without turning them into slime monsters, and they were basically just corrupted versions of themselves, I think Garon was killed to give Anakos a fully controllable puppet, as he basically exploited the Hoshidian royals' personality, EX. He turned Mikoto's love for her family up to yandere, prompting her to try to kill them so they could be together in death as Anankos's minions.

To me that implies he didn't have total control over them, and that they were acting on their own warped motives, which happened to coincide with his. Hence he killed Garon to have a minion he had full control over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only DLC that furthered the story was Hidden Truths, which didn't involve Garon at all, so it's in Revelations. Judging by the fact that in that route, Anankos revived Sumeragi and Mikoto as his minions without turning them into slime monsters, and they were basically just corrupted versions of themselves, I think Garon was killed to give Anakos a fully controllable puppet, as he basically exploited the Hoshidian royals' personality, EX. He turned Mikoto's love for her family up to yandere, prompting her to try to kill them so they could be together in death as Anankos's minions.

To me that implies he didn't have total control over them, and that they were acting on their own warped motives, which happened to coincide with his. Hence he killed Garon to have a minion he had full control over.

Okay, I must have just missed that. The only thing I remember about Garon in Rev, is that he was summoned by Anankos, just to be eaten 5 seconds later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice ideas OP, but if Hoshido is conquered so early, I think you will need more stuff going on in the story besides Hoshido's occupation. I know you mentioned the neutral territories but that could use some expansion. Also, if there is going to be a civil war, it should get it's own arc and not just be a few missions. Maybe Ryoma's sacrifice would happen around the end of the story in a joint effort to finally defeat Garon.

I would have added
Garon cannot be truly killed unless he sits on the Hoshidan throne
That plot device of a crystal could only be used in that world/only decendants of a certain dragon can see in it
Hans acts the way he does so he can receive dragon's blood
Iago has dragon's blood and the power has driven him insane
And maybe the game should have shown more events of what was happening before the avatar was born.
Like maybe showing Garon slowly change his ways while becoming more possessed

I like these ideas. Iago and Hans could use some actual motives and it would be interesting if using dragon blood as a normal human would drive you insane.

Changing Garon is not so much as a necessity, though, I would have preferred him as human. I would have preferred that he had a core personality, then have Anankos' influence gradually distorting that personality with traits that do not fit. And show it during the story. His children would have more of a reason to be reluctant to actually side against him; he is their father, he is still the same man but he has had some moments, if my point makes sense.

The problem with Garon and the royal siblings staying with him is that it is obvious that something is wrong with Garon. Majorly wrong. His own children are afraid of him; he would kill his own children. Yet, Xander stays. He stays because he remembers a time when his father was not the man he is today (and he is the first prince). The problem is that we don't know how the man Garon was back in the day; we only know heresy through a biased vessel.

It really shows how stupid the royal siblings are, honestly.

I agree completely with this. Garon being too brutal to let live but still a human is a goldmine of legitimate drama for his children (and for Kamui who has to convince them to overthrow him). If the corruption were gradual and subtle, it would be easy to see how Xander and friends would defend or at least not be immediately swayed to take action against Garon. Even the players might be swayed into thinking Garon is reasonable until he starts to go over the edge. Garon being Slime Time contributes nothing to the story and actually undermines the drama because there is no reason to feel bad about killing a monster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Garon being Slime Time contributes nothing to the story and actually undermines the drama because there is no reason to feel bad about killing a monster.

Which, may I add, is the entire reason he's a slime monster to begin with. Xander was fine with invading Hoshido until that was revealed, so they were in desperate need of something that justified killing him, even though his personality remained consistent from the first to the last chapter.

It's an excuse, nothing more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My first change would be right at the branch of fates. I think the story would be better served by Nohr outright conquering Hoshido right at the beginning. Really, after assassinating the queen, why does Nohr's army just leave?
Remember, it wasn't actually Norh's army that attacked the capital and killed the queen, but Valla troops. Norh's army would have no idea about that operation at the time. They were advancing there to rescue Corrin even if they planned to invade eventually.
This is never really addressed very well. It would have been the perfect time to strike, since the army was temporarily leaderless. It also fits the traditional Fire Emblem story of one nation invading another, but this time, we see it from the other side. It also helps remove the gripe many people have where Corrin is bringing peace by invading a peaceful nation. In this scenario, the deed is already done, and Corrin tries to help change Nohr from the inside, like they advertised.

The reason could also be painted as more gray. Garon could paint it as conquering Hoshido for their resources to feed their starving masses. At least that way, it would make more sense to Xander and others to follow. Even if Garon is an omnicidal slime monster, he could at least pretend not to be.

Also, you say that this is a "modest" rewrite, but this seems to be basically a complete rewrite.

Edited by NeonZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, you say that this is a "modest" rewrite, but this seems to be basically a complete rewrite.

I think she was making a reference to "A Modest Proposal" by Johnathan Swift.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice ideas OP, but if Hoshido is conquered so early, I think you will need more stuff going on in the story besides Hoshido's occupation. I know you mentioned the neutral territories but that could use some expansion. Also, if there is going to be a civil war, it should get it's own arc and not just be a few missions. Maybe Ryoma's sacrifice would happen around the end of the story in a joint effort to finally defeat Garon.

I like these ideas. Iago and Hans could use some actual motives and it would be interesting if using dragon blood as a normal human would drive you insane.

I agree completely with this. Garon being too brutal to let live but still a human is a goldmine of legitimate drama for his children (and for Kamui who has to convince them to overthrow him). If the corruption were gradual and subtle, it would be easy to see how Xander and friends would defend or at least not be immediately swayed to take action against Garon. Even the players might be swayed into thinking Garon is reasonable until he starts to go over the edge. Garon being Slime Time contributes nothing to the story and actually undermines the drama because there is no reason to feel bad about killing a monster.

Maybe if I had the tools available, I could do a map by map rewrite of the Conquests story. We have 22 maps to work with, maybe...

7-8 mop up remaining army in Hoshido

9-11 setting up the base/castle

12-17 PR tour

18-22 Crushing Hoshido Resistance

23-Endgame Civil War and Final Battle with Garon

Subject to change, of course.

Which, may I add, is the entire reason he's a slime monster to begin with. Xander was fine with invading Hoshido until that was revealed, so they were in desperate need of something that justified killing him, even though his personality remained consistent from the first to the last chapter.

It's an excuse, nothing more.

Even if he did turn out to be a slime monster, he could have played the part of Garon better. He could have tried to paint his reasons for invading Hoshido as needing their resources and not use "Kill Everybody" as a punctuation mark.

Remember, it wasn't actually Norh's army that attacked the capital and killed the queen, but Valla troops. Norh's army would have no idea about that operation at the time. They were advancing there to rescue Corrin even if they planned to invade eventually.

Also, you say that this is a "modest" rewrite, but this seems to be basically a complete rewrite.

True, but Garon was coordinating the attack and since he commands the Nohr army, it seems odd to send the entire army for a rescue operation.

I think she was making a reference to "A Modest Proposal" by Johnathan Swift.

Bingo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm I will be a bit biased in this as I have only played conquest but have been super spoiled in regards to the other routes.

The only DLC that furthered the story was Hidden Truths, which didn't involve Garon at all, so it's in Revelations. Judging by the fact that in that route, Anankos revived Sumeragi and Mikoto as his minions without turning them into slime monsters, and they were basically just corrupted versions of themselves, I think Garon was killed to give Anakos a fully controllable puppet, as he basically exploited the Hoshidian royals' personality, EX. He turned Mikoto's love for her family up to yandere, prompting her to try to kill them so they could be together in death as Anankos's minions.

To me that implies he didn't have total control over them, and that they were acting on their own warped motives, which happened to coincide with his. Hence he killed Garon to have a minion he had full control over.

Also don't forget that Garon mentions he wants to prepare Corrin to be a worthy offering to Garon. As Anankos can only take people whose emotions are in turmoil It seems likely his orders for Garon was to Possess Corrin, a direct descendant of himself. The real question is why did he need to posses otehrs to interact with the world?

The rainbow sage mentions that "higher beings can't stay in a a lower realm for long periods of time becuse they will eventually go insane.

For me these two points are the main drive for a potential theory to reconstruct what IS might have been thinking of doing or at least a (more) coherent variation of the same story.

The one possibility that might explain this is that Anakos might have had his real body be crippled forcing him to find a new suitable vessel.

We know Anankos had taken precautions (i.e. the awakening trio) for the case of going insane and the original inhabitants of Valla were effectively all killed. But the details are missing. Perhaps in that event Anankos suffered from something, or at the very least he is slowly dying. (sadly I have no more input that I can give here... we know nothing)

In this case many of his actions that seem completely random might make sense, Anankos while insane, would still want to preserve its life.

Garon the "empty vessel" could have been a attempt by Anankos to claim a body that could hold his true form. The hint for this is the transformation Garon takes in Birthright leads me to speculate that he had wanted a body, Garon was an early attempt that was unstable, however it was usable in case of an emergency, which could explain the monstrous dragon Garon becomes. In this scenario that transformation was the imperfect form resulting from Anankos directly taking control of Garon likely as a final measure for his plans going astray.

In all of the routes the actions of Anankos could be explained as trying to make Corrin reach a breaking point, where Anankos could overpower them and claim a body of a direct first generation descendant.

A further scary thought for an attempt at redeeming the story is what if some of the attention the various characters give to Corrin could very well have been affected by an outside influence, i.e. Anankos's eventual plan for them. It only requires the logical jump from him being able to slowly influence those who are under mental stress to a larger more subtle yet intrusive way...

Sadly this only goes as far as speculation fates plot is too disjointed for much more and other interpretations are equally likely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...