OrangeCrush980 Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 If you want to assume a certain game, use Fates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 (edited) I'd actually consider it debatable in Fates, given that the AI has a tendency to outright ignore units they can't damage. EDIT: Though honestly, the higher Hp sounds more appealing to me. Edited May 8, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 But do you have 0 res? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 I'd go for the higher HP growth, since it's likely going to be a higher cap, and it will help you with both physical and magical attacks. It think HP was undervalued in past games, just because it was so abundant on every unit. Point for point, I think a single HP is better than a single Def, since HP is so scarce in Fates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 I'd go with more HP, because it lets you take more physical and magical attacks. A unit with low HP, high DEF, and low res will probably take no damage from physical attacks, but they're completely vulnerable to magic. I honestly prefer dodge tanks though, as it's best not to get hit at all, and even they tend to want HP more than Def or Res. Plus dodge tanks are always speedy, so they can almost always double. High speed and low def>low speed and high def. Better to take more damage once than less damage twice IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 I'd go with more HP, because it lets you take more physical and magical attacks. A unit with low HP, high DEF, and low res will probably take no damage from physical attacks, but they're completely vulnerable to magic. I honestly prefer dodge tanks though, as it's best not to get hit at all, and even they tend to want HP more than Def or Res. Plus dodge tanks are always speedy, so they can almost always double. High speed and low def>low speed and high def. Better to take more damage once than less damage twice IMO. Speed's just the god stat all around. It is offensive, since it let's you double. It is defensive, since it increases your dodge and prevents you from getting doubled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 (edited) I'll take the higher defense, and just use other characters to tank mages. It's not like Haar was considered an awful tank in RD because he was 2HKO'd by thunder sages. Also, having the defense to shrug off attacks is much better than having to rely on dodging them. Context is important, though. As Levant said, enemies in Conquest won't attack units they can't damage, and Ryoma is a character who can stack enough skills to feasibly rely on dodge-tanking. Edited May 8, 2016 by Radiant Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 In what context? If I'm up against a bunch of Poison Strike ninjas, I'll want the lower HP total. If I want to take minimal amounts of damage every turn, I'll want the higher HP total. If I'm trying to manipulate the AI, it could go either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 ^ agree with Levant and eclipse. Depends on the role of your unit. Enemies tend to ignore units they deal no damage to, and target squishier units. So if you want to rout enemies, you'll need a unit with higher hp that takes bits of dmg rather than no dmg, specially when FE is more oriented towards physical combat rather than magical. But if you face lunge poison strike/grisly wound shuriken enemies, then higher defense is better to withstand the shitload of dmg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvette Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 Assuming overall usefulness, I'd go 40 HP. 28 Defense is good in just about any FE game, barring maybe Awakening Lunatic on a slow unit. Higher HP means taking both more physical and magical attacks. In Rinkah's case in Fates, no amount of defense could redeem her atrocious HP. If we're talking exclusively a physical tank, than maybe 40 Defense. However, this is assuming their Luck isn't also trash, as whatever damage done could be tripled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 (edited) I'd go with more HP, because it lets you take more physical and magical attacks. A unit with low HP, high DEF, and low res will probably take no damage from physical attacks, but they're completely vulnerable to magic. I honestly prefer dodge tanks though, as it's best not to get hit at all, and even they tend to want HP more than Def or Res. Plus dodge tanks are always speedy, so they can almost always double. High speed and low def>low speed and high def. Better to take more damage once than less damage twice IMO. Yeah, well, speaking of that, I find dodge tanking much less reliable in Fates - even hit rates that are so low that you'd pretty much dismiss them as a certain miss seem to hit far more often than in other games. I'll take the higher defense, and just use other characters to tank mages. It's not like Haar was considered an awful tank in RD because he was 2HKO'd by thunder sages. Also, having the defense to shrug off attacks is much better than having to rely on dodging them. Context is important, though. As Levant said, enemies in Conquest won't attack units they can't damage, and Ryoma is a character who can stack enough skills to feasibly rely on dodge-tanking. Do they ignore you in Revelations if they can't damage you? Anyways, avoid stacking is a double edged sword for the same reasons - if they have no chance to hit you, they won't do squat, or will proceed to attack someone else if a hittable target is available. Assuming overall usefulness, I'd go 40 HP. 28 Defense is good in just about any FE game, barring maybe Awakening Lunatic on a slow unit. Higher HP means taking both more physical and magical attacks. In Rinkah's case in Fates, no amount of defense could redeem her atrocious HP. If we're talking exclusively a physical tank, than maybe 40 Defense. However, this is assuming their Luck isn't also trash, as whatever damage done could be tripled. A good point, I must say. Edited May 8, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 depends on their bases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 (edited) Context is important, though. As Levant said, enemies in Conquest won't attack units they can't damage, and Ryoma is a character who can stack enough skills to feasibly rely on dodge-tanking. Funny you say that, because I've watched a stream of Conquest, and I've distinctly seen Shuriken wielders attack Effie, even though they did not damage to her, just to inflict debuffs on her. Edited May 8, 2016 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Funny you say that, because I've watched a stream of Conquest, and I've distinctly seen Shuriken wielders attack Effie, even though they did not damage to her, just to inflict debuffs on her. Curious. I read in another thread that Ninjas tend to function as support for other units, so that's probably why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Do they ignore you in Revelations if they can't damage you? Anyways, avoid stacking is a double edged sword for the same reasons - if they have no chance to hit you, they won't do squat, or will proceed to attack someone else if a hittable target is available. No, this is a Conquest-exclusive feature (at least on Hard mode - I haven't had the time to try out Lunatic yet). Although, as Ninjamonkey correctly stated, Ninjas are an exception and will attack an unit they can't damage to inflict debuffs/Poison Strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 What levant says is true. Avoid or dodge bots are stupidly unreliable since FE9 or 10 iirc. Fates isn't GBA levels where you could expect Serra facetank an army on a forest/fort tile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 What levant says is true. Avoid or dodge bots are stupidly unreliable since FE9 or 10 iirc. Fates isn't GBA levels where you could expect Serra facetank an army on a forest/fort tile. I've never had a problem with dodgetanking in FE9-13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I've never had a problem with dodgetanking in FE9-13. True Hit made dodge tanking pretty viable, once you could get the majority of enemy hit percentages into the 40s or below. Fates RNG is a bit different, so a 30% chance to hit is actually 30%, making dodge tanking less viable. That, doubled with the unprecedentedly low HP which makes very few of your units able to take more than 2-3 hits, pretty much killed dodge-tanking as a legitimate strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 True Hit made dodge tanking pretty viable, once you could get the majority of enemy hit percentages into the 40s or below. Fates RNG is a bit different, so a 30% chance to hit is actually 30%, making dodge tanking less viable. That, doubled with the unprecedentedly low HP which makes very few of your units able to take more than 2-3 hits, pretty much killed dodge-tanking as a legitimate strategy. Really, that kinda sucks. Of course, the version of Fates I plan on getting is Birthright, where I could probably just grind my units until they're so much better than the opposition that the enemies have single digit hit, damage and crit. I probably won't though, because grinding is boring and I tend to keep it to a minimum. Especially when I could just be lazy and do Phoenix mode if I want there to be no difficulty at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I'd recommend Casual Mode. It still encourages good tactics, but a single lucky crit by the enemy won't cause you to reset and lose an hour of gameplay. Full disclosure, I've never played Phoenix Mode, but it sounds like it strays too far from the Fire Emblem formula. How exactly does it work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I probably will do Casual Mode. Definitely one of the best features introduced in the recent games, it's saved me a lot of time and frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 True Hit made dodge tanking pretty viable, once you could get the majority of enemy hit percentages into the 40s or below. Fates RNG is a bit different, so a 30% chance to hit is actually 30%, making dodge tanking less viable. That, doubled with the unprecedentedly low HP which makes very few of your units able to take more than 2-3 hits, pretty much killed dodge-tanking as a legitimate strategy.Is it proved to be 1 RN system? I know that it feels more different. Low hits among the 10s land quite often from my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) Is it proved to be 1 RN system? I know that it feels more different. Low hits among the 10s land quite often from my experience. not 1RN, it uses a new system Like, for hits below 50%, it uses 1RN. For hits above 50%, it uses 2RNs, but they're weighted, so the hits aren't as reliable as regular 2RN. This guys did a lot of tests on it, and explains it better than I ever could: https://fire-emblem-strategy.tumblr.com/post/143452625727/how-fates-handles-hit-rates Edited May 10, 2016 by Nobody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastor15243 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) I honestly prefer dodge tanks though, as it's best not to get hit at all, and even they tend to want HP more than Def or Res. Plus dodge tanks are always speedy, so they can almost always double. High speed and low def>low speed and high def. Better to take more damage once than less damage twice IMO. Try playing an ironman run sometime. You will never look at dodgetanks the same way again, I promise you. Edited May 10, 2016 by Alastor15243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessence Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 not 1RN, it uses a new system Like, for hits below 50%, it uses 1RN. For hits above 50%, it uses 2RNs, but they're weighted, so the hits aren't as reliable as regular 2RN. This guys did a lot of tests on it, and explains it better than I ever could: https://fire-emblem-strategy.tumblr.com/post/143452625727/how-fates-handles-hit-rates Oh nice link there, thanks! An interesting experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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